S3 Understeer, Mermaids and Unicorns

I drive a three door, no mag ride, standard. Pitches like a ******* on a wobbly road, even at legal speeds ***. (I'd really like to fix that.) But so far, I've not experienced understeer. I'll reserve judgement as to where the limits present themselves once I get it on a track. You're right about the tail end though although I think that's something you'd eventually learn to drive around. Or file an insurance claim. :scared2:


Don't lift off. ;)

Especially not at speed on a bend on a track. :lmfao:

Jackie Stewart has a saying, and its particularly apt for the 3 door -
“Don’t put your foot on the gas pedal until you’re sure that you’ll never have to take it off again.”
 
What would he know?!! :sneakiness:

Yep, I've had the OFFS moments - will it, won't it...:scared2:

It's a strange car in some ways. It surprises me, as standard, how well it makes progress on a quality, sweeping surface - wet or dry - especially wet and yet throw some bumps at it, in the transient mid corner stage and you're hopping about all over the place.

As you say, a lot to do with the roads you drive on.
(I can't help but think there's a sweet spot somewhere in there, tuning wise and suspension upgrades for not too much money. Unless something goes wrong.)
 
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Wow, just read all this and chuckled out loud a couple of times............
For most people most of the time the S3 is an awesome piece of road kit.
For some people some of the time the bounce and understeer is disappointing (both appear at relatively low speeds, the S3 definitely likes high speed smooth cornering)...........as Casey Stoner once said "what is the point of f**king test riders if they are 2secs a lap slower".

If you buy an S3 for a cutting edge handling hot hatch then you have bought the wrong car, if you bought it for a car that covers ground ridiculously quickly and ridiculously easily then you probably have the right car.
 
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Wow, just read all this and chuckled out loud a couple of times............
For most people most of the time the S3 is an awesome piece of road kit.
For some people some of the time the bounce and understeer is disappointing (both appear at relatively low speeds, the S3 definitely likes high speed smooth cornering)...........as Casey Stoner once said "what is the point of f**king test riders if they are 2secs a lap slower".

If you buy an S3 for a cutting edge handling hot hatch then you have bought the wrong car, if you bought it for a car that covers ground ridiculously quickly and ridiculously easily then you probably have the right car.

I read it and had much the same reaction.

OK,mine is from the previous generation,and some of it's traits have been attended to,but it comes back to what you want,and expect from the car.
A nose-heavy,predominantly FWD car is always going to retain some of these traits,and you either accept that,or buy a different car,or "fix" the one you've bought.

Overall,whichever model it is,the S3 IS a good car,and covers ground very well,and for those that want to,it can be turned into something more....
 
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If you buy an S3 for a cutting edge handling hot hatch .

Nah, I bought the S3 because it was a sedan. Against the R when we did way too many test drives (had both cars for overnight test drives, various times), on our local roads and our driving style, the S3 handled better and was (and is), as most know, a much nicer place to be.

We don't track our vehicles and rarely exceed the speed limit. Most of our cornering is done within suggested limits.

This type of driving might bore the pants off some of the road warriors posting in here, don't care, suits us perfectly.

I also chuckle reading some of the posts in this thread, clearly some disillusion people expecting some sort of supercar (in terms of handling) out of the S3. It is an Audi ***, what did you expect :D
 
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In the first case:

It isn't an unreasonable expectation, when you buy a S3 8V having stepped out of a S3 8P, to expect that the suspension would be "better".
The 8P is a 2003 platform, it is reasonable to have expected that in 10 years of development, the new product would be considerably "better".

Instead - you get mismatched springs with damper rates and iffy damping, and steering that hasn't progressed as well as the competition.


Secondly:

The salient point is that other marques/models have managed to produce a hatch that is "hot", rather than "warmed over". For example, the Golf R is set up better and does driver better out of the factory, Audi seemingly didn't go down this route.

So you can get a "hot" hatch with 300PS that is better set up in terms of suspension and steering, without any compromise in ride quality. In this respect - Audi did drop the ball in not producing the "best" or "benchmark" MQB hot/hyper hatch, for driver involvement.

