1.8 tfsi oil consumption test......results

Ibisa3

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So, ive just been out with my Pyrex jug, and topped up the oil after 598 miles.

Now, I was a bit keen, and my dipstick appears to give inaccurate/inconsistent readings, however.....

It appears to have used 550ml in 598 miles.


Will Audi say this is normal ?
 
Yeah pretty much bang on with Audis accepted usage of half a litre every 600 miles.
 
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roughly 80 lites of fuel assuming 34 mpg.

0.6l of oil consumed....

so 133:1 petrol :eek:il

Just about 2 stroke mixture at that!!!!

How audi can think that's normal ive no idea.
 
Yeah mine certainly doesnt use anywhere near that much, but thats what they say..
 
Strange question. Why did you do the test and not Audi? Get it booked in straight away and you may get the Pistons/rings done for free on those results. See my thread on this!!!!
 
Having just bought it, I wasn't going to shell out for a simple oil test.

Audi will say that consumption is within limits surely?
 
If the car is border lining an oil consumption fail I would give the car a bit of a thrash. Travelling down the m4 in fourth gear helped me. If the car passes it will only be a matter of time when it would fail later in the engine life. Help it along!! Using half a litre of oil for 621 miles is way to excessive to be the threshold for pass/fail.

Plus Audi are covering more cases so far this year free of charge! The repair would cost between 5-6K otherwise!
 
Will they check driving style during the test?

Also, how does dealer servicing affect it The outcome. Will double check my history, lots of audi services, then it looks like a small garage.
 
They can't check your driving style. I thrashed mine and nothing was said. Get it booked in for the test and call Audi UK!

Full Audi service history normally does help however it depends on how much you kick off!

See link below for a discussion recently on Radio 4's You & Yours program. It's on around 10 mins into the show!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b051w062

Audi did admit on the show that the new Piston Rings fitted are a different geometry to the old ones so a minor adjustment has been made to the new Pistons!! However their still not admitting liability, yet...
 
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I have found that stop start driving has driven up my oil consumption rather than motorway thrashing. Think about it, the engine is ticking over and no miles are being put on the car when stationary in traffic. I think this is the problem when Audi did my first oil consumption test and why it passed.

Threshold for failure due to rings is using more than 0.5 litre over 1000 Km which I think is 621 miles.

yours is a failure Ibisa
 
I should change my username.

Ibis-a3 would have been better.


It's due a top up tomorrow after 600 miles has elapsed. ....
 
Not at audi, just me measuring the added oil.

Did it this morning. 606 miles, 750ml used.


Audi can't fit me in for a fortnight, and want to charge £150.......
 
That ain't good ibisa I'm still not convinced that mines all good after the gasket repair and consumption test which passed, I've done 260 mixed miles as live in London most is lovely traffic jams :mad: since getting it back and the oil is now halfway down the dipstick checked when stone cold so it's definitely using oil despite doing the min 400miles Audi did on the oil consumption test and said it didn't consume any:think:

what's the actual amount of oil from top of the cross marked area on the dip stick to the bottom of the cross marked area?
 
My dipstick reads diagonally across the hatching. From the oil just touching the bottom to just touching the top is around 600ml
 
I had the same issue Ricksta. Mine passed the oil test at Audi as it used 0.14litres of oil across 621 miles. However it has also done a full engine of oil with the oil light on over 1300 miles. According to audis reported level of consumption I should be able to do around 4500 miles between full and oil light on. In order to get mine from the level the light pings on to full on the dipstick is 1.25 litres approx.

Therefore if you are full of oil and do 1000 miles and the oil light comes on you are rest assured to fail the consumption test and require a rebuild. Sounds like you may be there already by using half the dipstick in 400 miles.

I would top it up and record the mileage until the oil light is on. This will give you ammunition for Audi. My dealer said I was 40 miles over the threshold according to my figures and I photographed it all as evidence. No arguments then.

I do think the type of driving does affect consumption as well and I have found stop start in traffic and lots if cold starts are the best for the oil to disappear.
 
Driving style has everything to do with it. So does oil temp and average rpm over the 600 miles. Sitting at a standstill at 3000 rpm will use loads/mile more than sitting at 3000mph on the bypass.

Hot oil will also pass the rings faster than cool oil.

Did they lockwire the oil filter/fillercap/dipstick?
 
