Please help, Audi A4 B7 2.0 Tdi S-Line engine issues

David Hagon

David Hagon

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Hi,
I got this car on Hire Purchase in January this year and it had problems from day one and now I'm in a situation where the car is undriveable.
I took the car back to the dealer 3 times each time being told a different story as to why I had flashing lights on the dashboard. The engine management light and the flashing glow plug light came back on shortly after the dealership had fixed the issues! Although they never actually replaced anything they seemed to have just cleared the fault codes.
The car has since been looked at by 3 other mechanics all of which can't specify what the problem is. They all read the same fault codes.
My symptoms up until today have been intermittent and by simply pulling over turning the engine off and on again, which I have to do everyday, seems to restore the engine back into some sort of life! Although the car lacks the performance you would expect at least it was still driveable.

My symptoms are:-
Engine management light on dashboard which has been on since the day after I picked up the car.
Flashing glow plug light on the dashboard
Engine is noisy and seems to be only firing on 3 cylinders until I turn engine off and on again.
Plumes of black smoke when accelerating.
Judders violently and stutters when hard accelerating, sometimes goes into limp mode.
Poor fuel consumption around 25-30 mpg

Today the intermittent problems have become a permanent feature, the car is now undriveable only firing on 3 cylinders even after turning the engine off and on again which has been keeping it going for the last few months!
I have tried the dealer where I got the car and they said it's out of warranty and they wanted nothing to do with it.
I have spoken to the Hire Purchase company who also said they want nothing to do with it.
I have spoken to as a last resort to the Financial Ombudsman.

Does anyone have any advice please?

Thanks in advance.

Dave.
 
If you know them, what are the fault codes the techs keep seeing?
 
if the problem hasnt been rectified since your ownership in this short period you need to speak to your local trading standards dept as there is clearly an issue with the condition of the car and it may well have been one prior to your ownership, you have rights even as a used car and the 3 month warranty has expired.
 
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A4Rob said:
if the problem hasnt been rectified since your ownership in this short period you need to speak to your local trading standards dept as there is clearly an issue with the condition of the car and it may well have been one prior to your ownership, you have rights even as a used car and the 3 month warranty has expired.
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for the quick reply.
I have spoken to the financial ombudsman and the finance company about my case and i'm waiting on their reply.
 
David Hagon said:
Hi, thanks for the quick reply,
16785
16955
18075
16686
01627
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Are these vcds codes?

I just typed your codes into the RossTech website (I believe theyre the best in the business for fault diagnosis equipment) to see what comes up...

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16785/P0401/001025

Looks like you've got a lot going on here !!!

Regards
Steve

16785/P0401/001025 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System: Insufficient Flow Detected
Possible Symptoms
  • Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
  • Reduced Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR)
  • Reduced Power Output/Engine running rough
  • Increased Emissions
Possible Causes
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Flow restricted/clogged
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve stuck closed/leaking/faulty
  • Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve faulty
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System faulty
Possible Solutions
  • Check/Clean Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
  • Check/Replace Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve
  • Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve
Special Notes
When this fault is stored in a 2009-2012 NAR market 2.0L CR TDI (CBEA, CJAA, CKRA) VW Jetta/Golf (1K/AJ) or the NMS Passat (A3) chassis:
  • Please see: TSB 26-13-03 | TPI# 2031583/3 (formerly know as 26-12-08 | TPI# 2031583). When the Exhaust Pressure Flap Control Module (J883) is faulty, the engine controller may have any of the following DTCs:
  • Some TDI-CR engines have a filter for the EGR that can become restricted and cause a "Insufficient Flow" code.

When this fault is stored in a 2009-2014 NAR market 2.0L CR TDI (CBEA or CJAA ) VW Jetta/Golf (1K/AJ)


