TUNING BOX COMPARISON – DTUK FSR+ vs MTM M-Cantronic – S3 8V model. A USERS VIEW.

If anyone is selling the mtm cantronic second hand then the buyer needs it coded to their car at a cost of £400, bear that in mind when buying one, if you get it for £400-£450 then it's a good price but there are some people selling them for £800-£850, and you still need to spend £400 on top for it to work with your car
 
Btw I have S-tronic on my S3 and ecu is caged.
 
Few people reply on mails and forum posts as fast as George though. :)

Btw to those having manuals. The default map6 is set to be very clutch friendly. Close to no slippage reports on this.
(in the end it may perhaps be inevitable though on these 'chocolate' clutches.)
George is very helpful, just not the same as phone support from Andrew but not really an issue in my eyes

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Well call me crazy but I bought a MTM M-Cantronic based on this review. Having also owned the DTUK box I can confirm the feedback is spot on.

I have a S-Tronic car and it took literally 10 minutes to install, 5 of those minutes was changing the airfilter while I waited for the ECU to power all systems off. Was a bit daunting unplugging the ECU but very easy to do and no fault codes/warning lights.

I always had hesitancy/jerkiness when cold with DTUK box regardless of settings, since the MTM reads oil temperature this is completely gone. Initially there didn't seem to be much of a power increase but over 15-20 miles it adapted and feels fantastic. Power delivery is definitely different than the DTUK, it's closest to Map 3 on V3 software but just feels like a much larger smooth engine and the car is in complete sync. You could often tell with the DTUK the car was running a bit lean and holding back until the ECU compensated which Rick @ Unicorn went into great detail about on the Golf R forums.

There hasn't been a single hesitation and in D, S and Manual the gearbox is smooth as silk, I would agree slightly moreso than stock. For those with S-Tronic cars I would strongly recommend the MTM, its expensive but worth the money and is a doddle to fit. Can even be removed at the roadside in literally 5 minutes if needed.
 
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Do either box have significant impact on MPG?

More curious than concerned. Wouldn't have bought an S3 if I didn't like standing at petrol stations!
 
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Do either box have significant impact on MPG?

More curious than concerned. Wouldn't have bought an S3 if I didn't like standing at petrol stations!

The M-Cantronic in my S1 seems to affect it negatively by about 3MPG on a 70mph long cruise, but around town it's about the same as stock.
 
The M-Cantronic in my S1 seems to affect it negatively by about 3MPG on a 70mph long cruise, but around town it's about the same as stock.
Thanks!

This write up really sells the MTM box to me but the cost is a bit more than I can just drop on a whim / without consulting SWMBO.
 
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Seriously?
You jack one side of the car up and remove the undertray, takes literally 15 mins!
I fitted mine in under an hour.
I removed it in under 40 mins as I now have points on my license!!!

Its in the classifieds for sale if anyones looking for one!!

Just a quick question about removing the undertray - from pictures I've seen I take it that the jacking up is needed in order to reach the middle rear fixing ?
 
Just a quick question about removing the undertray - from pictures I've seen I take it that the jacking up is needed in order to reach the middle rear fixing ?
Yes there are 3 torx towards the back of the tray you need to remove as well as the 8 T25s at the front and sides

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Yes there are 3 torx towards the back of the tray you need to remove as well as the 8 T25s at the front and sides

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Cheers Oli.

Just wondered for when I get around to fitting a Turbo Outlet Pipe ;o)
 
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I think the back are t40 but I'm not 100%

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Cheers Oli.

Just wondered for when I get around to fitting a Turbo Outlet Pipe ;o)
I'm ignoring any mods for a while, misses birthday is around the corner so need to behave. No matter how good it is I don't want to know lmao

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Abt/Richter Sport messed me around so I've ordered Mtm box, looking forward to it arriving now!
 
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Just to update I've now done about 600 miles with the MTM Cantronic fitted with a mix of motorway, around town and spirited driving. Car still drives perfect and not had a single hesitation/stutter or anything. The only problem now of course is that I've got used to the power and craving more... I will restrain myself until I get a new car next year :D
 
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Mine arrived today, without instructions, so used the ones jungle posted. (thanks for those!)
Had a bit of a struggle getting all of the Mtm loom tucked in and still having room to reseat the ecu, so I may have to have another try tomorrow - it currently protrudes a bit.

