Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Any ieas how much here ?

That's a significant amount of rotation


I'm not sure on the exact caster value currently, I've simply tried to even it out side to side.

based on some info I gathered over the weekend I'm going to be adding a little more camber and reducing caster a little.

@badger5 - after a bit of a wobbly start, I'm pleased to report the knock light worked well once I got to grips with it's operation. Thanks very much :)

Thanks also to all who gave me help and advise when wiring it in.

I still hate electrics :laugh:
 
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So, I should probably get round to writing a bit about Donington!

After a busy day on Friday, putting the car back together and loading up, Dad and I hit the road, with Andy in convoy in the support van.

We hit the road around half 4, and arrived at our hotel just before 8.

Andy got a cool view all the way up:





Our view wasn't quite so cool, but we returned the favour with a picture anyway :laugh:



We met up at the hotel with AdamR, Rich, Kelly, and Alex, then headed off to a local Indian for a curry. We met SteveC and Paul there, and were soon joined by Ste who showed up a little late after some horrendous traffic.

Great food and a few beers done, we all retired to the hotel for bed, ready for the next day :)
 
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I woke up bright and early, and set off on the hunt for a car wash. I'd not had time to wash the car before we left, and it was looking FILTHY:



No joy - google was useless for help, so I drove around randomly, and decided like Long Eaton sounded like a big enough place to find a jet wash - It wasn't. total fail.

Back to the hotel to grab dad, and we set off on the short Journey to Donington.

Usually we go in at the main entrance, and have to drive over about a thousand speed bumps to get to the paddock area. We we approached, we came up behind NickD towing his Road Runner SR2, so decided to follow him instead to the simple paddock entrance, much better!



At this point, my picture taking skills gave out. Thankfully Rich took a few of on some early laps still using the A048's:

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To be continued when I've left work and gone home......

:racer:
 
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So,

At this point, I'm sure I'm expected to say something about the changes I've made over winter. most namely, the big change to the Emerald K6 ECU.

This would be the first time it was used on track - we were excited to see how it went!

Dad drove the sighting laps, to help him get a feel for the car and track again. Sighting laps are slow laps in procession, so nothing strenuous. Just getting a feel for the car and track again.

With the sighting laps done, I jumped in for the first session when the track went green.

Low boost, A048's, and I headed out.

All felt good on the opening lap, so I upped the pace a little.

The car felt good, but around half way round my second lap I was confronted with something I've only seen once before on track - my EGT warning alarm BRIGHT BLUE Light!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not ideal. The alarm only goes off when the probe reads a sustained 900 or higher for more than 10 seconds.

I backed off and came into the pits, and the peak recall function showed we had seen a peak EGT of 931 degrees.

Feck :scared2:

Now, what's changed?

On reflection, quite a lot, and it should have been expected.

On the old setup:

Boost at the top end was 17-18 psi - not huge.

AFR at the top end was nearly as low as 10:1 - LOTS of fuel cooling - too much really. Killing power.

Timing on the old map was 25 degrees - lots of advance means cooler EGT's.

On the new map:

Boost at the top end is 22psi - quite a bit more boost = more heat

AFR at the top end was around 11.8:1 - Still a nice safe rich for track use, but nowhere near as much unburnt fuel doing cooling duties.

Timing on the new map was around 20 degrees - Bill wanted the setup to be 100% safe, and was hearing early signs of Knock beyond 20 degrees on the dyno.

So - the new map is excellent. it's much better to drive, on road and on track, but through being more efficient it's highlighting the limits of the setup when pushed to the max - it simply runs too hot.

I had the choice of risk it running hot, or get the laptop out and make some changes myself to see if I could bring temps down.

This is the beauty of standalone - changes are so easy to make and test immediately.

First up, I upped the fuelling to bring AFR down to around 11:1, and I added a cheeky 2 degrees of timing.

I've got the knock light installed now, so I'm able to listen for knock and know if I'm pushing timing too far.

We headed out with the new maps loaded on, and started building up pace. I was happy to report that no EGT warning light came on, and EGT's seemed to hover around the high 800's. Peaking at 898 that session.