I agree, I think you should stick a brick on the gas pedal on your driveway and Rev the nuts off it for a few hours. No miles but lots of revs which will use oil.

Audi simply sealed the oil filler with gaffer tape on mine and wrote on it with a marker do not fill. I also looked underneath at the sump plug and they had painted it white and could detect if you had drained any off and the paint would flake off at the thread and it would be black as you wiped away the oil. The dipstick was left alone. I suppose several thousand dipstick checks and wiping it clean would use a bit of oil but not enough to use 0.5 litre !
 
I had no influence on the test as Audis master tech did it over the time It was in with them he's asked to see the car after a 1000miles to check for leaks again but I feel he's getting a earlier visit. I can just about accept having to top up after 600miles but I know I shouldn't have to after the small amount I've done so far I'm really starting to regret buying this car!
I'm going to have to marry a shieks daughter to get a free oil field in my garden the way it's going
 
I checked the oil again today before leaving work and it's reading full :think: I must have what you've got ibisa a inaccurate/inconsistent reading dipstick
 
I checked the oil again today before leaving work and it's reading full :think: I must have what you've got ibisa a inaccurate/inconsistent reading dipstick

Mines the same. I dropped my car off with Audi after the oil light came on and I topped it up with 1.25 litres of oil. Dipstick read full in my opinion. they told me that they had started the oil consumption test again and that the car was slightly overfilled and they had returned it to the maximum.

I drove the car home, let the engine cool. I flipped the bonnet to see if they had sealed the filler cap which they had and checked the dipstick. Only read half full. I really don't know what to believe in terms of engine oil levels. If I had not been having this test done I would have whacked another 0.5 litre of oil in the damn thing.
 
Mines the same. I dropped my car off with Audi after the oil light came on and I topped it up with 1.25 litres of oil. Dipstick read full in my opinion. they told me that they had started the oil consumption test again and that the car was slightly overfilled and they had returned it to the maximum.

I drove the car home, let the engine cool. I flipped the bonnet to see if they had sealed the filler cap which they had and checked the dipstick. Only read half full. I really don't know what to believe in terms of engine oil levels. If I had not been having this test done I would have whacked another 0.5 litre of oil in the damn thing.
I've found it takes a while for the oil to drain down to the pan and give a full reading on the dipstick after running the car.
After a quick look in my engine bay and a nose under the car the other day I noticed my oil filter had a white paint mark on it well hidden and the sump plug was marked so this must of been done after my third time back to audi obviously they are trying to see if I was draining the oil as Ive complained 3 times about it.
 
I waited 3 hours before checking ! All very strange. Never known a car like it. I concur with the white paint on the sump plug. Didn't know about oil filter though. Will have another look.

I don't suppose 10,000 dips and wipes of the dipstick would use half a litre :)
 
Okay, this is my first post. It's a bit of an epic but it might be of help to some of you out there....

First off, I don't own an Audi. I drive a little 1.0L Kia Picanto. Second, I'm the world's worst mechanic. I haven't wielded a spanner in anger since 1978! I was also once told that I would be 'no fun on a first date'. All personally very tragic and I'm definitely not the usual person who posts on Audi-Sport.net. However I have one redeeming feature; I know a lot about engine oil....

For a while now, I've been reading about the horrendous oil consumption problems on some VAG's TFSI engines. I've read about worn piston rings, potentially unevenly worn rings due to con rod distortion, pistons being too small, badly designed Pressure Control Valves and dodgy Oil Separators. All of this is might well be ccorrect. If what I've read is true, Audi are now putting their hands up and finally fixing the offending, oil guzzling engines free, gratis and for nothing. Everyone's happy...

However I couldn't help but notice that amongst all the mechanical chatter, one thing I haven't seen is anyone properly questioning whether the oil going into these engines is actually fit for purpose. Yes I know the Audi oil is API this and ACEA approved that and meets the requirements of VW (insert latest incarnation of their bonkers specification here). However one might possibly argue that any oil that exits the crankcase and throws itself at such a rapid rate of knots down the exhaust pipe, might not be the one you should be using! Maybe, just maybe, the officially recommended oil for these engines is actually the wrong oil and another oil (one that actually stays in the crankcase) might be more useful to owners of these problems cars.

