As per title, my first try at a tubular manifold, seen the ones darkside developments are selling and there's no way I pay the price for something shiny and pretty ! Done it quick too, took me about 5 hours to cut and weld all done with a grinder and by eye...
My 1st attempt at building a tubular manifold
- Thread starter adamss24
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Nope but close enough...it does not matter much on a diesel engine as the firing pulses are well spaced and it's a 4 into 1 manifold which means that the exhaust gass can go only one way so cannot choke the next firing piston...
Are the pipes just butted together then welded, or expanded a little to fit the other pipe in?
The reason I ask is that I am going to have a go at building an exhaust system for my 1.8TQ, which is my low key track day car.
The reason I ask is that I am going to have a go at building an exhaust system for my 1.8TQ, which is my low key track day car.
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Yep, they are butt welds, the manifold is built out of 2.7mm stainless steel pipe and bends, the edges are beveled and the joint is filled with stainless steel 316 filler wire. It's very strong however i will make a rose jointed bracket for the turbo as one of my mates broke his Darkside manifold at the flange due to a heavy turbo and diesel vibrations !
Kevinb5
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That's awesome!what turbo will you be running with that flange?vnt20? Will there be enough clearance for the inlet manifold?
Nope, i have a gtb2056vl from a volvo d5 2.4 diesel...i could also switch to a gtb2260vk- it fits plug and play in thegtb2056vl housing...
Kevinb5
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Plenty clearance for the PD130 intake manifold and with the manifold having a t25 style flange it's quite easy to upgrade turbos as well! I had a few hybrid turbos made with uprated components that did 300 Bhp on a v6 2.5 Tdi. The gt20 is a easily available, rather cheap turbo which is not a problem to upgrade if needs be !
Yes, b5 tdi quattro, AFN engine with Bosio race 520 nozzles, 11 mm injector pump, ported head with pd130 lifters, pd 150 head bolts, twin valve springs + titanium retainers, aftermarket forged rods and much more. Pity the THS style downpipe would not fit anymore however i will build a 3" exhaust manifold for it...
jbh
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what power you hoping to get out of this Chris? Im looking forward to seeing the finished item..
Nice work Chris, I think it's always better to try and do as much as you can yourself because you get a much greater sense of satisfaction at the end, also more coin in your pocket. Darkside products always seem to be at the top end as regards price . If you look around you can get cheaper and just as good quality I think.
Darkside manifold is nearly 1K this one is just over £400
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-AUDI-S...083966?hash=item2a5c0e8d3e:g:kjEAAOSw4UtWSL~p
Strange thing is it's from Barnsley which is where Darkside are based I think.
Darkside manifold is nearly 1K this one is just over £400
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-AUDI-S...083966?hash=item2a5c0e8d3e:g:kjEAAOSw4UtWSL~p
Strange thing is it's from Barnsley which is where Darkside are based I think.
Kevinb5
Registered User
That's a nice set up,ever think of making a few and selling them on?i will soon be having an attempt at modifying and sdi inlet for my afn...this is a completely different story though 
Thanks Karl, i think Awp engineering used to do welding for Darkside but now there is some **** hot yankee welder that's doing the manifolds welding for darkside. The new manifolds fom darkside have a milled billet manifold collector which eliminates most of the stresses which makes the old design fail prematurely. There are a few copies out there some better than others... For what it cost me i can do a few tries and i learn a lot as i go along !
No problem, i can make a few more no problem if there is demand !That's a nice set up,ever think of making a few and selling them on?i will soon be having an attempt at modifying and sdi inlet for my afn...this is a completely different story though
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Seen as your such a fan of the 2.5, can i ask why your doing all this to a 4 cylinder?
I've got a 330d now, and comparing it to the 4 cylinder in my brothers 320d or my mates hybrid turbo Bora is night and day. The 6 cylinder engine just has so much more power and tractability, you can pootle along at 1500rpm and accellerate with no drama and it pulls really well from right off idle and smoothly thru the whole rev range. A simple remap and your closing in on 300hp too.
In contrast the 4cylinders are all dead ducks when off boost, with the power coming in as a massive slug somewhere north of 2000rpm as the engine finally comes on boost. As a result the rev range is really shortened and you end up with a "nothing POWER governor" affair. Fitting a massive 300hp capable turbo to a 1.9 is only going to make this even worse, probably not coming on boost until 2500rpm or more. My mates fitted a hybird to his Bora and really wishes he hadnt, because while yes, it makes 50hp more at the top end, its ruined the bottom end area where you spend most of the time. The old turbo was on full boost by 1800rpm, wheresa the new one is more like 2200rpm, and that 400rpm hole is exactly where you spend most of your time when driving normally. They're also rough, rattly and unpleasant sounding compared to the 6.
I've always been a fan of petrol turbos, and disliked diesels. I bought the 330d on a bit of a whim without driving it, and it really is bang on. If it was a choice between a 250hp petrol turbo or the 3.0 diesel with 250hp, i'd probably take the diesel. The same choice but with a 250hp 1.9 and i'd take the petrol engine every time.
I've got a 330d now, and comparing it to the 4 cylinder in my brothers 320d or my mates hybrid turbo Bora is night and day. The 6 cylinder engine just has so much more power and tractability, you can pootle along at 1500rpm and accellerate with no drama and it pulls really well from right off idle and smoothly thru the whole rev range. A simple remap and your closing in on 300hp too.
