difficulties refitting engine mount after timing belt change.

Stuart B

Stuart B

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Okay so I have the engine on blocks and a 3 inch downpipe fitted, so am adjusting the height of the car instead to try and refit the engine mount, but I cannot get the engine mount back into place.

I lifted the body up but then that lifted the engine off the blocks when the downpipe was on the bodywork and when I lower it the same.

I got the engine mount out without the belt on anymore.

This is doing my head in :(

Has anyone tried removing the damper pulley (shiny gold one in the picture to get the leg past the coolant pump and belt or have I missed a trick here?

Thanks for any ideas

Also my screenwash is leaking somehow through a drain hole so I keep getting drops going in my mouth and nose every 5 minutes :(

IMAG2269
 
I think the mount should be put loosely into position at the same time as fitting timing belt
 
I've done loads of these over the yeas, and there is no magic answer!... They are quite simply a c***

Get the mount round the back of the engine, get the engine as high as you can. Maybe try wiggling the engine back and forth as well... It will go eventually!
 
Yeah just got to persevere. The engine mount does have to be in position so the belt can route properly.

IIRC put the bolt that's horizontal to the ground in so the mount is lined up but not threaded in at all. Or if it is, just a bit... You need the play to be able to do the belt and adjust the mount to be able to line up the top two bolts pointing to the ground.

I remember experimenting with the height.
- low = getting that hidden bolt in position me checking things were correct from underneath
- lift = belt routing and adjusting for top bolts
 
Thanks for your advice :)

So redid it after removing the damper, then getting the mount in place (not bolted in), belt on, damper back on (that's painful as you cant get to the top bolt) rotated the crank twice TDC markings still aligned.

I was expecting the piston to fly out when removing the pin, but it doesn't at all (I hope its not knackered),

When fitting the belt I wound the crack anti-clockwise a couple of teeth then loosely fitted the belt and pushed the adjuster round so the belt is tight to check the alignment.

Will fit the mid shield and mount after the F1 Qualifying, then carry on painting dining room,
 
Body should be sat on a stand and fixed position... move the engine up and down on a jack to get this in...

<tuffty/>
 
I don't ever actually remove the mount, just undo the bolts so it's loose, then manipulate the belt around the loose mount, then bolt it all back up.
 
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well its back together the torque settings seem light for all these 45 engine to mount, 40+90degree mount to body and 100 mount to mount.

need an m8/ m10 pulley allen bolt and get the aux belt on and get back the aux belt and charge pipe on tomorrow in between fitting the carpet to the dining room :D

Then flush through coolant system, if it doesn't work when its all together I will....? I mean, I hope it starts up okay then idle for a few minutes and check fluids. :)

I need to check the belt tensioner mechanism.
 
well engine actually started without loads of smashing and crashing (took a little while, fuel I expect), quite a bit of smoke from the manifold / downpipe / turbo area (hopefully burning off oils etc)

but I have a massive coolant leak from the main pipe on the left hand side (middle of engine bay), so I need some guidance on the o-ring - I should have changed it as it felt a bit stretched when I replaced the part, I am sure it is just that.
 
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lol yeah I expect that too. I will sort out the coolant flange first ( bought a new junction with o-rings), then let it run again check fluids. it does behave differently when it started it dropped to idle very quickly.

Obviously, I have not run it up to temperature being that the coolant comes out the engine quicker than it goes in.
 
Ok so I have driven 30 miles now and still have a coolant leak from the junction, I only changed the o-ring I wonder if it is cracked? does anyone put on some sealant on this too, as it is done up tight?

and whilst it was idling after the run a "camshaft position sensor" fault appeared on my android torque device - is this usually related to the timing belt correlation-error or just because I have been mucking about in that area? I will do a scan with VCDS later on.

The car runs well, I have only gone to 5250 RPM and I am getting similar figures as previously at 165Kw/220BHP / 240 lb/ft
 
Thanks Tufty, I will double check tomorrow after replacing the coolant junction, the issue with that is the bolts I fitted were obviously not the original and the heads were the same size as the metal inserts as now one insert is no longer flush with the plastic housing, I will make sure I use some washers under the heads.

If the belt is out by a tooth, is it always one way or the other? eg can I mark the belt and cam shaft and crank and belt and remove and replace the belt to the left or the right one tooth? its weird the engine management light didn't come up for 30 odd miles.
 
Okay so the Fault Code I did get was P0340 Cam Shaft Position Sensor Circuit A - Still not had a chance to use VCDS - the fault hasn't reappeared after a test run of 10 miles today to test the coolant junction was safe. I wonder whether I damaged the wiring to the sensor or similar.