Now I have absolutely no inside track on this. I've not formulated any of these oils and I'm not privy to any of the studies that Audi, VAG, Shell, Castrol, Lubrizol and many others will have undoubtedly done to investigate this problem. But I do have a theory as to what's happening and how you might be able to solve the problem. However you need to understand a bit about oil formulation first....

All things being equal, a thin oil will be more volatile than a thick oil. As you progressively move from 20W40 to 15W40 to 10W40 to 5W40, oil gets more volatile because you need more light base oil (and less heavy base oil) to get the improved cold flow performance. There's a second order impact in that the oil progressively needs more polymeric Viscosity Index Improver (VII) to achieve the viscometric balance. The rubber in VII has poorer cold flow characteristics than base oil so you need to further shift the light-to-heavy base oil mix to accommodate the higher level of VII. This latter effect means that, all things being equal, as you move say from a 5W20 to 5W30 to 5W40 to 5W50, the oil will become more volatile (yes, you did read that right, sometimes a thicker oil can make things worse).

Now in the oil formulation game, not everything is always equal because you employ different base oils (the stuff that constitutes 90%+ of your engine oil) to deal with the inherent problem of oil volatility. There are four main classes of base oil. Group I (good old fashioned solvent extracted mineral oils), Group II (a sort of mild hydro-treated version of Group I), Group III (heavily hydro-cracked mineral oil) and Group IV (typically 'proper' synthetic Poly Alpha Olefins or PAOs). Typically Group II is better than Group I, Group III better than Group II and Group IV is best of all. As one might expect, Group Is are dirt cheap whereas PAOs are inordinately expensive. From an oil volatility point of view, a Group IV 5W30 will be less volatile that a Group III 5W30 which will be less volatile than a 5W30 made from Group II. (Group I 5W30's would be very bad on volatility but are almost impossible to formulate).

OEMs tend to like 5W30's. They are good for fuel economy and emissions. Most 5W30s are made from Group III base oil. This allows the oil to meet the volatility specification (typically a Noack of < 13%), have good oxidation stability at reasonably low cost. BUT...they are still volatile and in the right circumstances on a problem engine can worsen oil loss.

So TFSI engine oil loss...what's happening? Well to state the obvious, if your engine's losing lots of oil, and there's no oil puddle of your drive, the oil is exiting via the exhaust pipe. Oh and I say it here only because I haven't read it elsewhere, if you've had his problem, your catalytic converter is probably shot to Hell; poisoned by phosphorus and sulphur from burned ZDDP. The big question is HOW is it getting into the exhaust? As I see it there are three routes...

First is loss via worn valve seals. This puts oil directly into the combustion chamber. I sort of discount this because positive valve seal design has come on a long way and if this was the primary cause of the problem, Audi would have twigged it and simply offered to replace them. Also I'd expect blue smoke to be more in evidence than it is.

Second is direct transport of accumulated oil on the first piston land into the combustion chamber. Think about it. The piston goes up to TDC and drags an oil film with it. The piston must descend but the inertia in the oil wants it to carry on moving upwards ie into the cylinder into the burning combustion gases. There's a horribly complex MIT SAE paper that says at low engine load and low speed, this can be the dominant route for oil loss. This could be happening with the TFSIs but I sort of discount it too. You don't buy an Audi to pootle, you buy a Kia Picanto!

The third, and I think the most likely route for oil loss, involves several interacting factors but it must start with worn piston rings. This might be caused by several things. It could be bad ring metallurgy but I think it's significant that the TFSI is a direct injection engine. DI engines burn atomised, rather than fully vaporised fuel and they tend to produce a tiny amount of soot. Hot soot can be abrasive so once it starts getting past the rings, it could feed the ring wear problem. Another feature of DI engines is that the inlet valves don't get 'washed' by fuel like they do in an normal, MPI engine. Ring wear could conceivably be initiated by a lump of coke dislodging from a dirty inlet valve and dropping in to the cylinder.

