S3, Great bit of kit... (and build thread...sort of)

Alex, I'm hoping that with the RS3 setup designed for a car with 335bhp and the same weight (mine at 310 bhp) and an updated set of pads I should be ok. I know the RS3 setup on its own won't handle the track work I've read plenty on this on the RS3 forum but with a little sympathy from myself on track I should manage it.

I note your recommendation for the M1155, had these myself in my Lotus (before swapping to Carbone lorraine rc5+, again amazing pad but really is track only) and are superb can't argue with that, I found for my everyday they were just to much so only dropped them in a week or so before a track day and removed them again after, wish I had time for this now but it's never going to happen. Have to find that happy medium and hoping these are it.

I think what you're saying about a happy medium is just right....what suits one person may not suit another,and the 1155s certainly suit me better than the DS2500s did.

Brake wise,mine isn't a whole lot different to the RS3 with AP rotors and 6 pot calipers at the front,and DaveB's solution of uprated discs and pads at the rear.

What I found was that it was OK for around 5-6laps,and then just started to go off,and once I'd seen the front discs,it was clear that the DS2500s had done what Dave predicted and just given up.

You may have better luck in that yours won't have to deal with the extra speed from what was then 440bhp,but in fairness,I do like a fairly aggressive feel to the brakes.
 
I love days like today, firstly the weather's perfect for car washing and secondly the postie brought me these:


Figured it was perfect weather to put the S3's winter coat on...

So satisfying having a clean car, shame it never stays that way for long this time of year.

 
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After a good few days of testing tyre pressures I managed to strike a fair balance that I could get along with.
Running 38's all round, I can only assume that the sidewalls on the PS2's are somewhat stiffer than that on the Goodyears, checked the tyres after leaning on them a bit and really not rolling to the outside so going to leave them there.
 
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Its been a quiet time over the winter but with summer around the corner I thought it about time I had some more work done on the S and make an update on here.

Having moved house over the winter period I had to find myself a new garage to help look after my car. I did some asking around and found the guys at TT roadsports were about 35 minutes from me. I made a few calls and a few emails later and I booked her in for an intermediate service with the addition of 4x new coil pack (for piece of mind) and to have some goodies added to try and get rid of the dam*ed understeer.

The list of shiny new bits:

Eibach anti roll bars
powerflex dogbone bush
Superpro consol bushes (W.A.L.K but the superpro version)
Superpro wishbone bushes.
Full Hunter alignment

Looks something like this when laid out

Front subframe off

New bar fitted

Consol bushes fitted

Dog bone bush fitted

Alignment sheet

All in all a very enjoyable day, TT Roadsports facilities are top notch as is the service and attention to detail.

So to the important stuff and a review of the kit fitted.
Straight out of the car park the steering had an increased weight around centre, there was an obvious increase in resistance/stiffness across the front axle as one wheel weighted on the camber change out at the shop exit as would be expected. On the straight away the increased weight and sensitivity around centre was a revelation, the vague, dull, numb, unresponsive feel of the standard setup in this state has all but gone, I wouldn't want any more than this in a road car, had there been a little toe out on the front wheels it would have been over sensitive and could make the car feel a little nervous. As bend radius tightens the weighting on the steering increases proportionally to input giving good feedback through the wheel, small imperfections and road surface can now be felt, a positive symptom of removing some compliance in the bushes.
Apart from the above improvement in feel the other main improvement comes in higher speed direction change (where lateral tyre loading isn’t anywhere above about 60%), again, the smallest input is now responded to immediately and it inspires confidence with the front feeling positive with no tendency to push. Linked with this another positive, the rear feels a lot lighter yet still planted, I have not had chance to push really hard yet but I could imagine being able to increase the yaw rate by trail braking and pivoting the rear of the car around, something never possible before.