What I have noticed is when starting now from cold it no longer misfires for a few seconds and also when the engine is cold the coolant no longer bubbles and a hiss of pressure relief when removing the cap, I am sure the head gasket must have been leaking before.

So lets imagine the car continues to operate okay(ish) for a few miles/weeks is it worthwhile considering a remap ( I am not thinking of extra power just accommodating the B5 TIP an 3 Inch Downpipe for correct fueling etc) I still have the old Side Mounted Intercoolers - or will the existing Stage 1 Map Suffice? of course with all the exhaust gases actually going through the back box now I expect that will start blowing.

Incidentally, when I was fitting the belt I turned the CamShaft clockwise so it was under tension rather than loose at TDC.
 
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16724/P0340

16724/P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Malfunction
Possible Symptoms
  • Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) active
Possible Causes
  • Wiring from/to Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) faulty
  • Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) faulty
  • Timing misaligned
Possible Solutions
  • Check Wiring from/to Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
  • Check Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
  • Check Timing
<tuffty/>
 
hmm so still possibly timing. thanks

Quite annoying really that TDC is not simply the mark on the camshaft cover but potentially over 3 teeth. I will recheck the guide maybe easier with cover off.

Thanks again for you help
 
I did my headgasket and timing belt last weekend and started it yesterday with no error codes. As Bill said, TDC is only one tooth, I read that it is the tooth over the top of the bolt hole as shown in the picture:

crank.jpg
 
Hi Sorry my 3 teeth comment implied

1. okay
2..correlation error (I assumed is back a tooth on cam shaft)
3. cam shaft position sensor error (I assumed is forward a tooth on cam shaft)

that's why I said over three, the TDC on the crank I am happy with (but will recheck), but the camshaft - flicks around to be around the marker but I seem to have quite a bit of range there about 1.5cm, I thought I needed to rotate camshaft clockwise a bit onto tension - maybe I went too far.

Do you know if it is possible to do this repositioning with the engine mounts still on? eg get to the damper somehow?

Although the car seems to be running well and this error doesn't seem to be on all the time, am I dreaming to imagine that the sensor or wiring is at fault - and it is certainly the timing belt (too coincidental). I did follow a historical thread on here with the same issue but the writer never updated the outcome.

Thanks
 
double check timing belt before doing anything... physical TDC, plug out on cyl 1, long screwdriver or similar to determine physical TDC, further validate by looking and flywheel mark (inspection hole on gearbox) and the timing mark on the damper pulley... if this is out you have other problems...

Then remove cam cover and check timing mark on exhaust cam... this is the pretty definitive way to check timing...

If cam is out then belt is out...

As for getting to the damper... its been a while since I have done one without removing a head so can't remember off hand but its a c-unit to compress and get the pin back in while its in situ... can be done though

http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a3...ley_end/removing_and_installing_toothed_belt/

<tuffty/>
 
Stuart B said:
hmm so still possibly timing. thanks

Quite annoying really that TDC is not simply the mark on the camshaft cover but potentially over 3 teeth. I will recheck the guide maybe easier with cover off.

Thanks again for you help
Click to expand...
there is a mark on the cam cover at tdc
 
Thanks Guys, so I will recheck the timing belt position before removing the belt using the details Tufty kindly provided. (its not the end of the world removing the engine mount, its just a lot of laying down under the car, then from above, then below again, then jacking up, then down, then the socket falling onto you eye etc

The car seems absolutely awesome at the moment, although still no WOT only 3/4 throttle up to about 5250K max (reading 250 lb/ft torque on the same device as max 239 lb/ft pre-downpipe and HG) - no EML today and I drove 40 miles in 4 different journeys through the day, some in traffic, some spirited through lanes, some coasting down long hills. The only thing I have not done is leave it idling for more than 30 seconds when reaching journeys end, as the road speed did not make this necessary (plus I didn't want the EML to ruin my day and that was when it appeared last time).

I have also actually noticed that the MPG on normal driving seems to have improved.

