Build Thread Apparently

Diego Rozas · Aug 22, 2015

Hi guys, i was reading on Audi-Sport and it has so much feedback that i choose to put my build here.

Hope we can get to help each other.

Bests :racer:

Car Info:
Audi S3 8P3 2013

Engine Info:
2.0 TFSI CDLA + APR Stage 3 GTX+

Mods already Installed:
-APR Stage 3 Kit GTX
-APR HPFP
-APR Carbonio Intake
-APR Intercooler
-APR Runner Flap Delete
-APR Valve Spring System + Supertech Valves Intake & Exhaust
-VF Engine Mount
-VF Transmision Mount
-VF Pendulum Mount
-Audi RS6/RS5 8 pot Brembo Calipers
-HP+ Hawk pads Front & Rear
-Front Rotors TTRS
-ECS Tuning Front & Rear Braided Lines
-Motul RBF 660
-Tyrolsport Rear DeadSet Rigid Subframe Collar Kit
-Tyrolsport Front DeadSet Rigid Subframe Collar Kit
-Neuspeed HalfEngine Cover Carbon Fiber, Trimmed to fit.
-Blistein shocks+ H&R Springs (Cup Kit)
-H&R Sway Bars
-Whiteline Rear End Link + Whiteline Front End Link
-Neuspeed Throttle Pipe
-Custom-made Non-res, Non-Cat Turbo-back exhaust with APR Tips
-Oz Ultrallegera 19" Black
-Pirelli Pzero 19"

Current Installing Mods:
-OSIR Carbon Fiber Wide Fender
-RS Style Parachoque delantero.
-SSP DSG DQ250 600ft/lb clutch pack
-SSP Transmisión Cooling system
-Tyrolsport Radiator
-Tyrolsport Master Cilinder Bracket
-Sensor MAP, MAF, TS, y mucho mas para mantener el auto al 100%
-Disco Delanteros TTRS (renovar ya que estaban agotados)
-APR Low Pressure Fueling System AWD
-VW Racing Coilover Streetplus+
-Integrated Engineering Intake Manifold (Red)
-Integrated Engineering Valve Cover (Red)
-Integrated Engineering Valve Guides
-Integrated Engineering Catch Can for Valve Cover
-Integrated Engineering Camber Plates
-Integrated Engineering Adjustable Cam Gear
-Integrated Engineering Press-Fit Timing Drive Gear
-Integrated Engineering Tuscan Rods
-MahleSport All Bearings
- JE PISTON FSR Thermal Barrier, Tuff Skirts, 83.0, CR 9.5:1
-ARP/IE FSI 2.0t Ultimate Bolt Kit.
-Fluidamprs Engine Damper 2.0tfsi
-Superpro Front Performance Control Arms
-Superpro Roll Center Adjustable Ball Joint
-Superpro Swar Bar Mounts to Chasis
-Ignition Projects Okada Plasma Direct

Future Mods:
Wavetrac Differential
Haldex Controller
APR Cast Downpipe (not released)
Downforce and Ground effect (dream) :shrug:

Any suggest? :sos:

Video?

Diego Rozas · Aug 22, 2015

Why did i go with 0.5 bore? Piston Ring Failures.

That big spot of oil, costed to the mechanic 4 hours of cleaning plus i had to use the extinguisher because after the big cloud of oil + coolant appear in my rear mirror when exactly the engine fails, i stopped very fast, opened the hood immediately and the fire just pick up. did a very fast actuation of extinguisher so didn't cause any problem at most 5 second on fire = no damage and no visual damage. So always keep it very close to you.

Small piece of the piston come off.

Small Damage to the Chamber walls i was feeling very relaxed at that time, knowing it wasn't a total disaster.

Miraculously didn't damage neither Turbo or valve system.

Here are the new parts required for the job, i added some other extra goods for the opportunity.

Cheers

freezebox · Aug 22, 2015

Wow.. awesome car

Diego Rozas · Aug 22, 2015

Thanks freeze box,

adding some photos of the engine beeing bored, i drop the engine in the best engine rectifier here in Chile.

Preparing the engine to be bored 0.5mm for perfect wall clearance and seal with the Piston. going with the full spec IE race piston with Tuff Skirt and Thermal barrier. as well Piston Rods with all small extra you could add.

For the perfect Wall boring a Torque Plate is always a must, so here you can see the
IE 1.8T 20V / 2.0T FSI TORQUE PLATE
That will add so much more precision to the boring, so im very calm that all will be fine.

Measurements prior to boring.

s3_trev · Aug 22, 2015

Impressive build! Lots of money thrown at this! Where is the DV return pipe from your intake? Have you relocated DV? Not a fan of those all black wheels (they look like big black holes) but very impressive car!