In contrast the 4cylinders are all dead ducks when off boost, with the power coming in as a massive slug somewhere north of 2000rpm as the engine finally comes on boost. As a result the rev range is really shortened and you end up with a "nothing POWER governor" affair. Fitting a massive 300hp capable turbo to a 1.9 is only going to make this even worse, probably not coming on boost until 2500rpm or more. My mates fitted a hybird to his Bora and really wishes he hadnt, because while yes, it makes 50hp more at the top end, its ruined the bottom end area where you spend most of the time. The old turbo was on full boost by 1800rpm, wheresa the new one is more like 2200rpm, and that 400rpm hole is exactly where you spend most of your time when driving normally. They're also rough, rattly and unpleasant sounding compared to the 6.
I've always been a fan of petrol turbos, and disliked diesels. I bought the 330d on a bit of a whim without driving it, and it really is bang on. If it was a choice between a 250hp petrol turbo or the 3.0 diesel with 250hp, i'd probably take the diesel. The same choice but with a 250hp 1.9 and i'd take the petrol engine every time.
Kev, the old rotary pumped 1.9 tdi is such a simple yet reliable design and will return very, very good fuel economy- i had an y reg passat fitted with a derivative of the 028 engine and that returned up to 60 Mpg ! There is no engine out there that can touch the mpg out they do bar the 3 pot pd engine but that' another story ! I also tweaked a few of them engines and they do respond well to mods and have a higher rev range compared with the CR engine and make power in a more linear way. Also with bolt on mods they do tune nicely and they are not that bad sounding engines after all -of course not in the same league as a 6 cyl engine !
Also the gtb2056vl turbo is in another league compared with the gt1749v turbo that came stock on the AFN engine which ran out of puff at about 150 Bhp. The gtb has a gen 3 VNT system and a higher temp. Inconel turbine which sustain high EGT. Also the compressor wheel has a really nice trim and comes on boost as low as the original turbo if not lower without surging. It can also keep up boost eficiently and will do 250 Bhp all day long- it's one of the best turbo i have driven- perfect match for a 1.9 diesel engine ! They are also easy to come by and my only gripe is that i cannot use the electronic actuator they came with- there are a few guys that made interfaces to work on the edc 15 ecu but they are keeping secret tightly !
Also the gtb2056vl turbo is in another league compared with the gt1749v turbo that came stock on the AFN engine which ran out of puff at about 150 Bhp. The gtb has a gen 3 VNT system and a higher temp. Inconel turbine which sustain high EGT. Also the compressor wheel has a really nice trim and comes on boost as low as the original turbo if not lower without surging. It can also keep up boost eficiently and will do 250 Bhp all day long- it's one of the best turbo i have driven- perfect match for a 1.9 diesel engine ! They are also easy to come by and my only gripe is that i cannot use the electronic actuator they came with- there are a few guys that made interfaces to work on the edc 15 ecu but they are keeping secret tightly !
Also the car is a b5 tdi quattro which is the perfect combination: 4wd, simple ,reliable engine, better weight distribution than a v6 tdi, it also have all mods and cons and i am still thinking to do a paris dakkar style endurance test one day ! This will be the perfect candidate for a endurance challenge, the good old AFN can run on anything thats oil and some very poor quality fuels ! I also have loads of spares for the b5 and with simple mechanicals it makes a decent whip wherever i go- it really never let me down ! It's that type of car that i could fix at the side of the road with basic tools !
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yeh makes sense i guess, will be interesting to see a dyno plot of the end result! I'd be quite amazed if that turbo really does spool up as quickly as the little 1749!
Kevinb5
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Have you had any experience tuning an afn with a bv43?
in Ireland the tax bracket is the main reason no one can afford to run anything over a 2.0l before 2008 (the tax on post 08 cars are on emissions) so for my 1.9 it's €693 a year to tax and for a pre 08 3.0l it's €1494.
Then buy a uk car and travel to uk every 6 months ! You can enjoy cheap tax and insurance then ! AFN with bv43 is very good however the power is moved up the rev rage...AFN with gtb2056vl is another story !
jbh
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I know a few folk from over there that have UK registered cars for this reason I never realised it was so expensive though..
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I recently watched a "Police Camera Action" type show, based in Ireland (i presume it was actually Irish Customs rather than police), and they were pulling folk over and impounding their cars because they were registered in Northern Ireland (presumably for the above tax reasons) but were being driven in the south.
Surely that implies they're really cracking down on folk doing that?
Surely that implies they're really cracking down on folk doing that?
Kevinb5
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This is pretty much the reason for it,for long enough when the € wasn't as weak it made sense to buy in England and transport it over,even with paying the vrt it still worked out 3/4K better value. But people were leaving their cars untaxed/vrt'd and chancing it for as long as possible,new regulations require the car to be vrt'd within 14 days of purchase of it can be siezed. The only way you can get away with driving an English reg'd car in Ireland is if you have an address in the uk and that the vehicle is registered to that address..
Kevinb5
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Very good Chris, looks tight for fitting the nuts on the flange where the turbo mounts. As above I wouldn't really have a clue where to start trying to fabricate something like that.
It's not too bad to do with a bit of patience, a grinder and a pack of stainless steel cutting discs ! It's made of 42mm internal diameter SS bends and it will go on a t4 with a 1.9 tdi conversion... I will do one in 38mm bends however i cannot find 38mm pipe in Uk ?!
The head studs will require very shallow nuts to secure the manifold to the head however it's not much of a problem as the bottom ones get secured first ! Thank you so much for the nice words guys !
The head studs will require very shallow nuts to secure the manifold to the head however it's not much of a problem as the bottom ones get secured first ! Thank you so much for the nice words guys !
