Belgian S3

JohnDuh

JohnDuh

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The other day we did a compression test on my engine (APY) with 282000km. (pic for proof :p)
The results were 175psi on all cylinders, so if the internet didn't lie this means a rather healthy engine.

The downside is we also found where my oil is going. The chargepipe (gray metal tube coming of the turbo) was full of oil. As in run your finger down the pipe and you can almost flick the oil away.

So my educated (not so actually) guess would be that the oil seal in the turbo is shot and needs replacing, which brings me to the actual questions

First the easy ones :
1. is rebuilding a turbo hard ? I've seen rebuild kits online and they are rather cheap. Also watched some youtube videos and it doesn't seem to hard, but I'd like to have the opinion of somebody who actually did a rebuild.
2. How long does a turbo rebuild take. Since this is my daily car, I would like to be reassured I can pull it off in a weekend. This includes getting the turbo out of the car and reinstalling it.
3. Is there any other job I should do "while i'm in there anyway" ? I've seen the flexible part of the downpipe is frayed, so I probably should replace that, right ?

Now the harder ones :
Since the turbo is shot, I can man-math myself in an upgrade. For the moment the car is bone stock, so we have a blank slate here.
I should also state that I would prefer not to open the engine, which means limiting myself to 275hp to keep the rods happy.
Also my previous car was a Ford ST (diesel 185hp) which I really enjoyed due to it's unbelievable handling. So I would rather get the S3 to handle instead of throwing a lot of money at making it go fast in a straight line.

4. Do I need another turbo to get to 275hp. The internet seems to think I don't, what do you guys think
5. I've read a bit about ball bearing turbos. Are these worth it, i.e. with my performance goals in mind will I feel a difference in spool time, or will this be negligible ?
6. Are there any upgraded turbo's that are bolt on? (I don't have access to a welding shop, so can't make my own DP) I've read a bit about hybrid K04 turbo's, which seem to be aimed at more hp, which in my case is not (yet) the goal.

Thanks for reading this long post and thanks in advance for educating me :)
 

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3. Is there any other job I should do "while i'm in there anyway" ? I've seen the flexible part of the downpipe is frayed, so I probably should replace that, right ?

you cant really replace the flexi-pipe, there are weld on kits but it is virtually impossible to reach and all that rusty junk would need to go somewhere and stop at the 400 cell CATs, instead you should change the downpipe and then the CAT as the standard has twin CATs.

I actually looked at turbo service kits but mine was cracked on the hot side so didn't bother also you need to mark the actuator and I expect that is rusty and seized too.

Pretty sure K04 is good to over 260HP with supporting mods, but as you suggested you are close to ending the engine along with driveshafts and clutch, if you put your foot down at 3K too often.
 
Ok, comming back to this one. I'm still debating what to do with it. (while burning oil :-/)

In the meantime I've bought a used turbo that was advertised as "needs revision". It was cheap so I went for it. Unfortunately the compressor housing has cracked between wastegate and compressor wheel. So that needs changing, upping the price.
This made me think, do I really want to put more money in a turbo that will probably crack again further down the road or does it make sense to change it out for one that has an external wastegate. Am I opening a can of worms here, or am I making sense ?

The "while I'm there" list has also grown
1. As mentionned earlier, the downpipe has seen better days, so I looked around and found this :
http://www.turbo-parts.de/Auspuffan...::1756.html?MODsid=qojgkdanljur4n1ifrjt1uumh4
Anybody got some experience with these guys ?

2. Since I'll probably have to drop the subframe to get access, I might as well change the suspension and ARB bushings. The plan is to go with factory bushings since this is my daily that sees a lot of highway cruising (but still needs to be fun in the corners once I get off the highway)
Are there any bushings out there that will do a better job, yet still retain a factory-like NVH level ?