Diego Rozas · Aug 22, 2015

s3_trev said:
Impressive build! Lots of money thrown at this! Where is the DV return pipe from your intake? Have you relocated DV? Not a fan of those all black wheels (they look like big black holes) but very impressive car!

I have put it closer to the turbo and wastegate actuator like the APR original design, i though having a flat and interrupted air flow Turbo Outlet-Intercooler Pipes-Charge Pipe would improve in the Intercooler performance and overall numbers.

freezebox · Aug 22, 2015

How much bhp is this?

Diego Rozas · Aug 22, 2015

On 97octane These is
454 Bhp
593 Nm

Hope To improve it now with:
Fluidampr
Okada Plasma direct
APR LPFP
IE Intake manifold
New software for LPFP and manifold usage

S3Alex · Aug 22, 2015

Ola Diego.

Welcome to ASN.

That looks like an expensive lesson with the pistons.....what prompted the failure?....were they stock pistons and rings when the APR kit was fitted?

My engine had full bottom end rebuild before we went beyond 440bhp/440lbs,which was as much as we thought safe to go for at that stage,which was on a GT3071.
That has stood up very well through 2 further turbo upgrades,and I'm sure the rebuild on yours will be just the job.

IE have supplied a lot of parts for mine,and if you haven't already thought of it,an IE cam cover and catch can system would be very useful,plus WMI would help a lot.

P.S....don't waste your money on Okada coilpacks.
You will get a few bhp at peak rpm,where you would get far bigger gains from WMI for instance.

S3Alex · Aug 22, 2015

One other thing.....IE do have ported head facilities for the TFSi,but their own advice to me was I may not need it,and i thought that was extremely honest and upfront.

Without wishing to do them any harm at all,they were correct....the stock head and cams on mine worked fine up to well over 600bhp.

Diego Rozas · Aug 22, 2015

S3Alex said:
That looks like an expensive lesson with the pistons.....what prompted the failure?....were they stock pistons and rings when the APR kit was fitted?

IE have supplied a lot of parts for mine,and if you haven't already thought of it,an IE cam cover and catch can system would be very useful,plus WMI would help a lot.

P.S....don't waste your money on Okada coilpacks.
You will get a few bhp at peak rpm,where you would get far bigger gains from WMI for instance.

Hi Alex, i,m big fan of your build. I installed kit when the Car got 10.000km. The failure just happen at 32.000km it was with complete stock engine besides valves and springs.

I already purchased IE Cam cover and IE catch can
And are going in with the engine rebuild.

Thanks for the advice but already got them. What WMI is the best for IE manifold

Best regards

S3Alex · Aug 22, 2015

Thanks Diego,

OK...WMI kits......the very best is Aquamist,but I have an AEM kit which works very well,and does the job it's supposed to,without any fuss.

Any decent kit,such as AEM,Aquamist,Devils Own,will work with your manifold.
Set it to begin at 0.5bar,and max out at peak boost.

S3Alex · Aug 22, 2015

Another to hook up with here is Decked-S3 who has a very similar build to yours in many respects,and has a DSG conversion on his car,plus the APR GTX2867 kit.

You may find that AEM is easier to get and set up given your location,but i think any of them will make a big difference.

Diego Rozas · Aug 22, 2015

S3Alex said:
Another to hook up with here is Decked-S3 who has a very similar build to yours in many respects,and has a DSG conversion on his car,plus the APR GTX2867 kit.

You may find that AEM is easier to get and set up given your location,but i think any of them will make a big difference.

Im a bit scared of WMI i know how all the physics works, but not how yo use it.

Is necesary a new software calibration or, it will also get improvements without further needed adjustment?

What are the dificulties with aquamist? And what are the extra benefits of getting it?

Thanks for your help.

S3Alex · Aug 22, 2015

Diego Rozas said:
Im a bit scared of WMI i know how all the physics works, but not how yo use it.

Is necesary a new software calibration or, it will also get improvements without further needed adjustment?

What are the dificulties with aquamist? And what are the extra benefits of getting it?

Thanks for your help.

The Aquamist system needs mapping to get the best from it.
By that I mean the system's own controller,not the car's ECU.
It needs to be tied into the engine's timing and boost feeds.

For me,the AEM system works very well,without the need for any of that,and uses a straightforward stand alone controller,which is boost activated.
Ideally,you can then push the timing a bit,using the cooling and octane boosting effects to get more torque and a bit more bhp,with safety.
It does mean though that you need specific mapping to do that,and must use WMI .

A simpler way is to use WMI for it's cooling effects,and not specifically push the timing to use it.

Diego Rozas · Aug 22, 2015

S3Alex said:
The Aquamist system needs mapping to get the best from it.
A simpler way is to use WMI for it's cooling effects,and not specifically push the timing to use it.

