Bobby Singh A4 3.0 TDI build thread

I know what you mean that's why I have switched to a hybrid, quite a good improvement from standard with the stock hardware. I would dial back the requested a bit if it's unable to meet the specified by that much the pump must be truly maxed out.
In my experience it seems you can usually get 30-35% gains easily with a map and a few other tweaks. 50% comes with a turbo change. After that it starts getting quite expensive and not where most people would be going.
But you would know that anyway after your Golf Build. Looks like a hybrid and a HPFP on the list if you want any further improvements.
 
December 2015 - Bosch CP3

Christmas break fun..

Next task was to source a fuel pump that would be able to supply enough fuel without causing rail pressure drop.
After considering different Bosch pumps - I went with Bosch CP3. The pump is fitted to some early V6 models.
I managed to get all the required parts from a car that was being broken. Pump, gear, bracket, belt etc

E1nu47T.jpg


Got M12 adapters for the fuel lines:

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With some luck the bracket mounted nicely, but I had a issue with finding a gear that would keep the belt tight

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All mounted up but the M12 90deg was a little tall

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Ended up purchasing OEM feed and return

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Finally got the CP3 working after some more tweaking in the tune.
Now I can inject close to 100mg in the mid range without rail pressure drop :)
The first generation of V6 that used the CP3 pump only had 0.5 bar feed pressure so with 4bar feed pressure we have a excellent start.
 
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Nice ! 100mg in the midrange should make 350 Bhp easily ! It seems to me there's a rule there: 1st run of models have the most power output potential, less stringent emissions and better build quality. On Later ones they somewhat dilute the essence and use electronic trickery to please the punters... Well done Bobby !
 
Hi Chris - 350hp with stock 2260 is out of limits.
I have more torq with 100mg in the midrange for sure.

Yep the early pumps were better made for performance etc but later things like cost, noise and more important having such a over specc'ed pump for say 225hp means its wasted money for Audi.

I'll have more interesting stuff to post soon ;)

Cheers
 
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Looking Good Bobby, Later pumps more aimed at emissions and fuel economy than out and out performance I think. Higher pressure but lower volume and a modified way of operating to reduce the amount of energy required to run the pump.
What kind of pressure will the CP3 deliver ?. I know the CP1H on mine is 1600 bar and it seems to run fine at 1800 bar.
I thought the CP3 ran around 1600 bar so should also be good for probably 1800 bar.
Just need a bigger turbo and and maybe some water /meth or nitrous and you will be around the 400 bhp mark.
 
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I'm lovin reading this, i just need to get a few things sorted with work and I'll be able to get mine properly sorted.
 
Currently running over 2000bar pressure with no issues - this pump is really impressive. If i try any higher i get errors - the rail pressure sensor is M12 and finding a 2400bar sensor is abit tricky. In M18 there are many options like a BMW item for example.
 
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Well thats the fuelling sorted then. I personally wouldn't push past 2000 bar unless you really have too, as that pump was originally designed for 1600 bar operation I believe. Asking for lots of flow at high pressures puts a big demand on the pump and takes a lot of power to run the pump.
They are cheap enough to buy but if they fail they fill the rails with debris that will possibly result in you replacing injectors as well.
Turbo next, Hybrid 2260 or something bigger ? . There is a good amount of room at the back of the engine for a sizeable turbo.
 
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Big Turbo

Well I knew it would be only a matter of time before I fitted a bigger turbo.
So it all came together in the Christmas / new year break.
To be honest I had the turbo before I had even purchased the car. It was a nice unit and when it came up for sale I just had to have it.

The turbo itself started is a borg warner John Deere s200v. As stock the turbine is really healthy as 56mm ex but only 44.5mm ind compressor wheel. Lucky for me the unit came modified with a 70/51mm CW. The compressor housing also came with anti surge modification already done.

Turbo pictures

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Parts collection - Oil return, feed, compressor housing outlet, flange, V bands etc

yGhU3p0.jpg


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The green cable is the turbo speed sensor

S200 Vs 2260 compressor housing

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Fitting

Turbo unit removed

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Custom oil return

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Custom oil feed

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Modified 3" downpipe

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Modified the Y collector and welded the S200 flange directly to it.
Y collector also housed the EGT probe (cut the boss from a broken 2260) and emp adaptor.

The actuator set up was a very fiddle job - getting the angle and throw correct in relation to the turbo lever took a lot of hours.

