Changing all 4 pistons on Audi S3 2.0tfsi

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cupraraj

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Hello

According to the garage I have a crack in 2 of my pistons which is leading in the car eating through my spark plugs and causing continuous misfire which is barely drivable.

They put the snake camera down there but they are suggesting taking the head off to inspect further

mods on the car so far are TTE420 Turbo. Turboback Miltek, LOBA Hpfp. RS3 Intank Pump. Stage 2++ and GIAC Stage 3 dsg flash and was dyno'd just shy of 400bhp

Apparently Audi have revised the pistons now so I am being told I need to change all 4 and have been quoted just under £2000. which includes changing pistons, waterpump and cambelt, headgasket and other bits. Labour is around £800 and the rest is parts

is this reasonable? should I be going for forged pistons for the power and im running and any recommendations where to get from? Are dealers the only place for pistons?

Thanks
 
Tsr performance do the forged Pistons mate and you might as well do the rods why your in there
 
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cupraraj said:
Hello

According to the garage I have a crack in 2 of my pistons which is leading in the car eating through my spark plugs and causing continuous misfire which is barely drivable.

They put the snake camera down there but they are suggesting taking the head off to inspect further

mods on the car so far are TTE420 Turbo. Turboback Miltek, LOBA Hpfp. RS3 Intank Pump. Stage 2++ and GIAC Stage 3 dsg flash and was dyno'd just shy of 400bhp

Apparently Audi have revised the pistons now so I am being told I need to change all 4 and have been quoted just under £2000. which includes changing pistons, waterpump and cambelt, headgasket and other bits. Labour is around £800 and the rest is parts

is this reasonable? should I be going for forged pistons for the power and im running and any recommendations where to get from? Are dealers the only place for pistons?

Thanks
Click to expand...

That's a serious amount of cash for that lot.

Mine has PEC rods and Wossner pistons,and the total bill for that lot was around £1k.

http://www.steelconrods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=22_28_85&products_id=1398

You can also get piston and rod sets from Integrated Engineering and other sources.

All of these will be way tougher than OEM sets.
 
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S3Alex said:
That's a serious amount of cash for that lot.

Mine has PEC rods and Wossner pistons,and the total bill for that lot was around £1k.

http://www.steelconrods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=22_28_85&products_id=1398

You can also get piston and rod sets from Integrated Engineering and other sources.

All of these will be way tougher than OEM sets.
Click to expand...

what should i expect to pay? the are quoting the below

headgasket - £90
headbolts - £75
head bolt washers - £45
all 4 pistons - £658
cambelt kit - £190
waterpump - £55
oil and filter - £50
coolant - £10

and then £800 on labour to change the above

the link you sent me parts alone are over £800 so are you saying you paid near 1k fitted and supplied?
 
cupraraj said:
what should i expect to pay? the are quoting the below

headgasket - £90
headbolts - £75
head bolt washers - £45
all 4 pistons - £658
cambelt kit - £190
waterpump - £55
oil and filter - £50
coolant - £10

and then £800 on labour to change the above

the link you sent me parts alone are over £800 so are you saying you paid near 1k fitted and supplied?
Click to expand...

My link was to a full set of much tougher pistons including rods than you're being offered by Audi for stock pistons alone.

You would of course need all of the other bits such as gaskets bolts and labour but the point is that if the engine is in bits there is good sense in replacing with better parts.
 
Last edited:
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S3Alex said:
My link was to a full set of much tougher pistons including rods than you're being offered by Audi for stock pistons alone.

You would of course need all of the other bits such as gaskets bolts and labour but the point is that if the engine is in bits there is good sense in replacing with better parts.
Click to expand...

so is £2000 all in reasonable?
 
i could supply my own parts and save around £400 but the only issue with that is if the garage fits them and somethings not right its my fault because I supplied parts! that's the dilemma im in...

also I would want to put uprated rods and pistons in but I may have to supply my own as its not OEM so that's another ball ache if they don't work ive got to pay all the labour all over again whereas if they supply and fit its on them!
 
Be very careful in piston sizing and clearances.

The clearances are critical and I left that to a man who knows. Lol

AMDTuning did all of it for me and built the engine.
The proof of that is the engine is still running more power 40k miles after.
 
cupraraj said:
what should i expect to pay? the are quoting the below

headgasket - £90
headbolts - £75
head bolt washers - £45
all 4 pistons - £658
cambelt kit - £190
waterpump - £55
oil and filter - £50
coolant - £10

and then £800 on labour to change the above

the link you sent me parts alone are over £800 so are you saying you paid near 1k fitted and supplied?
Click to expand...

