Sell up or more power???

Gonzokew

Registered User
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
238
Reaction score
81
Points
28
Location
East Midlands
Hi,

I have an 300hp 300ftlb s3 which is obviously maxed out of a k04. I'm about 4K in the hole with everything I've done and know if I sell up I'll be down on money.

Not sure whether to sell up after xmas or bite the bullet and go for a bigger turbo. First of all I need to upgrade the con rods so with this in mind I'm not driving the Audi a lot anyway at the moment.

Think most the rest of modifications are already in place just wondering if people have an idea of what else I may need as general mechanics I'm on but have never done engine work.

Spec: usual stage 2 stuff

K04 turbo - 15k miles on it
Relentless manifold
Pipewerx downpipe and sports cat
Miltek cat back
Wellycooler
S2k cone filter with cold air feed
550cc injectors
Badger5 tip
R tech stage 2 map

350bhp would be nice... Thoughts????

Here's a picture of my s3 with the new work horse which is my first diesel. Sounds like a tractor but drives spot on

 
  • Like
Reactions: jojo and JonBoi25
Im looking to do this, I'm almost 100% on keeping the car and going bigger turbo.

Just trying to find the cheapest way to do so :p !.

Looking for around 400bhp + / - .

Its a muuuust :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: S3-LINCS
Fortuitous you started this thread today, as I have been considering this myself over the last few weeks. I'm going to turn this into a discussion so bear with me. :)

I love my S3. I love the size, I love the fuel economy, and I like how it drives. I like the big aftermarket, I like the way it looks, I like the build quality of the interior. I like how it's near invisible (especially in silver) and how it can hold its own against newer cars (because it isn't stock).

I like how the motor (sans rods) is quite rugged, robust, and can handle lots of power. I like how the transmission can also hold 2x the power easily. I like how the Haldex system can also handle anything you throw at it.

However...

The AWD system, compared to a proper one, is ****. Whoever here has been in an Evo or an STi can attest to that. I don't like its unpredictable nature sometimes as a result of this. I don't like the incessant understeer upon entry, either. Now I realize you can make ANY platform handle with enough money thrown at it, but that's besides the point. Spending thousands on suspension mods to improve it (and still not matching a stock Evo), disappoints me.

While it does make good power for a 1.8T, it is still a gutless **** below 2500rpm. I know for people who are used to turbo engines that that is a good powerband, but for someone like me who has owned responsive NA motors of varying size, it is disappointing. My old CRX SiRII had a better powerband (relatively). Much lower torque, but much better response and MUCH less weight (880kg with half a tank and a sub in the back :p) meant I never, ever had an issue with it being so gutless. Also, the fact that it runs out of steam so early sucks. Fun is nearly over by 6500rpm on my hybrid setup. A Honda K20 engine, something everyone beats on for being torqueless, feels much better than the 1.8T before boost. A well sorted K20/K24 hybrid makes the same power a typical hybrid turbo setup makes, too. Couple that with the 200kg advantage the EP3 has and it really doesn't feel lacking. Not epic, but not lacking. My best friend has one and my car runs neck and neck with his.

The fact that you need to upgrade EVERYTHING to make over 300 to the wheels also sucks. Stock injectors won't do it. Stock turbo won't do it. Stock rods won't do it. Stock downpipe won't allow it. And the list goes on... That's not even getting to the Hitler of ECUs that is on the car.

Couple that with the fact that it is the single most cramped and tight engine bay I've ever seen, along with the most needlessly convoluted and complicated layout of everything... Then add the mediocre brakes. :p

Think about it this way. The parts you need to make the car handle and go properly:

Suspension wise, you need camber adjustment front and back (especially if lowered). You need thicker ARB as the car is set up too soft. I'm assuming any car owned by an enthusiast will have shocks and springs so I won't use it as a disadvantage.

To "fix" the AWD, you need a haldex controller. To improve it even further, you need LSDs (stock on a non-base Evo).

To improve power past 300 horsepower, you need injectors. And downpipe. And turbo manifold. And a hybrid/BT. And a TIP. And an intercooler solution. and and and....

Why spend all of thousands of dollars on parts, and thousands more on labor, to not even match the all around characteristics of a mapped Evo?

The only reason I bought my S3 is because it was well modded and I couldn't find an economical and powerful all-rounder that was better for what I paid for it. If I had an extra $8000 to buy an Evo 8, I would have.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against improving it. I just don't want to cross a certain $/hp ratio. It's in the shop now getting rods, meth, lwfw, exhaust, and TIP. I'm saying I wouldn't have done those things if @Chlippo hadn't done so many supporting mods before I bought the car. I also invested in a Liquid gauge and Phoenix Gold components and amplifier.