Now all engines generate a degree of blow-by. Hot, high pressure combustion gas rushes through the ring gaps on the compression stroke. This gas can shear, atomise & vaporise the oil in the ring pack. However if you start to wear the rings, the rate of blow-by increases and blow-by is a major source of oil loss. The oil laden blow-by gas mixes with oil in the sump and flushing air. The now super laden gas goes through the Oil Separator & PCV, into the intake system. Once in the intake system, it gets routed to the cylinders to be burnt and flushed out via the exhaust. Now the oil separator, like any cyclone, will only separate liquid from gas. It will not separate fully vaporised oil from the blow-by gas. Also all cyclones get less efficient as gas flow increases so if ring wear causes high rates of blow-by, not only vaporised oil with pass through the Oil Separator, so will some oil in liquid droplet form. And this is where things get tricky. Oil, especially oil in droplet form, doesn't burn very cleanly. Burnt oil will generate soot particles. Soot particles can be abrasive and so the whole process starts to spiral downwards.

But hang on, Diesel engines are all DI so why is the TFSI a problem? I think it's because it uses petrol, and volatile petrol is more damaging to oil loss than relatively heavy diesel. Think about it. You inject liquid petrol directly into a cylinder. Let's say the fuel is cold and the cylinder is cold. Yes the cylinder fires but you inevitably push some petrol (or partially burned petrol) into the sump with the blow-by or if the fuel hits the scraped bore. Let's say the engine oil is also cold, chances are the petrol will condense out in the oil. This is normal. My old car would typically have about 8% fuel in oil. Drive for a while and everything starts to heat up, the relatively light petrol starts to vaporise into the blow-by gas/flushing air mix, and get routed through the PCV into the intake system and burned. Petrol burns cleanly so what's the problem? The problem is something called vapour pressure and the way it causes hydrocarbons to interact. I used to work on an oil refinery. Heavy oil residues can be difficult to distil. As often as not, you fix the problem by distilling heavy residues under vacuum. However, in theory, you could mix the heavy residue with something very light like naphtha (the raw material from which petrol is made) and re-distil it. Although the residue and naphtha are poles apart, on re-distilling, he two don't 'break' cleanly. The laws of vapour-liquid equilibrium cause the light naphtha to 'pull' some of the heavy residue with it. Why is this relevant? Well although I can't be sure, I suspect the TFSI engines are dumping petrol into the sump which in turn is evaporating off and 'pulling' with it some of the lighter base oil in engine oil. As the oil would be in vapour form, it would pass right through the Oil Separator, into the intake and onto be burned. Just like before, the oil would burn badly, create soot which would create yet more ring wear.

So what can you do to prevent any of this? Well to me, the obvious thing to do first would be to see if a less volatile engine oil could help. I know these days it's heresy to say it, but no-one actually needs a 5W or 0W oil from a cold start point of view. You could easily make the case that even 10W oils are an unnecessary luxury. Maybe if we ever enter another ice age, I might retract what I just said but not until! Just remember back in the 1960's everyone was tazzing around in their Mini's all of which had 20W50 in the sump. The roads didn't empty every time he weather turned cold. Cars started and life went on!

Ever wondered why full synthetic oils are either 5W or 0W? The reason is because it's actually quite difficult to make a full synthetic 15W or 20W because Group III & Group IV base oils tend to be only available in low viscosity flavours (typically 4 cst and 6 cst varieties). Mineral oils on he other hand are readily available in much heavier weights (like 500N and Bright Stock). If you want a low volatility oil, you need a lot of heavy base oil in the blend. An oil with a lot of 'heavy' in it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad, old fashioned 20W50 all mineral. I would have thought it quite possible to make an ultra low Noack 10W30 from PAO 10 and/or Group II 500N. All it needs is someone with the will to do it. The fact is, given the way things work with these 'bad' TFSI engines, all you would need is one 600 mile oil consumption test to see if the oil made a difference or not. My gut feel it it would cure the problem in a heart beat. I haven't looked but I suspect you can't go out and buy such an oil. Someone would need to formulate it and blend it. That person isn't me sadly (now retired, no access to stuff any more). You could ask one of the big players but I doubt it they would be much help. In my experience, they are slow and to be honest, they can be a bit dim. You could try ringing someone at one of the smaller oil blenders (Millers or Comma maybe). They would probably understand what the problem is and knock up a batch of oil for you to try out.

Oh and a couple more things...

If you move to a heavier oil grade, expect a bit less fuel economy but I suspect what you lose of fuel, you will save many times over in he cost of engine oil changes! Also, I really like heavy base oils. In my view they do a much better job of sealing the ring pack. They also are great for preventing wear.

That's all folks!
 
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I discovered a couple more things today while looking at Youtube...

