Waterless coolant
- Thread starter Fctaff
- Start date
It's quite expensive to convert an existing system to a waterless coolant system as you need to use the prep fluid first to throughly clean all the existing coolant.
Then if you ever have a leak you will need to top up with waterless coolant, orif you need to drain the system you will need to capture all the coolant.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Evans-Pow...t-5-Litres-Prep-Fluid-5-Litres-/361306738202?
This article tells you some of the downsides of the coolant
http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm
Basically it's 100% Glycol or Propylene Glycol or a mix of the 2 . only a small amount of water in the system more than 3% will cause the formation of Glycolic acid which will cause corrosion. Which is why you need to make sure all the waters removed.
The biggy though is the specific heat capacity is a lot lower than traditional coolant mixes. So it doesn't remove heat as quickly and can lead to much hotter cylinder head temps during normal running. This means the fans will be running when normally they wouldn't be, The ECU's in petrol cars will ****** ignition timing at high engine temps so you will be loosing performance. Also the coolant is a lot more viscous which also contributes to inferior cooling.
I wouldn't use this in a car cooling system that wasn't designed to use it in the first place.
Using G12 or G12+ at 50/50 and changing it every 3-4 years will be fine for pretty much all vechicles. If this stuff was so good manufacturers would be using it.
Karl.
Then if you ever have a leak you will need to top up with waterless coolant, orif you need to drain the system you will need to capture all the coolant.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Evans-Pow...t-5-Litres-Prep-Fluid-5-Litres-/361306738202?
This article tells you some of the downsides of the coolant
http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm
Basically it's 100% Glycol or Propylene Glycol or a mix of the 2 . only a small amount of water in the system more than 3% will cause the formation of Glycolic acid which will cause corrosion. Which is why you need to make sure all the waters removed.
The biggy though is the specific heat capacity is a lot lower than traditional coolant mixes. So it doesn't remove heat as quickly and can lead to much hotter cylinder head temps during normal running. This means the fans will be running when normally they wouldn't be, The ECU's in petrol cars will ****** ignition timing at high engine temps so you will be loosing performance. Also the coolant is a lot more viscous which also contributes to inferior cooling.
I wouldn't use this in a car cooling system that wasn't designed to use it in the first place.
Using G12 or G12+ at 50/50 and changing it every 3-4 years will be fine for pretty much all vechicles. If this stuff was so good manufacturers would be using it.
Karl.
No attitude here fella.
I still can't see the point - your car won't reach the temperatures that a standard coolant can't handle as modern cooling systems are well designed. Older cars is another matter.
Regarding the corrosive nature of water - G12 already has additives which makes the corrosive properties inert. The only benefit is that the manufacturer of this waterless stuff say it doesn't need replacing....but it costs an absolute fortune so will probably be cheaper dumping your G12 every 2-4 years!
Mr Leno made a water plate out of aluminium - that was just plain stupid, of course it will corrode!
I still can't see the point - your car won't reach the temperatures that a standard coolant can't handle as modern cooling systems are well designed. Older cars is another matter.
Regarding the corrosive nature of water - G12 already has additives which makes the corrosive properties inert. The only benefit is that the manufacturer of this waterless stuff say it doesn't need replacing....but it costs an absolute fortune so will probably be cheaper dumping your G12 every 2-4 years!
Mr Leno made a water plate out of aluminium - that was just plain stupid, of course it will corrode!
Desertstorm is entirely right. According to some of the data I have read the specific heat is less than 70% of water, so cooling will be significantly affected. I wouldn't put it in a modern car or my Lotus from all the information I've seen. FYI I'm a Chartered Engineer and am involved with design of cooling systems amongst other things.
Zafi
Registered User
I use water wetter in my bikes, never need a fan.
I have had a bike in for repair which was run on Evans coolant and the cam was really worn, it was on an engine with the waterpump on the end of the cam, the coolant had migrated through the seals and stripped oil from the cam lobes.
It's too much faff and not enough benefit.
I have had a bike in for repair which was run on Evans coolant and the cam was really worn, it was on an engine with the waterpump on the end of the cam, the coolant had migrated through the seals and stripped oil from the cam lobes.
It's too much faff and not enough benefit.
Zafi
Registered User
I think the idea is it allows the engine to run hotter without boiling.
Water wetter makes the standard coolant transfer heat better.
Water wetter makes the standard coolant transfer heat better.
Quick Google search, as ever a products benefits seem to be exagerated.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/01/redline-waterwetter®-review/
Coolants have moved on in Recent years and the latest OAT based coolants G12 , G12+, G12 ++ and G13 are very effective in halting corrosion without any of the downsides. The very latest G13 coolant contains I believe 20% glycerin so is more green than the G12 coolants.
If the coolant is changed as per the manufacturers spec then you shouldn't have any issue.
Problems start when people don't change the coolant, or the car develops a leak and they just top up with water diluting the the concentration.
There are loads of resources on the net showing the effect of using different cooling fluids.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html
This is quite good and explains well the main topics discussed above and why good old water isn't so bad as long as you can stop it from freezing and corroding things.You can see another downside of pure ethylene or propylene glycol is it's freezing point.
It's a strange thing that the optimum ratio of water to coolant to get the best freeze protection is around 65% coolant to 35% water . but if you keep adding coolant you end up with the freezing point being worse. 100% coolant like Evans is will freeze at about -15.
Thats why manufacturers recommend 50/50 mixes for the best freeze protection against heat carrying capacity.
http://hellafunctional.com/?p=629
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/01/redline-waterwetter®-review/
They are selling it on the basis that without water you won't get corrosion and the product is supposed to last the life of the car so you never need to change it. When it was launched many years ago it had advantages over traditional blue Ethylene Glycol water mixes.
Coolants have moved on in Recent years and the latest OAT based coolants G12 , G12+, G12 ++ and G13 are very effective in halting corrosion without any of the downsides. The very latest G13 coolant contains I believe 20% glycerin so is more green than the G12 coolants.
If the coolant is changed as per the manufacturers spec then you shouldn't have any issue.
Problems start when people don't change the coolant, or the car develops a leak and they just top up with water diluting the the concentration.
There are loads of resources on the net showing the effect of using different cooling fluids.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html
This is quite good and explains well the main topics discussed above and why good old water isn't so bad as long as you can stop it from freezing and corroding things.You can see another downside of pure ethylene or propylene glycol is it's freezing point.
It's a strange thing that the optimum ratio of water to coolant to get the best freeze protection is around 65% coolant to 35% water . but if you keep adding coolant you end up with the freezing point being worse. 100% coolant like Evans is will freeze at about -15.
Thats why manufacturers recommend 50/50 mixes for the best freeze protection against heat carrying capacity.
http://hellafunctional.com/?p=629
