Under powered S3 stage 2+

S3-Iain

S3-Iain

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Hi, I'm looking for some suggestions and ideas to why my S3 is underpowered.

It's currently stage 2+ revo with the following mods:

Revo intake
Runner flap delete
Apr HPFP
Turbo back non res milltek with decat
NGK7 iridium spark plugs
Sach organic clutch and solid flywheel
PCV blanked

I had it dyno'd a few weeks back and it made 319bhp and similar torque.

Had a little play with my friends 313bhp focus and it pulled on me on the motorway.

The stage 2+ map I've got on the car is supposed to be making around 350-360bhp mark but I'm way down on that.

Services every 5k using nano drive 5w40 oil and the cars currently on 97k

I'm getting no warning faults other than the runner flap motor (because of the delete)

The car runs fine & feels like it pulls hard with no hesitations or missfire.

slight blue smoke from cold start but it's done that for the past few years since I put the decat on.

Any suggestions of things to check would be appreciated, I'm wanting to get a intercooler, discharge pipe and throttle pipe on the car soon but want to find out why it's down on power before I do that.

Thanks!
 
I've ran it on two, the first was ecotune in Buckley but not sure what dyno they have and the second was group b Motorsport in deeside and there using a dyno dynamics 4wd dyno but I have the haldex unplugged to dyno in FWD
 
You may have an issue but I think ultimately it'll be the Revo 2+ map.
It doesn't get near the Apr 2+ in output and that is around 360/370 bhp .
I know someone who changed from Revo to Apr for that reason and the difference was marked.
Dont forget the ST is only front wheel drive and so has less transmission losses.
 
Have you logged something like a 3rd gear WOT run via VCDS? This would show a lot of useful info and reduce guesswork as to the cause of the power loss, if that is what you are experiencing. Failing that, I'd be taking it to the tuner who applied the map and discussing the issues you are having.

Also, don't forget, your mate's Focus would not have the disadvantage of traction loss at motorway speeds and will benefit from lower overall weight. This is the reason rolling starts do not favour the quattro.
 
What turbo diverter valve are you running?
The newer revised lets air past on full boost, especially if your running on higher boost levels.
If you are running a revised D version? I would recommend the GFB DV+.
Or the other problem you may have is you have a atmospheric air type dump valve fitted such as forge, in my opinion these types of dump valve dont work well on the tfsi engines as these engines were designed to vent through the exhaust.
 
I've not logged anything as of yet it I might be worth me doing.

I understand about the power loss through the 4wd but if you forget about the focus, on the dyno my car is down on power compared to what it should be, around 30-40bhp down

The diverted I'm using is revision G I think, the part number is S06F145710G

Thanks
 
S3-Iain said:
I've not logged anything as of yet it I might be worth me doing.

I understand about the power loss through the 4wd but if you forget about the focus, on the dyno my car is down on power compared to what it should be, around 30-40bhp down

The diverted I'm using is revision G I think, the part number is S06F145710G

Thanks
Click to expand...
Have you pulled the dv out and checked? bet its split?
Everyone that is running mapped cars are running the GFB DV+, they are completely reliable. heres a link
DV+ Performance Diverter Range
And buy from here at AMD
GFB DV+ for VAG 2.0 TFSi & 1.8 TFSi models Golf / Leon / A3 / S3 / Octavia | eBay
 
Agree you need to log boost (requested and actual) to help pinpoint boost leaks and also fuel pressure (requested and actual) to see if the map is doing what it should be. Have you changed your fuel filter as 97k is a lot on the original one!
 
nluk100 said:
Agree you need to log boost (requested and actual) to help pinpoint boost leaks and also fuel pressure (requested and actual) to see if the map is doing what it should be. Have you changed your fuel filter as 97k is a lot on the original one!
Click to expand...
Didnt think the tfsi engines had fuel filters???
 
Yeah, the fuel filter was changed when I had the stg2+ map but on around 20k ago. I've replaced the diverter valve already but haven't checked it recently so I'll have a look at that tonight.

Just need to find somebody with VCDS now so I can do some logs and see what's going on.
 
S3-Iain said:
Yeah, the fuel filter was changed when I had the stg2+ map but on around 20k ago. I've replaced the diverter valve already but haven't checked it recently so I'll have a look at that tonight.

Just need to find somebody with VCDS now so I can do some logs and see what's going on.
Click to expand...
Problem with the rev g is it cant take the extra boost pressure and when on boost it it splits.
 
