Hot hatch mega test

Soulboy · May 2, 2016

Buy what you like. It's your money.
But try not to be too critical of other people's preferences.

However, I am always sceptical with the majority of the motor press. Main interest is full on track performance in someone else's cars. No concern about residuals, reliability, comfort etc.
That doesn't sell magazines.

All IMO obviously.

Scottyg · May 2, 2016

The DSG/S-Tronic is deliberately slower on downshifts in auto mode as it is set up for fuel saving. If you take you feet off everything to slow down coming towards the end of a slip road you can still be in 6th gear as you roll nearly to a stop. Engine breaking isn't isn't used with the DSG/S-Tronic.

Kugaman1 · May 2, 2016

I will happily take the comments of RS3 owners who have also experienced the BMW.

The only background I had for my comments was my experience of driving Aberdeen Audis RS3 demo (the Nardo one thats STILL for sale 6 months after appearing on their approved used!!!!).

I remember writing on here that I wasnt keen on the lag in the car. I thought it was down to the turbo, but then after thinking more, I thought it was the gearbox.

It was just that floor it in fourth at around 60mph......wait.....boom away we go.
Never had anything like that in the m135i....that was floor it boom.....no delay whatsoever.

Thats where my DSG thoughts came from....but maybe it was a bit of turbo lag?

Kugaman1 · May 2, 2016

Found it....my thoughts at the time, literally a few hours after driving the rs3..

Kugaman1 said:
Stunning, useable amount of power, nice grippy feel on the road, but most of all, what amazing ride quality. The demo didnt have adaptive suspension, but the ride was excellent considering it was on 19"s. When the salesman told me it didnt have the adaptive, I was speechless.
The car made a serious impression on me.

The ONLY issue that I noticed with the car was that there was a little bit too much lag......not sure if its just down to the turbo spooling up or the DSG sorting its life out.....

What a car though......Im incredibly envious of anyone whos got one or is sat patiently waiting....

Terminator x · May 2, 2016

@Kugaman1 you're talking about auto changes then? In sport or normal? If in a hurry I don't bother with auto, just stick it in manual and as I say shifts are instant in either direction.

TX.

Kugaman1 · May 2, 2016

It was auto in dynamic....

Spaceman_RS3 · May 2, 2016

Auto in dynamic I find can be slow to catch up if you floor it and that's the gearbox sorting itself out kuga your right. I'm like tx into manual and go for it. Also the zf is sharper just pinning it in auto I agree

steeve · May 2, 2016

Lets face it the magazine gets adverts from all the manufacturers, the guys had all the cars at the same time which is something we cant possibly do. They are unlikely to own any of these models so are less biased than owners are bound to be. I haven't watched it yet, I'll do that tomorrow but even before I read the comments I knew that the RS3 would be taking an early bath. You cant overcome the laws of physics. I presume the new RS3 will get the all alloy engine? If so lets hope they can move it rearwards a little and it can become better balanced.
As far as oversteering on the limit some owners drive their cars harder than others and even on a slow S3 (?) the handling issues can easily be found on the road.
I love my S3, but I'm not blinded by it's shortcomings. I've resisted buying an RS3 so far because (personally) on the two long test drives I found it (just like the previous model) to be nose heavy, back to laws of physics again. Overall for me, and I've said this myriad times the S3 ticked more of the boxes. But it wasn't the best handling car of the various ones I tested, far from it in fact.

See the light....................

Terminator x · May 3, 2016

Hats off to the guys racing their cars on the road as if it was the racetrack. Perhaps you should have bought a Caterham?

TX.

msdmjb · May 3, 2016

Confirmed everything I think is dynamically wrong with a DSG S3/RS3 - handling isn't what it should be and DSG doesn't always do what it is told.

However as a daily middle aged man £30k proposition I still think a 3dr manual S3 is the way to go

Audi cannot hang on to superior interiors selling cars forever as others will catch up, as soon as I can get hold of a TTRS I will be trying it out to see if the things I don't like about my S3 have been resolved.

As for an extremely heavy 2.5 turbo (only producing 367bhp) being a masterclass............naturally aspirated ultra reliable 200bhp/litre are way more impressive. Owners need to be able to understand their cars flaws which I think is a common issue on here as people get way to emotional, doesn't make them bad cars just areas that could/should be improved in the face of stiff competition.