Despite adding 2 degrees of timing, I still had no knock showing on the KnockLink, so I decided to be brave and added another 2 degrees of timing for the next session, bringing it up to 24 degrees in total. I also took 4% off the top end boost duty to give the turbo a tiny bit of a break at the very top end. This lowered peak boost to around 21psi from a previous 22.5.

I headed back out, and to my delight EGT's were now down into the ~860 range, which is pretty much where they used to be on the old ECU. I had a VERY occasional flicker from the knock light at around 6800 rpm, but not every time, and very much not sustained, just a single flash once a lap or so.

I'm aware that ~860 in the DP is still hot, but it's around the temp it's run at for the last 3 years, so I'm happy to be back in familiar territory.

With that sorted, and a few sessions under our belt, it was time to make the change to slicks.

The A048's are good - very good. In terms of lap times there isn't a huge difference to the slicks, but there's something about the way the car turns in and feels on slicks that just makes everything else feel rubbish.



We headed out onto the track to get the slicks up to temp:

BigAl as passenger here looking as cool as ever :sunglasses:

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Envious of your ability to adapt the ECU... One day, one day! Cars looking good too, I'm surprised the slicks are no faster though, do you think they will be once you start getting used to pushing the limits?

Little question regarding airbags, I assume you removed them all, did you just use resistors on them all, or were you able to remove the whole system, airbag ECU included and write the airbags out with vagcom? (Or maybe you just run with the airbag light on?!)

I also wouldn't mind your input on harness mounting at some point, but don't want to clog up your build thread!!
 
Really good that you can make changes like this to optimize the performance. Soon you will be tweaking the map based on weather conditions and track dependent on the amount of full throttle. In the long term should make the car more reliable and consistent. Seen some of the videos on Club GTI of you hunting down a slightly wounded Nige
 
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Envious of your ability to adapt the ECU... One day, one day! Cars looking good too, I'm surprised the slicks are no faster though, do you think they will be once you start getting used to pushing the limits?

Little question regarding airbags, I assume you removed them all, did you just use resistors on them all, or were you able to remove the whole system, airbag ECU included and write the airbags out with vagcom? (Or maybe you just run with the airbag light on?!)

I also wouldn't mind your input on harness mounting at some point, but don't want to clog up your build thread!!

If I'm honest, the slicks ARE faster, just not by the enormous margin many people expect. In the condition we get them, maybe ~2s per lap typically. According to the race teams, the slicks lose around 2s per lap after their first heat cycle. This is the cliff they speak of in the races where the tyres have 'gone off'. At this point they're sold to people like me, who still get plenty of use from them, but never experience the tyres full potential!

I'll try and get some laps on video at Combe on A048's in 2 weeks time and some on slicks to give a true comparison.

Ask away with regards to airbags mate, and harness mounts. Don't worry about clogging the thread up :)

In my case I removed all the airbags, and the control module, and then just taped over the resulting light. At some point this year I intend to strip back the loom and remove all the wiring back to the fuse box also, but that's a fair way down the ever growing 'to do list'

Really good that you can make changes like this to optimize the performance. Soon you will be tweaking the map based on weather conditions and track dependent on the amount of full throttle. In the long term should make the car more reliable and consistent. Seen some of the videos on Club GTI of you hunting down a slightly wounded Nige

It's amazing having the ability to adapt it all at my own will. I was able to drive it, look at what was going on, make a few changes to try and address the issues, then test and tweak again, and keep going until I had it where I wanted it, and with the AFR, EGT, and knock systems I have I've now got all the info I need to ensure it's safe.

Laps behind Nige were great fun, although sadly in the video he was on semis and I was on slicks, hence it being fairly easy to keep up.

We both had laps on slicks later in the day, but never at the same time. We've compared lap times etc since though, and it's all good news :) we should have a LOT of fun next time we're both on track together.

Here are just a few pics:

I think this is entering McLeans:



The traditional Craner Curves shot:#



And an awesome shot of Dad somehow staring straight down the camera lens whilst driving!

 
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In my case I removed all the airbags, and the control module, and then just taped over the resulting light. At some point this year I intend to strip back the loom and remove all the wiring back to the fuse box also, but that's a fair way down the ever growing 'to do list'

Thanks dude, that's pretty much answered my question then, i was concerned that the car may not start without the Airbag ECU connected (Assuming the TT is the same!). I like the tape solution... far less effort then paying someone to code it out!