However, the slower speed tighter radius turns where you really lean on the front corner/tyre there is little improvement at all, yes the car sits flatter but in out and out grip from the front i feel no improvement. I do know why this is and it was the very reason I was interested in the powerflex ball joints (for camber adjustment which I now which I had opted for). At these speeds the roll bars and bushes cannot really help, the tyre is simply rolled onto its outer edge, the only cure here is additional negative camber, it's a totally geometrically limited situation in the S3.

To sum up, it’s a great little handling upgrade, I would say 90% of owners would be very happy with the setup I now have. I just need that extra 10% and the ball joints would have gotten me somewhere close.
 
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After a good few days of testing tyre pressures I managed to strike a fair balance that I could get along with.
Running 38's all round, I can only assume that the sidewalls on the PS2's are somewhat stiffer than that on the Goodyears, checked the tyres after leaning on them a bit and really not rolling to the outside so going to leave them there.

Ive found 38psi all round now to be a good setting for my P3's. 235/40/18 on standard S3 rims 2010. 225's needed 40 to feel the same.
 
However, the slower speed tighter radius turns where you really lean on the front corner/tyre there is little improvement at all, yes the car sits flatter but in out and out grip from the front i feel no improvement. I do know why this is and it was the very reason I was interested in the powerflex ball joints (for camber adjustment which I now which I had opted for). At these speeds the roll bars and bushes cannot really help, the tyre is simply rolled onto its outer edge, the only cure here is additional negative camber, it's a totally geometrically limited situation in the S3.

To sum up, it’s a great little handling upgrade, I would say 90% of owners would be very happy with the setup I now have. I just need that extra 10% and the ball joints would have gotten me somewhere close.

Yes...a good upgrade,and as you say,about the limit of what can be done without a LOT of work to alter camber settings.

That unfortunately,was the position I found myself in,having done all of the upgrades you have,and then had to resort to fully adustable suspension to get control over camber.
 
Ive found 38psi all round now to be a good setting for my P3's. 235/40/18 on standard S3 rims 2010. 225's needed 40 to feel the same.
Its good to know that someone else has come to a similar conclusion even if we do have disimilar tyre sizes.
 
Yes...a good upgrade,and as you say,about the limit of what can be done without a LOT of work to alter camber settings.

That unfortunately,was the position I found myself in,having done all of the upgrades you have,and then had to resort to fully adustable suspension to get control over camber.
I'm not sure where to go next with this really, i wonder if the ball joints would go far enough or if like you i may have to take the plunge and go all out with an adjustable suspension and top mount setup. Hmmm decisions decisions.
 
I'm not sure where to go next with this really, i wonder if the ball joints would go far enough or if like you i may have to take the plunge and go all out with an adjustable suspension and top mount setup. Hmmm decisions decisions.

I'd certainly try the lower cost options first,inc TTS track control arms,which might give a little bit more camber if I'm correct on that,but to get what I wanted,there really wasn't any choice other than adjustable topmounts and new suspension.

The rears are able to give more negative camber than you would ever need,without anything special,but it's the front setup that has no real scope for adjustment.
 
I'd certainly try the lower cost options first,inc TTS track control arms,which might give a little bit more camber if I'm correct on that,but to get what I wanted,there really wasn't any choice other than adjustable topmounts and new suspension.

The rears are able to give more negative camber than you would ever need,without anything special,but it's the front setup that has no real scope for adjustment.
The superpro ball joints do the same thing as the TTS arms I think but dont quote me, they are slotted to allow the extra camber adjustement push the bottom of the wheel out. I think i may go this way first, just annoyed with myself I didnt just do it while the S was in the shop, could have saved myself a lot of labour and another alignment session. Good advise as always Alex.
 
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The superpro ball joints do the same thing as the TTS arms I think but dont quote me, they are slotted to allow the extra camber adjustement push the bottom of the wheel out. I think i may go this way first, just annoyed with myself I didnt just do it while the S was in the shop, could have saved myself a lot of labour and another alignment session. Good advise as always Alex.

Good point...I've got the Superpro kit on mine,plus VWR mounts,and ended up with kW Clubsport suspension as the only way of getting a few degrees of camber.