Satory · May 3, 2016

msdmjb said:
Audi cannot hang on to superior interiors selling cars forever as others will catch up.

Actually they probably can. I just bought my new S3 last week. I am 53 and have been retired 5 years now so insurance is low and the missus thought it would be nice to go buy a decent car. She rejected the Porsche Cayman because for being too ostentatious. I rejected the BMW 235 because it is ugly. She rejected the Merc A45 and A250 for being nasty inside (though I liked it). We both rejected the Jaguar XE because it is too big.

As goldilocks might have said though the S3 was just right so we bought a showroom model. We didn't test drive any of the cars and I don't give a b*ugger what they handle like. Would have bought a Lotus Elise if that was the be all and end all. Might still buy a Morgan three wheeler for laughs.

The S3 is the perfect blend of attributes for me and UK demographics point to there being more folk like me than there are track day enthusiasts. Audi will hang on just fine.

Simon L · May 3, 2016

Satory said:
Actually they probably can. I just bought my new S3 last week. I am 53 and have been retired 5 years now so insurance is low and the missus thought it would be nice to go buy a decent car. She rejected the Porsche Cayman because for being too ostentatious. I rejected the BMW 235 because it is ugly. She rejected the Merc A45 and A250 for being nasty inside (though I liked it). We both rejected the Jaguar XE because it is too big.

As goldilocks might have said though the S3 was just right so we bought a showroom model. We didn't test drive any of the cars and I don't give a b*ugger what they handle like. Would have bought a Lotus Elise if that was the be all and end all. Might still buy a Morgan three wheeler for laughs.

The S3 is the perfect blend of attributes for me and UK demographics point to there being more folk like me than there are track day enthusiasts. Audi will hang on just fine.

Completely agree with you mate.......................although I'd have to say the Mercs are also nasty on the outside!! lol

Jassyo06 · May 3, 2016

Something with either 297/367 bhp should be more capable on normal roads than they are, l only drove the RS3 on straight roads mainly, but l did notice it suffered the same fate my s3 does,no steering feel on turn in,my S3 doesn't install any confidence in myself when on the right pedal,understeer is awful and bobbles and bounces tragically on uneven roads. :blahblah1:

Simon L · May 3, 2016

jassyo06 said:
Something with either 297/367 bhp should be more capable on normal roads than they are, l only drove the RS3 on straight roads mainly, but l did notice it suffered the same fate my s3 does,no steering feel on turn in,my S3 doesn't install any confidence in myself when on the right pedal,understeer is awful and bobbles and bounces tragically on uneven roads.

.......should have bought the saloon mate................ :whistle2:

.............err, not a hatch though so off topic :busted cop:

msdmjb · May 3, 2016

[QUOTE="As goldilocks might have said though the S3 was just right so we bought a showroom model. We didn't test drive any of the cars and I don't give a b*ugger what they handle like. Would have bought a Lotus Elise if that was the be all and end all. Might still buy a Morgan three wheeler for laughs.

The S3 is the perfect blend of attributes for me and UK demographics point to there being more folk like me than there are track day enthusiasts. Audi will hang on just fine.[/QUOTE]

This has nothing to do with track days..............driving on a track allows you to safely explore (and repeat many times) the limits of the car in controlled conditions in the same way a deserted wet supermarket car park used to when I was a teenager

Some day on the road you might just be in the situation where you approach the limits and be thankful you are aware of the car's traits before you find them for the first time. Bear in mind I also drive an S3 and for the way I use mine most of the time is a good car yet I can easily show anybody who is interested where it lacks a bit - the S3/RS3 are good just a little compromised to be really good.

However, emotion aside you have bought an S3 yet claim to not care about how it handles. Therefore Audi has an issue, they have set up a sporty end to each range (S/RS) but some purchasers aren't interested in what should be the USP of the model.................thus Audi might do OK but the brand of S/RS is diluted and ultimately the Audi brand isn't as strong as it could be. I suspect and really hope the TTRS will be trying to address this, if it is not I will not be buying another Audi.