"headbolt washers" the bolts don't need washers!

the cambelt kit with water pump from TPS is approx. £170
the G13 coolant is about £13 per 1L bottle which 3 should be plenty from empty when mixed with water
the headgasket is about £40ish from TPS
head bolts are £40ish
 
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grainqey said:
"headbolt washers" the bolts don't need washers!

the cambelt kit with water pump from TPS is approx. £170
the G13 coolant is about £13 per 1L bottle which 3 should be plenty from empty when mixed with water
the headgasket is about £40ish from TPS
head bolts are £40ish
Click to expand...

don't you have to have an account though to buy from TPS?

also garage have mentioned they don't need to take the engine out to do the job - they will be taking the head off and the sump and doing it that way which I thought was odd.
 
cupraraj said:
don't you have to have an account though to buy from TPS?

also garage have mentioned they don't need to take the engine out to do the job - they will be taking the head off and the sump and doing it that way which I thought was odd.
Click to expand...
naa! you just tell them you're public and they just add VAT to the trade price (still cheaper than VW/Audi though)
Thanks
 
cupraraj said:
don't you have to have an account though to buy from TPS?

also garage have mentioned they don't need to take the engine out to do the job - they will be taking the head off and the sump and doing it that way which I thought was odd.
Click to expand...

Well,technically you can,but it isn't the way most engineers would do it.

I'd still say that if the cost differential between what they propose,and an uprated set of pistons and rods done properly isn't too large,I would go with the latter,especially if you plan on more power etc later on.
 
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As Alex has said, one engineering term is "do it right, do it once!" there's also another which is "if you're going to do it then do it right" lol

It's not a hard job to swap the internals but it is quite time consuming! it's a lot easier to take the engine out and put it onto an engine stand but it is possible to do it with the oil pump and cylinder head off though the crank is in the way!
 
grainqey said:
"headbolt washers" the bolts don't need washers!

the cambelt kit with water pump from TPS is approx. £170
the G13 coolant is about £13 per 1L bottle which 3 should be plenty from empty when mixed with water
the headgasket is about £40ish from TPS
head bolts are £40ish
Click to expand...
I paid £140 for a full belt kit and pump from tps so you have been over charged there
 
s3joe said:
I paid £140 for a full belt kit and pump from tps so you have been over charged there
Click to expand...
I might have paid similar to you but it's a few months since and I didn't have the piece of paper to hand when I posted so said higher rather than lower, I couldn't remember if it was 130ish with or without water pump so added some on for a water pump
 
car is still at the garage as pistons have been on back order! Pistons arrived but apparently the pistons my car originally has have been revised to a different size wrist pin! which means they wont fit on my existing rods so I either need to change the rods (extra £700) or try and find the original pistons which are 06D 107 066L

Does anyone know where I can find who will still stock the original OEM ones?

garage have said I can fit uprated pistons and rods but he has had a lot of people come in with issues with the aftermarket stuff and seen oil consumption issues with them so not sure what to do!
 
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It would help to know where you live. We could then advise on recommended Independent VAG specialists in your part of the world.
 
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Just checked the entire dealer network including TPS. - absolutely none.

Think you may have had a typo on the part number, I guess you mean - 06D107066L.

+ if it helps I can get you a new set of rods for £600 inc VAT.

Cheers

Mike
 
cupraraj said:
car is still at the garage as pistons have been on back order! Pistons arrived but apparently the pistons my car originally has have been revised to a different size wrist pin! which means they wont fit on my existing rods so I either need to change the rods (extra £700) or try and find the original pistons which are 06D 107 006L

Does anyone know where I can find who will still stock the original OEM ones?

garage have said I can fit uprated pistons and rods but he has had a lot of people come in with issues with the aftermarket stuff and seen oil consumption issues with them so not sure what to do!
Click to expand...

Sizing the pistons to the bores is critical,as is the skill of the engine builder.

Mine was fitted with PEC rods and Wossner pistons,and oil consumption has never been an issue.
Steve at AMDTuning did the build.
 
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Soot1 said:
It would help to know where you live. We could then advise on recommended Independent VAG specialists in your part of the world.
Click to expand...

UK - West Midlands

mjr901 said:
Just checked the entire dealer network including TPS. - absolutely none.

