Why an S3 Sportback over a Golf R - thoughts please.

HI, may I suggest this thread http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-or-golf-r-or-even-an-s1.219948/

This topic has been discussed at length, so thread above is a good start.

The common perception is that the Golf R, due to different setup and chassis dynamics, is the purer/more fun driving experience. I've not driven one, but I love my S3 and I suspect in the real world, unless you're an EVO journo or on a track, the difference will be negligible. So try something new today!

I road tested Golf R and Audi S3 (mag ride 19") both for about 3 hours each. I placed an order for an S3. Why? Drive dynamics were very similar. I thought the Audi was a bit weaker in steering feel and feedback though. The main reasons for the S3 were I prefer a saloon to a hatchback, it looks better, it is better finished, preferred the wheel options. These are just personal viewpoints and mostly styling reasons etc. One other reason, is you do not see yourself coming the opposite way all the time...there are a ton of Golf's out there. The Golf R though is one hell of a good bang for the money.

S3 is a more mature ride for a man of yer advancing years...............take one for a spin and you'll have 'Pussy Galore'

From my own experience I can only recommend trying them and pick the one you're happy with.

I preferred the S3 interior over the Golf R, and went with one after trying a number of different cars. Turned out the S3 wasn't quite right for me and in the end I'm moving on after 18 months, performance was great, but bouncy suspension didn't suit me, along with seating position I could get quite right.

Quality of S3 is great and the interior is a nice place to be. Launch control was always fun, especially if the roads were not perfectly dry. Car was great on the motorway and the economy was pretty surprising considering all of the power.

My less powerful RS Megane was more fun and involving to drive, but the build quality was crap in comparison to the S3, but it meant the Audi had a tough act to follow for driving enjoyment.

If the suspension was more sorted I'll certainly consider a return to an S3 in the future when I don't need a bigger car.

If I was after another hot hatch now the Golf R and Focus RS would be on my test drive list, along with the RS3 if it comes along again.


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E S Blofeld said:

Braso thanks for that. Very interesting. You mention suspension set-up. The R feels very planted, and I like that. I did think the S3 I drove today with passive dampers felt softer than the Golf R. I was looking to spec a car with 19'" alloys and Mag ride. Have you driven the S3 with mag ride? I assume that helps with the bouncy ride? Thank I need to try a mag ride car.

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Mag ride has come up on a lot of threads on this forum and I think it's fair to say it makes a big difference. I've never driven without it as it's standard on the saloon but planted is too small a word to describe how mine feels. I've said this before but you'd have to be a serious maniac to lose grip on anything other than an incredibly poor road surface.

Looked at the R here in Oz and the S3. Took both out for test drives and once I had been in the S3, the interior sold it for me. It just felt more refined and elegant, plus the minimilistic dash was nicer. The R had this really naff piano black plastic all the way through the dash that just screamed fingerprints!
At the end of the day, my S3 wont see a track nor be tuned. It'll plod around in the stop/start maximum 20kph sydney traffic and then get a run at the weekends if I head out of town. (hence why I didnt opt for the RS3 - would never get to drive it in any gear other than 1st - 3rd on my commute to and from work )

If you can't sell yourself on one or the other, not much chance anyone here will.

Plenty here came from a Golf R, for good reasons but your decision should be based on what you want from the car, not what others think.

MFL's link gives you all thew info you need

I ordered an r back in march,
I cancelled for a few reasons.

The golf r was £30 more per month expensive than the s3 like for like.
There are so many golf r's on the road the residule will plumit.
The interior is so much nicer
The facelift s3 was due and looked awesome and had the 7speed stronic which is awesome by the way.
Bang and olfsen is better than dynaudio

I've now got the s3 facelift and don't regret it one bit! I've only had it 4 weeks tomorrow and already seen about 6 golf rs and only 1 s3.

Also I think they leave the s3 out of tests because it's not the top of the range a3, the rs3 is. The golf r, focus rs, civic type r etc are all top of their range.

deanshaw24 said:

I ordered an r back in march,
I cancelled for a few reasons.

The golf r was £30 more per month expensive than the s3 like for like.

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Not to hijack the thread

That is interesting....In the colonies..Canada...that is not the case the Golf R is considerably less expensive.
I also did a check on the Audi UK build site on an S3 saloon vs Canadian S3 pricing. No hatchback for North America.
There are fewer options available for the North American market, as they offer only two loaded packages and a few options but when you spec out the UK car to what I ordered. The price in the UK is over 8,000.00 quid more than Canadian pricing including appropriate taxes, freight, and pre-delivery charges, as those are extra to the prices shown. Check out the Audi Canadian build page and you will be p*ssed off at the difference. Canadian dollars you multiply by 0.57.to get sterling. UK VAT and other taxes really push up the price? Also the poor cousins in Canada pay way less than our American cousins for similar vehicles. Pricing for markets I presume?

