Hypothetically speaking, and please tell me if this is completely ridiculous...could you not get a backup factory ECU and simply swap it out if you ever needed to?
APR Stage 1 - S3
- Thread starter Dandanfings
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Not ridiculous, but also not possible. The ECU, key, and cluster must all be coded together. Switching the ECU would break the trifecta, thus immobilising the car. To adapt that "new" ecu to the key and cluster, the car has to be reflashed via the dealership which overwrites the software
Your signature says you're stage 1 now. How would you assess the efficiency mode throttle input with our software?
roadrunner_oz
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Yes, installed the APR S1 a few days ago...Awesome tune! Can't say that I have ever used the 'Efficiency' mode, but others in Oz have been asking me...suppose I'll give it a try todayYour signature says you're stage 1 now. How would you assess the efficiency mode throttle input with our software?
roadrunner_oz
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Evan can confirm, but APR in Oz told me the flash counter is reset to what it was prior. By the current TD1 flagging process it won't be flagged if flashed back to OE, but Audi may be able to evolve the process.
Already posted, but here is Audi's post to dealers:
Protect your business by identifying chip-tuned vehicles
05 March 2015
Updated - Make sure your service advisors and technicians check for modifications
AU0173-12
Feedback from DISS reports indicates that our networks are seeing more vehicles that have had non-approved power-enhancing modifications made to them by customers (often called ‘chip tuning’).
Make sure your service advisors and technicians check for modifications before starting any work or repairs.
Warranty policy
The warranty policy guide states that vehicle modifications are not condoned and may result in the vehicle’s warranty on parts related to these enhancements being compromised or revoked.
Section one of the warranty policy guide states:
Our products are sometimes subjected to modifications by their owners. When assessing a warranty claim, it must be carefully ascertained whether, from the technical viewpoint, a connection exists between the modification and the damage. For example, a claim regarding the paintwork cannot be rejected because the vehicle concerned has been fitted with a more powerful engine.
Warranty code indicates if vehicle has been modified
The Group Factories have programmed their service systems to indicate if a vehicle has been tuned or modified. Warranty code ‘TD1’ will appear against the vehicle if it has been modified.
This code is identified whenever a request is sent to the software version management database from the vehicle, encrypted data from the engine ECU is sent in with the request which can be used to determine if the engine control unit mapping has been modified – TD1 is displayed in the Elsa system within 10 seconds.
When you should check for this code
When booking a service: We recommend service advisors check for code TD1 in ElsaPro when booking vehicles in for services (part of the Service Core Process) so your business does not submit warranty or goodwill claims that are later rejected.
Before starting any repairs: We recommend that, when the vehicle is connected to diagnostic equipment, the technician also checks ElsaPro for this code before carrying out any repairs, in case the code hasn’t been identified by the service reception.
To do this, you can:
- Complete initial GFF with online connection established. Check the software level online via the specified/actual comparison function to identify possible engine chip tuning (TD1) and make sure the online auto upload correctly concludes
The service systems are updated within 10 seconds of the VAS machine communicating with the Factory servers, so there will be a short delay in the checking process.
What to do if the code appears against a vehicle
If code TD1 appears in the vehicle’s records, you must ask the customer what modifications have been made to the vehicle. You should also warn the customer that any repairs required might not be covered by the manufacturer if the diagnosed defect is related to the modification.
How to use service systems to check for code TD1
Guided fault finding (GFF) – checking vehicle software:
- Specified/actual comparison
- Problem-related update
- Code for vehicle modification
- Problem-related update
You only need to check current software for the TD1 code to log, if applicable.
How to identify code TD1 in ElsaPro:
How to identify the TD1 code in SAGA/2:
How to identify the TD1 code in DISS:
Q&A
Q. The TD1 code is displayed, but the customer says that no performance enhancements have been made to his/her vehicle. How can you check what has been modified?
A. Only the manufacturer can check if the car has been modified. To do this, the control unit would have to be removed and sent to the manufacturer for testing. This process could take several weeks, and the customer would be charged for the cost of the testing. This cost could not be claimed under warranty or as goodwill.
Q. Can the TD1 code be reversed?
A. Yes. If an approved software update is detected and applied during the diagnosis process, the TD1 code will be removed from our service systems.
Q. If the vehicle has not been online to the SVM database before but an online log has been sent, will this be enough to initiate the TD1 code?
A. No. The encrypted data can only be sent to SVM using the process stated above. The online diagnostic protocol is not part of this identification process.
Q. Is the TD1 code sent to the 5051 tester?
A. No. Currently, there is no message on the diagnostic machine to indicate that the ECU mapping has been altered. It must be checked as stated in the bulletin (Elsa/SAGA2).
Q. Will the data be sent as part of an online key adaption, or other immobiliser work, related to the engine ECU?
A. No. The FAZIT database for online immobiliser adaption has no affect on this process. Only the software version management database can decrypt the data sent by the ECU.
I installed the APR S1 today on my S3 sedan (Australia).... simply awesome
Hehe, nice to see you here roadrunner..beep beep
No. I've stated multiple times in here that we do not advertise TD1-free software. We can only suggest methods that should work, but absolutely cannot guarantee.
roadrunner_oz
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This whole obsession with TD1 is tiresome. If owners are so concerned about their warranties then don't tune during the warranty period. It is that simple.
roadrunner_oz
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I can confirm....No DSG issue in efficiency modeYour signature says you're stage 1 now. How would you assess the efficiency mode throttle input with our software?
