Are ALL S3 Quattro's Skittish a bit unstable feeling on autumn roads?

Stuart B

Stuart B

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I know I am middle aged but I have owned / driven dozens of cars in the last 30 odd years, but never a hot hatch 4x4.

In the dampish conditions going round corners my car just feels a little "dangerous" I feel like I am tip-toeing around corners even when going relatively slowly.

could this be anything to do with the occasional longditudinal sensor fault maybe not operating the haldex power? or just the fact the car is short wheel based and I am used to rear wheel drive BMW's or the S-Type Jag? but my 2.0 156 JTS Alfa didn't feel like it would spin at any minute in the greasy autumn weather, quite the opposite.

Could it be the tyres are too hard or rubbish? I had an issue with my wife's 318is with cheap rear tyres in damp conditions they felt like hard plastic on the road.

The closest car regarding lack of trust was an early 80's Capri 3.0s, but they would spin driving in a straight line. :)
 
Does the rear skip going over manhole covers etc?

ETA: It could be all sorts, but trailing arm bushes made a HUGE difference to how planted mine felt, much more than any other change (which is most of the suspension at this point :().
 
I can go around a corner in the wet at maybe 30 mph eg turn off a road and both front and rears wheel spin, slip, virtually drift. It might be normal for a small powerful 4x4? in the dry I have total confidence for the exact same road.

don't get me wrong it is fun, but I don't feel like I should need to be on edge all the time for normal driving.

If it is not normal maybe I will get the tracking checked.
 
They have plenty of tread, I just wonder if they are rubbish, I assume they are supposed to be at 30psi - maybe that is too hard for the winter.

I am probably just being old and whiney about the car, next I will complain the clutch is too hard for my knee :)
 
Hi Stuart,
The Audi quattro should really handle much better than any BMW in slippery damp conditions. Tyres should be 32psi all year round.
Firstly I would ask you what make of tyres you have on the car, as the cheap budget tyres could well be the cause of this skittish handling. I know from experience when I bought mine the budget tyres it came with were awful, & by getting decent rubber changed this dramatically.
 
No not normal, could be tires, bushes suspension etc, difficult to say exactly what the issue is but you shouldn't be on tender hooks in the wet at average speeds.
 
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Sympathise re: the clutch having spent an hour in motorway queues today ;)

As said above, it could be all sorts really, and definitely not normal. What tyres is it running?
 
My S3 used to want to step out in wet weather . Changed rear drop links, trailing arm bushes and now it's by far the best handling car i've had in the wet . Recently fitted good year f1's and cant rate them enough in the wet .
 
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What tyres do you have on the car?. The kind of conditions we have lately with cooler temps and lots of rain will find out the cheaper ditch finder type tyres. As above I use Goodyear eagle F1's and find them a really good all round tyre.
 
Thanks for the input guys the car feels firm enough so not sure the suspension is the problem unless it is too stiff - I reckon it is the tyres that are the problem, I have only had the car a few weeks - am unsure of them apart from the pressure, size and condition, will check tomorrow. I am pretty sure they are budget and hopefully the issue. I have a local friendly tyre place so will pop in over the weekend and maybe get the fronts changed.

I doubted the tyres the other day when I was driving up a slip road in the rain and simply wheel span as soon as it hit 4K RPM, even with the longditudinal sensor sorted out (so ABS and traction control on) I would not expect the traction control to be required simply driving onto a motorway.
 
S3's do not handle at all in the wet with crap tyres! I'm on my second S3 now and they've both had crap tyres on them when I bought them. Ive just fitted a set of Goodyear Eagle F1's and its gone from simply dangerous to one of the best handling cars I've had. I can literally take the **** in the wet now and it simply sticks. It even rides better and is a lot quieter. I'd be surprised if it's not the tyres. Both times I've had the same problem and good tyres have sorted it.
 
