VAG Admit Cheating Diesel Emmissions...

No idea why you are so desperate to hide the TDI badge... it's very puzzling!

I do hope the powers that be take the opportunity to put harsher restrictions on this kind of thing, and emissions in general - especially the NO ones. Perhaps even take the opportunity to invest a lot more in electric car infrastructure, because that is the obvious way things are going.
 
All of a sudden TDI and Diesel in general is Public Enemy No One. People seem to have forgotten that a diesel engine STILL produces much less of the Global Warmer CO2 gases than any equivalent powered petrol engine.

As far as an electric powered car is concerned I personally will be interested when an electric car can travel at least 300-400 miles on one charge and then recharge in five minutes just as my present car can. As things stand at the moment an electric car would not suit my needs at all and I will be sticking to a diesel as the best compromise.

If and when a suitable model of the A3 with a petrol engine giving me the same power as my current car that is not an S3 or S-Line is made available I may well consider it. This may well happen sooner rather than later if sales of diesels drop off considerably.
 
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When electric cars have a range of 350 miles and have the build quality & price of current cars I'll be first in line to buy one. It's just a matter of time.
Interesting times ahead.
 
I think they are further ahead than you seem to believe. I test drove the Model S a year ago, a very impressive car. It has that range, high quality, cost is about equivalent to other cars in its sector, and will only get cheaper as battery tech continues to improve at a massive rate. Then take off all the fuel and servicing costs you'll save and it's not too bad at all.

You also have to consider that ownership of an electric car is very different, as you tend to charge it every night anyway, rather than only visit to refuel every couple of weeks or so. Daily distance is far more important than with an ICE car, and of course fast-chargers are very impressive too - they can fill my friend's Zoe in about 20 minutes, a bit longer for bigger range cars, but I can't drive long distance without breaks every now and then anyway. This is also something that is only going to improve too. It's interesting that everyone suddenly needs to drive 300 miles every day as soon as the subject comes up though :p

As for CO2 - that's not the only gas that is a concern, as we've discovered recently, especially since the 2013 WHO report on NO emissions and deaths caused by those.
 
A Tesla would be awesome but I can't quite stretch to that price range but I'm hopeful 2 cars from now I'll be driving electric.
I don't use my car for commuting as I've got a work van and the wife works 5 minutes from the house but we regularly drive from Aberdeen to Inverness, Glasgow, Edinburgh and surrounding areas for the wife's running events and my cycle events among other things so range is definitely important to me.
The National Grid will need to do some serious upgrading to cater for millions of electric cars. Some people will charge at night, off peak, but loads will still be charging during the day and all the Superchargers will be 3 Phase putting more strain on the network than a standard slow charger. Hopefully someone at the top has seen this coming
 
Like feeding us donkey burgers ...
The world of large corporations means ethics are only used as a marketing device.

The reality behind some of these corporations is fairly dark....
 
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musicegbdf said:
Like feeding us donkey burgers ...
The world of large corporations means ethics are only used as a marketing device.

The reality behind some of these corporations is fairly dark....
Click to expand...

It makes you wonder what else we don't know about!
 
h5djr said:
All of a sudden TDI and Diesel in general is Public Enemy No One.
Click to expand...

Ain't that the Truth.
Amen to that, Brother.


h5djr said:
This may well happen sooner rather than later if sales of diesels drop off considerably.
Click to expand...

Not a question of if now - it's a when.
Average Joe's like me will be off like a (petrol) rocket now over the next few months / years.

Just hope the Pumps keep providing the stuff and it doesn't become harder to find / £ increase dramatically.
 
[QUOTE="Snibo, post: 2581180, member: 93391
Not a question of if now - it's a when.
Average Joe's like me will be off like a (petrol) rocket now over the next few months / years.

Just hope the Pumps keep providing the stuff and it doesn't become harder to find / £ increase dramatically.[/QUOTE]

Well I for one will keep buying a diesel. I love my 2.0TDI 184 quattro and if it is still available when I come to change I will certainly have another one. It also has an EU6 engine which passes the current EU requirements. I'm not bother by what happens in the US. On mainland Europe there are many more diesels than in the UK and diesel is quite a bit cheaper than petrol. You also get more miles to the litre, a lot more torque and produce a lot less CO2.
 