3. This might be a bit over the top, but lately I'm considering changing the rods. Any good reading material out there you can point me at ? Does this really include getting the engine out, or can I do this with "just" taking the head and sump off ? (I don't have a workshop at my disposal)
 
JohnDuh said:
Ok, comming back to this one. I'm still debating what to do with it. (while burning oil :-/)

In the meantime I've bought a used turbo that was advertised as "needs revision". It was cheap so I went for it. Unfortunately the compressor housing has cracked between wastegate and compressor wheel. So that needs changing, upping the price.
This made me think, do I really want to put more money in a turbo that will probably crack again further down the road or does it make sense to change it out for one that has an external wastegate. Am I opening a can of worms here, or am I making sense ?

The "while I'm there" list has also grown
1. As mentionned earlier, the downpipe has seen better days, so I looked around and found this :
http://www.turbo-parts.de/Auspuffan...::1756.html?MODsid=qojgkdanljur4n1ifrjt1uumh4
Anybody got some experience with these guys ?

2. Since I'll probably have to drop the subframe to get access, I might as well change the suspension and ARB bushings. The plan is to go with factory bushings since this is my daily that sees a lot of highway cruising (but still needs to be fun in the corners once I get off the highway)
Are there any bushings out there that will do a better job, yet still retain a factory-like NVH level ?

3. This might be a bit over the top, but lately I'm considering changing the rods. Any good reading material out there you can point me at ? Does this really include getting the engine out, or can I do this with "just" taking the head and sump off ? (I don't have a workshop at my disposal)
Click to expand...

When I installed rods, we pulled out the whole motor and changed all accessories and rebuilt the motor as well. If your compression is good you don't need to (mine was and I still did, wanted to be sure I guess). I'd change the water/oil pumps and it goes without saying bearings, at the very least.

As for bushings, there is the standard Powerflex option, as well as a new-to-me brand called Strongflex, also based in the UK. Here's a link to the kit I will be purchasing for myself very shortly: http://www.strongflex.eu/en/24-audi-s3-99-03

Don't get the harder compound. Softer one works just fine and is most likely what you want. Go for a proven well-rated combo for suspension. Check threads here, there are some with plenty of pics to help you decide what you need. I recently ordered B12's for my car.

Downpipe seems ok, I have a Relentless myself (which just cracked today). But it has been holding up to abuse for over 3 years, so maybe it had to happen.
 
You can change rods with the engine in and just removing head/sump

<tuffty/>
 
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There is an online series of videos that can take you step by step through a rebuild with rods and Pistons.
The user is now charging for parts 2-5 but it's probably worth it for any novice.

Regardless of power, it is probably just as economical purchasing a hybrid turbo as it is a genuine OEM one, probably cheaper, so I would 100% do that. Then you have that nice little option to exploit its potential, which you don't have to initially.

Downpipe is an obvious upgrade and investment too as it should last you a good while.

Before any of this have you taken the TIP off the turbo to check it for any play at all??
 
superkarl said:
There is an online series of videos that can take you step by step through a rebuild with rods and Pistons.
The user is now charging for parts 2-5 but it's probably worth it for any novice.

Regardless of power, it is probably just as economical purchasing a hybrid turbo as it is a genuine OEM one, probably cheaper, so I would 100% do that. Then you have that nice little option to exploit its potential, which you don't have to initially.

Downpipe is an obvious upgrade and investment too as it should last you a good while.

Before any of this have you taken the TIP off the turbo to check it for any play at all??
Click to expand...

The downpipe is definately needed, I'm now trying to find out where to get a good one.

Didn't look at the TIP yet (have been away from my garage for a while now)
I did get the service history from the car. Apparently the turbo has been replaced 40k km ago in an audi workshop. I'll check the play asap, but given the low mileage it should still be ok.
That brings me to the next question, if not the turbo, what is ******* away oil ?? (there's no leaks under the car, so I'm losing it through the tailpipe)

There might be something wrong with the PCV piping, since my idle can be a bit unsteady. I'll have a look at those hoses, but I'm having a hard time understanding if this has something to do with the oil consumption.
 