Thanks S3Alex, my idea is to run the 100oct file, with W/M is that possible? or maybe too risky.

Here i add some work in the DSG, fitting the new clutch pack, new filter and housing and the new cooling system.

JimmyH · Aug 22, 2015

very impressive build.

tcardio · Aug 22, 2015

i love your toys! epic build! I just gonna say you don't need that rear apr badge. better stealth on the roadway and stealth parking to avoid the 5 finger discounters

S3Alex · Aug 23, 2015

It would certainly be possible,but you'd need to be very careful setting it up and being mindful of EGTs etc,as the 2867 is pushed pretty hard in this kit.

Diego Rozas · Aug 25, 2015

S3Alex said:
One other thing.....IE do have ported head facilities for the TFSi,but their own advice to me was I may not need it,and i thought that was extremely honest and upfront.

Without wishing to do them any harm at all,they were correct....the stock head and cams on mine worked fine up to well over 600bhp.

Alex, then a ported head, isn't going to show me bigger numbers with my setup? im very confused now, because i was hopping at minimum 40hp more or something... ? hope to get more information from you, thanks! :yahoo:

S3Alex · Aug 25, 2015

Diego Rozas said:
Alex, then a ported head, isn't going to show me bigger numbers with my setup? im very confused now, because i was hopping at minimum 40hp more or something... ? hope to get more information from you, thanks!

You may get bigger numbers,but strictly speaking,as I can get over 600bhp on a stock head with Ferrea valves,without EGT problems etc etc,I would speak to Cassidy at Integrated Engineering first.
Your setup on a smaller turbo is very different to mine,and I would expect higher EGTs so the results may be different.

S3Alex · Aug 25, 2015

I think also that porting the head is quite an expensive option at around £1200($2000) approximately,and the money could possibly get more power elsewhere,from a WMI kit for instance.

Mine can run much higher power at lower overall boost thanks to the turbo,and this again will make a difference,but I know that APR were unwilling to deviate at all from the spec on their kit.
We did ask them at one stage if they would consider looking at a map for mine and the answer was a flat no,as it was also from Revo.

You will find that the GTX2867 is pretty much maxed out at around 480bhp unless you run race fuel plus a lot of advance,plus WMI.

Diego Rozas · Aug 25, 2015

S3Alex said:
I think also that porting the head is quite an expensive option at around £1200($2000) approximately,and the money could possibly get more power elsewhere,from a WMI kit for instance.
Mine can run much higher power at lower overall boost thanks to the turbo,and this again will make a difference,but I know that APR were unwilling to deviate at all from the spec on their kit.
You will find that the GTX2867 is pretty much maxed out at around 480bhp unless you run race fuel plus a lot of advance,plus WMI.

Yes, is really bad that the turbo is maxed out at that low bhp, but if i go larger for example 3076, or 3576 since all my parts will be ready for punish, it will be almost the only part missing from tuning, and differential, haldex, and some other minor parts. LOL. Did you get any interest on ground downforce ? rear diffuser.. ?

By the way i already got all my train valve tuned and with APR, so is already for heavy duty use, but was geeking with the +% of Exhaust & Intake Air/Gas Flow improvements.

Thanks for all the information, it was very helpful.

S3Alex · Aug 25, 2015

Diego Rozas said:
Yes, is really bad that the turbo is maxed out at that low bhp, but if i go larger for example 3076, or 3576 since all my parts will be ready for punish, it will be almost the only part missing from tuning, and differential, haldex, and some other minor parts. LOL. Did you get any interest on ground downforce ? rear diffuser.. ?

By the way i already got all my train valve tuned and with APR, so is already for heavy duty use, but was geeking with the +% of Exhaust & Intake Air/Gas Flow improvements.

Thanks for all the information, it was very helpful.

I think the problem you will find with a bigger turbo is getting APR to support it,and I certainly wouldn't think of any changes until you'd got some sort of confirmation from them.

The other points with GTX35 turbos is that they are very large in size,and it all becomes a very tight fit,plus the manifold/turbo/exhaust siting has to be perfect.
This will give you an example of how tight everything is....

Your next problem will be fuelling.
The S3 injectors will max out somewhere around 450+bhp,and there are higher flow injectors available,both in RS4 and S3 patterns,but you will need to adjust the mapping.
APR will not look at RS4 injectors.

I have an 8 injector setup plus a race derived ECU to controll all of this.

Also,these solutions use an externally wastegated turbo,which the APR kit doesn't.

Diego Rozas · Aug 28, 2015

Some updates:

I need to modify oil squirters(these is the stock position):

Here you can see the piston that got clearance problems with oil squirters on some FSI blocks.

And the modification to the oil squirter, that we had to cut the side to slight rotate the angle:

And here you can see, the oil squirter cleareance with piston.

