APR Stage 1 - S3

Evan@APR said:
TD1 has been circumvented thus far by returning cars back to stock software, which is true for most aftermarket tuning companies. .
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When you say thus far are you including S3 8Vs in this? If so, are there any cases where a car has been back for warranty work after having been at Stage 1 and not had TD1?
 
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TD1 has existed in non-EU markets for several years now, so my comment above is a comprehensive observation of various makes and models in different markets. I can't say definitively how it will work with the 8V S3, but I presume it's the same as it has been.
 
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So when is the commercial software going to be released to the general public? I'm dying to give you my money!!!
 
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With respect, I was looking to get a date from Evan at APR, not asking for directions to some boring *** thread about warranty claims
 
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With respect, my post wasn't directed at you. It was following on from the previous posts about TD1 and warranty.
 
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audi upgrades
Great video, thanks for the review!
 
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jasso86 said:
I wonder if they use the same scanning methods in Mexico and can flag TD1.. hmm
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Well the dealer told me that all the instances of my 'adaptive light failure' were logged on the car so they don't have to be able to reproduce the fault.

If I were designing a car, and it could already log historical faults like this, I'd also periodically store things like max revs, max boost pressure etc. for diagnostics as well...
 
getting side tracked with TD1 guys.
It has been discussed to death and the answer is yes dealers maybe able to see the car is remapped thus voiding your warranty... if i hear one more person bring up 'ohhh but TD1' i might lose my sanity!
Regardless of them being able to see on a computer screen that your car is mapped, if they were to drive the car for longer than 10 seconds having driven a stock car at some point they will know instantly as the difference to stock is like driving a different car.
 
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Just thought i update you.
Its getting faster and more responsive, i think its leveled off now but still its pretty frightening how fast it is now!
 

Feels like your avoiding this one mate...

You must have a launch date you guys are working to, why not share it with the community?
 
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pat15312 said:
Feels like your avoiding this one mate...

You must have a launch date you guys are working to, why not share it with the community?
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I think its worth waiting for, there's a few tiny little 'niggles' that will be sorted out.
honestly its nothing and doesn't bother me much at all but better get it right first time right?
 
Dandanfings said:
I think its worth waiting for, there's a few tiny little 'niggles' that will be sorted out.
honestly its nothing and doesn't bother me much at all but better get it right first time right?
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It's not the waiting that is the issue, I've been waiting since December 2013 as have many other S3 owners.

It's about communicating with us as potential customers and giving us a date to work to.
 
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pat15312 said:
It's not the waiting that is the issue, I've been waiting since December 2013 as have many other S3 owners.
It's about communicating with us as potential customers and giving us a date to work to.
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Its a hard thing to communicate on really, its not ready yet!
All i can say is the car is making a lot of power, they can only find more power/torque and improve on what they have already done so i see it as a positive thing.
 
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No offence mate but you've got a beta software car - you're not APR's spokesman.

Evan is the guy that communicates this stuff to the community, he's who I'd like to hear from.
 
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We've posted expected dates in the past; if they're not met, everybody gets angry. In an attempt to minimize those instances, we do not post this information. Thank you for your patience and continued interest.
 
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I agree with you Dan, the word is if you don't care about your engine, drivetrain and transmission warranty, tune and have 5K ready to pay to Audi if you break something.

I think the concern everyone has is the agressivness of the tune from the Deep South thus thining out the AFR, thus causing Turbo Failure. The Torque numbers are also a concern as your wheels should not spin (with all safety controls on), this clutch slippage is bad news for the wear and tear.

I guess we all want the perfect stage 1 tune that does not blow the Turbo, has awesome Performance but doesn't Flag the TD1 Flag so we can get a warranty claim from Audi. Tuning boxes provide a small gain over stock however they are cheaper and can be removed with no TD1 issue. 360-370bhp power increases come from well known brand ECU remaps which as well all know flag TD1.