16955/P0571/001393 - Brake Light Switch (F): Implausible Signal
Possible Symptoms
  • Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) active
  • Glow Plug Indicator Light active
  • Brake Light(s) not working
Possible Causes
  • Wiring and/or Connectors faulty
  • Fuse(s) faulty
  • Wrong Brake Light Bulb installed (21W instead of 5/21W)
  • Brake Light Bulb(s) faulty
  • Brake Light Switch (F) faulty
Possible Solutions
  • Check Wiring or Connectors
  • Check/Replace Fuse(s)
  • Check/Replace Brake Light Bulb(s)
  • Check/Replace Brake Switch (F)
Special Notes
  • Brake Light Switches (F) have the reputation of breaking quite often.
18075/P1667 - Valve for Pump - Jet: Cylinder 2 (N241): Electrical Malfunction
Possible Symptoms
  • Irregular rpm
Possible Causes
  • Wiring and/or connections to/from the Valve for Pump Jet
  • Valve for Pump Jet
Possible Solutions
  • Check wiring and Check / Clean all connections
  • Replace the cable-tree to/from all the Valves for Pump Jet
  • Replace Valve for Pump Jet (replace them all !)
Special Notes
  • For each Valve the ECU checks the Begin of Injection Period (BIP) via a voltage. That voltage is very small (less than 0.0001A). Each extra resistance in the cable is fatal. So, in case of any doubt, just replace all cables.

16686/P0302/000770 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
Possible Causes
  • Ignition system
  • Fuel injectors
  • Fuel pressure
  • Running out of fuel
  • EVAP canister purge valve
  • Evaporative emission system
  • Low compression
  • Base engine problems
  • Controle Module damaged
Special Notes
  • This feature search for engine misfire in a specific cylinder. Most of the time the cause for a misfire is a lack of combustion in a cylinder due to absence of spark, poor fuel metering, or poor compression.
01627 - Sensor for Parking-Aid; Front Mid-Right (G253): Open or Short to Ground
Possible Symptoms
  • Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
Possible Causes
  • Fuse(s) faulty
  • Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Front Mid-Right Parking-Aid Sensor (G253) faulty
  • Front Mid-Right Parking-Aid Sensor (G253) faulty
Possible Solutions
  • Check Fuse(s)
  • Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Front Mid-Right Parking-Aid Sensor (G253)
  • Check/Replace Front Mid-Right Parking-Aid Sensor (G253)
 
Get someone on the car that knows what they're doing aa 3 mechanics couldn't help, that sounds wrong for a start.

It will need parts to diagnose with tbh.
 
SDHA4SLine said:
Are these vcds codes?

I just typed your codes into the RossTech website (I believe theyre the best in the business for fault diagnosis equipment) to see what comes up...

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16785/P0401/001025

Looks like you've got a lot going on here !!!

Regards
Steve

16785/P0401/001025 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System: Insufficient Flow Detected
Possible Symptoms
  • Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
  • Reduced Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR)
  • Reduced Power Output/Engine running rough
  • Increased Emissions
Possible Causes
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Flow restricted/clogged
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve stuck closed/leaking/faulty
  • Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve faulty
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System faulty
Possible Solutions
  • Check/Clean Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
  • Check/Replace Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve
  • Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve
Special Notes
When this fault is stored in a 2009-2012 NAR market 2.0L CR TDI (CBEA, CJAA, CKRA) VW Jetta/Golf (1K/AJ) or the NMS Passat (A3) chassis:
  • Please see: TSB 26-13-03 | TPI# 2031583/3 (formerly know as 26-12-08 | TPI# 2031583). When the Exhaust Pressure Flap Control Module (J883) is faulty, the engine controller may have any of the following DTCs:
  • Some TDI-CR engines have a filter for the EGR that can become restricted and cause a "Insufficient Flow" code.

When this fault is stored in a 2009-2014 NAR market 2.0L CR TDI (CBEA or CJAA ) VW Jetta/Golf (1K/AJ)


16955/P0571/001393 - Brake Light Switch (F): Implausible Signal
Possible Symptoms
  • Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) active
  • Glow Plug Indicator Light active
  • Brake Light(s) not working
Possible Causes
  • Wiring and/or Connectors faulty
  • Fuse(s) faulty
  • Wrong Brake Light Bulb installed (21W instead of 5/21W)
  • Brake Light Bulb(s) faulty
  • Brake Light Switch (F) faulty
Possible Solutions
  • Check Wiring or Connectors
  • Check/Replace Fuse(s)
  • Check/Replace Brake Light Bulb(s)
  • Check/Replace Brake Switch (F)
Special Notes
  • Brake Light Switches (F) have the reputation of breaking quite often.
18075/P1667 - Valve for Pump - Jet: Cylinder 2 (N241): Electrical Malfunction
Possible Symptoms
  • Irregular rpm
Possible Causes
  • Wiring and/or connections to/from the Valve for Pump Jet
  • Valve for Pump Jet
Possible Solutions
  • Check wiring and Check / Clean all connections
  • Replace the cable-tree to/from all the Valves for Pump Jet
  • Replace Valve for Pump Jet (replace them all !)
Special Notes
  • For each Valve the ECU checks the Begin of Injection Period (BIP) via a voltage. That voltage is very small (less than 0.0001A). Each extra resistance in the cable is fatal. So, in case of any doubt, just replace all cables.