Back to the thread

I will say, after owning an R prior to the S3, aside from the usual comments, the R felt like a bus inside compared to the S3 mainly due to the excessively deep windows. Was a bad thing.

The S3 sedan/saloon actually feels 'sporty' because of the shorter windows.

Personally, I was over hatches and sportbacks having owned them for the past 7-8 years so the S3 sedan/saloon was a logical choice.

E S Blofeld said:

Braso thanks for that. Very interesting. You mention suspension set-up. The R feels very planted, and I like that. I did think the S3 I drove today with passive dampers felt softer than the Golf R. I was looking to spec a car with 19'" alloys and Mag ride. Have you driven the S3 with mag ride? I assume that helps with the bouncy ride? Thank I need to try a mag ride car.

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My S3 SB has mag ride and 19s, it took a long time to find a SB to test that did. Mag ride does make a difference in my opinion, and fixes some of the bounce issues in day to day driving, but it doesn't eradicate it, on some of the roads round me with bad rutting and undulations can really unsettle the car, particularly if you're pushing on. And it's still awful over speed bumps.


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I was looking hard at the Golf R when getting my S3. I personally would have gotten the R over the S3 due to a promotion that made a new R with much options a few thousand pounds less than my 1 year old pre owned S3 was, but my wife liked the S3 interior (and exterior) way more and really didn't want to pay that much "for a Golf".

By the way magnetic ride in comfort sucks over speed bumps, I really prefer dynamic suspension for most use cases as the comfort is very bouncy.

Most of us have found that auto works best for suspension to deal with the bouncy castle effect

Mag ride doesn't add a lot if you don't use auto mode (adapting)

Comfort and Dynamic are the worst in that regard

Edit - must admit, the revised shocks that Audi fitted under warranty made a big diff in ride quality and NVH

I do like the dynamic though, could be a bit more stiff really. Can auto push it past dynamic into a proper sport mode?

It's an Audi. No such thing as sport

Haha, okay, change of question. Is auto just suspension between comfort and dynamic due to the situation or can it go beyond these? If it is the former I might as well just use dynamic all the time.

I have a FL S3, one of the other consultants has a Golf R, we have both tried each others cars (we have a company insurance scheme so anyone can drive anyone else's car) on more than one occasion, and he is a petrolhead (more so than me)

Here is a summary of a topic we have spent a long, long time collectively discussing over the last 2 months or so. Both of us have manual cars and neither of us have adaptive dampers.

Golf R
+looks good but only on the 19" pretoria wheels (he has these and limestone grey paint), we both have collectively agreed we dont like the standard golf R alloys as much, and wouldn't have a Golf on them.
-Is a Golf, no getting away from that, Golf's are great cars, but there are a few of them around (there are usually no less than 5 GTD's and 3 Golf R's in the shared car park on any given day)
-interior although its leather and has blue dials is almost identical to the GTD, which is not a bad thing but doesn't scream premium
+sounds awesome both inside and out, definitely louder than the S3.
+chassis is amazing, it such a competent car, throw into a corner plant your foot and it just neutralises, I can't drive but it fools me into thinking I can, and thats the key, it makes you feel good about yourself
+power delivery, linear and strong in the mid range, get an extra surge to the redline
-power delivery, its the Borg of engines, utterly soulless, smashes everything out of its way in a very "resitance is futile" fashion

S3
+looks good, i am biased, but we both agree the S3 is better looking and more purposeful, we both love the standard 18's
-can and does get mistaken for a "normal" A3, you'll never mistake a Golf R for a GTI or similar, you can tell straight away its an R
+interior, Audi make the better interior, its just more premium, when you start considering that you can have virtual dash and apple car play, well its just a nicer place to be
-Sound deadening, from inside its very refined, i normally open the window a smidge just so i can hear it, doesn't sound as good as the golf R
+chassis is also amazing, but not in the same way as the golf R, its definitely softer and more pliable, and i behaves 80% of how the R behaves, but it just doesn't have the hard edge, and therefore doesn't flatter you in the same way.
+power delivery, the FL S3 engine is very, very linear, you (that is to say neither of us) can't tell the difference between 3000 RPM and 6000 RPM (apart from the noise, and speed obviously)
-power delivery somehow manages to be even more soulless than the golf R

in summary

Golf R, get the 19's and leather (which put the price up), corners better, definitely firmer.
S3, Lovely interior 18's looks good (is ironically cheaper to lease), looks a bit better.