Remember I suggested that 'unwashed' deposits on the back of the TFSI inlet valves might be breaking off, falling into the cylinder and initiating ring wear?

Look at this clip....



The second photo showing deposit build up on an Audi TSI at 75,000 miles is just horrible and far worse than I might have expected from my days formulating gasoline additives. A lump of deposit this size detaching could cause some serious damage!

Now look at the second clip...



This is a 4.2L Audi TFSI (known to have excessive oil consumption) with a badly scored cylinder bore. In all my years formulating engine oils, I never saw anything quite like this. In-cylinder wear, if it happens at all tends to be uniform. You might expect to see a bit of loss of the bore honing or a bit of glazing. This however is wear on a catastrophic scale! The only thing I reckon that might cause this is a foreign body (such a lump of coke entering the cylinder), getting trapped in the top land space, and grinding a line in the bore.

The guy in the first clip said there's no way to prevent intake deposits but I disagree. You just need to consider using a very low volatility engine oil. IMHO, sacrificing a bit of fuel economy to avoid these problems seems a price worth paying. Sadly, the oil guys in Wolfsburg and Ingolstadt would drink poison before admitting that there was anything wrong with their precious creations.

PS - I've never considered myself a tribologist. It might come as a surprise but the science of slippy-slidey doesn't figure much in the formulation of modern engine oils.
 
Had a fun day today having to endure some thicko ranting off about how I knew nothing about anything and that I was wrong in every aspect of what I was saying about the Audi TFSI.

And then I just happened to see this article about the generic problems of GDI engines...

https://www.bgprod.com/blog/gdi-stands-for-opportunity/

It talks about oil evaporation, intake deposits, hard deposits entering cylinders, cylinder scoring, ring failure, etc, etc. Maybe I'm not so far off the mark after all.
 
Or maybe the Pistons and Rings on modern TFSI engines are lacking the engineering design quality that Audi would have made themselves years ago!
No problem since my rebuild was completed...
It is on an A4 B8 2.0 TFSI (211) but it seems to be affecting vehicles across the petrol VAG range.
I thought about putting a higher viscosity oil in but not on what was a 35 grand car 3 yrs ago. Why should we need to add oil anyway in between servicings?
Safe to say that Audi UK are acknowledging these problems now. More so on the 2.0 engine yes but Give it time tho...
Heard BBC's watchdog are now moving on this ;)
 
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Or maybe the Pistons and Rings on modern TFSI engines are lacking the engineering design quality that Audi would have made themselves years ago!
No problem since my rebuild was completed...
It is on an A4 B8 2.0 TFSI (211) but it seems to be affecting vehicles across the petrol VAG range.
I thought about putting a higher viscosity oil in but not on what was a 35 grand car 3 yrs ago. Why should we need to add oil anyway in between servicings?
Safe to say that Audi UK are acknowledging these problems now. More so on the 2.0 engine yes but Give it time tho...
Heard BBC's watchdog are now moving on this ;)
Good luck with the rebuilt engine. I honestly hope it gives you years of great motoring.

However I can't but help have nagging doubts about this. The way I see it this...

Obviously if you change worn rings, on an engine that is consuming oil, you will see an immediate reduction in oil consumption. However piston rings in my experience don't 'just fail'. You will hear folks talk about 'chocolate rings' suggesting that the ring is made of something soft but the reality is that rings are very simple items made of steel with a hardened face. If rings are wearing out, it's because something is causing them to wear out. Every petrol engine in the world has the same basic ring system so why is it that TFSI/FSI are so prone to this problem?
It's a feature of all GDi engines that, unlike MPI or carburettored engines, they tend to produce a bit of soot and hot soot can be abrasive. Likewise it's a fact that GDI engines have an unwashed intake system in which deposits build up. Sadly the industry hasn't come up with a fix for this. Finally, GDI engines have more of a tendency to transfer petrol into the crankcase. In my eyes, this is very bad because it sets up a circular transfer mechanism which exacerbates all of the above.
Rebuilding your engine, putting in new pistons & rings, won't change some of these fundamental problems and sadly, I suspect that in a couple of years the original problems or ring wear and oil loss will start to resurface.
I'm not you. You may have absolute confidence in Audi's technical prowess. I could easily be wrong. But if I were you, I might just mull over shifting you car while it's not giving problems.
 