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h5djr said:
[QUOTE="Snibo, post: 2581180, member: 93391
Not a question of if now - it's a when.
Average Joe's like me will be off like a (petrol) rocket now over the next few months / years.

Just hope the Pumps keep providing the stuff and it doesn't become harder to find / £ increase dramatically.
Click to expand...

Well I for one will keep buying a diesel. I love my 2.0TDI 184 quattro and if it is still available when I come to change I will certainly have another one. It also has an EU6 engine which passes the current EU requirements. I'm not bother by what happens in the US. On mainland Europe there are many more diesels than in the UK and diesel is quite a bit cheaper than petrol. You also get more miles to the litre, a lot more torque and produce a lot less CO2.[/QUOTE]


Time will tell but there's growing consensus that diesel CO2 emissions are incorrectly reporting to be lower than in actuality.

Yes, you get more MPG but at what impact? It's not just CO2, it's NOx and particulates that diesels "excel" at. There's a strong link between diesel and asthma, for example e.g.
http://www.phi.org/uploads/application/files/xq1rssien18tmqtavs3k97m6ojpp6reyhgmy3ajnh9jhcjy93r.pdf
http://www.phi.org/uploads/application/files/xq1rssien18tmqtavs3k97m6ojpp6reyhgmy3ajnh9jhcjy93r.pdf

Plenty of other support on this front too.


Combine this with the lobbying from the car industry (don't even get me started on lobbying...) and mistaken approach of promoting diesel vehicles as more environmentally friendly via the tax system leads to the dire air quality situation we are blessed with now across Europe. A swift reversal of this whole approach should be taken including real-world pollution data and dumping of the whole CO2 == pollution tax system, changing to a more holistic approach (along with massive fines for anyone caught bypassing filters, cats, etc.).


As for diesel torque - sure it's pretty good but over hardly any revs - 380 at 1,800-5,500 for me vs. 380 at 1,750-3,250 for you. Plus every diesel car who floors it tends to leave a nice black cloud in their wake...
 
If it is decided to 'ban' the sale diesel cars - are we also going to ban the sale of all other vehicles that use diesel engines which including just about every lorry, coach, bus and ship in the world. I'm quite sure their contribution to poor air quality is much greater overall than that from cars.

As I have said before if Audi were to offer a decent petrol engined model with similar performance and quattro that was not an S3 or an S-Line I would certainly consider it. After all I did drive petrol engined cars for 38 years including four A3 1.8T Sport models up until 2004 and have only had diesels for the last 5 cars and 11 years.
 
Ships don't run on diesel.
The only "diesel" used is usually for ancillaries like electricity. Ships mainly burn very thick tar like oil.
Ships in Europe actually have to operate to very strict emissions.
In fact the emissions per tonne of cargo moved is very low. The answer is regional ports .
Unfortunately , consumer demand for things like super cheap flat screen tv's from china mean mega monster ships calling at monster ports and goods trucked...
The road freight industry has a strong lobby . Railfreight in the UK is a joke. ...
Cars are a small part of the problem
 
Yes ship's run on heavy fuel oil (even the auxiliaries on modern ships) but in Europe they are required to use low sulphur fuel and new International Maritime Regulations are addressing the issue of efficiency and emissions. There is a lot of work going on with LNG powered diesels on newer generations of ships (ferries, offshore support vessels even containerships). http://www.upi.com/Business_News/20...rst-LNG-powered-container-ship/7031445023601/

So the diesel engine is not dead but perhaps 'diesel fuel' is on its way out.
 
I'm not trying to justify what VAG have done, but here's some perspective on NOx in the atmosphere:

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/nox_lightning.html
"You could drive a new car across the United States more than 50 times and still produce less than half as much NOx as an average lightning flash."
And: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolightning

Also, lightning is on the increase due to climate change caused by Co2 (that stuff my diesel produces less of per mile than my old hybrid did)..

And electric cars would be great if they charged on renewables, but they get 2/3 of their energy from coal and natural gas stations..

Not sure what my point on this was, but I think there's other ways to look at this whole mess.
 
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Interesting Soul boy. Just shows how "facts" can be twisted
2000 times more sulphur , but does not mention carrying 200,000 times more weight.
25.5 k , bit like saying a S3 is driven at 149 mph and has bad fuel consumption...
As mentioned Europe has strict rules on ship emissions , though the rest of the world has not caught up.

