Big job?

Adam Madrid

Adam Madrid

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Hi, Im working in Switzerland for the next 4 weeks and yesterday ALL the coolant leaked out from my car! I went to the shops and came back to find a huge green puddle under the engine. I left it over night then drove it 5 mins back to where Im staying. The temp rose steadily but it was a short drive.

The leak appears to be at the front of the engine but behind the radiator. It drips down and dribbles off the sump.

I reckon it will be a big job as I'd have to take the bumper off, the radiator just to indentify where the leak is actually coming from. I cant see where it is exactly without taking things off.

As Im here for another month and have access to tools, do you think it is worth me having a go and ordering new parts on the internet and delivered here?

I dont want to get a garage to do the work as it will cost a bomb!!! Switzerland is NOT cheap!

I tried to fill up the coolant tank with just water to see where the leak was and it ran out in a few minutes. So whatever has broken has broken big time. There is no mayo in the oil cap or warning signs anywhere else. Im hoping its a pipe that has busted.

If its the water pump itself is that doable for me? I've never done a serpentine belt change before. I thought the water pump would only leak slightly not suddenly all at once??

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks.
 
What engine do have?if it's behind the radiator and dripping from the sump it could be a thermostat housing or a bottom coolant hose. Also I could be wrong but I think you need to be using g12 red/pink coolant
 
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You are right! It should be pink G12! I noticed this when I was investigating. Could this have caused a problem? I only bought the car 6 months ago. I guess that the only way to know is to take off the front bumper and radiator then see where the leak is. At least at the end of the day I will be flushing the system and replacing with pink G12.

Do I need any special tools to get the front off?. I have socket sets, screwdrivers etc.
 
Could be the water pump but i think it's behind the cam-belt and a big job if it is.
 
Hmmm. OK. On my next afternoon off I'll take the front off and get the cam belt covers removed. Then I can take a photo and post it here. If it is the water pump I might just bite the bullet and get a garage to do it. Im a skilled novice and whilst I am handy with tools and good with cars, I dont want to get anything wrong and cause more damage!

I'll read up on some guldes on here to take the bits off the front then attack my car soon!
 
If it is the pump you might as-well fit a new cam-belt and thermostat as i think that is behind the pump.
 
Is the belt change easy?

If Im taking all that stuff off to look at it I could order the bits online today and get a head start!
 
Have a look on you-tube at the job and make your own mind up as to big job or not.
 
Don't attempt the timing belt if you have no knowledge. This is a 4-5 hour job for a skilled mechanic on the V6 AKN engine. You need specialist locking tools, a decent timing belt (Continental), genuine water pump, tensioner, genuine thermostat, etc. Again a mechanic will check the bearings on the pulleys prior to reassembly for any play. I'd get the auxilliary drive belts changed at the same time given the labour involved.

If the car was running to temperature before the puddle appeared I doubt it's the water pump in my opinion. Even if it had failed, the fist sign is rising temperature. More likely its a perished rubber hose or corroded joint near the radiator. Drop the engine under tray and get the car jacked up (use axle stands of course) and get someone to add water to the coolant expansion tank while you can see where it's coming from.
 
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:iagree:
It is a big job and the old 'tippex' will not work properly.
You can get away with homemade tools - IF you know what you are doing.
(You need to lock the camshafts and crankshaft)
Once you have done the job, you need to re-calibrate (for want of a better phrase) the pump timing with VCDS
Also, as Spartacus68 said, buy decent parts, and that is for all the pulleys and tensioners too.
Do not , under any circumstances refit the old thermostat, or buy a rubbish one. If you do you will be taking the belt off again within a year or running constantly under-temp.
It will not be cheap, even for a DIY, however you will get 5 years out of the new parts.
 
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There is a great how-to video on youtube, it is for cambelt/tensioner; waterpump:


This guy is slick! You may need to roll back the video to get the start.

I would definitely find out whether it is a hose before I went the cambelt/waterpump route.
Also, if you are going to change to G12 or G13 make sure the cooling system is properly flushed after using the green stuff.

Good Luck!
 
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Hi Guys!,

Just checking in after 10 days of working hard and not touching the car!

I got a cash quote off a guy here for 3000 euros! Its switzerland! To do in a normal garage would be 4k !!!