Interiors are a matter of taste.


Thirdly:

Yes. At the end of the day, it's a fast car based on a small family hatchback. It's not a sports car, and does not offer sports car handling around the corners. Quick in a straight line though. Still disappointing, for something badged as a "S" car.

It definitely is an Audi :D
 
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No disappointments at all with my S3 sedan in terms of handling. Versus the 8P we had to put up with for 3 months, a great improvement in that area.

I feel so sorry for those disappointed - must suck.

Guess they should have bought a Golf R assuming you want a boring looking family hatchback with no design cred, weak build, average interior (credible reviewers note the S3 is a huge winner) and tech and almost no gain in handling.

Still, such is the life of the 2nd guessers :)
 
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Even more disappointing news from Audi at the new A4 launch.

They have publicly said that their focus for the future is driver tech, not driving dynamics.
I guess it's all geared towards autonomy and self driving cars in the future.
 
Three pages and no one has even mentioned "unicorns". :shrug: :tongueclosed:

The boot is way to small to fit my Unicorn in unless I put the rear seats down ..I am disappointed to say the least......oh sorry I thought you said unicycle...Now I could talk about Unicycles and understeer until I am blue in the face.....talking of blue and Mermaid...We hired bikes to cycle over the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco from next door a restaurant called the Blue Mermaid at Fishermans Wharf...now that was a scary ride into Sausalito (far side of the bridge)............ understeer, oversteer, no brakes, no tread on the tyres.....was so bad we took the ferry back....maybe we should all sell our S3's and take public transport then we could all ague about ride quality of buses and merits of one bus company/model over another.
 
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They have publicly said that their focus for the future is driver tech, not driving dynamics.
I guess it's all geared towards autonomy and self driving cars in the future.

@veeeight all geared to what sells cars, Audi know Joe public is more interested in connecting to the internet and streaming music than how well their car handles

"better ride dynamics" is a minor advertising strap line compared to "high speed fully integrated WiFI connectivity" .

Majority of A4's are fleet cars for sales reps who are more interested in being able to read emails have business teleconferences while surfing for the nearest laptop club to their hotel.
 
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Audi can do the handling and performance thing when they want to....

Look at the B7 RS4,and the current R8.
As Daveotto rightly said,it's geared to what sells cars,and I think also to what sells the cars in a particular niche.
The S3 isn't pitched at the same market as the Golf R for instance,and is definitely not intended to compete with the RS3,so it is what it is....a bit porky,has a bit of body roll,and isn't super-fast.

But it's not supposed to be....

And of course,the aftermarket exists to feed the desires of those who want that from a "luxury" hatch.
 
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How bizarre. A car manufacturer wanting to sell cars :D

No guessing why an aftermarket area exists for those wanting something to suit their less mainstream needs/wants ;)

Unicorns are coming now someone mentioned an R8 in an S3 thread :)
 
How bizarre. A car manufacturer wanting to sell cars :D

No guessing why an aftermarket area exists for those wanting something to suit their less mainstream needs/wants ;)

Unicorns are coming now someone mentioned an R8 in an S3 thread :)

And your point is?

It's simply an illustration of the fact that Audi actually can make a car with decent handling,performance and steering,when they put their minds to it.
 
and money. Actually, if you get a chance drive an R8 through some mountain country. We did 2 months ago. What a ham fisted car for that type of drive. My point is the S3 is an entry level Audi performance car. Pointless comparing to cars produced in different economies (by year and monetary value)

Mermaids seem plentiful in here lately :)
 
The R8 is actually a car that responds to driver inputs, outputs the appropriate response, and rewards accordingly, without the S3 type delay in response.

A pleasure to drive.

(Proving that yes, Audi can produce decent handling cars that sell, when they put their mind to it).
 
Probably pointless then to make any sort of comparison at all.

Have fun with the mermaids and the unicorns.
 
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Comparing an R8 to an S3, yes, agree, idiocy.

Actually,I didn't.
It was simply to illustrate a point,but clearly you didn't see that.

However,at least I didn't find it neccessary to infer that another member might be an idiot.

You go and have a good day now.
 