More importantly, how does it drive? First impressions are super impressive, noticibly more torque (really good in 5th/6th gear) , keener to rev and just as smooth as stock. It's really quite fast now!
 
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Mine had no instructions either! Easy enough though. I just tucked the cables infront of the airbox, it clears the sensor behind the headlight ok and hasn't moved at all. Would prefer to be a bit more hidden but isnt going anywhere, then I've cable tied the unit to the loom so nothing is moving/rubbing.

IMG_0050.jpg
 
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Mine arrived today, without instructions, so used the ones jungle posted. (thanks for those!)
Had a bit of a struggle getting all of the Mtm loom tucked in and still having room to reseat the ecu, so I may have to have another try tomorrow - it currently protrudes a bit.

More importantly, how does it drive? First impressions are super impressive, noticibly more torque (really good in 5th/6th gear) , keener to rev and just as smooth as stock. It's really quite fast now!

Glad its been of use sir. You should find that the wires will have a little bit more play/ forgiveness in them after you have taken it off once or twice. There are several routes to tuck the wires and it is possible to get them reasonably neat although due to the thickness of both looms you will find that there will be a small lump in one place or another.

Enjoy.
 
I installed the DTUK box over the weekend (bought 2nd hand from a user on here).

Installation was pretty straightforward - it was the first time i'd raised a car and put on axle stands so that was probably the most difficult/daunting part. Fitting the top 2 sensors was a doddle. Getting the lower sensor (under the car) was a bit tougher, the little clip just wouldn;t budge, but with the help of a flathead screwdirver it came of after a couple of mins.

When putting the tray back on the underneath I left a bit of give in the botls that hold it up at the rear so thay when/if I take the box out out I just need to unscrew the side screws and work from there.

I started on map 3, drive it for 10/15mins and to be honest was a little underwhelmed. I'd read bits on hear of people enjoying it straight away but I didn't think anythig had changed. I even thought the box may be faulty or not setup right but thought i'd give map 2 a go.
This is where I started to notice the extra torque - after a quick drive on 2+1 I went up to 2+3 - WOW. Made a real differance. I kept it like this for the weekend and was very impressed.
I turned the box off to see what stock felt like compared and it felt like I was driving in treacle!

I did try Map 3 yesterday but it was a bit too much for me - too aggressive. I can see the fun in this map, as the response and pull in the lower gears is phenominal, but day-to-day driving with this map would be too much to take.

I've settled an 2+3 and am more than happy!
 
Something of interest to golf R and S3 DSG owners running the DTUK FSR+ system

Hi Guys,

over the last few months we've been hearing of some issues that a small % of customers with DSG cars have been having when using the FSR+ system. This has all started to occur since we updated the software around 6 months ago. The funny thing about it is, that it does affect every DSG equipped car, and I'm sure there are a lot of guys on here that would back me up.

We would be silly to sit here and do nothing, well we have been doing something and we have come to this conclusion based on testing the FSR+ against another well known "tuning box".


For now i am going to keep the info very general and explain where and how we have got to today,

When the FSR+ was first launched we used 4 files, the difference between these 4 files was basically the amount of boost we were adding on zero position, each + would then take an additional step up. 90% of customers were happy with these files, but the feedback that we received from a small percentage of customers was that the car lacked something lo down compared to a remap, but was very linear and the gear changes were silky smooth, our solution at the time was to add a pedal box. This instantly brought the power in a lot earlier and the feedback was all great, and the gear changes were still silky smooth.

We then switched to the new push button module with 3 maps, we simply lost the least powerful of the 4 maps and kept map 3 (leo83) as map 3.

I have always wanted the best for customers, and commercially i should of stuck to the proven formula of the FSR+ / Pedal box, but as we do listen to customers we set upon a quest of trying to achieve what customers wanted without using the pedal box. This is were V2 and then V3 software came about.