But finally a VCDS output test could be done with no errors

Ignore the TIP it was something just to get the car running.

rlKTq4s.jpg


After deleting the EGR cooler water pump, temp sensor and rad outlet sensor I noticed the lambda sensor wasn't behaving itself.
Turns out the rad outlet sensor is used some how to make the lambda sensor to function.

That meant I had to plumb the sensor back in.

lzJCm3V.jpg


Heat protection

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Bi Turbo MAF

As the stock MAF sensor was maxed out at 900kg/h the options were map based smoke limiter (time consuming to get right) or bigger MAF.
For a cleaner tune decided to go with the A6 Bi turbo MAF rated upto 1400kg/h so nice improvement over stock.

The housing is bigger over stock so custom 90mm TIP was needed, but on a plus note the MAF fitted the stock air filter perfectly.

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Looks pretty good

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Dyno result

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420hp / 830nm
As you can see the power is still going up at 4k but egt was already 900deg so kept it safe.
Maybe more rail pressure next.
 
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audi upgrades
Wow you don't hang around do you Bobby. Congratulations.
Hatemi did something similar with a 3.0 Audi but I am sure you have already read that .
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=429110
Very nice figures and certainly only doable with an auto, A manual would freak with that sudden torque increase the clutch wouldn't know what to do.
Bet that is very interesting when the turbo spools, thats got to pin you back in your seat :) .
Don't know if earlier injectors might help a little they may flow more allowing you to reduce the injection duration which might help EGT's .
Also some tweaking the boost to find the sweet spot between back pressure and boost.
But you know all that anyway.Will keep a look out for further updates.

Karl.
 
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Yes Hannu done the same - its returned to stock now though.
S200 frame is really nice next size up like a S300 is just too big - there are better wheels that might fit so could be further options if required.
I wouldn't want to use early injectors as they had issue with failing and causing bad engine damage.
If i really want more I'd go for higher rail pressure or wait until bigger injectors come available.
For a dyno queen i could get 440 to 450 i guess, but i've kept it safe with 900deg before correction factor
 
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Yes Karl it does pin you back - being able to break traction is a nice statement.
Might be making a trip to santa pod soon i think - terminal speed should be interesting.
 
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Hardly know that was a diesel plenty of air there so room for more fuel, but I would play safe with EGT's and try and keep it reliable.
I should imagine you would be looking at high 12's and around 110mph with that kind of power.
How is the gearbox coping ? .
 
Gearbox seems fine at least for now.
I will change the gearbox oil and filter - its due a change anyway. ZF filter isn't exactly cheap though but cheaper than a gearbox :)

Turbo speed is still under what BW consider safe so there is plenty of scope but just need more fuel.
CP3 Pump is really great does exactly what you ask it.

Cheers
 
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6HP28 - ZF says 700NM but i heard another report to say 750nm but it seems to work at 800plus ok as well
 
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@bobby singh I had the 6HP26 in my 335d E92, I spoke with a ZF engineer that was looking at a gearbox at a main dealer I contract too. He looked on his work laptop for me, the 6HP26 was officially rated to 750nm, but he did say they're conservative.
As your gearbox is designed for the 4wd drive drain, I'd imagine the torque load capacity of your unit to be slightly higher or at very least the same.

I would love your auto box, mine in my A6 is rubbish, can't take any serious torque.

At the moment, I have a reflash on mine, made it better, but still has a torque limiter in 5th, that's too low, as it pulls strong in 1/2/3/4 and 6, just goes flat in 5th !! Only 5th gear ..... Do you feel anything like this on your gearbox ??
 
-26 box is 600nm according to ZF doc I have but I know it can take a lot more. I tuned a 335d with dpf off made 370hp and 720hpnm and gearbox is still ok.

I have no issues with my box in any gear.

I'll make some video when on track etc.
 
I know CMD and magpro2 couldn't do my transmission so I haven't bothered to be honest.
Send me a PM about the full spec it could be something else.

Cheers
 
bobby singh said:
Yes Karl it does pin you back - being able to break traction is a nice statement.
Might be making a trip to santa pod soon i think - terminal speed should be interesting.
Click to expand...
You should come to GTI International at the Shakespeare raceway, great weekend and a good place to meet other ASN members.
http://www.gtiinternational.co.uk/
 
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Me and xpower are heading to Santa Pod this Sunday, if the weather holds out
 
bobby singh said:
Gearbox seems fine at least for now.
I will change the gearbox oil and filter - its due a change anyway. ZF filter isn't exactly cheap though but cheaper than a gearbox :)

Turbo speed is still under what BW consider safe so there is plenty of scope but just need more fuel.
CP3 Pump is really great does exactly what you ask it.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Hello, does your box have alot of rev movement when the torque converter is unlocked, like 1st 2nd and 3rd when its unlocked its shocking especially if slowly accelerating?