No idea what the problem is yet but I have ordered a timing belt kit here: http://www.car-bock.de/Timing-Belt-Kit-with-water-pump-2500TDI-Audi-A4-8D-8E-A6-A8-VW-Passat-3B-3BG

I also ordered the sealing locking kit.

The timing kit with new coolant arrived yesterday and the locking kit should be here tomorrow.

I have my first day off in a while tomorrow so I will take the front of the car off and bits so I can actually see what the problem is.

If it isnt a pump or thermostat housing/seal then at least I have the kit to give to my garage at home in Spain where labour is much cheaper!!

I really do hope its a hose or something as this problem was sudden so hopefully a split hose or came loose.

I'll take pics tomorrow and let you all know what is wrong tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help so far!!!
 
audi upgrades
Thanks.. I hope so too! Im feverishly researching how to guides on the web to get confidence if I do have to do it and the only problem seems to be getting the timing right using a VCDS. I dont have one and hope that if I do the belt change then it will just be low mpg and wont cause damage.

Anyway! I'm praying for a busted hose. When I pour water into the coolant tank it will empty the tank in about a minute. Hopefully this means its a busted hose. I drove to Switzerland from Madrid in Spain and I had the air con on all the way. Maybe the high pressure in the cooling system caused lots of high pressure and a pipe just gave up?!?!?

I'll know soon!

I found this document on the tinterweb specific for my engine about using the right locking tools and how to do it all properly. Maybe someone will find it useful too?

https://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=...8Uj_sFcFwjcDsCyqa1DtVEQ&bvm=bv.98197061,d.aWw
 
OK, the front of the car is off as much as I can get. I can see all the belt and have taken the big fan off with the 32mm spanners. There is no sign of a water leak. I filled up the coolant tank and then watched it all drain out in 5 mins. It is not coming from the thermostat housing, its isnt coming from around the water pump. That I am sure about.

It is somewhere in that area and it dribbles down and over the side of the sump where it then drips/ dribbles off.

I have no idea what it is without taking off all the belts and looking behind a plate that i covering the area I need to look at.

I guess I have to take off all the belts now right? Then look again.

Are there any coolant hoses behind the plate?
 
Here is a photo.. not very helpful. As you might see, the coolant is coming from the front of the sump but a little comes from round the back too. Not much but a little.
IMG 2204
 
theres a wee hole in the water pump that acts as a drain if the bearings seal is compromised.

Whip the belt covers off and see if thats where its leaking from.
 
Could this hole drain 2 litres in 5 minutes if the coolant tank cap was off?? Theres a thunder storm happening at the moment and I packed up when it started.

I would only need to take off the fan belt to remove the plate that fully covers the water pump. Is the fan belt linked to the fuel pump?

Well.... doesnt really matter if it is. Either I fix it or its getting transported back to Spain from Switzerland on the insurance.
 
The fan belt just drives the auxiliary stuff.

The timing belt drives the injector pump and thats the belt thats probably behind the covers you havent removed yet.
 
OK, I got the cover off behind the aux belt. The water pump was seized up and leaking!

I used the locking set (locked cams, crankshaft and fuel pump injector) and took the timing bet off and changed the pump. I cleaned the surface of engine block for the new gasket so it was nice and clean, shiny etc. Pump installed fine but then I spent 2 hours trying to get the belt back on!

The tensioner is still locked with the pin and I can get the belt nearly on but I need just 2mm more slack and Im there . Please dont tell me after all this that I need another tool?

Is there a trick or system to getting it on right?

I've tried doing either sprocket first, camshaft first etc. I dont want to get to a situation where Im levering the belt on causing some damage!
 
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I'm not entirely familiar with the 2.5, but on some VAG engines you can unbolt one of the idler pulleys which gives you that bit of extra slack you need to get the belt on, then you reinstall the idler. On others you can unbolt the tensioner/damper and swing it out the way to give a little more slack.

Stick a pic of the belt routing up?
 
IMG 2263
Here is the set up just before I removed the timing belt.

Pin is already in the hydraulic tensioner.

Maybe I can undo the idler pulley and put that on last?

I have read a lot of posts and instruction guides that say to detach one of the cambelt sprockets but that needs a special tool! I doubt I can get that delivered here in time...I hope I can get a few more mm of slack to get the belt back on.

As I have the crankshaft locked, the pump injector locked and the locking plates in the camshaft I hope that it will run ok-ish. The fine tuning on a VCDS can wait until I get back to Spain (1000km away) and I'll happily live with lower mpg or slightly rougher running until then.