The changes we made to the software were purely down to the signal speed of the processor, and what we found was that by adjusting these speeds we could achieve a quicker response, and on the dyno the peak torque is produced lower in the RPM range. Im sure anyone thats currently running V3 software can relate to this by simple switching between map 3 and map 1

map 3 is very linear, and personally it certainly surprises a lot of people as you don't realise how quick youre going until you look down at the speedo, in comparison map 1 is a lot more aggressive and as mentioned above on a small number of DSG cars this is causing issues with gear changes.

So what can we do to resolve this? we've been working with a couple of DSG equipped cars (1 that has notchy gear changes, and 1 that doesn't) and what we have found is that a compromise has to be made...

Map 3 doesn't cause any issues with gear changes, but is the least punchy where as map 1 as mentioned above is more in your face and is what everyone wants, and this is where our comparison to the "other box" comes into play,

We've ran this "other box" on our own golf R and another 2 2.0 TFSI's and what we have found is that the power delivery of this "other box" is very very similar to map 3, our original file, so if youre having issues with gear changes using the FSR+ and think that buy buying another box youre going to be a lot happier, then do yourself a favour and switch your box over to map 3..

So whats the difference between V3 and V4 software, (I'm sure i explained this somewhere but cant find the thread at this time)

Map 1 and map 3 are the same on V3 and V4,
Map 2 used to be a variant of map 1 with the quicker signal speeds, where as on V4 we've adjusted the signal speed and its now a compromise between map 1 and 3.

So to summarise, if youre running an FSR+ with a DSG car and youre having issues with gear changes then as mentioned above please try map 3 as this will give you a great comparison to the "alternative" or if you wish youre more than welcome to come to us and actually try this "other tuning box" for yourself

Anyone wanting to upgrade to V4 software, then this is free of charge so please contact direct to arrange this,
 
I'm manual and starting to get clutch slip in map 3 +3. Has anyone else come across this ?
 
Uh oh - the only reason I haven't tried a box on mine is the fear of clutch slip...........also drive a manual.
My choice was to be the MTM but fear whoever does the tune isn't relevant and it is the clutch that could be an issue.
 
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I'll just have to buy an up rated clutch that's all ha, I've got a down pipe and a few CTS mods then stage 2 so I'll see how it goes. The slip only happens when it's cold and I'm now running map 2 +3 and seem better.
 
Something of interest to golf R and S3 DSG owners running the DTUK FSR+ system

Hi Guys,

over the last few months we've been hearing of some issues that a small % of customers with DSG cars have been having when using the FSR+ system. This has all started to occur since we updated the software around 6 months ago. The funny thing about it is, that it does affect every DSG equipped car, and I'm sure there are a lot of guys on here that would back me up.

We would be silly to sit here and do nothing, well we have been doing something and we have come to this conclusion based on testing the FSR+ against another well known "tuning box".


For now i am going to keep the info very general and explain where and how we have got to today,

When the FSR+ was first launched we used 4 files, the difference between these 4 files was basically the amount of boost we were adding on zero position, each + would then take an additional step up. 90% of customers were happy with these files, but the feedback that we received from a small percentage of customers was that the car lacked something lo down compared to a remap, but was very linear and the gear changes were silky smooth, our solution at the time was to add a pedal box. This instantly brought the power in a lot earlier and the feedback was all great, and the gear changes were still silky smooth.

We then switched to the new push button module with 3 maps, we simply lost the least powerful of the 4 maps and kept map 3 (leo83) as map 3.

I have always wanted the best for customers, and commercially i should of stuck to the proven formula of the FSR+ / Pedal box, but as we do listen to customers we set upon a quest of trying to achieve what customers wanted without using the pedal box. This is were V2 and then V3 software came about.

The changes we made to the software were purely down to the signal speed of the processor, and what we found was that by adjusting these speeds we could achieve a quicker response, and on the dyno the peak torque is produced lower in the RPM range. Im sure anyone thats currently running V3 software can relate to this by simple switching between map 3 and map 1

map 3 is very linear, and personally it certainly surprises a lot of people as you don't realise how quick youre going until you look down at the speedo, in comparison map 1 is a lot more aggressive and as mentioned above on a small number of DSG cars this is causing issues with gear changes.

So what can we do to resolve this? we've been working with a couple of DSG equipped cars (1 that has notchy gear changes, and 1 that doesn't) and what we have found is that a compromise has to be made...