Regarding the harnesses, i've sorted out the AS belt mounting eye's now, i'm just concerned as to whether the existing seatbelt mount point on the door side 'cill' is okay with an eyelet screwed in? Is this what you have done, or did you find a better mounting method?
 
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Thanks dude, that's pretty much answered my question then, i was concerned that the car may not start without the Airbag ECU connected (Assuming the TT is the same!). I like the tape solution... far less effort then paying someone to code it out!

Regarding the harnesses, i've sorted out the AS belt mounting eye's now, i'm just concerned as to whether the existing seatbelt mount point on the door side 'cill' is okay with an eyelet screwed in? Is this what you have done, or did you find a better mounting method?

You can actually code it out yourself very easily if you have vcds
 
Loving the recent updates Nick!
I wish I could have made it!
Hopefully be joining you shortly!!
 
I know mines not been on the road yet but when I just turned it on and idled it, I got no airbag light up on the dash, but I removed all the related wiring and control module/ecu.
 
Will VCDS lite work? I just found out yesterday the ESP can be hard coded out with lite, that's a result! Have the program but never bought a lead

I believe so. Not 100% site what you can and can't do with the lite version
 
That's good to know then, sounds like either way it's not going to stop the car running which is of course the main thing! :sign hijacked:
 
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still not on page 200?!?!,!?!
gayyyyyy!!!!!!
glad to see you're already benefitting from the ecu!
car always looks fantastic on the track.
wish I'd started with an a3.
grrrr :(
 
I'll message you on Facebook mate I'm losing the will to live :(
 
The car was supreme and spitting flame at Castle Combe Spring Action Day today.

Great to meet you Prawn .

20160402 155017


Prawn has a Coke habit whilst his associate does a great impression of Dorian Yates .

2016 04 02 231155
 
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What were IAT's like before and after changes?

Any idea what max boost do the ko4-064 track cars usually run in the newer cars?
 
Just shooting the sh*t here but curious.

My TFSi leon is 20-22psi on track days.

All things being equal (I know they are not) would you expect the 1.8t to able to ingest the same G/S of air as the Leon given it has 10% less displacement.
The VE of prawns motor has not significantly increased from factory configuration.
As far as I'm aware there's addition of AGN camshafts but no oversized valves, porting or large throttle body/intake manifold.
 
Just shooting the sh*t here but curious.



All things being equal (I know they are not) would you expect the 1.8t to able to ingest the same G/S of air as the Leon given it has 10% less displacement.
The VE of prawns motor has not significantly increased from factory configuration.
As far as I'm aware there's addition of AGN camshafts but no oversized valves, porting or large throttle body/intake manifold.
expected airflow into power calc from injested airflow does not change on tfsi to 1.8t from the ones I see regularly which suggests ve are similar
 
put a coombe post up you idiot
 
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Drove fast
Car looked good
Got evicted from the track mid afternoon under questionable circumstances
Went home
Had a Chinese

Mixed emotions



Thanks for asking :laugh:
 
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Not your fault, I saw the proof!
I was, and I am still furious. The track management need to get a grip on what can happen in racing conditions. ( ( I know it wasn't a race but the speed was comparable ). The red fag was not visible until Nicholas was on the corner. The man waving the flag was wearing a red top. The cars entering the corner obscure vision of the red flag. ( MAN AT GROUND LEVEL) The flag was waved in a stupid figure of eight manner which means that most of the flags surface area is not visible to the approaching car. A simple left to right movement, square on to the approaching cars would be seen better by all, as would raising the '"Marshall '" on a platform. (Rocket science apparently ). Many of the Marshals posts approaching the corner were unattended, and the last one had his arm's crossed. The red lights were working on the approach, but there was something in the region of a two second interval , between on and off.. Only one light out of two working which suggests that you can look at the light and it's off, two seconds later and some 90 metres further on before it comes on again. Several other cars cornering at the same time were not flagged. .??? In general there was a shortage of " Marshalls" ,sounds like penny pinching to me. A really good day ruined by bad management and perhaps expertise. Where have I heard that before . I doubt this is the end of the rant
 
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From what I've seen, if there's no red flag before that corner, then damn right you wouldn't have seen it, bit of a stupid place to have a flag at all, on the outside of a corner (because we all focus on the outside when hitting those apex's!). Definitely needed a red flag before the corner for safety reasons!