In summary, I think if you bought your S3 to make it fast and run with "quick" cars, you bought the wrong car. If you want a quick, well built hatchback that will work in water or snow, then I think you bought the best car. Decide what you want with it, and decide if you really want to invest ALOT of money (double that amount if you don't do the labor yourself) to make it run with the best of them, then do that. My uncle told me something once that didn't make much sense then but does as I got older.. You can buy a donkey. You can train said donkey. You can work long and hard on that donkey. But it's always better to buy a racehorse.

Lastly, case in point... Chlippo sold his car to me and bought an Evo. :D
 
I guess I couldnt agree more.
The strong points of the S3 is the comfort, the nice interior, the fuel economy, the silence (compared to the evo) and mostly the daily drive. The evo have none of that. But it does have the power, and it comes with a price tag. Don't forget that modding the evo is not "cheap", but the good point is that you can go to 400 bhp on stock everything (cold air intake and downpipe do help) but if you want to go beyond that, it gets expensive.

At the end of the day, to each his own, I do not consider that there is good or bad decision regarding the modding level, but as a personal opinion, I see the S3 as a 350 bhp car, not more. And personally (again) i beleive it is most enjoyed (and balanced) at that power level. Every car in my book have a max power range.

Is the evo a better car...no, is the evo a better 4wd driving machine,,,,yes, it is better than a S3, it depends how you use it.
 
Hmmmm, it's all just individual opinions and people by cars for all different reasons so not sure it's worth comparing and EVO with an S3. I have always liked performance cars since I was 18 but never really aimed for buying a car that had to be faster than anything I came across on the road. I have always bought firstly on looks and then on performance and also rarity is a big factor for me. Personally I find the jap cars EVO's, STI's, GT-R's etc very soulless looking cars (Honda S2000 is the jap exception) and not very appealing to me. The only EVO I'd love to own now would be and Integrale EVO 2 (I had and 8v 15yrs ago). Best looking hot hatch ever made in my opinion, and in second place to me is the S3 8L (almost a modern integrale). I also own a Porsche 968 Sport for summer use, which again I love the looks and rarity factor, feels great and well connected to drive but is no missile compared with modern exotica but who cares. On our forever congested roads, with cameras, speed bumps etc who really needs 300 + hp unless using mainly for track use?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Locotoolman
Evo's are garbage! They only do one thing and that's drive fast! Plus you look like a fast and furious wanabe driving them. I'll stick with my S3 thank you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JonBoi25
Thanks for the responses but again as always it comes down to personal preference.

I know it makes more sense to buy a quicker car in the first place but most of us are guilty in spending money knowing we won't get it back. It's all part of the fun and knowing it's all done properly!!

Saying that, the base mark is already there and I don't think it will take much to get more power out my old girl
 
Gonna cost you a rod install and prob another £1k on top to take it to hybrid level. That's your easiest and cheapest option for more power.
Make of that what you will
 
  • Like
Reactions: daz-20vt
Thanks for the responses but again as always it comes down to personal preference.

I know it makes more sense to buy a quicker car in the first place but most of us are guilty in spending money knowing we won't get it back. It's all part of the fun and knowing it's all done properly!!

Saying that, the base mark is already there and I don't think it will take much to get more power out my old girl

Oh I completely agree there. I spent untold amounts of money on my old E34 to get it to handle and stop well, and spent a bit on a custom tune and exhaust as well. Would have been cheaper to buy an E36 M3 for what I paid in total, and I would have ended up with a car better in every way but the sound. Oh, the sounds my E34 made. :D

I agree your base mark is already there, as is mine. I just think spending a few thousand dollars to *barely* reach 400hp isn't the smartest thing I could do. You probably think different, which is great by me. It's a forum! That's why I'm here, to help and be helped.

Hell, I'll even go so far as to say convince me. If you can make 400 horsepower without too much effort from what you have, I may follow suit. :)
 
Of course it comes down to personal choices, but that was the thread question lol. My opinion, take the s3 to the max level on a hybrid or stock k04.

Of course some gonna say evo is garbage, im not inviting anyone to buy one hehe, but no one can deny its driving capabilities.
 
My personal opinion is the 8L S3 is comfortable with 300bhp, anything more require major upgrades to suspension and brakes to cope. Of course there are a few high powered 8L's on the forum, but with the most of them are hotrods! How many actually backs up the power output with handling to match?

If you plan to go the big turbo route, then you have to decide to keep the car, for a year at least! lol Seen too many builds where the owner has got bored or gave up midway through the build, then can't sell the car for anything near what they have invested into it, and said car ends up be broken for parts!
 