16686/P0302/000770 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
Possible Causes
  • Ignition system
  • Fuel injectors
  • Fuel pressure
  • Running out of fuel
  • EVAP canister purge valve
  • Evaporative emission system
  • Low compression
  • Base engine problems
  • Controle Module damaged
Special Notes
  • This feature search for engine misfire in a specific cylinder. Most of the time the cause for a misfire is a lack of combustion in a cylinder due to absence of spark, poor fuel metering, or poor compression.
01627 - Sensor for Parking-Aid; Front Mid-Right (G253): Open or Short to Ground
Possible Symptoms
  • Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
Possible Causes
  • Fuse(s) faulty
  • Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Front Mid-Right Parking-Aid Sensor (G253) faulty
  • Front Mid-Right Parking-Aid Sensor (G253) faulty
Possible Solutions
  • Check Fuse(s)
  • Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Front Mid-Right Parking-Aid Sensor (G253)
  • Check/Replace Front Mid-Right Parking-Aid Sensor (G253)
Click to expand...
Hi,
Thanks for the info. Where do i start? Obviously don't want to start replacing parts on a guess but would like to know what is actually wrong with it and what needs fixing. Have been told to replace egr,throttle body, inlet manifold, injectors, injector wiring loom, alternator, battery, parking sensor, brake switch and re-gas air con. One of the mechanics also said that there is a strange knocking sound coming from the engine and I should return to dealer. I have done so 3 times with no success.
 
NHN said:
Get someone on the car that knows what they're doing aa 3 mechanics couldn't help, that sounds wrong for a start.

It will need parts to diagnose with tbh.
Click to expand...
Hi,
I have tried many mechanics/technicians with the latest bluetooth diagnostic kits, vagcom kits etc. and they all say the same thing. None of them though said if you replace this part it will solve the problem. The dealer (just after the 3 month warranty had expired) quoted me £100 to replace the injector wiring loom and said it may or may not fix the problem! According to another garage (RAC approved) replacing the injector wiring would not fix the issues.
 
I'm thinking injectors ATM or loom as seems weird 3 cylinders down.

It can't be a simply swap this & it will fix the issue, its not one of those faults & tbh most aren't, it needs parts to test, only way forward.
 
NHN said:
I'm thinking injectors ATM or loom as seems weird 3 cylinders down.

It can't be a simply swap this & it will fix the issue, its not one of those faults & tbh most aren't, it needs parts to test, only way forward.
Click to expand...
Hi,
Unfortunately I'm no mechanic so buying parts to swap and test could turn out quite expensive for me and costs could spiral out of control.
 
David Hagon said:
Hi,
Thanks for the info. Where do i start? Obviously don't want to start replacing parts on a guess but would like to know what is actually wrong with it and what needs fixing. Have been told to replace egr,throttle body, inlet manifold, injectors, injector wiring loom, alternator, battery, parking sensor, brake switch and re-gas air con. One of the mechanics also said that there is a strange knocking sound coming from the engine and I should return to dealer. I have done so 3 times with no success.
Click to expand...

I doubt you would get any garage to give you a 100% guarantee that replacing some of the parts would 100% fix the problem. But if you're seeing these codes from vcds then its about as reliable as you can get for diagnosis. Most the above seem reasonable given the error codes you have though certainly not all at he same time. Id start with removing & cleaning your egr valve, inlet manifold and anti shudder valve to see if that clears some of your errors.

The one that'll kill your wallet will be the injectors, they're a ridiculous price to buy brand new. On this I would call two or three different audi main dealers to see if you have an outstanding recall for replacing injectors on your car. Many of the 2.0TDI engines had recalls for this, to be sure also try calling audi uk as its been known for dealers to tell you there is no recall even if there is because there isn't any money to be made on recalls.