In a bit of an off topic, every video I've ever watched of Combe shows wayyyy to many cars on track at once for my liking! It's the only track I've seen where you can have 10+ cars hitting the same corner in a couple of seconds, do they oversubscribe events or is it just me??
 
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From what I've seen, if there's no red flag before that corner, then damn right you wouldn't have seen it, bit of a stupid place to have a flag at all, on the outside of a corner (because we all focus on the outside when hitting those apex's!). Definitely needed a red flag before the corner for safety reasons!

In a bit of an off topic, every video I've ever watched of Combe shows wayyyy to many cars on track at once for my liking! It's the only track I've seen where you can have 10+ cars hitting the same corner in a couple of seconds, do they oversubscribe events or is it just me??
There are two types of management. The GOOD ones listen and take suggestions on board to further better practice's. The other tossers adopt the mantra, we are always correct, we are THE management.
 
I'll take that as a hint to avoid Combe then!!:rulez:

Sounds like your both royally miffed with it, on to the next one, any booked?
 
So, as BigAl had alluded to, I 'missed' a red flag.

i don't for one minute believe the flag wasn't shown, it clearly was, but the position and manner in which the flag was shown were wholy inappropriate.

So, to elaborate, start by watching this clip, which is aimed RIGHT at the Marshall, and makes it seem rather more obvious than it was.



Watch all the way through.......

So, to the in car:

1:05 on the time stamp, entering bobbies. Marshall post 12 on the left empty:



Time stamp 1:15, exiting bobbies, passing 3 slow cars on the left. Traffic light just vissible top left of the Clio, lights not illuminated:



A second later, time stamp 1:16, same light still not illuminated:



Time stamp 1:20, I overtake the Clio. Marshall points 12 and 13 also empty.



Does the circle on the red look like s good idea for a flag location to you?

Time stamp 1:22, at the corner now and notice debris on the track. Still no clear flag on entry, VERY hard on the brakes not wanting to go round at full speed on debris:



Red flag man must be stick thin and waving the flag direct at me 'pole on', as this image shows, whilst you can see him in th external video, he's totally invisible from on the car!

Time stamp 1:23, flag man is now just about visible to those with 20:20, not that you should be looking over there at that point on the corner.
Traffic light head straight ahead still not showing any clear red. I'm told
These flash, but of they're flashing at such a low frequency, you could stare at them for a second and still not see a red light!



Half a second later at 1:24 I've slowed right down, traffic light still not apparent, and flag man obviously bored at half mast.



Clio chap behind me still hasn't seen the red, almost fails to stop behind me and gets very out of shape, then continues to power past me after the bend before seeing the first CLEAR red at the start line.

Result: I was banned the the remainder of the day. No prior warnings, no talking to, just instant dismissal with any option for discussion or reasoning.


Several others on the day had had multiple warnings, for missing flags, diving down the inside, and generally driving too aggressively. I'd stayed completely out of trouble, yet get evicted on the first offence.

I accepted their decision, and asked to discuss the position of the red flag from a safety point of view, but was told they were 'not prepared to enter into a debate with me'

So, there's the story. I did miss the flag, I can't deny that, but I believe the positioning of said flag, and the way the incident was dealt with? Was totally inappropriate.

At the time I had a que of 5 people, who'd all paid £20 to MM for a ride, I even brought this up with the track manager, who wasn't interested. He'd sooner see a charity refund £100 then go back on a bad decision!

Oh well!

I still had fun :)

I'll post the happier bits tomorrow!

:racer:
 
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That really is shocking!
The fact the red flag was actually AFTER the danger spot and on the exit of a corner is just crazy.

What was the issue? Oil on the track? Or was everybody spinning purely because of the stupid flag location and people letting of/braking mid corner?

You're lucky. That Clio nearly had you!

Sounds like the "management" really need to sort themselves out!
 
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