I agree with that, keeping the car isn't a problem as I know if I sell up I would buy another so I might as well keep the Audi as I know the work that has been done has been done right. Plus I have another car so don't mind the process taking a couple of months etc

Rtech told me the car responded really well with the remap and should have been hitting 310hp/330lbft on a standard k04 (only a couple months old mind) but due to rods he held back. So I know the engine is good with the mods I've done already

Maybe the hybrid is the route to go down as superkarl says...

Beach buggy turbos I have seen a lot on the forum. Is this the best place for the k04 hybrid?

Sorry for lack of knowledge
 
The S3 8L is old, heavy, temperamental and a pain. Hybrid level means a few £k thrown at it to get circa 330 reliably.
Any more than that, your looking at £k's more and a trip to a specialist like Bill at Badger 5 for a build. (Gops, Gubo, Tuffty etc)
It annoys me that my mates with megane 225, VXR etc throw £1k into an exhaust and map and they are making 300nhp easy.
If you want a quick car, the S3 will bleed you dry BUT its enjoyable building something of your own.
Quick easy power, chucky'ing up an Evo and mapping it may be for you.

Personally, my S3 is a pain in the ***. BUT I love it and its mine. I've built it, I know it like the back of my hand
 
  • Like
Reactions: daz-20vt and <tuffty/>
Joe is right. Everything needs uprating.. Everything! I'd like to get some kW v3's on my car soon just so it handles that much better, and some AP 6 pots. Personally builds shouldn't have a budget if you're doing it right. I remember asking bill for a budget build but then I realised it costs what it costs. So I shelled out and it was more worth it. I wish I had more to shell out so I can do everything but it's slow progress to make sure everything is at a level that makes you confident every time you take it out.
 
Just buy a Fireblade or a 750 SRAD WidowMaker and be done with it. 0 - 60 in 3.25 secs - instead of all this mucking about :)
 
Just buy a Fireblade or a 750 SRAD WidowMaker and be done with it. 0 - 60 in 3.25 secs - instead of all this mucking about :)
Good point, I have a ZX-7R and by no means the fastest out there, but way more fun on the roads than any car, including Mitsi EVO's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: michael A
Just buy a Fireblade or a 750 SRAD WidowMaker and be done with it. 0 - 60 in 3.25 secs - instead of all this mucking about :)
I think you are missing the point of this thread bud. Oldest quote in the world, go buy yourself a bike! Lol. I don't have a bike licence, so buying either of the above is next to useless to me, unless I just like to look at it! :laugh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: xpoweruk and Tj 0785
Interesting read for me guys as I'm in the position of having to get rid of my current car (Celica GT4 ST185) as I need a 3 door hatch and I'm thinking of a S3 8L, and that's for practicality with similar performance.I love my car but compared to modern motors it's just way behind even with some mods.

I hope you're not going to put me off:disrelieved:
 
Interesting read for me guys as I'm in the position of having to get rid of my current car (Celica GT4 ST185) as I need a 3 door hatch and I'm thinking of a S3 8L, and that's for practicality with similar performance.I love my car but compared to modern motors it's just way behind even with some mods.

I hope you're not going to put me off:disrelieved:

I can only recommend you test drive a few S3s to see what you think? They are ok at best in standard form, a good all rounder, but by today's standard, where the game has moved on, you may be disappointed. Saying that, I love them personally, I'm actually on my 3rd one! lol
 
I can only recommend you test drive a few S3s to see what you think? They are ok at best in standard form, a good all rounder, but by today's standard, where the game has moved on, you may be disappointed. Saying that, I love them personally, I'm actually on my 3rd one! lol
The game has moved on but the roads surely have got worse for performance cars, so I personally don't really understand this obsession with having to keep up with modern performance cars, as unless on track the're not really using the cars potential anyway stuck in traffic, avoiding speed bumps and sticking to 50mph on long stretches of motorway. It really does seem to me that the only way to fully enjoy the roads or avoid traffic is to get your bike licence. I have two cars & a bike and even though I wouldn't call myself a biker (only 2000 dry miles a year) if I had to choose to keep only one of my toys then it would have to be the bike. The pluses over cars in this congested 2015 UK are overwhelming.
 
The game has moved on but the roads surely have got worse for performance cars, so I personally don't really understand this obsession with having to keep up with modern performance cars, as unless on track the're not really using the cars potential anyway stuck in traffic, avoiding speed bumps and sticking to 50mph on long stretches of motorway. It really does seem to me that the only way to fully enjoy the roads or avoid traffic is to get your bike licence. I have two cars & a bike and even though I wouldn't call myself a biker (only 2000 dry miles a year) if I had to choose to keep only one of my toys then it would have to be the bike. The pluses over cars in this congested 2015 UK are overwhelming.