Although they wont be the reason for your poor engine running, the alternator, battery, parking sensor and aircon re-gas are no brainers if you have used a decent garage then they should be able to tell you if any of these need fixing/replacing for definite, no if's or but's.

Regards
Steve
 
Where do you live? Someone could maybe recommend a decent independent & local garage to take a look.
 
SDHA4SLine said:
I doubt you would get any garage to give you a 100% guarantee that replacing some of the parts would 100% fix the problem. But if you're seeing these codes from vcds then its about as reliable as you can get for diagnosis. Most the above seem reasonable given the error codes you have though certainly not all at he same time. Id start with removing & cleaning your egr valve, inlet manifold and anti shudder valve to see if that clears some of your errors.

The one that'll kill your wallet will be the injectors, they're a ridiculous price to buy brand new. On this I would call two or three different audi main dealers to see if you have an outstanding recall for replacing injectors on your car. Many of the 2.0TDI engines had recalls for this, to be sure also try calling audi uk as its been known for dealers to tell you there is no recall even if there is because there isn't any money to be made on recalls.

Although they wont be the reason for your poor engine running, the alternator, battery, parking sensor and aircon re-gas are no brainers if you have used a decent garage then they should be able to tell you if any of these need fixing/replacing for definite, no if's or but's.

Regards
Steve
Click to expand...
Hi,
The local Audi garage said that there is no recall on this model, I explained my situation and their reply was "good luck with that!"
I had a look around the web for injectors and to replace all four which is recommended could cost in excess of £2000 including labour and other parts.
 
Albertstreetmotorsdiagnostics2
Albertstreetmotorsdiagnostics2
this is the diagnostics from RAC approved garage taken on the 18th June 2015
 
Gerrardsmotorsdiagnostics
this is the front page of a 6 page diagnostic report from the main dealer which they gave me the first time I returned the car back in January.
 
David Hagon said:
Hi,
The local Audi garage said that there is no recall on this model, I explained my situation and their reply was "good luck with that!"
I had a look around the web for injectors and to replace all four which is recommended could cost in excess of £2000 including labour and other parts.
Click to expand...
yep that sounds about right!
 
David Hagon said:
View attachment 67761 this is the front page of a 6 page diagnostic report from the main dealer which they gave me the first time I returned the car back in January.
Click to expand...

For this one, as said before get the EGR valve, inlet manifold & anti judder valve removed, cleaned and if possible bench tested. I had my egr valve removed , ultrasonically cleaned & bench tested at a local diesel specialist for about £40 a few months back. So to have the other two parts cleaned and tested isn't going to be much more on top of that. But if you feel like holding a spanner and removing these parts yourself its not a technical job at all. Took me about 2hrs the 1st time I removed my egr and inlet manifold, I reckon half that next time now I have the confidence.
 
SDHA4SLine said:
For this one, as said before get the EGR valve, inlet manifold & anti judder valve removed, cleaned and if possible bench tested. I had my egr valve removed , ultrasonically cleaned & bench tested at a local diesel specialist for about £40 a few months back. So to have the other two parts cleaned and tested isn't going to be much more on top of that. But if you feel like holding a spanner and removing these parts yourself its not a technical job at all. Took me about 2hrs the 1st time I removed my egr and inlet manifold, I reckon half that next time now I have the confidence.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree the egr, inlet and anti judder should be inspected, cleaned and if need be replaced. Shouldn't this have been done by the dealer on my numerous 100 mile round trips?
 
David Hagon said:
Yes I agree the egr, inlet and anti judder should be inspected, cleaned and if need be replaced. Shouldn't this have been done by the dealer on my numerous 100 mile round trips?
Click to expand...
I have no idea what is covered under your warranty so cant answer this for you.
 
SDHA4SLine said:
I have no idea what is covered under your warranty so cant answer this for you.
Click to expand...
Obviously, the warranty does not cover serious engine problems! This has been a nightmare for me since day one. I'm now stuck with a heap of scrap that still has 2 years of finance left on it. It didn't even make it to it's first service, the last 8 months I have been driving a car which works some of the time if I pull over and restart the engine, only to pull away stuttering and leaving a cloud of thick, black smoke. This is the first time I have got finance out on a car and I have to say my experience has been rubbish.
 
Update! I had a look at the engine today to see if there was anything obvious :/ and noticed that there is a long audible tone coming from inside the engine. Even when I take the key out of the ignition I can still hear it for about a minute. Sounds like some sort of warning/error beep.
 