Fascinating read about the oil Joe90, i was gripped the whole way through and even though I don't understand the technical bits about the oil specs, I do understand that basically the oil is too good or too thin for these engines, am I right? The problem is getting audi to see this and adjust the acceptable oil specs for there engine's, otherwise its an excuse not to cover warranty work etc

My 2010 a3 1.8 tfsi is currently in the garage having a replacement engine, its not at audi for 2 reasons, well 3 actually,
1, its done 145 000 miles which I guess is quite a lot and audi would argue that its had a good life,
2, my ecu has been remapped for the engine to produce an extra 50 bhp, I very much doubt this is the cause of my problem but I'm sure audi would use as an excuse, and 3, the labour charges for replacing an engine at audi would far exceed the cost of my reputable local guy who is currently carrying out the work for me.

After uming and aring for a week or 2 about wether to fit a recon engine or new engine, my mechanic spoke to his contact at audi and basically he was very much putting my mechanic off fitting a recon unit as the problem would still be there, you need a new engine from us, mmm 'problem', think that was a bit of a confession!

Anyway without much trouble at all they knocked 1000 quid of this 'new' engine which is currently being installed in my car.
I really do hope that it is a 'new' engine and not just another new one of the same engine that I had in before otherwise I may aswell have just put a recon one in.

Maybe if I'de gone to audi I might have got more money off! But I very much doubt due to my mileage that they would have said, 'hey, have a new engine on us'

Another interesting point is that my mechanic has to send my knackered engine back to Audi or he will be charged 2 grand, I guess we will never get to look inside at what's actually gone wrong because audi don't wan't you to lol

I will post again when I've collected my car with an update and cost, I'm dreading the bill!
 
Fascinating read about the oil Joe90, i was gripped the whole way through and even though I don't understand the technical bits about the oil specs, I do understand that basically the oil is too good or too thin for these engines, am I right? The problem is getting audi to see this and adjust the acceptable oil specs for there engine's, otherwise its an excuse not to cover warranty work etc

My 2010 a3 1.8 tfsi is currently in the garage having a replacement engine, its not at audi for 2 reasons, well 3 actually,
1, its done 145 000 miles which I guess is quite a lot and audi would argue that its had a good life,
2, my ecu has been remapped for the engine to produce an extra 50 bhp, I very much doubt this is the cause of my problem but I'm sure audi would use as an excuse, and 3, the labour charges for replacing an engine at audi would far exceed the cost of my reputable local guy who is currently carrying out the work for me.

After uming and aring for a week or 2 about wether to fit a recon engine or new engine, my mechanic spoke to his contact at audi and basically he was very much putting my mechanic off fitting a recon unit as the problem would still be there, you need a new engine from us, mmm 'problem', think that was a bit of a confession!

Anyway without much trouble at all they knocked 1000 quid of this 'new' engine which is currently being installed in my car.
I really do hope that it is a 'new' engine and not just another new one of the same engine that I had in before otherwise I may aswell have just put a recon one in.

Maybe if I'de gone to audi I might have got more money off! But I very much doubt due to my mileage that they would have said, 'hey, have a new engine on us'

Another interesting point is that my mechanic has to send my knackered engine back to Audi or he will be charged 2 grand, I guess we will never get to look inside at what's actually gone wrong because audi don't wan't you to lol

I will post again when I've collected my car with an update and cost, I'm dreading the bill!

Hi,

Thanks for taking the trouble to read my stuff.

In answer to your question, I'm going to quote Max Gehring. Herr Gehring was for decades arguably the most important man in the world of engine oils because he was the man in Mercedes-Benz who decided whether your oil was worthy of an MB approval or not. I never met the guy. I only knew of his formidable reputation. I also know that one of the things he was famous for saying was "The oil must fit the engine, not the other way around!".

To my mind this definitely applies to the Audi approved oil and the TFSI/TSI engines. Their oil, by most industry standards is exemplary. It's been subjected to and survived some of the most severe 'thrash & trash' engine tests in the world. However, to me it's obvious that this oil does not fit this engine type. It's laughable to talk about this oil being a 'Long Life' oil when its life time can, in the worst cases, be measured in days or hours. It's also beyond stupid to consider it to be a Low SAP oil when so much is disappearing down your exhaust pipe, irreversibly ruining your cat in the process. Finally, how can you call it a fuel economy oil when it's far more expensive to replace lost oil than it is to use a bit more petrol!