Did some more digging and took off the TIP.
Not an easy job ... guess that's the price you pay for having a rather big engine in a small car.
Anyway, got to the turbo, and here's a pic of the turbo :
IMG 20161001 155453
The shaft feels like there's some play on it, but not dramatically more than a new turbo, so I've got a feeling that's not the source of my oil consumption. Will do a rebuild anyway.

I also did some fiddling on the electric part of the car. Since I lost my cigarette lighter phone charger thingy recently I made a built in solution. Here are some pics.
IMG 20161023 092655 IMG 20161023 113125 IMG 20161023 114654

Maybe I should rename this thread since it's evolving in a 'my car' thread. Can this be done ?
 
OK .. this might sound silly, but is it possible the aircon won't come on when it's too cold ?

We've had temps around freezing and I noticed the aircon would not come on, or at least it would shut off half a second after pressing the button. Is that a known thing, or should I look into this?

Before you ask, no I wasn't too hot, I wanted to use the aircon to get rid of the fogged up windshield.
 
Well that explains it ;-)

Thanks <tuffty/>

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk
 
I think the air does come on at lower temps, but only on the clear screen button.
 
Tested today and it doesn't want to. Not even on defog mode... Oh well, I'm already happy it's not a problem that needs solving :)

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk
 
Ok, next question.

Since the beginning I've had a bit of an oil consumption / leak going on.
I finally managed to get the car up on supports so I could have a good rummage under the engine (I really need to get myself a bigger garage)
The engine / suspension was really oily on the right hand side (front of the engine if it were mounted properly in the car)

My main suspect now is the front crank seal. Is it likely to go (the car has 300.000km)
If so, googing a bit told me it's a real PITA to change. Is there a shortcut or easier remedy ?

Is there an other likely candidate for the oil leak in this region?

Something else I noticed while being under the car, the oil drain bolt uses 2 stainless steel washers. Is this normal ? In my experience (with Toyota's) this was a single copper washer.
 
audi upgrades
"Something else I noticed while being under the car, the oil drain bolt uses 2 stainless steel washers. Is this normal ? In my experience (with Toyota's) this was a single copper washer."

I need an additional washer on mine, I think when the sump threads get a bit poor people add another washer on, as the sump plug has about an 5mm smooth bit near the bolt head and if like mine it doesn't fully torque but instead turns back out. but the washer is stainless not copper. I ended up with messy sealant to stop the oil leaking.
 
Ok, next set of questions.

1. Oil leak
How much of a hassle is it to replace the front crank seal. Anybody with some first hand experience ? What needs to be removed to get at it ?

2. APY engine upgrading
I've read that the APY is a narrowband without EGT, which limits it's tunebility. Is there a way to upgrade to a wideband ECU ? Let me rephrase this, what's the easiest way to upgrade to a wideband ECU. I should also mention that I need to keep it "stock" for the MOT, so I'm looking at digging into the VAG parts bin.

3. Chassis bracing.
Compared to my previous car (2015 Ford Focus ST) the chassis of the S3 feels floppy. I've been looking high and low to find some transmission tunnel bracing to stiffen the car, but failed so far. Anybody know a company who sells these.
Is there some other bracing I can get for the car, apart from the obvious suspension tower braces and subframe brace ?
 
Hi ,

I'm Also a belgium S3 owner and had a focus st mk3 before my S3 also ! I owning the car for almost thee years now and coming from the st the chasis sucks indeed !

Last year decided to replace all bushings , topmounts and replaced the old dampers with a bilstein coilover set !

Also had new allignement and all this together transformed my car in a very nice way !

My car has done 246000 km but Anyway on a 10-16 year old car the most bushes Will be shut Anyway !
 
JohnDuh said:
1. Oil leak
How much of a hassle is it to replace the front crank seal. Anybody with some first hand experience ? What needs to be removed to get at it ?
Click to expand...