You get told so many different things my different people. I bought the Rev G because that's what some tuners told me is the best one for them. I'll look into getting one of the diverters from AMD. See if it makes a difference
 
S3-Iain said:
You get told so many different things my different people. I bought the Rev G because that's what some tuners told me is the best one for them. I'll look into getting one of the diverters from AMD. See if it makes a difference
Click to expand...
Yeah I know, out of the oem valves the rev g is the better one but prone to splitting, the rev d is more reliable and wont split but lets air past.
Trust me the boost on the GFB is brilliant, opens up longer and sooner, :welcoming: you wont be disappointed, AMD in Essex recommends fitting with any remap stage 3+.
 
I'll wait until payday and get one of them on order, I know a guy with vagcom so I'll try doing some logs this week aswel and see what boost pressure and fuel pressure it's requesting and receiving
 
S3-Iain said:
I'll wait until payday and get one of them on order, I know a guy with vagcom so I'll try doing some logs this week aswel and see what boost pressure and fuel pressure it's requesting and receiving
Click to expand...
Easy too do on a K04 aswell, tet us know how you get on. :racer:
 
A rev g diverter valve is most most tuners recommend, I had mine changed from a d to a g before r-tech stage 2+ mapping, they don't rate those GFB DV+ valves very highly, think there's a few quality control issues with them, were some work and some don't, you should be fine with a Rev g as long as the diaphragms not split
 
paul_zx6r said:
A rev g diverter valve is most most tuners recommend, I had mine changed from a d to a g before r-tech stage 2+ mapping, they don't rate those GFB DV+ valves very highly, think there's a few quality control issues with them, were some work and some don't, you should be fine with a Rev g as long as the diaphragms not split
Click to expand...
Maybe thats because they are not selling them, everyone on here is raving about them, the very early ones had a weak spring that they updated with a firmer one and they are now fine, there are no known failures.
 
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audismart said:
Maybe thats because they are not selling them, everyone on here is raving about them, the very early ones had a weak spring that they updated with a firmer one and they are now fine, there are no known failures.
Click to expand...

Have a look on the tfsi tuner Facebook page there's a few videos on there about them, they purchased a few DV+ valves to try as the springs had been changed like you say. Not sure everyone on here is raving about them, I'm perfectly happy with my Rev g.
 
nluk100 said:
All Audi engines have fuel filters - its just Audi don't ever mention when to change it. It's under the rear axle on the off-side.
Click to expand...
You know what, only last week I was looking to see when the service interval was for the fuel filter and could find it nowhere on the service book and I did think it strange, just googled it and there it is, guess what I will be doing in the warmer months. Cheers mate, giving me more work. :welcoming:
 
paul_zx6r said:
Have a look on the tfsi tuner Facebook page there's a few videos on there about them, they purchased a few DV+ valves to try as the springs had been changed like you say. Not sure everyone on here is raving about them, I'm perfectly happy with my Rev g.
Click to expand...
Show me a bad review?
 
Yeah like I said its the version with the weak spring that was revised in 2013.
I have looked on google for gfb failures and cant find any, only the older type with the weak spring, its all positive mate
 
S3-Iain said:
Hi, I'm looking for some suggestions and ideas to why my S3 is underpowered.

It's currently stage 2+ revo with the following mods:

Revo intake
Runner flap delete
Apr HPFP
Turbo back non res milltek with decat
NGK7 iridium spark plugs
Sach organic clutch and solid flywheel
PCV blanked

I had it dyno'd a few weeks back and it made 319bhp and similar torque.

Had a little play with my friends 313bhp focus and it pulled on me on the motorway.

The stage 2+ map I've got on the car is supposed to be making around 350-360bhp mark but I'm way down on that.

Services every 5k using nano drive 5w40 oil and the cars currently on 97k

I'm getting no warning faults other than the runner flap motor (because of the delete)

The car runs fine & feels like it pulls hard with no hesitations or missfire.

slight blue smoke from cold start but it's done that for the past few years since I put the decat on.

Any suggestions of things to check would be appreciated, I'm wanting to get a intercooler, discharge pipe and throttle pipe on the car soon but want to find out why it's down on power before I do that.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I would recommend changing from revo to either custom or apr map. I previously had revo 2+ on my s3, and on Rick's dyno it made 330bhp/torque. Thought i had boost leaks etc but there was nothing wrong with my car

I changed from revo to apr and there was a massive difference. Revo are a good company but the stage 2+ map hasn't been updated whereas apr has been updated to v3.4.