So tune based on what outcome you would like, tune box and Lower Power but still maintain warranty claims, or Remap, flag TD1 and In or out of warranty be prepared to pay up. There is one more option and that is to go with a premium tuning box out of Germany however it's not cheap and does come with a warranty.

My 2p worth ;)
 
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Fastgun said:
I agree with you Dan, the word is if you don't care about your engine, drivetrain and transmission warranty, tune and have 5K ready to pay to Audi if you break something.

I think the concern everyone has is the agressivness of the tune from the Deep South thus thining out the AFR, thus causing Turbo Failure. The Torque numbers are also a concern as your wheels should not spin (with all safety controls on), this clutch slippage is bad news for the wear and tear.

I guess we all want the perfect stage 1 tune that does not blow the Turbo, has awesome Performance but doesn't Flag the TD1 Flag so we can get a warranty claim from Audi. Tuning boxes provide a small gain over stock however they are cheaper and can be removed with no TD1 issue. 360-370bhp power increases come from well known brand ECU remaps which as well all know flag TD1.

So tune based on what outcome you would like, tune box and Lower Power but still maintain warranty claims, or Remap, flag TD1 and In or out of warranty be prepared to pay up. There is one more option and that is to go with a premium tuning box out of Germany however it's not cheap and does come with a warranty.

My 2p worth ;)
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All valid concerns, with somewhat misguided information.

MQB turbo failures are a known OEM issue. Does the software directly cause failures? No. Does it exacerbate existing problems. Sure, they all do and always have. Remember the DV failures from the 1.8t days?

Your comment about AFR, however, is a bit worrisome. Stock software on this platform runs a 1.0 lambda at redline. Ours is around 0.8...richer than stock, which echoes my comment above about the tuning not directly causing failures. Any aftermarket software provider makes AFR changes if they're doing things correctly--it's not exclusive to us.

So really here the concern is TD1. I've touched on it already, and can only say that it's handled on a case by case basis. The link posted earlier in the thread showed a 7R with software that was flagged, yet I know of another beta tester in South Africa with a turbo failure whose car just had the turbo warrantied without any issues.

Anybody considering modifying their car should consider the risks, and more importantly, their relationship with their dealership service department before making the jump.
 
Evan@APR said:
All valid concerns, with somewhat misguided information.

MQB turbo failures are a known OEM issue. Does the software directly cause failures? No. Does it exacerbate existing problems. Sure, they all do and always have. Remember the DV failures from the 1.8t days?

Your comment about AFR, however, is a bit worrisome. Stock software on this platform runs a 1.0 lambda at redline. Ours is around 0.8...richer than stock, which echoes my comment above about the tuning not directly causing failures. Any aftermarket software provider makes AFR changes if they're doing things correctly--it's not exclusive to us.

So really here the concern is TD1. I've touched on it already, and can only say that it's handled on a case by case basis. The link posted earlier in the thread showed a 7R with software that was flagged, yet I know of another beta tester in South Africa with a turbo failure whose car just had the turbo warrantied without any issues.

Anybody considering modifying their car should consider the risks, and more importantly, their relationship with their dealership service department before making the jump.
Click to expand...


Agreed Evan, even down under we have seen 1.0 Lambda on a MAHA dyno, I agree there is a degree of OEM failure like any manufacturer. To tune or not to tune comes down to well...how well you know your service advisor
 
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I was thinking about that, it says it´s for the US market, but the SW for Europe and Latam is the same?
 
pat15312 said:
So the map is officially out!
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb_r.html

Is this for the US only or a worldwide release?

353bhp is probably a little less than most of us were anticipating, based on what the beta testers were saying.
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Looks like this is the US power graph / figure. They have the S3 & Golf R shown together, with the same figures. The graph shown is for the Mk 7 Golf R and quotes 354 HP, on 98 RON fuel.

The UK site quotes the Mk 7 Golf R stage 1 at 380 HP on 98 RON, would expect similar numbers for the S3.