Hi,

I read on a Finnish Audi forum of similar intermittent electrical problems that were related to the injectors. It manifested itself in error codes related to the injectors, rough running on only 3 cylinders and various electrical problems from the ESP disabling itself to the gauges turning off etc. The problem turned out to be loose injector connectors. They are apparently held on by some screws (at least that is what I understood from the post) and they were simply loose. Tightening them cured all the problems. And there were at least 2 -3 different people with the same problem and the same solution worked for all of them.

If the connectors are not loose, I would then suspect the wiring loom to the injectors. Hope this helps!

BR,

Jussi
 
Can you please specify what year your car is and is it 140 or 170hp diesel?
 
Judging from that diagnostic report, the engine is a BLB, which is a 140 hp PD unit I think..
 
jussis said:
Hi,

I read on a Finnish Audi forum of similar intermittent electrical problems that were related to the injectors. It manifested itself in error codes related to the injectors, rough running on only 3 cylinders and various electrical problems from the ESP disabling itself to the gauges turning off etc. The problem turned out to be loose injector connectors. They are apparently held on by some screws (at least that is what I understood from the post) and they were simply loose. Tightening them cured all the problems. And there were at least 2 -3 different people with the same problem and the same solution worked for all of them.

If the connectors are not loose, I would then suspect the wiring loom to the injectors. Hope this helps!

BR,

Jussi
Click to expand...
Hi, when the car is running on 4 cylinders there is a strange knocking sound coming from inside the engine.
 
The strange knocking noise sound might be related to the electrical problems. Perhaps the injectors are not firing properly. Or it is a entirely different problem not related to the error codes and symptoms you described here. I would first check the injector connectors because it is a simple and cheap check/fix. If the car is not running at all now, then it might be giving some additional error codes (you mentioned in the other thread that the engine is dead?).
 
Let me get this straight - you've had this car for 8 months and still the stealer who sold it to you is knocking you back?
Local trading standards, Citizen's Advice Bureaux and your finance company would be my first three ports of call.
 
Hi Dave,
read this:-

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...-car-you-bought/the-car-you-bought-is-faulty/

As you highlighted the problems to the dealer almost immeadiately they have to prove the car was fit for purpose before you took possesion by means of an independent report, which they obviously haven't got.
If they attempt to repair the vehicle and are unsuccessful they are still responsible and must either successfully repair it, replace it with a similar vehicle or refund you.

If you talk to the citizens advice, they will tell you to write to the dealer stating what is wrong and what you expect them to do, make sure you include details of what has happened already with regards to returning the car and them failing to fix it (with the dates). Also include references to the relevant sections of the Sale of Goods Act. Let them know they have ten days to respond. Send the letter by recorded delivery and keep a copy.

If they don't respond to your satisfaction within the ten days send them another recorded delivery letter stating you intend to take legal action if they don't resolve the situation. Then when those ten days pass take them to court.
Speak to your local citizens advice first, they're very helpful and will proof read letters before you send them to make sure you've included all the necessary information.

It could be a drawn out process but may be the only option if you've got a knackered car you can't drive and no way forward.

I've read that plumes of black smoke are down to unburnt fuel and that could be down to a leak on the turbo compressor side and associated pipework.

Good luck!
 
audi upgrades
Just waiting for reply from finance company before attempting any repairs. Thanks for all your advice.
 
Ok I have an update! I have managed to prove to the Financial Ombudsman that the problem with the engine was present when I purchased the car. The finance company have agreed to pay for the repairs and have also agreed to let me choose the garage to use. Result!!
I took the car to the garage and they got it going the same day. They took the cover off to expose the injector wiring loom and found that the plug for cylinder 2 injector was not connected! They also checked/tested the injectors and found them all to be working. At this point all seems good and well, but after picking up the car and driving it for 10 minutes the inevitable happened. First the engine management light came back on and not long after the coil light started flashing! Although the car drives a lot smoother without the jerking and stuttering down the road, I'm still getting sluggishness and plumes of black smoke when pulling away. The car feels just like the day after I first got the car. I'm going to take the car back to the garage early next week so will update again soon.
 
Good news that the finance company are taking responsibility for the repairs .
You need to take the car to a VAG specialist, AMD are in at Lakeside and are Au Fait with our cars.
 
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