Any ideas would be most helpful!
 
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right, the belt has to be fitted in a particular order. You need all the slack to appear over where the main belt tensioner is, so fit the Sprocket first, then the right idler, pull tight and fit to cam pulley, round water pump and tight round the next cam pulley, so all the slack ends up between the sprocket and the left hand cam pulley where the tensioner is, then slip the belt onto the tensioner.

If you cant get the belt over the tensioner, you'll need to either unbolt it, or remove either the relay arm or hydraulic part to let the pulley swing round more to get the belt on.
 
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Brilliant!

That sounds close to the order I was trying to get it done. I was so close! I will spend the whole day doing it tomorrow and if need be remove the hydraulic tensioner or the relay arm or hydraulic part.

I will let you know how it all goes.

Many thanks Aragorn!!!
 
The new belt will be a slightly different length to the old one.
You need to take off both cam pulleys and refit them a little slack (not all the way on the taper) then when you put the belt on they rotate to fit the belt as there is no keyway.
This is one of the reasons you must use the camshaft and crankshaft locking tools. The old belt stretches ever so slightly and f you rotate anything to take up the 1/4 tooth of difference you put the valve timing out.
The cam pulleys are on a taper, so you really need a puller. Put a little tension on the puller and a sharp tap with a hammer should spring the pulley.
Try not to crack it off with the puller alone as you can stress the pulley and crack it.
 
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aragorn said:
looks like he's refiting the old belt to me!
Click to expand...

Oh dear,I would hope not - that could be an expensive error having gone this far!
Please also say there is a new OEM thermostat fitted?

I can understand the tensioners and idlers if they are not rough due to costs, although again having got to this point...
 
that was the old belt on. I took that pic at the start. New belt is on and looking good!
New waterpump, thermostat, idlers etc.

Now I have a new problem. How to set the IP tensioner. What are the pointers im supposed to align? I have the right tools from the sealey kit but no matter what I do I cant get any pointers to move at all!

Ive read instructions all over the internet but when I hold the nut and turn the allen ket counter clockwise the pointers (if Im looking at the right things) dont move???
IMG 2290
 
These are the instructions Im using. Can anyone give me step by step baby instructions.
I have no idea what pointers.
Should I be installing the belt so its really tight across the top so there is lots of slack for the tensioner to take up? Maybe I have too much slack where the tensioner is and when I tighten it no pointers move as it needs something to push back on it??

Screen Shot 2015 07 29 at 193021
 
aragorn said:
Looks like its a get-him-home fix rather than a proper rebuild though doesnt it?
Click to expand...
If I can get home I'll be happy! Doing this in a car park with limited tools... Still cheaper than paying 3k to a garage here! Any ideas on the pointers for the IP tensioner?
 
OK, I found the problem!!

It was the threaded bolt thing in the middle of the tensioner was not screwed tightly into the tensioner. So when I turned the allen key nothing happened.

Problem solved.

Its raining and getting dark now so I'll continue putting it all back together on random hours I get free.

At least I have done all the hard work and tricky stuff. lets just hope that when I come to start the car it does start and run OK. VCDS tuning can wait until I get back to Spain and my fair priced local garage!IMG 2294IMG 2291
 
If you've got this far yourself you certainly dont need a garage to complete the job!
 
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Thanks guys! I'm going to attack the car again tomorrow morning and finish putting the fan belt back on, connect the hoses and fill up. Then try and start it!

I just hope it starts and runs fine!

If it does then I'll let it get up to temperature to check for leaks etc. If all is ok then I'll move the car to a hosepipe and flush out the coolant system.

I'll be ok to check it's ok with just normal water will I? Should only be about 10 minutes running before I give it a flush out and refill with proper G12 coolant.
 
Don't forget to turn the engine by hand 2 full revolutions to make sure nothing is fouling.
 
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OK.. good news, bad news.

It starts fine and gets up to temp with no problems. I think the engine sounds fine and dandy.

When I went to drive it around the car park it goes into limp home mode after I turn around. All the gear lights go red and it wont go fast.

Any ideas?

Could it be that it registered a fault on the ECU when the water pump failed and now goes into limp home mode as it's not ben cleared?

Could I disconnect the battery to reset it or is there some other problem here that I caused when I changed the timing belt?
 
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