You will need to remove the crank damper pulley and then the crank cambelt pulley... you will need to replace the crank bolt too

http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a3...el/renewing_crankshaft_oil_seal_(pulley_end)/

JohnDuh said:
2. APY engine upgrading
I've read that the APY is a narrowband without EGT, which limits it's tunebility. Is there a way to upgrade to a wideband ECU ? Let me rephrase this, what's the easiest way to upgrade to a wideband ECU. I should also mention that I need to keep it "stock" for the MOT, so I'm looking at digging into the VAG parts bin.
Click to expand...

Simple answer is yes... Bill does wideband conversions all the time... there is some additional wiring involved especially if you want the full wideband ECU experience plus you will either need to immo defeat the wideband ECU to run on your existing APY clocks or get a facelift cluster and recode accordingly..

You will need an EGT probe... this normally sits in the hotside of a K04 but APY won't have the boss so you will either need to find a doner hotside from a later car or get a boss welded in the downpipe near the flange... this would also require the EGT thresholds dropping accordingly in the mapping as its set at 925deg for hotside so will need dropping to around 100deg less if in the downpipe for the EGT strategies to work.

VVT is something else the wideband maps will be expecting to see and is used to help spool...

Obviously you will need to replace the current pre cat lambda for wideband one... you will need to leave/add a narrow band post cat sensor but can be 'coded out' for CAT related fault codes if you decat

You would also need to use an AMK/BAM file in the ECU and either code out VVT

I don't know the details of the wiring myself as its not something I have done personally...

JohnDuh said:
3. Chassis bracing.
Compared to my previous car (2015 Ford Focus ST) the chassis of the S3 feels floppy. I've been looking high and low to find some transmission tunnel bracing to stiffen the car, but failed so far. Anybody know a company who sells these.
Is there some other bracing I can get for the car, apart from the obvious suspension tower braces and subframe brace ?
Click to expand...

Later S3's came with a strut brace... very early S3's didn't so a factory brace would be the first call... later S3's had larger bushes in the front of the front arms... cookbot inserts are a decent way to use a stiffer bush up front... TT type sold rear bushes (for the front arm) help with positive location too as the std S3 ones are voided

I have poly bushed all my suspension running R32 ARB's front/rear and Billy B8 dampers, H&R 25mm springs... handling feels very positive and not at all wobbly...

<tuffty/>
 
Thanks for the reply <tuffty/>

I had a look at the workshop manual and some more questions popped up.
1. It seems like this is a good time to change the timing belt. At what interval should these be changed on our cars ? Mine's been done 50.000km ago.
2. There are some special tools needed for the crank seal, do I really need those (needless to say I don't have them)


In other news, I've received some parts from Trups
IMG 20170226 113738

IMG 20170226 113845


Here's the result on the central roof console
IMG 20170226 121414


Rather chuffed with these. They're a lot brighter and make the car look younger :)
 
Last edited:
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Still on the way to a better S3 :)

With a baby on the way I thought a cloth interior isn't the most washable. So I've found myself a leather version :)
An added bonus is the front seats are heated, while mine aren't.

What is needed to install these ? I'm assuming some wiring needs to be done.

Some googling later I found this thread on mkiV. Is this install the same as on an S3 ?
Also found a thread here on audi-sport, but it seems a bit stale and the links are dead. I'll bump it anyway :)
 
You will need the wiring harness and a new heater controls unit with the heated seats switches have you got single or double din setup? I got mine unit from A site in Sweden for a 3rd of what they were going for on eBay uk/Germany. I'm not sure if kufatec do the harness but could easily be got off eBay from a car being parted out
 
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Single din here, so there's blank switches available.

Is there a way to update the heater control panel to integrate the switches. I kinda have other plans for the blank switches.