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Stuart B said:
Thanks for the input guys the car feels firm enough so not sure the suspension is the problem unless it is too stiff - I reckon it is the tyres that are the problem, I have only had the car a few weeks - am unsure of them apart from the pressure, size and condition, will check tomorrow. I am pretty sure they are budget and hopefully the issue. I have a local friendly tyre place so will pop in over the weekend and maybe get the fronts changed.

I doubted the tyres the other day when I was driving up a slip road in the rain and simply wheel span as soon as it hit 4K RPM, even with the longditudinal sensor sorted out (so ABS and traction control on) I would not expect the traction control to be required simply driving onto a motorway.
Click to expand...

Wheeling spinning up a slip road.... Could be low tyre tread aquaplaning over standing water. Or a Moohassive turbo under the bonnet :)
 
audi upgrades
Just a normal KS04 turbo I am afraid, I am pretty sure the tyres are the problem, if this car was setup with the 25-30psi turbo as when I originally got it I am sure I would have spun in the wet already.

Rears are "BTC S800" deep tread left - the comments on tyrereviews.co.uk match my experience in wet riding and especially the comments where people think their wheel bearings are gone, like a drone / hum.

Fronts are Toyo Proxes (not sure of the exact derivative) but also quite a few wet weather complaints about skittish wet weather grip and wheel spinning for no real reason.

Tyres can go onto my list :D :D - I don't care if they only last 7000 miles if I can safely enjoy myself, rather than being overtaken by a Renault scenic in the wet
 
Okay so I will check over the drop links/sway bars and anti roll bar bushes tomorrow on both front and rear.

These are not particularly expensive items. should I simply buy all of them and fit them or individually check them to determine whether they need changing? can all these bushes be fitted without any special tools eg to press them?

I want to improve this car but don't want to commit to something outside of my ability. so undoing and replacing something is fine but not compressing suspension springs etc. I have checked the MOT history and what usually happens is the minimum each time it failed its MOT, rather than pro-active care.
 
My A3 was on really cheap chinese tyres when I bought my car. They were just dangerous in the wet, even though they were fine when it was dry.
Changed them for Eagle F1s, couldnt believe the difference that made.
 
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Thanks, I agree with the cut corners from previous owner, I would understand this on an ordinary pop to the shops £800 runabout but not a relatively rare and future classic machine which should at least hold its value. it wont in a hedge.
 
get some decent brand tyres, michelins, goodyears etc, and tracking checked..

you may get a nice surprise then.. of a car which grips and inspires confidence

cheap, crap rubber does no one any favours
 
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Wow BCT S800 tyres you were unlucky there. Possibly the worst reviews I have ever read for ditch finder tyres. Nobody has a good word to say about them. If you can't afford 4 tyres just get those off the car and buy some decent rubber. Forget about looking at suspension issues till you have some decent rubber on the car.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/BCT/S800_4.htm
 
A S3 in good fettle with decent tyres should feel very planted wet or dry, mine with Bilstein B8''s feels like a limpet still with 177,000 on the clock

if yours feels skittish then its tyres, geometry or bushes most probably
 
Thanks for your help, tyres it is then rather than a winter cover..

okay so anyway I got some front drop links, is this a joke??? I have two different manufacturers for left and right. this is surely ill-advised before I complain to the seller, would you fit two completely different manufacturers on left to right when buying new as a pair? they even came in the same box!

the left has black nuts, the bar looks slightly thicker and the boots are black
the right has silver nuts (obviously slightly thinner) and the boots are transparent.

or is this normal and the way to know which is which?

Thanks

yeah I read about S800's on tyre review too, I have a feeling that outlive most cars they are fitted on.
 
Hi,

Okay so I have 4 new JINYU YU63 - I know they are still relatively cheap tyres but they are okay, the tyre fitter said other people had swapped out those BCT / BTC tyres too - got to use all his tools to get the wheels off and on whilst he was doing the wheels (should have done drop links at the same time :) )

Straight away I can feel the movement on the front end due to the ARB bushes showing daylight, which I will replace this week along with front drop links.