Think you may have had a typo on the part number, I guess you mean - 06D107066L.

+ if it helps I can get you a new set of rods for £600 inc VAT.

Cheers

Mike
Click to expand...

thanks Mike however I am not prepared to spend nearly £1200 on standard rods and pistons. I may have to look at supply uprated rods and pistons for the power its running. sorry yes a typo i have just corrected it.
 
S3Alex said:
Sizing the pistons to the bores is critical,as is the skill of the engine builder.

Mine was fitted with PEC rods and Wossner pistons,and oil consumption has never been an issue.
Steve at AMDTuning did the build.
Click to expand...
I'm also thinking that oil consumption shouldn't be higher.
Probably something was overlooked or done wrong durring the fitting.
 
is TSR Performance the best place to get uprated pistons and rods from? or can I get them direct from Germany? ideally I want to keep the cost down as much as possible as this is going to be a big bill!
 
I assume yours are 22mm rather than 21mm wrist pins?

The rods are all made in china is it? from what S3Alex said and only finished locally!

I've got 21mm cdl rods and wossner pistons spare currently but for arguments sake I was going to have them recoated (about 18 pounds per piston) and fresh piston rings (as they're no good without them) if you're interested in both or just pistons for example then drop me a pm

I think I got my pistons for about 550ish off ebay FWIW
 
cupraraj said:
is TSR Performance the best place to get uprated pistons and rods from? or can I get them direct from Germany? ideally I want to keep the cost down as much as possible as this is going to be a big bill!
Click to expand...

PEC were good for me to be honest.

They do complete sets of pistons rods and rings.

http://www.steelconrods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=22_28_85&products_id=1398


My other one stop shop would be Integrated Engineering.


Do be sure to check piston sizing and be prepared for a wait if stocks are low.
The reason for my comment about where all the rods are forged is that when we were buying every supplier of finished products had the same supply problem.
IE,JE,PEC etc etc. All the same leading to one conclusion I.e the source is the same.
 
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grainqey said:
I assume yours are 22mm rather than 21mm wrist pins?

The rods are all made in china is it? from what S3Alex said and only finished locally!

I've got 21mm cdl rods and wossner pistons spare currently but for arguments sake I was going to have them recoated (about 18 pounds per piston) and fresh piston rings (as they're no good without them) if you're interested in both or just pistons for example then drop me a pm

I think I got my pistons for about 550ish off ebay FWIW
Click to expand...
my wrist pins are 21mm I believe and bore size is 82.5mm

however if I replace both rods and pistons does it matter what wrist pin size I go for?

S3Alex said:
PEC were good for me to be honest.

They do complete sets of pistons rods and rings.

http://www.steelconrods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=22_28_85&products_id=1398


My other one stop shop would be Integrated Engineering.


Do be sure to check piston sizing and be prepared for a wait if stocks are low.
The reason for my comment about where all the rods are forged is that when we were buying every supplier of finished products had the same supply problem.
IE,JE,PEC etc etc. All the same leading to one conclusion I.e the source is the same.
Click to expand...

sizing wise as above. 21mm wrist pin and bore size is 82.5 but waiting for garage to confirm. price I was hoping for the £800 mark ish for rods and pistons but TSR are quoting over £1000. Every little counts right now as im putting fresh new injectors in also as garage aren't confident putting the same ones in which I changed a month ago! along with cambelt waterpump and head etc...labour side is coming out at £1000 alone!
 
Yes.
I can understand that but replacing basically new injectors sounds like overkill.
Replace them if they're wonky but not otherwise.

Going to PEC will cost roughly the same but you will also need bolts and bearing shells.
 
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I agree with what S3Alex has said entirely, if in doubt you could try cleaning the injectors in an ultrasonic cleaner but I don't see why there should be any justification unless you have high milage or possibly if the injector timings are miles apart on VCDS!

If you're going to the trouble of taking the internals out then you may as well uprate it... or swap the engine completely as it's less work and harder for somebody to get wrong!

If you swapped the engine then you could either sell on or upgrade the spare engine when funds are more available and then you'd have a good engine to sell on once you'd fitted the upgraded engine - upto you which way you choose to go though!
 
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S3Alex said:
Yes.
I can understand that but replacing basically new injectors sounds like overkill.
Replace them if they're wonky but not otherwise.

Going to PEC will cost roughly the same but you will also need bolts and bearing shells.
Click to expand...