Im looking to have my trans fluid changed but dont know whether to do it myself or have a specialist do it, had quotes of around £300
 
audi upgrades
Hi - it depend how you catch the transmission. For example when i log i put it into manual mode select 3 or 4 gear then WOT sometimes i have release and go again to prevent a upshift.

I'm going to change the filter and oil on mine soon. The 6hp 28 takes lifeguard 8 oil (green) and the filter is part of the pan.
Its over £200 for just the parts so £300 is not so bad.
 
February 2016 - Turbo Speed sensor

As the s200 has a default speed sensor it would be crazy not to make use of it.
According to BW they say no more than 152k rpm.
Looking on the turbo shaft there is a flat area which would mean 1 pulse per turn - confirmed by using a scope.

I decided to use the EGR input as in VCDS there is a raw voltage display. After some testing on the egr i found the ground, 12v and the input.
Using a input signal from my phone @ 2.5khz i calibrated the voltage shown in vcds to 4.5v which is approx 150k rpm.

Here are some pictures of the home made pulse to voltage convertor

Melted the OEM EGR plug to expose the pins:

XKKhQ9N.jpg


vdnksDr.jpg


mBQRmyA.jpg


zOVO79Q.jpg



End result shows the turbo has rpm of approx 145k so still some more scope left :)

I've also calibrated the voltage so the coil light flashes when we get overspin - I've been trying to get the car to limp with a certain voltage/shaft speed is seen, but this is more difficult that expected.
 
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desertstorm said:
I just replaced it as the old one was open circuit. Only about £35 for all the parts from the dealer including a new plastic liner for the fuel filler.
Karl.
Click to expand...
I found that this little unit can torque itself open cct. I found one of the contacts to the motor had pulled out. A careful prise open and a rebuild with a little araldite or epoxy putty in the right place stops this happening again. I also refitted the liner and resealed the slits with a carefully worked blob of polyurethane sealer (tigerseal). Cant tell its been out!
 
bobby singh said:
Went for a second power run today

Peak power hasn't increased as expected (turbo can not flow any more air top end) however nice healthy increase in torque and power is holding much better now.

317hp 720nm
Click to expand...

May I ask..At max Hp and just prior to spool-up are you getting much smoke?
I ask because my tuner (Corten Miller) did 40miles of dyno running on my stock CAPA motor (with exception of DPF gutted) to give me 274 from stock 236 bhp with just the slightest haze at max Hp. He said that if he took it further there would be visible smoke at high speeds (I had asked him to ensure no smoke). Seems a lttle meager in comparison to your Stg1 with DPF fitted I must say, and I had fully de-coked the inlet just prior at 75,000mi when I slipped some titatnium blanks either end of the EGR tract.
 
I get very little if any smoke from mine, there are plenty of photo's on my build thread of the car on the 1/4 mile. Very occasionaly I get a haze when using the water methanol, Normal running it's smoke free at around 315 bhp.
 
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I've had zero smoke throughout the development. If you maintain good lambda there is no reason for smoke.
Most of the tunes out there are just duration mapping, so they will increase duration by say 20% rather than correct calibration.
Also, that dyno run you refer to is with a 4bar map sensor with peak boost at 2.1bar. This was used to crack 700nm.
 
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February 2016 - Exhaust manifold pressure sensor & Rail sensor

Its been on the to do list to add an EMP sensor that can measure more than the stock deltap sensor, managed to source a 6 bar sensor from a Renault.
However, they don't sell just the plug on its own so plumbed the wires directly and fitted superseal connector.

KaeHsmW.jpg


Now tuning spool is easier with emp:boost logging

As the injector limit has been reached causing high egt's after 4k, the workaround is increased rail pressure - currently the M12 stock sensor does not read more than 2000bar.
It turns out the rail end has bung that can be removed for M18 rail pressure sensor and sealing surface is perfect:

H7LhEMN.jpg


ZReOiJY.jpg


Target is 2200 bar rail pressure and then back to dyno
 
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Sweet with just over 32000 PSI of pressure in the rail I hope that sensor is well fitted. An 18 mm circle has an area of 0.4 square inches so there would roughly be 12800 pounds of pressure acting on the end of that sensor. Thats 5.7 Ton or nearly 3 times the weight of the car.
Think thats why the higher pressure sensors are a larger diameter.
 
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