The boot is way to small to fit my Unicorn in unless I put the rear seats down ..I am disappointed to say the least......oh sorry I thought you said unicycle...Now I could talk about Unicycles and understeer until I am blue in the face.....talking of blue and Mermaid...We hired bikes to cycle over the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco from next door a restaurant called the Blue Mermaid at Fishermans Wharf...now that was a scary ride into Sausalito (far side of the bridge)............ understeer, oversteer, no brakes, no tread on the tyres.....was so bad we took the ferry back....maybe we should all sell our S3's and take public transport then we could all ague about ride quality of buses and merits of one bus company/model over another.

Should have just grabbed the Big Red. We did the same bike ride - was pretty civilised.

Hope you didn't stay in Fishies Wharf though - a lot of tourists do but it is a dive and even worse at night.

We always stay on the Hill. Less crime, better restaurants and better accommodation. Works out to be very central too.

Love SF.
 
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Should have just grabbed the Big Red. We did the same bike ride - was pretty civilised.

Hope you didn't stay in Fishies Wharf though - a lot of tourists do but it is a dive and even worse at night.

We always stay on the Hill. Less crime, better restaurants and better accommodation. Works out to be very central too.

Love SF.

We agree on that at least.
One of my favourite cities.

The Wharf...did you see the "bushman"...?
 
Actually,I didn't.
It was simply to illustrate a point,but clearly you didn't see that.

However,at least I didn't find it neccessary to infer that another member might be an idiot.

You go and have a good day now.

There was no point to your post.

The mention of an R8 in a thread about an entry level performance, non-lux car is idiocy, I used idiocy in reference to the use of the R8 context not you personally but I see you turned it into something personal.

Not sure why but such is the way of forums.

The thread is clearly done.

More than happy with my non-under steering S3 sedan.

Those that aren't happy should definitely shop elsewhere. Life is too short to spend it all on forums worrying about it :)

Edit- oh and it's night here but will indeed have a good day tomorrow, under steering.
 
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What a ridiculous thread. 3 or 4 pages of arguing when you're essentially both saying the same thing.

Flatoot (and Warwick) - arguing that the S3 doesn't understeer unless you're driving it too fast.

V8 - Arguing it will understeer at it's limit, and that it's limit arrives earlier than some other cars in the same sector.

You're essentially arguing the same sodding point!! I hope you're all proud of the time you've wasted.

And for what its worth, 1600 miles on my S3 and its understeered once when I wasn't expecting it to.
 
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Should have just grabbed the Big Red. We did the same bike ride - was pretty civilised.

Hope you didn't stay in Fishies Wharf though - a lot of tourists do but it is a dive and even worse at night.

We always stay on the Hill. Less crime, better restaurants and better accommodation. Works out to be very central too.

Love SF.

Yes we stayed on the Wharf, was ok for 3 nights, is a dive at night and restaurants were not so good as you say but loved SF.... Was as part of a 3 week road trip.

SF, Monterrey, Big Sur, Santa Barbara, Santa Monica, LA (Yuk), Lake Havisu (mistake), Grand Canyon (awesome), Death Valley, Vegas, Yosemite and back to SF...and fitted in 3 Man V food restaurants en route
 
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I hope you're all proud of the time you've wasted.


Well, it makes a change about arguing about puddle lamps, flat bottomed steering wheels and christmas avatars ;)
 
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Well, it makes a change about arguing about puddle lamps, flat bottomed steering wheels and christmas avatars ;)

There's no argument about Xmas avatars V8...............they totally rock!!
 
Anyone who had issues at 30mph on a roundabout and has the thing tied up in knots, is obviously driving it in a slightly weird manner. I can pretty much get round every single roundabout in the region, with just approaching it at a sensible speed and the applying a smooth amount of power through the corner. I assume the vast majority of S3 owners have found this out as well.
There is no need to go 'fine tune' the handling, geometry, suspension, flappy paddles, ECU or whatever - the car is perfectly capable of eating up the miles at a decent rate of knots. Push it beyond where it wants to go, and I dare say it will protest. But does your average M135, Cupra, Leon, Golf R or whatever comparably priced car on the market, have a completely different characteristic? Will it breeze through that roundabout 30mph quicker?
Alls I know is that I can get the S3 from A to B at pretty rapid pace when I want to. Do I have to temper my enthusiasm when approaching a 30 degree bend with a 200 foot drop on the other side? Sure! It's not a train riding on train tracks. I accept that it's a car designed to hold the middle ground.