Also, test drive both of them together, on the same day one after the other, that's the only way to be certain, my opinions (and i do have opinions) are just that, and what I think is good the rest of the world might disagree with.

Ofarlig said:

Haha, okay, change of question. Is auto just suspension between comfort and dynamic due to the situation or can it go beyond these? If it is the former I might as well just use dynamic all the time.

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Auto is adaptive, the other modes are not

A golf is a golf - look exactly the same

A3 and S3 the same

Handling - both are mumbling dinosaurs. Heavy and ham fished

Neither sound amazing. If you think they are, you need a good dose of drugs

Edit - oh and the saloon gets 19s, not that it matters

WarwickL said:

Auto is adaptive, the other modes are not

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Yeah but what is the range it can be adaptive in? Can it become more sporty than dynamic or is dynamic the most sporty it can get? If that is the most sporty it can get I might as well just use dynamic

Dynamic is just that and TBH it is a crap setting as far as ride goes. There is very little 'sporty' about it or any of the drive select modes.

Auto is adaptive on the fly, adjusting each shock individually every few microseconds

However, every drive select mode in terms of ride is much the same, slight differences.

Which doesn't answer my question . Googling around seems to say that dynamic is the stiffest setting and auto will not stiff it up more so I might as well use dynamic.

Go for it

WarwickL said:

A golf is a golf - look exactly the same

A3 and S3 the same

Handling - both are mumbling dinosaurs. Heavy and ham fished

Neither sound amazing. If you think they are, you need a good dose of drugs

Edit - oh and the saloon gets 19s, not that it matters

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Fair enough.

I don't think calling them ham fisted is fair unless you state what you are using to compare them against? in the segment they are made for they handle very well, Neither of them are track focused weapons, but they never claimed to be, its a family hatchback, if i chuck it into a corner and it flatters me into thinking i did a good job is that not a bad thing? If you compared either of them to the cars they are based on they'd seem razor sharp.

So the noise, i have stated a few times that "a turbo 4 pot is hardly the most inspiring thing in the world" when you compare the Golf R sound to the S3 the golf R sounds better, not when you compare the S3/Golf R against a higher cylinder count motor.

when taken in context of a "inline 4 turbo" (only) they both sound pretty good, in my opinion only the only "inline 4 turbo" that sounded better in that particular segment (which is the 2.0 litre turbo inline 4 hatchback with 300PS or more segment) was the A45 (which i would have taken over the S3 or the Golf R if i could have made it work)

These are of course just my opinions, feel free to disagree (again)

WarwickL said:

Most of us have found that auto works best for suspension to deal with the bouncy castle effect

Mag ride doesn't add a lot if you don't use auto mode (adapting)

Comfort and Dynamic are the worst in that regard

Edit - must admit, the revised shocks that Audi fitted under warranty made a big diff in ride quality and NVH

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I agree auto is the way to go in terms of setup, comfort is far from comfortable along a bump road.

Interesting on the revised shocks.


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Boy Racer of MenoPorche (my wife calls our S3 the later). I was put off by the R looks and the interior was horrid. I have a base level VW Up as well and it has the same plastics !
I am sure it the experts are right that the R is a more fun drive , but I am happy to blend in . I Know it is sad , but I am happy just to sit in the S3 it is such a nice place to be.
It is not perfect. I find the drive modes ( S tronic) need sorting. All but dynamic change up to early. Nearly always running below the power band. Dynamic sits in the power band , but too much so for day to day driving. I find myself flipping in "sport" or using the paddles ( Particularly to use the engine braking and keep it buzzing) . I hope the 7 speed is better.
It does also "lag" At a busy junction and you want to pull out quick. Nothing , nothing , then Oh my god . You get used to it , and adapt . I know a manual box would sort that , but happy to live with the fault as actually like the s tronic.

Can't say much about the Golf other than what has already been said. Just my Two Peneth.

All the 3 way suspension button does is give you the option of bouncy, squishy and slightly less bouncy or rattly fillings and scarily bouncy.

musicegbdf said:

Boy Racer of MenoPorche (my wife calls our S3 the later). I was put off by the R looks and the interior was horrid. I have a base level VW Up as well and it has the same plastics !
I am sure it the experts are right that the R is a more fun drive , but I am happy to blend in . I Know it is sad , but I am happy just to sit in the S3 it is such a nice place to be.
It is not perfect. I find the drive modes ( S tronic) need sorting. All but dynamic change up to early. Nearly always running below the power band. Dynamic sits in the power band , but too much so for day to day driving. I find myself flipping in "sport" or using the paddles ( Particularly to use the engine braking and keep it buzzing) . I hope the 7 speed is better.
It does also "lag" At a busy junction and you want to pull out quick. Nothing , nothing , then Oh my god . You get used to it , and adapt . I know a manual box would sort that , but happy to live with the fault as actually like the s tronic.