If your local to Rick drop him a message about a custom remap, you won't be disappointed. A friend of mine had ricks stage 2+ map and loved it. If not get an apr map.
 
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Iain,

you are about 10-11bhp down on what Revo Stage 2+ makes on a Dyno Dynamics.

First thing is to get a VCDS log. You need to log block 115 and 118 full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear from 2k to the limiter. This will tell up what your boost is doing.

Rick
 
Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. said:
Revo St2+ makes 330 max.
Click to expand...

-Ju- said:
You may have an issue but I think ultimately it'll be the Revo 2+ map.
It doesn't get near the Apr 2+ in output and that is around 360/370 bhp.
Click to expand...

S3_Sanni said:
I previously had revo 2+ on my s3, and on Rick's dyno it made 330bhp/torque. I changed from revo to apr and there was a massive difference. Revo are a good company but the stage 2+ map hasn't been updated whereas apr has been updated to v3.4.
Click to expand...

Wow that's crazy that the APR Stage 2+ makes over 30bhp more than the Revo map, glad I've seen this as when the day finally comes I'll definitely be going with APR now. It's bad that on Revo's website they state their Stage2+ can reach 370bhp when people have only been getting 330bhp!

I know it's about drive-ability of the car rather than numbers but they shouldn't be allowed to overstate their figures like that, especially when charging premium prices!

I'm just double checking that the following link is for the Audi S3 8P1 2.0 TFSI K04 engine: http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/ecu_upgrade_20tfsi_trans_r.html? If so I see that they do a Stage 1+ which is cool, as saving up for Stage 2+ is going to take me while!
 
APR have put a lot of work into their 8P maps recently,and seem to have scored some results,whereas revo kind of let it go a bit.

As you can see there is a bit of the dyno lottery in terms of results,but as Rick says,the important thing is not neccessarily outright figures,but trends,and that shows that overall,APR are in the lead bhp wise.
From what I know from before,they tend to push the timing a bit more,and maybe this is where they've made some gains.

I would also add that custom mapping from reliable tuners such as Rick is the way to go right now....I moved away from mainstream software/ECU hardware a year ago and the difference is amazing.
 
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Yeah, my end result it wanting a map from r-tech but wanted to get to the bottom of why it's down before I spent more money on it. I'm still contemplating going TTE420 with it before I get a map. Aslong as I find the fault or if it is just the Revo map and the cars ok I'll be happy to keep spending money for the other bits and a custom map
 
Oh that's a bit **** about Revo, i went on the chatter that Revo stg2+ was 350/360 also. I have Revo Stg2+ and the moment it was remapped i never believed for one minute my car was pushing close to 360 :( this confirms it. I feel robbed wish i had gone APR also. Im also on my original clutch till (63kmiles dont laugh!) about a few more weeks when i have the funds to fit a Sachs, and it only slips on frosty mornings. Hopefully it wont disintegrate before then as i do rag it just about everywhere.

Good thread Iain i hope you get to the bottom of your troubles keep us posted!
 
mephisto said:
Oh that's a bit **** about Revo, i went on the chatter that Revo stg2+ was 350/360 also. I have Revo Stg2+ and the moment it was remapped i never believed for one minute my car was pushing close to 360 :( this confirms it. I feel robbed wish i had gone APR also. Im also on my original clutch till (63kmiles dont laugh!) about a few more weeks when i have the funds to fit a Sachs, and it only slips on frosty mornings. Hopefully it wont disintegrate before then as i do rag it just about everywhere.

Good thread Iain i hope you get to the bottom of your troubles keep us posted!
Click to expand...

Don't be too upset....the basic software works well,and won't wreck your car.
I ran revo software from Stg1 through to Stg4,and really the only issue I can complain about was the lack of updates to the software.

I think competition in the market is a very healthy thing,and drives companies to do better,and not to take their eyes off the ball(or customer).

Mine always produced results roughly in line with what it should have done,i.e.350-360bhp at Stg2+,and having had more powerful cars previously,to be honest those figures felt right,and were validated against other cars set up elsewhere.
The other point is that the difference between 350bhp and 380bhp at 7000rpm is about 8% at peak rpm,and few of us will ever use that,but what does matter is torque delivery,and how much of that can be used before the poor old turbo runs out of puff.
 
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S3Alex said:
Mine always produced results roughly in line with what it should have done,i.e.350-360bhp at Stg2+
Click to expand...

What mods did you have on your S3 when you had it mapped to Stage 2+?
 
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