Analysing the pros and cons is fine and I acknowledge that a lot of this is down to perception. But fundamentally, when you say something has an inherent problem - in this case, V8 stated that the S3 is bad for understeering, then you really have to stand by what you say. And judging by some of his comments about roundabouts, I'd say this particular chap is looking for the TGV on tracks for £30k. Go buy yourself a kit car and build yourself handling perfection if that's the case.
 
The salient point - is that the S3 has a greater propensity to understeer under road conditions, than other similar or 'lesser' cars, eg. Fiesta ST or Golf R.

The S3 understeers at its limits. :)

Nobody was suggesting otherwise. :D

Those limits just happen to be lower in an S3, compared to say a Fiesta ST, Megane RS or Golf R, given the same bends and conditions.

£35k or cars costing less than £35 can breeze through those same corners, bends or roundabouts without losing grip, where the S3 does.

In this respect, it is what it is, and it is disappointing.
 
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£35k or cars costing less than £35 can breeze through those same corners, bends or roundabouts without losing grip, where the S3 does.
In this respect, it is what it is, and it is disappointing.

And again, the salient point is perception. It is my claim, that you drive your car on the ragged edge, to the point where it's inevitable the tyres will cry no more.

What you really need to be saying then is this:

"The S3 is, pound for pound, one of the best hatchbacks out there. It is both refined, powerful and handles beautifully well, when driven sensibly. However, if pushed to 100% or beyond, there are other cars out there that will handle better".

This my friend, is WAY different to saying the S3 understeers.
 
"The S3 is, pound for pound, one of the best hatchbacks out there. It is both refined, powerful and handles beautifully well, when driven sensibly. However, if pushed to 100% or beyond, there are other cars out there that will handle better".


It just isn't

Why is why, every publication and reviewer (and yes, I know your views on this) hold up the Golf R as the benchmark hot/hyper hatch for two years running.

The s3, as standard, is a "warmed over" version of what hot hatches should be all about.
Driver engagement, fun, reward.

Pound for pound, there are better buys :)
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/hot...tout-civic-type-r-vs-fiesta-st-vs-vw-golf-r#1
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/15324/the-top-five-best-hot-hatchbacks-on-sale-right-now
https://awards.whatcar.com/hothatch
 
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It just isn't

Why is why, every publication and reviewer (and yes, I know your views on this) hold up the Golf R as the benchmark hot/hyper hatch for two years running.

The s3, as standard, is a "warmed over" version of what hot hatches should be all about.
Driver engagement, fun, reward.

Pound for pound, there are better buys :)

In my best Star Wars voice - STAY ON TARGET, STAY ON TARGET!!

.....and handles beautifully well, when driven sensibly. However, if pushed to 100% or beyond, there are other cars out there that will handle better".

Yes or no?

Understeers, or there are other cars out there that understeer less when pushed beyond the limit?
 
In my best Star Wars voice - STAY ON TARGET, STAY ON TARGET!!

.....and handles beautifully well, when driven sensibly. However, if pushed to 100% or beyond, there are other cars out there that will handle better".
Yes or no?
Understeers, or there are other cars out there that understeer less when pushed beyond the limit?


1. No, I would disagree even with "handles beautifully well" - because of the other suspension issues mentioned numerous times in this forum. Hit a mid-corner dip or undulation and you lose contact with the tarmac.

2. Approaches the understeer limit quicker than other comparable cars out there.
 
In my best Star Wars voice - STAY ON TARGET, STAY ON TARGET!!

.....and handles beautifully well, when driven sensibly. However, if pushed to 100% or beyond, there are other cars out there that will handle better".

Yes or no?

Understeers, or there are other cars out there that understeer less when pushed beyond the limit?