Map 3 doesn't cause any issues with gear changes, but is the least punchy where as map 1 as mentioned above is more in your face and is what everyone wants, and this is where our comparison to the "other box" comes into play,

We've ran this "other box" on our own golf R and another 2 2.0 TFSI's and what we have found is that the power delivery of this "other box" is very very similar to map 3, our original file, so if youre having issues with gear changes using the FSR+ and think that buy buying another box youre going to be a lot happier, then do yourself a favour and switch your box over to map 3..

So whats the difference between V3 and V4 software, (I'm sure i explained this somewhere but cant find the thread at this time)

Map 1 and map 3 are the same on V3 and V4,
Map 2 used to be a variant of map 1 with the quicker signal speeds, where as on V4 we've adjusted the signal speed and its now a compromise between map 1 and 3.

So to summarise, if youre running an FSR+ with a DSG car and youre having issues with gear changes then as mentioned above please try map 3 as this will give you a great comparison to the "alternative" or if you wish youre more than welcome to come to us and actually try this "other tuning box" for yourself

Anyone wanting to upgrade to V4 software, then this is free of charge so please contact direct to arrange this,

Thx for the update Andrew. I think its fantastic that you continue to improve and evolve your products and along with DTE actually listen to your customers.

Thumbs up chaps.

Regds
Jungle
 
Just to update I've now done about 600 miles with the MTM Cantronic fitted with a mix of motorway, around town and spirited driving. Car still drives perfect and not had a single hesitation/stutter or anything. The only problem now of course is that I've got used to the power and craving more... I will restrain myself until I get a new car next year :D

Have you ever thought about getting a Pedal Box to go with the MTM ? - http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...w-fitting-guide-–-audi-s3–-users-view.272708/
 
I wonder what the other tuning box is? The jb1 definitely isn't like map 3 so I'm intrigued

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I wonder what the other tuning box is? The jb1 definitely isn't like map 3 so I'm intrigued

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I thought the same, but the JB1 is quite a bit different.

Maybe it's the racechip??
 
Thx for the update Andrew. I think its fantastic that you continue to improve and evolve your products and along with DTE actually listen to your customers.

Thumbs up chaps.

Regds
Jungle

Cheers :) nothing in life is perfect, and I've read of a couple of remapped DSG cars suffering from the same issue, as well as other "boxes" having issues too
 
I'm manual and running 3 3+ I feel that it's the stronger map by far had a play at the weekend. Waiting for CTS inlet and outlet see how it goes from there.

Interesting. I too have a manual but find that 2 3+ is best for me. What attracts you to setting 3?
 
I'll post a review of the JB1 tuning box shortly, another one worth considering.

I'm very happy with it just need more time to test the custom mapping before doing a full review. Here is a quick run down if anyone is interested.

Pros.. Cheaper, can customise boost levels, adds fuel which avoids waiting for the STFT to kick in (in short you don't run lean like the DTUK does) and it also means DSG users don't get jerky changes, supports meth kits, update the firmware using a lead rather than sending it back.

Cons.. No direct power supply, quality of the wiring and box isn't as good as the DTUK, no direct UK support, no blanking plug (map 0 makes the car stock but the box is still attached)

interested. Sounds promising. look forward to your review.
 
I'll try and find time to do the JB1 review this weekend, love it though :)
 
Do you have the rest of this document? I'm interested in seeing how they find out. STFTs is my guess which shouldn't be a problem for the JB1 :)

I don't, sorry . That was the only image posted in the Audi S1 Owners Group on Facebook.
 
@Flatcap just seems to pull hard, I'm going to go back to 2 +3 at the weekend and see how it goes.
 

the key word here is "suspected"..

You can be suspected of a lot of things, but youre not guilty of anything until proven so..

The owner of DTE Systems GmbH (our supplier) has seen this document too, and his opinion is the same as mine..

Hi Andrew,
indeed interesting. The good point - is the little word „suspected“ (tuning with tuningbox).
The manufacturer will have a hard time to proof the difference between defect sensors doing strange things, and an attached tuningbox...
Cheers,
Michael
 
it looks like VAG has used an image of an MTM cantronic module in their bulletin, i wonder if this method is more "suspect" than the other method of connecting directly to the sensors

img_0891-jpg.42759
 
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