The key problem as consumers we want cheap goods , and shipping freight are generally uneconomic for private companies. Most shipping companies are highly subsidised and surprise surprise there are virtually no British lines left.
The problem with large ships is they only call at key ports and cargo ( in the UK) is then moved by road.
The key calculation is emissions per tonne per mile. My company actually have on our website a emission calculator to show the emissions generated by freight moved. We actually even use the Manchester ship canal ....
The key really is to move freight by rail overnight using electric trains . Though that us not politically sexy , and needs massive investment... So whilst we keep demanding cheap flat screen tv's we will continue to pollute.
 
.....and there was me thinking I'd escaped all this**. Note use of 'could', 'suspected' and 'likely'.....

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vw-emissions-scandal-ea288-engine-also-being-investigated

"Current versions of the EA288 - those compatible with EU6 emissions regulations - are not suspected of carrying the software. But VW has admitted, “Other generations of the EA288 are currently being examined.”

It declined to comment further, but that’s likely to refer to the EU5-compatible versions of the EA288, sold from 2012 onwards in sizes of 1.6 and 2.0 litres. It’s not known precisely how many additional vehicles could be affected if the EA288 is determined to have featured the emissions test cheat."

**(early A3 8V's used the EU5-EA288 engine)
 
I bet it'll go further than that too. I'd be very very surprised if the EU6 model wasn't affected too.
 
Ah yes, they've proven themselves to be so trustworthy of late, why wouldn't I just believe that? ;)
 
If the software contains no 'defeat' mechanism to cheat emissions then by that defination it is legal...
 
Here's where it gets FUNNY:

"Europe grants carmakers more leeway on emissions:
In a vote in Brussels on Wednesday, the 28 member states watered down proposals for a new testing framework that would crack down on the techniques used by carmakers to doctor their emissions’ results in tests. The move by the Technical Committee of Motor Vehicles could exacerbate concerns that the EU takes the emissions issue less seriously than the US.

In Wednesday’s discussion, countries such as France and Spain argued that the European car industry needed more time to meet targets for hazardous nitrogen oxides (NOx) that exacerbate heart and lung diseases. Only the Netherlands voted against the measure, according to people briefed on the vote.

The decision stipulates that manufacturers will be allowed to exceed legal levels of NOx by 110 per cent between September 2017 and the start of 2020. After that, the motor industry will be permitted to exceed the legal limit by 50 per cent indefinitely, although that will be subject to a review clause. That timeframe would apply for new models of cars.

The rules would be introduced on a longer timeframe, to January 2021, for new registrations of existing car models."

And On and on and on and on...

At least the Brussels experts NOW have some understanding that the emissions targets they created are not achievable in the time frame and so it has always been since 91/441/EEC (Vehicle Emissions Standards: Regulations) in 1993.
 
audi upgrades
"Expert points finger at Vauxhall over diesel emission test results: Vauxhall faces being dragged into the diesel emissions scandal after research found that its vehicles produced “suspiciously high” levels of poisonous fumes. James Tate, an expert on air pollution, presented research yesterday suggesting that the British manufacturer’s entire fleet of diesel cars was significantly more polluting on the road than its rivals, including Volkswagen."

Published at 12:01AM, October 24 2015

Now this one for me is interesting 'cos Vauxhall is Opel is General Motors in the good old US of A - what goes around comes around...
 
Trading the wives affected Q5 in against another Audi.
Trade in offered at our dealership was over book price.
 
CO2 issues now, including petrol engines.
Not good!

Quote...
The carmarker did say the 800,000 were “predominantly vehicles with diesel engines”, raising the possibility for the first time that some Volkswagens with petrol-powered motors may also have emissions problems
 
From one article I read it seems like this time it could be smaller engines that are affected
 
jetron said:
So far the noise has been all about diesels. If the technology has been used to alter emissions in diesel engines, then you could probably bet that VAG aren't the only ones at it and also that similar technology has been used in petrol engined vehicles.
Click to expand...
Last week I queried my dealership as to whether or not there was any likely impact on small petrol engines. They said no with a laugh. Looks like their attitude may come back to haunt them!
 
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