BUT.. I changed the rear drop links today and the head light level sensor (took hours to get the old one off and un-seize the control arm) so I am unsure of the torque of the big bold going through the insert, there seems to be a mixture of 125 NM, as tight as you can muscle but also I pulled the thread out?

I want to feel safe - but don't want to break it. so I have 130NM - I could do it tighter - what is the official figure? or do I just keep checking it?
I didn't put any thread lock on it? so far I have done about 15 miles without it falling apart, and the rear does feel better (maybe in my head)

Incidentally, I can see how easy it is to change the inserts at the wheel end, is it easy at the other end as these inserts are pretty rusty and jagged, only on the outer skin. also when I undid the main bolt one wheel dropped and the other one stayed where it was? #confused

Please help with the how tight is the bolt supposed to be, I reckon if it falls out the car will be destroyed when the insert hits the road.
 
Stuart B said:
Hi,

Okay so I have 4 new JINYU YU63 - I know they are still relatively cheap tyres but they are okay, the tyre fitter said other people had swapped out those BCT / BTC tyres too - got to use all his tools to get the wheels off and on whilst he was doing the wheels (should have done drop links at the same time :) )

Straight away I can feel the movement on the front end due to the ARB bushes showing daylight, which I will replace this week along with front drop links.

BUT.. I changed the rear drop links today and the head light level sensor (took hours to get the old one off and un-seize the control arm) so I am unsure of the torque of the big bold going through the insert, there seems to be a mixture of 125 NM, as tight as you can muscle but also I pulled the thread out?

I want to feel safe - but don't want to break it. so I have 130NM - I could do it tighter - what is the official figure? or do I just keep checking it?
I didn't put any thread lock on it? so far I have done about 15 miles without it falling apart, and the rear does feel better (maybe in my head)

Incidentally, I can see how easy it is to change the inserts at the wheel end, is it easy at the other end as these inserts are pretty rusty and jagged, only on the outer skin. also when I undid the main bolt one wheel dropped and the other one stayed where it was? #confused

Please help with the how tight is the bolt supposed to be, I reckon if it falls out the car will be destroyed when the insert hits the road.
Click to expand...
As tight as you can get them! Unless you're the hulk you shouldn't break that bolt.
 
Think you might still have problems in the wet to be honest

Given 53% (breakdown) while driving a BMW 320d (235-40-18-V)
Driving on a combination of roads for 1,000 average miles
very good tyre on dry BUT causes car to tram line.lethal in wet weather they dont dispurse water quick enough

Given 48% (breakdown) while driving a Ford Ford TE50 Series 3 (245-40-18-W)
Driving on mostly town for 100 average miles
These tyres were a control tyre for street car time trials so i figured they would not be to bad. I fitted them to my Falcon that has a 342ci stroker, 380hp and 500nm of torque. Dry grip is pretty good, flexi side wall though. Wet grip for my car is pretty rubbish, i give the pedal 5% and im spinning the wheels. Have not had them long enough to tell if they last or not. Very quiet and comfortable. The Sonnys i had before this were better though....

Given 41% (breakdown) while driving a Honda (225-45-17-)
Driving on mostly country roads for 3,000 spirited miles
Very noisy tyre! next to no feedback and they give no confidence in anything buy really dry conditions, Lose traction when changing gear in Vtec in the Dry :(
In the wet they lose traction when I hit Vtec and seriously struggle for grip when changing gear in Vtec!
 
moisty said:
Think you might still have problems in the wet to be honest

Given 53% (breakdown) while driving a BMW 320d (235-40-18-V)
Driving on a combination of roads for 1,000 average miles
very good tyre on dry BUT causes car to tram line.lethal in wet weather they dont dispurse water quick enough

Given 48% (breakdown) while driving a Ford Ford TE50 Series 3 (245-40-18-W)
Driving on mostly town for 100 average miles
These tyres were a control tyre for street car time trials so i figured they would not be to bad. I fitted them to my Falcon that has a 342ci stroker, 380hp and 500nm of torque. Dry grip is pretty good, flexi side wall though. Wet grip for my car is pretty rubbish, i give the pedal 5% and im spinning the wheels. Have not had them long enough to tell if they last or not. Very quiet and comfortable. The Sonnys i had before this were better though....