I've not gone too far,and settled for about 2 degrees which definitely improves things,but does make it a bit more fidgety as you'd expect,in a straight line.
 
You you need to change your camber at the front in order to get better turn in and reduce understeer even more. Anything up to -1.7deg, which is about the max you can get with adjustable ball joints and a small drop without adjustable topmounts like alex. This should be fine for wear. Set the back to -1deg camber or there abouts with 0 toe. A touch of toe out at the front would help further but you will increase tyre scrub and wear.
 
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You you need to change your camber at the front in order to get better turn in and reduce understeer even more. Anything up to -1.7deg, which is about the max you can get with adjustable ball joints and a small drop without adjustable topmounts like alex. This should be fine for wear. Set the back to -1deg camber or there abouts with 0 toe. A touch of toe out at the front would help further but you will increase tyre scrub and wear.
Ball joints it is then, knew I should have added them to the list while it was in at Roadsports. Cheers
 
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Small cosmetic update. Had a small scuff on my front bumper and drivers side wing as a div scraped across it in a car park. Took her to my local recommended painter Classic and Performance in Harpenden. Figured while she was in I'd have the grill painted.

 
After some more driving around and further frustration at my decision not to fit the Superpro ball joints I had chance yesterday to take the S back to TTS Roadsports and have MY mistake rectified. As always Dave and the team fitted me in at short notice and sorted me out. I had a few other jobs done while I was at it:
  • Superpro Ball joint upgrade
  • Full hunter alignment
  • Discs and pads fitted all round, DS2500's
  • TTRS brake cooling mod (which fits the S3 8P for anyone interested)
  • Millers oils performance brake fluid
  • Replacement intercooler seal (they noted it was misting slightly last time I was in)
As it turns out it was well worth the investment. The ball joints do exactly as i had hoped, slow speed highly loaded cornering it now a joy, of course you can still push it into understeer but the difference is you can control the yaw angle and pivot it around the front at will no histrionics. It has transformed the chassis, it actually feels alive it does what its told and puts a huge smile on your face. I could go on an on about how incredible the transformation is but all I need say is I love it.

For anyone interested in my final alignment settings:
 
So the S have been revo'd. Well an intake at least, I bit the bullet and went for it. Wonderful sound, made me smile all the way home.
Only downside I can see is that the K04 is one ugly engine without and engine cover so had to get medieval and modify the original engine cover. Works well though and keeps it all neat and tidy under there.Took me a little under an hour to make the modification and well worth it.



 
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Somewhat annoyingly I lightly scuffed my passenger side front wheel about a month ago, been bugging me everytime I wash the car so to use an unfortunate incident to talk myself into spending yet more money i decided to have all four wheel refurbished.
Dropped her off at letchworth Diamond Wheels, went back at 6pm and hey presto spangly new shiny rims. They've done a lovely job, full chemical strip, dress and respray, just the ticket. Had them finished in BBS silver just to add some extra brightness to them.

Lovely.


 
I know 99% of you will have it by now....

Stage 2+ Baby!

With a couple of boring extras, like a haldex service, rear wheel spacers and a new rear wash wipe unit.
I had no idea the standard downpipe was so dam£ed ugly.
 
There you go.....but you know where this leads.....
 
I've seen it on here many times, now its my own long and slippery slope....I'd already had my 'right thats it no more' talk to myself/ A week later I was surfing again wondering what else I could do. So i know i cant beat my addiction so might as well embrace it.
Intercooler next on the list, and already entertaining the idea of a TTE420, which if I'm honest means I've probably already sold it to myself...
 
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Simon at TTE is a great guy,and very honest about the results they've had from previous fittings of their various turbos.

If I was looking now for something like this,his would be the company I'd go to.
 
Alex, If simon comes with your endoresment he'll certainly be my first point of contact. Think next month will bring the addition of an intercooler, having read up a little on this I am swaying towards the THS, available at a good price, good size core and appears to have good flow characteristics with fairly low pressure drops.Open to anyone covincing me otherwise...although I'll not be throwing Peron money at it, as much as I would like to dream about it. I do like having something to look forward to.
 