Everyone is different, I'm old enough to know that racing on the roads is stupid. I DO take my car out onto the track occasionally! :racer: And the quickest car in my fleet, currently, is a diesel powered automatic A6 Estate! lol, which happens to go over speedbumps quite comfortably.

I don't crave to ride a quick bike, or maybe I do, but I've not had a chance or opportunity to try it out? But I'm in no hurry to go get a bike license to do this.
 
Ignore my bike comment, I am not allowed one after being hit by people carrier.
I see the S3 8L as a classic collectors car, I love the massive amount of torque. My s type 3.0 v6 would have kicked down 2 gears to accelerate from 60 where this just takes off in 5th or 6th.

If I had time, money and ability I like the thread where they have put in the 3.2 Quattro engine in and the S3 turbo somehow?
 
  • Like
Reactions: S3-LINCS and jojo
nobody has toyed with the sell or keep more than me yet it's still here and I'm still tuning!!!

power on these is easy. just a bit of money.
brakes again very reasonable price for brembo set ups.
handling is the s3 downfall but imho it's due to no one really pushing this matter.
so along with ASN stig mr prawn, me and my track s3 I'm going to figure this part our for you all.
I'm a hero !!!

rods and hybrid are easy for you.

hybrid is a fantastic unit. but your at 310 already I'd go big turbo. only my thoughts of course.
 
nobody has toyed with the sell or keep more than me yet it's still here and I'm still tuning!!!

power on these is easy. just a bit of money.
brakes again very reasonable price for brembo set ups.
handling is the s3 downfall but imho it's due to no one really pushing this matter.
so along with ASN stig mr prawn, me and my track s3 I'm going to figure this part our for you all.
I'm a hero !!!

rods and hybrid are easy for you.

hybrid is a fantastic unit. but your at 310 already I'd go big turbo. only my thoughts of course.

I'm currently stuck between a rock and a hard place with what's happening to my black car mate! lol
 
Ignore my bike comment, I am not allowed one after being hit by people carrier.
I see the S3 8L as a classic collectors car, I love the massive amount of torque. My s type 3.0 v6 would have kicked down 2 gears to accelerate from 60 where this just takes off in 5th or 6th.

If I had time, money and ability I like the thread where they have put in the 3.2 Quattro engine in and the S3 turbo somehow?

What? Massive amount of torque and S3 8L don't go in the same sentence, man. :p

nobody has toyed with the sell or keep more than me yet it's still here and I'm still tuning!!!

power on these is easy. just a bit of money.
brakes again very reasonable price for brembo set ups.
handling is the s3 downfall but imho it's due to no one really pushing this matter.
so along with ASN stig mr prawn, me and my track s3 I'm going to figure this part our for you all.
I'm a hero !!!

rods and hybrid are easy for you.

hybrid is a fantastic unit. but your at 310 already I'd go big turbo. only my thoughts of course.

I agree. If you're already around the 300hp mark, there's no point paying for a new turbo if it's only going to take you to 350hp. Buy a GT30, suffer through installing it, and never worry about upgrading the turbo again.
 
What? Massive amount of torque and S3 8L don't go in the same sentence, man. :p



I agree. If you're already around the 300hp mark, there's no point paying for a new turbo if it's only going to take you to 350hp. Buy a GT30, suffer through installing it, and never worry about upgrading the turbo again.

I have 451ft/lbs badger torque so I think it does in a 8L haha
 
"What? Massive amount of torque and S3 8L don't go in the same sentence, man. :p"

My other car is a Punto 1.2 active, this S3 has a load of pull between 3 and 4.5K - I think 240lb/ft is ample for a 1.8 my old V6 3.0 was 221lb/ft for the same BHP
 
It's looking like the rods plus labour will be around £1100 all in with new bearings head gasket etc.

So get this done first then see where I go from there
 
  • Like
Reactions: jojo
It's looking like the rods plus labour will be around £1100 all in with new bearings head gasket etc.

So get this done first then see where I go from there
Head is coming off for the Rod change, might aswell get yourself a hybrid turbo and mapping to suit in my opinion.
 
Here we go! This is how it starts! Hybrid, then it's ongoing!! I'll be honest, there's a handful of cars that make 350. 330ish seems to be the norm. 350 with supporting mods but tbh its engine dependant! A good engine will make the power.
 

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
613
S
Replies
2
Views
732
Replies
12
Views
1K
Replies
24
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
898