I changed:
3 Inch Downpipe and 200 Cell Cat
After Cat sensor (only because other one was seized in old pipe)
Head Gasket + (Exhaust, Inlet, Turbo, manifold/turbo, Cam shaft, plug gaskets)
Cleaned Turbo Hot side with Mr Muscle (although still has fracture)
Cleaned Manifold (although has a fracture)
Dog Bone Main Yellow Bush only
Gearbox / Transfer Oil
Timing Belt and pulley
Coolant Pump
Damper
Plugs (BRK7E regapped to 0.7)
Coolant Flush (hot air is still not Hot (stay away from head fix liquids)
Coolant junction (after replacing seal and using wrong sized cap heads)
Dipstick Holder
Oil + Filter
Old fashioned wiper blades rather than floppy ones
Sprayed some stuff blue(ish) :)

Removed boost gauge (looked ill-fitting and served its purpose to prove the Android App was showing 25psi max, even though in real life only 20psi)

Still quite urgent:
Driver door lock doesn't hold under sustained bumpy ride.
Bottom of offside rear spring has cracked / broken off, this I expect is an MOT failure - its inside the cup but if I noticed it.
Both Front wheel arches are bubbling - if it passes the MOT - I will get them to spray these to look good for a couple of years.
I totally hate the head lights I think someone changed the bulbs to normal after the rear adjuster seized and some other issue so they cut through the front adjust wire. (I haven't bothered putting the rear adjuster back on)
 
At least your 'to do' list is shorter than your 'been done' list mate :salute:

You are winning!
 
<tuffty/> said:
double check timing belt before doing anything... physical TDC, plug out on cyl 1, long screwdriver or similar to determine physical TDC, further validate by looking and flywheel mark (inspection hole on gearbox) and the timing mark on the damper pulley... if this is out you have other problems...

Then remove cam cover and check timing mark on exhaust cam... this is the pretty definitive way to check timing...

If cam is out then belt is out...

As for getting to the damper... its been a while since I have done one without removing a head so can't remember off hand but its a c-unit to compress and get the pin back in while its in situ... can be done though

http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a3...ley_end/removing_and_installing_toothed_belt/

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

Just as an update for thread completion, I adjusted the belt yesterday and fingers crossed no engine management light. to do this I:

Removed Road Wheel
Don't have the undertray fitted
Managed to thread the 5mm stud onto the damper and a couple of washers and finger tight nut from underneath the car
Removed lower pulley and lower belt cover
Removed charge pipe and upper belt cover
Removed cylinder 1 coil and spark plug
Turned engine to TDC on lower sprocket, using wooden spoon in cylinder 1
checked the alignment on lower sprocket using reference picture provided by another poster.
observed cam sprocket as a tiny bit before the cam cover line - so decided to try to got one tooth clockwise
used tipex to mark the belt and tooth on cam and lower sprockets
loosened belt on the dampener using the 5mm nut
removed belt from lower sprocket and turned it anticlockwise a tooth and refitted belt
seemed easier to get the belt on by fitting the water pump side correctly and rotating slightly whilst pushing belt on.
turned engine around several times noting return to TDC every 2 turns
ignored the fact the tipex marks don't re-align
revomoved stud, washers and nut - making sure they don't fall into the belt
pulled on the tensioner gently to retension the belt (I think the damper is supposed to do this but it is incredibly slow or poor)
refit lower and upper cam covers
refit lower pulley
refit auxillary belt
refit plug and coil
refit charge pipe

started engine and checked to clear the codes

the actual errors stored (I don't remember the numbers or exact messages)
1. Cam shaft position sensor
2. Powertrain co2
(these two had been showing regularly)

and also
3. Advance ignition timing
(this I had not seen before and wonder whether it appeared because the engine had learnt to be advanced to its limit due to ill fitting belt and then errored when the belt was fitted correctly?)

Thanks to you guys on the forum for your invaluable advice / encouragement as always.

I will run the car for a couple of weeks to make sure it is healthy and then consider visiting a local mapping company called Quantum (if anyone has any bad / good comments then please speak up - http://stevenage.quantumtuning.co.uk ) as since fitting the free flowing downpipe the car lacks something - maybe fuel or air I can get 186 g/s from the MAF according to Android Torque and the car revs past 6K RPM (then pretty noisey) I have looked at the B5 TIP and it doesn't look kinked.

Although, I wonder whether I would be better off changing clutch, drive shafts, inlet gasket and FMIC before bothering with the remap? If I change the inlet gasket and FMIC after a remap will I need to map it again? I do not want to map it to a point of failure.
 
I did see custom maps mentioned somewhere on the site - but haven't spoken to them yet.

Incidentally, I upgraded my paper S2000 filter to a Cosworth fabric S2000 filter and now my MAF has gone to 194 from 186 - which is where it was supposed to be according to the Stage 1 - 243BHP dyno run. I know the JR filters are better but they are also £20 more than the Cosworth S2000 version.
 
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