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Alex, If simon comes with your endoresment he'll certainly be my first point of contact. Think next month will bring the addition of an intercooler, having read up a little on this I am swaying towards the THS, available at a good price, good size core and appears to have good flow characteristics with fairly low pressure drops.Open to anyone covincing me otherwise...although I'll not be throwing Peron money at it, as much as I would like to dream about it. I do like having something to look forward to.


Simon is a top guy.....I'd recommend him to anyone.

Honest and upfront,and when he was working for a different company,gave me a lot of free,straightforward advice,even when he knew it wouldn't lead to a sale.
That's good.
 
So a 'base' stage 2+ didnt last so long, still awesome but the spending bug has me again.
After some discussion and much searching I stepped up and ordered a Wagner Intercooler. It appears to offer everything i want at a reasonable price. So the S will be heading back to TTS on the 9th July for the intercooler fit and a map tweak. Not had the bottle to start playing with the SPS yet, more research needed on this before I trust myself.
Presently my settings are B7 T4 F7. Initially my feeling is i can pop the Timing up to 5 as I never use anything other than 98/99 but happy to take any opinions on that. Once I get the SPS loaded up (only have a Macbook, ordered a mini laptop just for SPS and VCDS) I'll be able to push this a little more as i can have a specific 95Ron setting.

Anyway looking forward to the 9th,
 
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Your car is a mirror image of mine mate, looks lovely.. Also for reference I use B9 T5 F9.
 
Your car is a mirror image of mine mate, looks lovely.. Also for reference I use B9 T5 F9.
I just took a look at your signiture strip and your right, nearly an exact mirror. Interesting to know that your running those settings, i had mine wound down a little as wasnt sure how the BCS downpipe with standard Cat back might affect EGT's. Good to know I can move it up a notch or two with no problems. Do you have a build/progress thread S3_Mat?
 
It's amazing, even with all the care you can take when washing and cleaning her car you end up with paint like this...


 
Good job there are ways to rectify this... In this case, Prestige Detail to the rescue. Was just to much damage for me to take the time to sort.



 
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And what a beautiful looking gift it is too. Cant get over the size of it compared to the standard unit.

Not long now.
 
Does look good.

Then the real slippery slope begins.....
 
So all done logged and Revo settings adjusted, now set at B8 T5 F7. Shame I didn't have her logged when I had all the stage 2+ work done, I could have seen what difference the Wagner made.

So who needs an S3 intercooler? I have one spare
 
lovely car mate! gloss grill looks great. Wondering if you also got the fog grills painted to match?
 
lovely car mate! gloss grill looks great. Wondering if you also got the fog grills painted to match?
Thanks very much, it's getting there ☺️ I never really thought of painting the fog grills, bit late for me to do them now but I like the idea. Don't suppose it would be a real problem to paint them, a lot of people plasti-dipping grills and the like on here.
 
Does look good.

Then the real slippery slope begins.....

This slippery slope you speak of...steep isnt it...and teflon coated apparently. Might have ordered a few exra goodies, first of which:

- The rest of the BCS exhaust system to complement the 200CEL downpipe, went for the sports prestige variety on this one, getting old you see. I realised after a while of running with the BCS downpipe that the standard rear section although not overly restrictive at stage 2+ it probably isnt much quieter than a full on system so why not just got for it. Plus I needed it for another reason... see below.

- Rs4 fuel valve...because why not

And the final piece of my puzzle from a very helpful gman86 (Graham):

- TTE420 turbo with:
- Lightened turbine
- Port matched runners
- Stage 2 actuator spring.

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Downside, BCS are on holiday until the 10th August on summer shutdown so I'll not be seeing the exhaust until end of the month. 2nd issue, I have to do the turbo separately from the exhaust and valve as can only spare the car 1 day at a time. So that wont be fitted until early september. Still something to look forward to hey?...
 
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I'm pretty well down the slope,but still going.

You know where this all leads....
 

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