Hello Alex,

are you running wossner pistons with PEC rods? how long have you had them and how do you find them? does the car feel different and is yours manual or s tronic?

if I buy http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wossner-Forged-Pistons-and-PEC-Steel-Connecting-Rod-Kit-Audi-S3-8P-2-0TFSI-16V-/322070225063?hash=item4afce1a0a7:g:nnsAAOSwu4BV6Z45 will these be suitable for my car? The garage where the car is at is saying I need Pistons with a comp ratio of 10.5:1 but the wossner ones are 9:82:1 and also the description in there listing state OEM pistons are 9:8:1 which is different to what im being told!
 
cupraraj said:
Hello Alex,

are you running wossner pistons with PEC rods? how long have you had them and how do you find them? does the car feel different and is yours manual or s tronic?

if I buy http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wossner-Forged-Pistons-and-PEC-Steel-Connecting-Rod-Kit-Audi-S3-8P-2-0TFSI-16V-/322070225063?hash=item4afce1a0a7:g:nnsAAOSwu4BV6Z45 will these be suitable for my car? The garage where the car is at is saying I need Pistons with a comp ratio of 10.5:1 but the wossner ones are 9:82:1 and also the description in there listing state OEM pistons are 9:8:1 which is different to what im being told!
Click to expand...

Wossner pistons and PEC rods....manual but soon to be DSG.

They've been in for over 5 years,and with no problems.
You may notice a bit of piston slap from cold,and I usually let the car idle for a few minutes before moving off anyway.

The CR is a bit lower,and if I remember,the stock CR is 10.5:1,but the Wossners are lower...I noticed no difference at all.
 
S3Alex said:
Wossner pistons and PEC rods....manual but soon to be DSG.

They've been in for over 5 years,and with no problems.
You may notice a bit of piston slap from cold,and I usually let the car idle for a few minutes before moving off anyway.

The CR is a bit lower,and if I remember,the stock CR is 10.5:1,but the Wossners are lower...I noticed no difference at all.
Click to expand...
Thanks Alex,

I will order the ones on ebay from WG Motorparts however I cant seem to get a response from them if its compatible for my CDLA
Also can anyone tell me what de coking is and what benefit it will have? hopefully after its all rebuilt it will be strong as ever!
 
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Be sure the sizings are absolutely spot on.
It may be best to get that checked before buying.

I'll show you some before and after decoking pics later
 
S3Alex said:
Be sure the sizings are absolutely spot on.
It may be best to get that checked before buying.

I'll show you some before and after decoking pics later
Click to expand...
Hi Alex,

did you have trouble getting he right sizes?

The seller of the Wossner pistons and PEC rods have asked me for Conrod sizes and piston size to double check as he mentioned there is a lot of variation! I would of thought they would of fitted as it says TFSI for an S3

I hope they have the right ones for my car!
 
cupraraj said:
Hi Alex,

did you have trouble getting he right sizes?

The seller of the Wossner pistons and PEC rods have asked me for Conrod sizes and piston size to double check as he mentioned there is a lot of variation! I would of thought they would of fitted as it says TFSI for an S3

I hope they have the right ones for my car!
Click to expand...

Exactly my point.

We had no trouble,but it was done by AMDTuning who had used PEC components on engine builds before.
 
S3Alex said:
Exactly my point.

We had no trouble,but it was done by AMDTuning who had used PEC components on engine builds before.
Click to expand...

WG Motorparts have come back and told me correct pistons but asked me which rods do I want to go for...

I-Beam Rods which tend to be for higher revving applications and H-Beam rods which tend to be for higher Horsepower (turbo) applications.

as I have a big turbo and supposed to be 400bhp shall I go for the H beam?
 
cupraraj said:
WG Motorparts have come back and told me correct pistons but asked me which rods do I want to go for...

I-Beam Rods which tend to be for higher revving applications and H-Beam rods which tend to be for higher Horsepower (turbo) applications.

as I have a big turbo and supposed to be 400bhp shall I go for the H beam?
Click to expand...

I would go for the toughest available....mine are H-pattern,and the engine rpm limit is around 7500rpm,but the limiting factor on yours will be the top end as you need something like the Ferrea valvetrain to significantly raise the rpm limit.
 
bit of an update - new wossner pistons and PEC rods fitted by the garage and said the car feels good and strong however the ignition timing is out when they were on a test drive and had it plugged in at the same time...they have mentioned speaking to the company who tuned it and get them to tweak the map - does this sound about right?
 
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