"Handles well when driven sensibly" - if any car doesn't handle well when driven sensibly it shouldn't be on the road.

What V8 is saying is that the S3's '100%' is less than a Fiesta ST/Golf R's '100%'
 
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I tie my shoe laces left over right
 
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"The S3 is, pound for pound, one of the best hatchbacks out there. It is both refined, powerful and handles beautifully well, when driven sensibly. However, if pushed to 100% or beyond, there are other cars out there that will handle better".

Why is why, every publication and reviewer (and yes, I know your views on this) hold up the Golf R as the benchmark hot/hyper hatch.

OK guys my two penny worth before I hide behind the wall again...........

The Golf R might well be the best handling car of the two but 99% of the time you are not going to push it to the point it might be noticeably better than the S3. On the other hand every minute you sit in the S3 its going to feel quality and class due to its far better build quality than the Golf R. I take the later over the former any day of the week.

Do I care if i get beaten out of a roundabout by a Golf R....no as iv'e gone well past my boy racer days even if I still do boot it a little bit to much ,


And because of the differences above why should VW make one of these two very good cars more like the other..they are covering the market pretty well me thinks

lighten up its nearly xmas............just my opinion
 
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We are all different though, and seek different things from our cars.

For me, one of the joys of driving is balancing the car on its limit say, on a wet roundabout, and just being able to pivot the attitude of the car around a moment, feel it respond to throttle and steering inputs, and slide and drift it in and out and correct it.

Or to be able to drive a car at night just as fast as you would in the daytime and not have to rely on visual senses, instead, being able to feel all sorts of feedback through the seat, pedals, floor, steering wheel etc.- which the S3 lacks.

(I am well aware that this will probably attract criticism of public road behaviour - however safety is foremost, and there is an appropriate time and place for everything).

Or even, just to have fun - this is what a hot hatch should be all about. For me, the S3 is a one-dimensional car. You end up having a drag race in between bends, and then you just end up managing understeer. And coping with the weird damping.

It's a fast point to point car, not a car to go fast around corners in.

As someone else has summed - A good drive is something with adjustability and finesse. A car that feels connected to the road. That responds to subtle inputs. Where the throttle response is instant and can thus be used to alter the attitude of the car on the limit. Where you can feel the road surface through you hands and bottom. Where you are driving the car and the car is not driving you with all its driver aids and electronics.


And no, I don't need an Elise or Caterham. I just want a good, engaging, hot-hatch :)

But - I'm sure that the S3 is well suited to plenty of other people out there. I just wouldn't call it a drivers car.
 
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We are all different though, and seek different things from our cars.

For me, one of the joys of driving is balancing the car on its limit say, on a wet roundabout, and just being able to pivot the attitude of the car around its centre of mass, feel it respond to throttle and steering inputs, and slide and drift it in and out and correct it.
:)

Did Lewis Hamilton not get into serious struth in Oz for driving in much the same way?

I used to be that man - 17 year old. Not a care in the World. Driving everywhere like I was on the run from the fuzz! But I tell ya, even back then when I was driving GT Turbo's, 1.9GTi's, Punto Turbo's, Golf VR6's etc etc.... every single one of them understeered when I went into a corner too quick. Every single one had issues when pushed too hard. If you want top drive everywhere 10/10ths, then the Ferrari La Ferrari, or the P1 is maybe where you need to spend your dosh.
 
But - I'm sure that the S3 is well suited to plenty of other people out there. I just wouldn't call it a drivers car.

Me neither, but I would call it a car for people who enjoy driving, as there's a subtle difference between the two.

I'm well aware of its faults, and happy to live with them given I don't get the chance that much to blast around B-roads as much as others, and therefore the interior, comfort, spec, exterior and straight line speed outweigh the other issues.

I could have waited for a Focus RS, or bought a golf R or an M135i, but they all ticked less boxes than the S3.

As far as I'm concerned there isn't a "perfect" car in this segment of the market.
 
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How about a selfie from my holiday last year to lighten the mood.......................??!! ;)










5420929571_da97af1ed1_b.jpg
Si.....out of 2?.....I'd give you 1 :)
 
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