Dandanfings
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Steph67
Renowned philanthropist and pathological liar
Stage 1 for the S3 is being officially released this week, but available now on request.
Ecotune in Glasgow had one on their dyno this morning, results below.
Pulls like a train, blindingly quick, smooth as stock. It's an event to drive!
Nice....
Ecotune in Glasgow had one on their dyno this morning, results below.
Pulls like a train, blindingly quick, smooth as stock. It's an event to drive!
Nice....
Where'd you get that info?
It's actually the same calibration on all of the cars that have posted in here. I will be working directly with Dan on the symptoms he's experiencing.
ThatOneDude
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370 hp and 407 tq on a simple plug n play stage 1 turbo 4 banger. Tell that to someone 15 years ago and they woulda thought you were bonkers. that's more hp/tq than a C5 Corvette. I've got a lightly modified 91 Supra Turbo and it's at about 300hp or thereabouts and pulls like a beast but it's a 3.0 inline Six. A stage 1 S3 would destroy me. We've come a long way in a very short time.
Dandanfings
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Where'd you get that info?
It's actually the same calibration on all of the cars that have posted in here. I will be working directly with Dan on the symptoms he's experiencing.
I do believe that my symptoms just effect me, it's very unusual and tbh doesn't bother me too much as I just drive in dynamic mode all the time.
Obviously in the long term it needs to be addressed, hopefully a stage 2 flash will cure it ;-)
Where'd you get that info?
It's actually the same calibration on all of the cars that have posted in here. I will be working directly with Dan on the symptoms he's experiencing.
Hi Evan,
Ok, the Tune Roadrunner has is the one released in Australia after APR officially launched here, the one Dan is running I believe was the first UK customer car flash under the R&D banner? So you are saying that's its actually the same code with no differences to the flash that the UK will now have as generally available?
roadrunner_oz
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Dynamic gearbox mode annoys me... holds the gears too long and doesn't change up when you have finished accelerating and on a steady throttle. Auto mode does the opposite and changes way too quickly, rushing through to get to 6th. IMO Manual mode is best for spirited driving. Bring on the APR DSG tune
Hello from Athens Greece!any issues on the efficiency mode?when you engage again?what about launch control?and generally anything you are disappointed so far?I installed the APR S1 today on my S3 sedan (Australia).... simply awesome
Dandanfings
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Stage 1 for the S3 is being officially released this week, but available now on request.
Ecotune in Glasgow had one on their dyno this morning, results below.
Pulls like a train, blindingly quick, smooth as stock. It's an event to drive!
Nice....
View attachment 55107
DSG or manual?
Steph67
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Steph67
Renowned philanthropist and pathological liar
Just don't tell her.
Separate accounts Andy. Saving marriages for generations........
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I have a separate account and always divide the cost of car parts or hi-fi by a factor of 2 or more depending on what I think might be believed.
I agree DYNAMIC mode 24/7!
APR Intake and Stage1 combo should be a discounted package APR offers!
I ag
rre, I am interested if there is a discount...is it possible?can Evan activate such a discount?
Dandanfings
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Dandanfings
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I mentioned it was getting stronger right?
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I know it's still early, but on my previous S3 8p3 (2009 S-tronic) I was running 370bhp with no problems... on an engine that was designed over 10 years ago!!! Let's hope this engine is a tuneable and reliable as the previous incarnation.
Steph67
Renowned philanthropist and pathological liar
I mentioned it was getting stronger right?
Was this on a different dyno from the original run?
Dandanfings
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different dyno so yes there will be differences.
downpipe fitted tomorrow but wont be able to dyno for a month or so
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I know it's still early, but on my previous S3 8p3 (2009 S-tronic) I was running 370bhp with no problems... on an engine that was designed over 10 years ago!!! Let's hope this engine is a tuneable and reliable as the previous incarnation.
There's no reason why the block shouldn't be as good as before,although the wall thickness has been reduced AFAIK.
That aside,the big tuning problem will be that integrated head and manifold design,and what flexibility it allows in terms of aftermarket turbos.
Then you have the available injector sizes,and what will fit and integrate into the existing ECU plus software.
Don't get me wrong,it's surely not beyond the major developers,but it won't be as easy as the 8P was to tune,and this is already evident in the time taken for software development.
Getting 500bhp from the 8P is practical but not cheap,and even at that level things like exhaust manifold flow were becoming an issue.
You do have the advantage of a combined direct/indirect injector system,and the fact that the software/ECU combination is designed with that in mind,but a lot of other hurdles to be overcome before it gets to the level of the older engine.
Of course,the 8P was in this position a few years back,when compared to the 8L.
different dyno so yes there will be differences.
downpipe fitted tomorrow but wont be able to dyno for a month or so
Thanks for this Dan now I want the APR intake and stage 1.
Had a stage 2 mk5 golf GTI with full turbo back decat prestige exhaust from BCS. Was one of the first people in the UK to get it. Was well impressed with the quality of BCS manufacturing workmanship and materials. And also a pleasure to deal with Nige and Dave.
Loved the golf too but the S3 is in another league.