I have no beef with anybody on here and thank goodness we are all different, maybe it is just different people expect different things from their car. For me an S/RS/AMG/M with 300bhp+ should be significantly dynamically better than the rest of the model range, hold its own against the competition and entertain those who do care about how their car handles otherwise what is the point of them, if it isn't there is a danger it is just a willy wagging exercise for how much money the owner has (or can borrow).

Audi should be concerned that in a mega hot hatch shoot out their S3 wasn't even there and the RS3 was removed first.

Simples.

Satory · May 3, 2016

Without a word of a lie.....

I was just reading this last post over my breakfast in Costa. Then popped a cross the road to M&S for a shop. As I parked up, a nice chap (about 60-ish) came over having just got out of his 64 plate Black A3. His engine size was debadged so I couldn't see it but he had some nice 19" wheels on it.

Ohh he said "that's an S3 isn't, it's the one with all the sporty bits and pieces right?" "Yes" I said. "Mine's due a change and I'm thinking of getting one of those. Can I just have a look at your boot? Just want to make sure it's the same size as mine".

So I showed him my boot space and duly pleased he set off intent on buying an S3.

So, we all have different priorities. (And not once did either of us waggle our willies).

WarwickL · May 3, 2016

msdmjb said:
This has nothing to do with track days..............driving on a track allows you to safely explore (and repeat many times) the limits of the car in controlled conditions in the same way a deserted wet supermarket car park used to when I was a teenager Some day on the road you might just be in the situation where you approach the limits and be thankful you are aware of the car's traits before you find them for the first time.
Simples.

There is so much more to being 'safe' on the road than car handling at 10/10ths.

Visibility, driving aids, car maintenance, tyre selection ....

Any car can be tracked to determine some failings and the driver then aware of those on the road and drive accordingly.

However, taking a car on the track does not highlight all failings of a particular car and track reviews like the one mentioned are virtually worthless to the driver other than for entertainment (which, after all, is what that video was all about).

As has been said many times, the S3/RS3 are designed to suit those wanting luxury with some style in a good performance vehicle. If the handling upsets you, you have a range of modifications available to resolve most if not all failings.

There is not one car in that video besides the RS3 I would own and I suspect there are many others that feel the same way. It isn't a badge snob thing, it is just the S3/RS3 deliver a great all round package.

God forbid we all listen to that video and buy based on the result.

Here is an Aussie take on the RS3 (with a one driver track shootout by an actual race driver).

Terminator x · May 3, 2016

"Fantastic drivers cars"?! Clearly he needs to spend more time on here

TX.

hood · May 4, 2016

I don't get why there are guys on here though who own these cars and then incessantly criticise them. If I owned a car that I thought was so dynamically poor I would be switching asap especially as evidently there are lots of better cars in that niche.I am not criticising someone for preferring another car but just don't understand why they would keep the inferior one.

steeve · May 4, 2016

As it's all been said before (yawn) people buy cars for differing reasons, there's probably nothing out there that's perfect. An F40 didn't have a radio or interior trim, so that ruled it out for most people, irrespective of cost.
Buying a car is a very personal thing. I did try all the cars which apparently ticked my boxes. I knew the S3 was flawed in certain areas but it was, for me the best compromise. I just love it and will probably keep it some years. I'm not an S3 knocker, I bought one.
If I was in the same position I would make the same choice again, although not Sepang!!!
When the desire takes me I do drive 'spiritedly' that's why I looked at what I felt were performance cars. However just because I bought an S3 doesn't mean I think the sun shines out of its exhaust pipes. I accept its flaws, of which there are a few. I'm always amazed at those that feel the S3 is perfect and cant bear to think it's not perfect. I suppose the RS3 is the same where owners cry foul when it doesn't do well in what would seem an unbiased competitive road test. These really are supposed to be 'performance cars' but obviously some owners don't use much of their potential and wont ever get to a point where they can tell that some aspects are not quite what they should be, and that's fine.
But many owners will find it difficult to get to the point on the road where the S3's steering and handling could be better (without breaking the speed limits), and that's not 'racing'. Who in their right minds would race on public roads, apart from it being illegal.
But surely Audi could make a car which has steering and handling as good as a Golf GTi or a Clio? Is that asking too much? It wouldn't half make a good car a great car, if even if some of you wouldn't notice.
I don't consider myself as keeping an inferior car, as has been mentioned there are myriad reasons why we buy a particular car, it does have flaws but on balance it still comes to the top of my list. But as you hopefully see I'm not blinded to its imperfections they just take a little of the shine off.