Sent from planet Procrastination
 
maybe just fit the the facelift aircon unit. Or a full facelift conversion maybe. You might have to get a harnes from a pre facelift car as they maybe different as the controls in facelift are built into aircon unit
 
Ok, seats are on the way to me. Now looking for the controls. Hope Audi still has them, otherwise it'll be ebay :)

Does anybody know if the doors of an S3 are the same as a normal A3 ? By doors I mean the metal. Mine are well rusted at the bottom, so I'm thinking it might be easier and cheaper to source some replacement panels than to have these repaired for the third (yes, third) time.
 
JohnDuh said:
Ok, seats are on the way to me. Now looking for the controls. Hope Audi still has them, otherwise it'll be ebay :)

Does anybody know if the doors of an S3 are the same as a normal A3 ? By doors I mean the metal. Mine are well rusted at the bottom, so I'm thinking it might be easier and cheaper to source some replacement panels than to have these repaired for the third (yes, third) time.
Click to expand...
They are identical apart from two things...

They don't have have the little tabs that the side blades slide horizontal onto.

And

They don't have the inner holes for the middle two securing screws for the blades.

I only know this as I brought two mint A3 doors (still got them in the garage for over a year now) for my respray last year
So ended up buying another set of S3 doors.

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
 
Damn ... i'll be on the lookout for S3 doors then.

In other news, this happened yesterday :
IMG 20170314 175732
 
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audi upgrades
Went and got myself a new (to me) leather interior yesterday.
Installed the rear bench in a jiffy. Some useful information in this video for those scratching their head about the side attachments :


I'm now on the lookout for some parts for the heated front seats, while the seats themselves are drying in my living room (they were in a car outside in a forest for a long time)
Parts needed :
- plastic parts to control the seat inclination on the driver side (left seat) : not a clue where to find
- controls : ebay, ordered
- wiring : kufatec : ordered

In other news, I changed the oil and while i was under the car spotted this :
IMG 20170318 155139


The trailing arm hats, for lack of better words are well corroded. Anybody know if they can be had separately ? So far I've only managed to dig up this part number 1J0505228c, which is for the assembly.
 
Today the car stumbled, had a very rough idle and basically didn't have any boost control nor power.
The last couple of days I also noted that the car had a remarkably loud wastegate tuner sound (which used to be only barely audible when under full load) and sounded for lack of better word flattulent. Now it's at a level where I'm ashamed to drive it.
Managed to limp home and had a poke around under the hood.

My prime suspect is the dv valve. I removed it and when I blow on the pressure side air comes out of the vacuum side. This seems a bit odd to me.
Am I right in thinking this causes my problems?

Sent from a green cloud on planet Procrastination
 
JohnDuh said:
My prime suspect is the dv valve. I removed it and when I blow on the pressure side air comes out of the vacuum side. This seems a bit odd to me.
Am I right in thinking this causes my problems?
Click to expand...
DV has split by the sounds... needs replacing

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
DV has split by the sounds... needs replacing

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Thanks for confirming that <tuffty/>
New parts will be ordered this week.

Sent from a green cloud on planet Procrastination
 
Damn... Replaced DV, still same problem.
Some new info though, it ran fine when cold. I let it idle a bit before trying to take it out for a spin and only started stuttering when it got some heat in the engine.

Any other possible causes?

Side question, is there any cheapish way to read codes? Can't (don't want to) take it to the dealer and don't really want to fork out 300 for a VCDS.

Sent from a green cloud on planet Procrastination
 
Check the coilpack wiring, it may be cracked.

You can get a cheap cable off ebay to read codes, which works with VCDS lite.

Alternatively, how far are you from Antwerp/Essen?
 
The car is parked in Vorst, but not driveable for the moment.

I'll have a look for the VCDS lite ... any other options that would work with the cheap BT dongle i have left from my Toyota Days ?

Tomorrow we'll have a look at the coil cables / pack during the lunch break. I'll report back here if / when we find something.
 
Be carefull of them cheap ebay cables for reading vcd's lite. I got one and always says can not connect. If u do go down that route mybe some one on here could recommend a seller that have them and work.
 
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