Now we can continue building.......

Bye!

S3Alex · Aug 29, 2015

It's all those little things you find that are so easy to fix,but potentially catastrophic to miss.

Well done and good luck with the rest of the build.

Diego Rozas · Aug 29, 2015

Some more photos of the build.

RedDejavu · Aug 29, 2015

This damn forum puts my finances at risk... just wanted to go S1 then S2 then S2+ now in the process of sorting out tte420 and who knows internals, coils, brakes next? Just cant resist when I see such awesome work you've done to your car. Really impressive and cant wait to see some videos of this monster

.

S3Alex · Aug 30, 2015

RedDejavu said:
This damn forum puts my finances at risk... just wanted to go S1 then S2 then S2+ now in the process of sorting out tte420 and who knows internals, coils, brakes next? Just cant resist when I see such awesome work you've done to your car. Really impressive and cant wait to see some videos of this monster .

This is true.

I started off thinking my car would stay untouched so to speak.
Thanks to ASN and VAGOC,that just didn't happen,and now that the TTE420 and APR 2867 kits have come to the market,things are only getting better for those of us wanting to get more from the 8P.

Back in the day,getting 200bhp/litre from an engine was difficult,expensive,and likely to end badly,and now it's practical,and can be an everyday drive.

Diego Rozas · Sep 3, 2015

Continuing building...

tomorrow they are fitting the engine to the car. To continue... LOL

S3Alex · Sep 3, 2015

I recognise that cam cover....looks good in red.

grchmason · Sep 3, 2015

Great work look forward to seeing it fitted

Diego Rozas · Sep 8, 2015

Thanks for the good feedback, it would be great you could tell me if is going all good and also if you can recommend any other updates, all the help is appreciated.

First of all i want to make a interruption for these incredible piece of Engineering.

Now continuing with the build, i haven't installed yet the Intake Manifold, since i have to break in the engine, and have to travel all the way to Argentina to have the proper software update.

And here is with the front installed.

What do you think about these new Front Bumper??? is the RS Style Front Bumper (Not RS3, but equal in some points), it resulted to be extremely good quality. It will improve the airflow to the DSG Radiator from SSP Performance

The aluminum middle bar is going to be painted with Black Plasti Dip.

Down the picture Blistein +H&R out, VW Racingline in

Adjustable rear suspension, VW RacingLine

The Front Camber Plate, fit perfectly but we have to cut the upper side i will provide further images on Wednesday.

Till next one!

S3Alex · Sep 8, 2015

Nice work Diego.

IE make some lovely stuff,and continue to develop bits for the 8P,which is great.
You'll be able to run WMI on that with no troubles,and squeeze a bit more from the engine,on that turbo.

I went for the Boulekos manifold for different reasons,but both are great pieces of car porn.

Diego Rozas · Oct 5, 2015

Little update is coming soon...

IE Camber Plates
IE Intake Manifold
SuperPro Control Arm
SuperPro Ball Joint
APR Mobile
OSIR C Frame - Carbon Fiber
OSIR Dual Pod - Carbon Fiber
Innovative Motorsports MTX-L (A/F Ratio)
Innovative Motorsports MTX-D (EGT)
New DEI Heatshields for all components

AND THE CHERRY OF THE CAKE

HJS Tuning-Catalyst 90950190, for 450hp and 90% Flow Efficiency
http://www.hjsna.com/hjs-hi-flow-200-c-p-s-i-universal-tuning-catalyst-hd-9095-0190/

Lot of OEM parts that have to be renewed.

Cheers

S3Alex · Oct 5, 2015

Good luck with that lot,Diego.

Should round the car off very nicely.

Ice man · Oct 5, 2015

Great Build! Parts Porn!

guile · Oct 6, 2015

Nice thread mate and an interesting read. Looks like some serious money has gone in to this...

guile · Oct 6, 2015

Also I have vwr suspension and planning on installing ground control top plates. I really didn't want to cut the car though, was yours 100% necessary or just your preference to cut for more adjustment?

Diego Rozas · Oct 6, 2015

guile said:
Also I have vwr suspension and planning on installing ground control top plates. I really didn't want to cut the car though, was yours 100% necessary or just your preference to cut for more adjustment?

In relation to Camber Plates, they are perfect add for our cars, IE and VWR are booth wonderful pieces of engineering, wouldn't consider any other brand, just the complete system like Clubsport or Tracksport.

It is always 100% necessary because the Nut that regulate the camber will go further than just the small opening that we got on 8P.
I will add some photos of my car how i did the grinder job but attached is a example that was my guide.

IMPORTANT: DONT GRINDE ANY NEAR THE WELD, ONLY IF YOU TOUCH THE WELD THE CHASIS WILL BE HARMED.

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