Terminator x · May 4, 2016

I couldn't give a flying **** whether it does well in a test or not. I test drove one, bought one, drove it for 6 months and continue to enjoy it every day. It's the best car I've ever owned and that's coming from fast versions of Peugeot, Honda and Subaru.

I don't know if it comes across when I post

but this place I so ******* negative that someone has to enhance the positive aspects otherwise we'd all be topping ourself considering how **** the cars are.

TX.

Foxtrot_Oscar · May 4, 2016

No such thing as the perfect car, the same as there are no perfect mass produced products any where on the planet. I don't mind people discussing the flaws they find with their RS/S3's as it helps us all gauge what may or may not be an issue for us. There are a few who take it too far, but we all get to know who they are and we don't have to read their thoughts if we don't want to. I really like my S3, it was a good choice for what I wanted and I don't find any major issues with it. But it's not perfect and it has needed warranty work and problem solving for a few minor issues. But again, it is a mass produced product from a production line, you get good and bad examples and they are all built to a price point so Audi makes money to continue.
Choosing a car is a personal thing as well. Some buy without even test driving - I can't get my head around that one as it goes against how I decide to buy a car, but if that's what people want to do then fine. I tend to find that a good long test drive on roads you drive every day gives you enough to make the correct decision (I insist on at least a 24hr drive after the initial accompanied run out if I like the car enough and I am seriously considering it - would never waste a dealers time). I drive all the competing models before making a decision to take at least two on longer test drives. I recently tested the new FL AMG A45. It was a better handling and more planted drive around the twisty roads than both my S3 and the RS3, but, it let itself down badly in other areas which ruled it out for me personally. But I would always concede it is a great handling car. I'm sure the Focus RS is also a great car for the money, but to me personally I couldn't get away with the brash looks, and the same for the Type R. I would never buy any French car after two nightmares I had back in the '90s and the Golf - well it's a good car no doubt, just not for me.
Would I have an RS3 - you bet and just waiting on the PI details and order book reopening because it has everything I want at this moment in time.

Terminator x · May 4, 2016

@steeve so you acknowledge that you don't race on the road, can you confirm then that your S3 understeers like a pram in the rain at those speeds?

TX.

WarwickL · May 4, 2016

I've whinged about a few things with the S3 and most if not all are noted by others.

They would be non issues on a Hyundai, well maybe a Holden/Vauxhall.

However, this is Audi and most of my issues with the S3 shouldn't happen.

When it comes to handling and such, I'm more forgiving as I just don't drive hard enough for them to be a concern.

Nevertheless, on an S3 and most definitely an RS3, Audi should have done better. Especially when lesser VAG cars do it better.

I don't mind people being negative about the S3/RS3, we have all spent a lot of cash on these cars and for some of us, at or beyond our means as we are passionate about them.

I just use the ignore function for the one person I don't want to listen to, finding them ridiculously negative and just trolling.

Terminator x · May 4, 2016

I also have one person on ignore which helps keep my blood from boiling over every day!

TX.

Jassyo06 · May 4, 2016

I've been Trolling the RS3 new and car section's on the lnternet for a good while ,cheapest £38,500 9k miles with a few cosmetic options,most expensive ones £50,000 these are literally new, Audi will release them from there demonstrator phase come July so they will drop a grand or 2 at the very most.....the used RS3 market appears very stagnant indeed they ain't shifting them,even cars coming up for a year old are still in there low £40k and have been up for sale well over 6 months Glasgow Audi have a Racing Mica blue one,cracking spec it will be released for sale come July,it's worth a view in my opinion to check it come then...and yeah l might consider a used one if they can come and go a little.

Sorry wrong thread lol but hey ho

Ignition1 · May 4, 2016

I think the RS3 wins just based on the noise!!!

On a serious point - isn't it strange how the A3 is rated, along with the Golf, as being the best hatchback in the market yet the S3 or RS3 are such "disappointments". It feels like reviewers (and buyers) forget just how good the A3 is - practicality, ride, interior - when they're reviewing the S3 / RS3.

A Megane RS is "fantastic", yet the non-RS Megane is not worth buying...??? The Focus RS is a game changer yet the Focus itself is dull and has a tacky interior.