Given 41% (breakdown) while driving a Honda (225-45-17-)
Driving on mostly country roads for 3,000 spirited miles
Very noisy tyre! next to no feedback and they give no confidence in anything buy really dry conditions, Lose traction when changing gear in Vtec in the Dry :(
In the wet they lose traction when I hit Vtec and seriously struggle for grip when changing gear in Vtec!
Click to expand...

I didn't see that?

Where are you reading those reports?

I had these fitted on my S-Type 3.0 V6 with no issues - but obviously that's not a fast car :)

Tyre1
Tyre2
 
You can't be cheap on tyres, not on a normal car let alone one with a decent amount of power.
They aren't just a performance part, they are one of safety
 
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Locotoolman said:
As tight as you can get them! Unless you're the hulk you shouldn't break that bolt.
Click to expand...

being HULK is relative ( I used to weight 10 stone, but I am quite a bit heavier now), are you sure just as tight as I can, so progressive or snatch. I am fearful as some said that an M14 high tenstile bolt can only take 140NM.
 
superkarl said:
You can't be cheap on tyres, not on a normal car let alone one with a decent amount of power.
They aren't just a performance part, they are one of safety
Click to expand...

but I don't think these tyres are a problem, my "tyre review" remarks show 97% (albeit only a few comments( and moisty found 41% - I will be annoyed if they are rubbish as I reckon those S800's would die of old age before rubbing out, these YU63 are soft tyres which will only last for about 10K.

I see a "falcon" in the reviews, so maybe these tyres don't work in Australia :) I don't think "Chris" at the A1 tyres place will lie to me about mid range tyres, I know where he lives ;-) slightly annoyed that Goodyear Eagle F1 are half price on delivery and I could have paid him a tenner or whatever each to to fit them.
 
Got the reviews from the same website . Fingers crossed they work out ok for you , might just be a few duff reviews. Never tried them so can't say how they will handle in the wet but most good reviews seemed to come with people with standard cars.
 
Hi,
I am a little confused that I get different results than you for the same tyre?

oh hang on you are looking at YU61 and I have YU63 (hopefully)

Celeron / Pentium
Tesco Own / Heinz
A3 / S3
SKODA / AUDI
5th gear/top gear

:)

Cool

maybe those 2's for each wheel are the difference between a ditch and a drift :)
 
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audi upgrades
My mistake i just copied and pasted and went into tyrereviews.co.uk , just checked and i was looking at YU61 reviews DOH!
 
Stuart B said:
being HULK is relative ( I used to weight 10 stone, but I am quite a bit heavier now), are you sure just as tight as I can, so progressive or snatch. I am fearful as some said that an M14 high tenstile bolt can only take 140NM.
Click to expand...
If you're talking about the bolt that holds the strutt and the drop link to the rear hub then I never use torque settings I just buzz gun them up as tight as. Orr just use a strong arm so it's pretty damn tight!
 
I've recently purchased 4 Goodyear Eagle F1's for £300 fitted, and there's not much difference in performance wet or dry.
 
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well I hope there is a difference between 61 and 63 because the 61 are pretty badly reviewed
 
I don't know what a "strong arm" is, I assumed it was a sarcastic comment when someone said they used the strong arm to make it tight :D
 
I used to have cheap £50 a corner tyres on my s3 ok in the dry but terrible in the wet just swapped to Michelin pilot sport 3 and it's like driving a different car totally transformed the handling you really shouldn't be trying to save money when it comes to tyres especially on a performance car
 
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