Can't be long now. Surely??.......
 
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In California we only have 91 octane fuel, so if I did the APR stage 1 it would only be 334 hp and 363 lb/ft. IMO that would be well worth it and would basically put an APR stage 1 S3 right in line with a stock RS3. Considering the probable huge price difference from the current USA S3 to the upcoming 2016 RS3 for USA, the stage 1 seems like a decent alternative.

When I was looking into S4, I read all about owners being scared of Audi's warranty issues with modifying the ECU. Is it confirmed that a stage 1 in the new S3 can be detected by the delearships?

edit: sorry I just saw that some discussion on that is already here in this thread. I have no idea what TD1 is but I assume that references a stage 1 tune? and from what Evan at APR says is that basically doing a stage 1 is a risk and yes it is possible for Audi to flag your car and screw up your warranty. man.. that's scary. that could be a very very expensive gain in HP. :ohmy:
 
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How does having a good relationship with the Audi service guys actually help? I thought the TD1 flag was automatically flagged when the car was plugged in, and was not able to be overridden by the service techs
 
I installed the APR S1 today on my S3 sedan (Australia).... simply awesome :) . Pushes you back in your seat through all the gears and really hauls, but remains smooth and linear. Very impressed.
 
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ajdean said:
How does having a good relationship with the Audi service guys actually help? I thought the TD1 flag was automatically flagged when the car was plugged in, and was not able to be overridden by the service techs
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Exactly...plug the car in and flagged by Audi servers. Nothing to do with the tech. Use and independent garage rather.
 
roadrunner_oz said:
Exactly...plug the car in and flagged by Audi servers. Nothing to do with the tech. Use and independent garage rather.
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right but doesn't that kinda negate the whole reason why someone would be concerned about being flagged in the first place?

it's all about keeping your warranty benefits so that Audi dealership will repair warrantied items at no cost. if you use an independent garage, do they reimburse you for the bill or something or do you just pay out of pocket?
 
^ I think you just need to have very deep pockets
 
roadrunner_oz said:
Exactly...plug the car in and flagged by Audi servers. Nothing to do with the tech. Use and independent garage rather.
Click to expand...

VAG technicians can use their diagnostic tools in "offline mode." Where, though they are using the tool, it does not automatically report to Germany. But that only offers them limited capabilities.
 
pat15312 said:
So the map is officially out!
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb_r.html

Is this for the US only or a worldwide release?

353bhp is probably a little less than most of us were anticipating, based on what the beta testers were saying.
Click to expand...

That is the US release. We saw higher figures in the UK/EU and Australia. In those markets the figures will be quoted higher as originally expected. Here is a link to the UK page: http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb_r.html

The Challinor said:
I do wonder with modern logging of cars if Audi can tell you've had a tuning box on there, I'm pretty sure they could if they looked.
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Not sure how many are aware, but TD1 can also be flagged manually by any dealership. If someone took their car in for service with a tuning box on the car, it could be flagged by one of the technicians just by being visible on the car.
 
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Is APR working on or investigating ways to forgo this TD1 flag? or is the sentiment "meh, its an associated risk the people have to deal with".
 
bterra said:
Is APR working on or investigating ways to forgo this TD1 flag? or is the sentiment "meh, its an associated risk the people have to deal with".
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Of course, but Audi is also working on new detection methods, so it's not that simple. TD1, though new for this market, has been around since 2011. Since there is no current solution, it remains a risk associated with tuning and there's no dodging that fact.
 
ThatOneDude said:
right but doesn't that kinda negate the whole reason why someone would be concerned about being flagged in the first place?

it's all about keeping your warranty benefits so that Audi dealership will repair warrantied items at no cost. if you use an independent garage, do they reimburse you for the bill or something or do you just pay out of pocket?
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Independent to service the car. Audi can't force you to use their service centres for maintenence. If you have warranty issues, remove the tune & take back to Audi dealership.
 
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