If you're going to review a car - then consider what that car was based on, and look at every aspect - not just how much it under-steers.

Pickle1970 · May 4, 2016

But the review/test was based on the hot versions, of which need to be quick, responsive, agile (insert whatever description you want) and I guess the S3 and RS3 don't deliver against the others?

Jassyo06 · May 4, 2016

Pickle1970 said:
But the review/test was based on the hot versions, of which need to be quick, responsive, agile (insert whatever description you want) and I guess the S3 and RS3 don't deliver against the others?

Middle Aged-Mid Life Crisis cars...that's why lol the rest are aimed at different age group...well mostly

pburv · May 4, 2016

jassyo06 said:
Middle Aged-Mid Life Crisis cars...that's why lol the rest are aimed at different age group...well mostly

I suppose 43 is the age of mid life crisis......?
Thanks for reminding me Jassy..... :whistle2:

When I reach your age at least I could look forward to getting an RS3....lol
Just kidding mate.... :friends:

Simon L · May 4, 2016

jassyo06 said:
Middle Aged-Mid Life Crisis cars...that's why lol the rest are aimed at different age group...well mostly

I think it's called taste mate, not everyone is obsessed with driving their car to the limit.......... :whistle2:

steeve · May 4, 2016

terminator x said:
@steeve so you acknowledge that you don't race on the road, can you confirm then that your S3 understeers like a pram in the rain at those speeds?

TX.

I don't race on the road, please check the definition of the word RACE. I enjoy driving quickly but safely, I don't do' competitive in my car or on my motorbike, some body wants to 'have a go', I'll slow down indicate left and allow them to safely overtake, then they can continue in the manner they choose.

But when conditions allow, when I'm on my own and the roads are clear (I live in the country) I sometimes drive quickly. I wouldn't say the S3 understeers like a pram, where did you get that impression? It's a very capable car, and you may remember me saying overall I love it. I would still buy another. However I'm not so infatuated as I cant see it has issues. Not enough to make me sell it and buy something else though. But on the undulating country roads where I live I'd easily say my Edition 30 GTI that I had some time ago was quicker point to point. Even quicker than my Prodrive STI. But the S3 is better overall than either of them.

The things I would like to see Audi fix are firstly the way the car pitches giving me the feeling it's about to bounce itself into the nearest ditch, it doesn't do this so much on smooth flat roads, but is quite pronounced on undulating B roads (many other owners have noticed this issue too). Provide more steering feel so you get feedback from the front wheels and lastly reduce the understeer, which is much more pronounced in the wet but too easy to reach in the dry.

Nothings perfect, as some one else already said, but Audi could easily fix these things at no cost. There are many cars out there that have the poise that the S3 doesn't, why on earth couldn't Audi make it drive round corners even as good as the Golf R? Perhaps, as others have said in the past Audi do tend to spend far too much time thrashing round the Ring, I've seen them. They have the ability to make a truly great car even better.

I would refute that I'm slagging the S3 or any Audi off (I've had a few), its a great car, the one I chose to spend my own hard earned cash on after many months driving loads of other performance cars. I have a choice what I spend my money as do many of us. I respect every ones right to spend their cash on whatever they wish, I also appreciate that not every one wants to drive quickly enough that they ever see the pitch and understeer. No ones wrong. No ones right. Please don't get all worked up because I have my own opinion, I respect yours.

Terminator x · May 4, 2016

I'm not getting worked up and yours is a well thought out reply. Many on here and I thought you commented on the understeer. My rs3 does not understeer on the road, fact. I can't believe that the s3 does either at road speeds.

TX.

Jassyo06 · May 4, 2016

terminator x said:
I'm not getting worked up and yours is a well thought out reply. Many on here and I thought you commented on the understeer. My rs3 does not understeer on the road, fact. I can't believe that the s3 does either at road speeds.

TX.

lt ****** well does at any roundabout

Satory · May 4, 2016

terminator x said:
I'm not getting worked up and yours is a well thought out reply. Many on here and I thought you commented on the understeer. My rs3 does not understeer on the road, fact. I can't believe that the s3 does either at road speeds.

TX.