Can't say much about the Golf other than what has already been said. Just my Two Peneth.

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Hello (first post and probably my last!!). I have recently traded my 2014 3dr S3 for a delivery mileage 2016 5dr Golf R. Both cars manual and with mag ride. I will try to give you a balanced point of view on each car.

Looks - this is always going to be subjective but I prefer the look of the R (particularly on the 19s) over the somewhat restrained looks of the S3. As many have identified, the S3 can and does look like many an A3 (unless you approach from the back - 4 pipes!) so I suppose it is perhaps more of a 'sleeper' than the R but I want my 'hot hatch' to look at least a little 'hot' and I think the R has this about right. Not too shouty and not too restrained either. What I will say is that the Audi does seem to be more sturdy, robust and slightly better built.

Interior - there is no question that the quality of the S3 interior is higher than the R. I think to describe it as 'horrid' is a bit extreme!. My R has the leather interior and I certainly find the seats more supportive than the standard leather fitted to my S3, particularly when pressing on. Ergonomically, I hated the rising display on the S3 dash. I always used to lower it because I found its position distracting during normal driving. However, the little circular switch by the gear-lever to change tracks, radio stations was great and the menus through the large circular switch were very easy to navigate. The touch screen on the Golf is a bit of a pain to be honest because you do need to take your eyes off the road to operate it properly.

Driving - I find the ride in the R is more supple than the S3. The S3 (whatever the mag ride setting) seemed to crash and bounce over even the smallest imperfection. The R is by no means soft (it is a hot hatch after all) but it just seems to be more composed over bumps and imperfections. The steering on the R certainly has more feel to it than on the S3. I always set the S3 steering to sport (individual) because although made artificially heavy, the other settings were way too light for my liking. Dynamically, and it's difficult to understand this, the R is way better to drive in all regimes. It doesn't under steer as badly as the S3, it can be driven into corners much harder (well, that's how it feels) and grips harder, positively encouraging you to go faster/harder? The S3 never really felt comfortable pressing on. I drive twice a week, 140 miles on a Sunday evening and then 140 miles back on a Friday afternoon. Half dual carriageway and half fast flowing A roads. If you pressed on in the S3 on the A roads, you quickly found what I would describe as its comfortable limit. Sometimes there would be some deep breaths and a little anxiety as you pressed on. The R doesn't seem to have that limit (or perhaps I haven't found it) it just encourages you to press on, feeling completely secure and safe while doing so. They shouldn't be but for some reason they are like chalk and cheese.

I should clarify that I am not swayed by the badge on the front of the car. I buy the car that I feel is right for the journeys I do. A few years back that was 420 miles each way every 2 weeks (mainly motorway/dual carriageway). I bought a diesel Astra SRI (163 bhp). Sacrilege I'm sure to some to mention Vauxhalls on an Audi forum but it was one of the best cars I have owned. I have owned a little Mazda 2 when I was commuting 13 miles each way every day - perfect and fun for the job. The point I'm getting at here is that I buy what I perceive is the right car for the journeys I'm doing. I don't really care if there are lots of the same car about if that car does the job for me. I certainly wouldn't buy a car on the basis of there being fewer of them on the road.

To sum the 2 cars up I would say that the R is the better car (probably signed off in R+D by a 'driver') but the S3 is the better product (signed off by an accountant). I purchased my S3 just as the Golf R was staring to appear in early road tests. I rather wish now that I had hung on a couple of months and tested the R as well. If I had, I think I would have been a Golf R owner for the last 3 years.

All my personnel opinion of course!

There's this if you can bear to listen to these two.

Mr Mustard said:

There's this if you can bear to listen to these two.

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I didn't last long with that.

batch said:

I didn't last long with that.

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..............lol, me neither mate.................the sort of blokes you'd like to bury in a deep hole!!

Can someone explain to me in English how the suspension on an S3 is in any way soft and squishy or like a bouncy castle? and then go on to explain what would be the ideal suspension setup? because I really must have missed something here.

The only car i ever drove that I'd say comes near that description was a Vauxhall Vectra and i hated it. The last time I got in the S3 I did not think, "this S3 reminds me of that Vauxhall Vectra I once drove".