My S3 doesn't seem to understeer noticeably at legal speeds. Early days for me but I did get a chance to try and provoke it on Sunday in the rain. Dual carriageway, 60 limit, quiet road and a nice sized roundabout to u-turn on. In on the brake at 7 o'clock, power on early at 9 o'clock, expecting to have to correct under-steer at 2 o'clock ish but if anything the car tucked in a bit and I had to wind-off a little bit of lock (wife felt it too). 20 years ago I would have doubled back for another try but nowadays I more interested in keeping my licence intact. I doubt I'll be driving it fast enough to feel the handling issues at the limits.

Ignition1 · May 5, 2016

Pickle1970 said:
But the review/test was based on the hot versions, of which need to be quick, responsive, agile (insert whatever description you want) and I guess the S3 and RS3 don't deliver against the others?

Reviewing the "hot" version shouldn't mean ignoring the other qualities. This review seemed to be about what's best on the track - and if I want a track car then I'd get a Caterham!

They quickly eliminated the RS3, Golf R and several others just based on the track. Then they took the winners OFF the track and started giving them a real test.

Naturally they will choose the cheapest and fastest car as the winner, no surprise there. But just because a car is cheap and fast doesn't make it a good hot car to buy. If you gave someone £40k and said choose from these hot hatch cars I would bet money that - despite the results of this test - 90% would get the A45, RS3 or M135i.

Most owners would use their hot car to drive to Tesco for their weekly shop, or to a friend's house for a dinner party. So having perfect 50/50 weight distribution, trick differentials and track-day suspension doesn't matter. In those situations it's all about looks, sound, straight-line speed, brand image and interior quality. They overlooked the "everyday use" situation - although they sort of covered it in the 2nd half of the test.

In fairness they're being objective about it all, but unfortunately that meant they ignored a HUGE factor - brand desirability.

WarwickL · May 5, 2016

If I wanted a track car it would be an Ariel Atom (they import them here)

However, anyone that blindly believes Audi couldn't have done better with the S3 and especially the RS3, even for road use, has owner blindness

msdmjb · May 5, 2016

WarwickL said:
However, anyone that blindly believes Audi couldn't have done better with the S3 and especially the RS3, even for road use, has owner blindness

Spot on, the problem is though a lot of people are too (insert suitable word here) by their purchase they lose objectivity. All this cr4p about road speeds...........where is the road speed? German autobahn (S3 front ends lifts at very high speed) or middle of nowhere rural France doing 40mph around a 30mph corner.......? Any wet roundabout at less than 40mph the S3 can be made to understeer, not dangerous and easily dealt with but Audi engineers know how to do it and chose not to. Just because somebody doesn't get that doesn't make them any less of an owner or person.

Not a criticism at all of any owner (we all have our reasons, it is a very well built very subtle gentlemans express) but as the type of car any S/RS is advertised it should have been better when pushed.

Dazzeroo · May 5, 2016

The review of these cars is flawed simply because they are road cars and they were tested and evaluated based on their performance on a track before conducting the road test. The only redeeming element here is that they were all tested under the same conditions.

CraigI · May 5, 2016

msdmjb said:
Spot on, the problem is though a lot of people are too (insert suitable word here) by their purchase they lose objectivity. All this cr4p about road speeds...........where is the road speed? German autobahn (S3 front ends lifts at very high speed) or middle of nowhere rural France doing 40mph around a 30mph corner.......? Any wet roundabout at less than 40mph the S3 can be made to understeer, not dangerous and easily dealt with but Audi engineers know how to do it and chose not to. Just because somebody doesn't get that doesn't make them any less of an owner or person.

Not a criticism at all of any owner (we all have our reasons, it is a very well built very subtle gentlemans express) but as the type of car any S/RS is advertised it should have been better when pushed.

This and a lot of this.
Claiming that reviews don't bother them in the slightest, but at the same time posting double figures in a review thread to blindly defend their car.

I do think though that us Audi drivers, just get used to lifeless, poor, unexciting handling and lose a bit of our desire, passion and love of driving.
You get into a cycle of pcp that drags you deeper and deeper in and the best way to get the best money for your current car is to again accept a slightly inferior product to the competitors.

I'm personally on my last Audi, which was a means to an end in any case. Will keep the wife's, but I'm waiting for whenever the new Renaultsport Megane comes in and reinvigorating my love for driving.

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