The problem as I see it, is not that this oil is too good or too thin but that it is TOO VOLATILE. The TFSI/TSI engines (and arguably all petrol DI engines) need a less volatile oil to keep it in the crankcase where it does no harm. If this means sacrificing the sacred cow of fuel economy then so be it. The oil should, indeed, fit the engine!

I feel a bit sorry for Audi. This problem must be costing them an arm and a leg to put right and it's probably not doing their reputation much good either. They clearly saw something terrible in the market place that they had not in their wildest dreams anticipated. It's only my opinion but I think that there are several, distinct parts to this oil consumption problem and the industry not yet has been able to put all the parts of the jigsaw together.I don't see that changing any time soon. I hope I'm wrong but I suspect we are going to see more repeats of the TFSI oil consumption as other OEMs add DI petrol engines to their cars.

Good luck with the new engine. I don't know for a fact, but if is a 'proper' new engine, it may have a supplementary upstream fuel injector for keeping the air intake/inlet valves clean. This will eliminate one of the problems for sure. Also you should get the bigger oil control ring (although I personally don't see how this caused the problems with the original design). Shame they want the old engine back. It would have been perfect for doing a 600 mile 'oil consumption' run on a 20W50 to see what effect this had on things.

Hope the final bill for the work isn't too heavy. But remember, if you want to save money...you could always buy yourself a little Kia Picanto!

Cheers.
 
I suppose the answer until they find a solution to the tfsi problem is if you like audi's, buy the tdi version!
 
I suppose the answer until they find a solution to the tfsi problem is if you like audi's, buy the tdi version!
To be honest, I'd avoid any diesel engine like the plague right now. I'm still not convinced VAG or any OEM has a proper handle on the long-term life of dpf's. They are not a cheap item to replace when they go wrong. Also, whilst the problem is not as acute as with petrol engines, diesel inlet valves will foul up over time. The basic mechanisms for transferring stuff from the crankcase to the intake system are all the same. Also I suspect Audi will use the same oil on diesels as for petrol engines and that would give me cause for concern.
 
They do use the same oil interestingly.
I only changed my A3 TDI to an A4 TFSI due to its DPF and mostly travelling short journeys..
 
They do use the same oil interestingly.
I only changed my A3 TDI to an A4 TFSI due to its DPF and mostly travelling short journeys..
Same here after being quoted 2.5k for a new EGR and DPF on a 2010 golf with 60k on it.

My 1.8tfsi is currently being rebuilt by Audi. They called me today to say that they are still working on it and to keep the a4 avant they lent me until they have finished. Er did you think I was just going to bring it back early and walk home ? They did say they were very busy with lots of cars having new Pistons put in them. You don't say !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Bet the Audi Techs are dreading working! Gone are the days of "These 2 cars need an oil inspection service and that one needs need pads and tracking". Now it's "You've got a week to fix another crap TFSI engine"
They should be able to do it in their sleep by now...
 
Joe90_guy,

Thanks for the informative post about oil volatility and the connection to oil consumption on DI engines. It’s an interesting hypothesis. I’m wondering if you can give your thoughts about my own oil consumption conundrum.

I have a 2013 VW GTI with the 2.0L turbo TSI CCTA engine from VW’s EA888 engine family. This is a very similar engine to that in the 2009-2011 Audi vehicles which have the 2.0L turbo TFSI CAEB engine, also from the EA888 family, which is the engine that had all the oil consumption issues a few years ago. The main differences between the engines are that the CAEB has a self-regulating oil pump, a larger turbo and a valve lift system on the exhaust valves. I don’t know if there are any differences to the pistons and rings.

I’m the second owner of the the car. The first owner had it on lease over three years, so took good care of it, had it dealer serviced, with oil changes approximately every 6,000 km using synthetic oil (Castrol EDGE 5W40) - I have all the service records. It only has 20,000 km on it now, so this is a low mileage engine and well cared for (as far as I can tell).

In the six months that I have owned it, I have seen quite high oil consumption, about 1 litre / 4000 km (1 litre / 2500 mi). However, this is within the VW spec which is 1 litre / 2000 km (1 litre / 1250 mi) – frankly, a ridiculous spec.

I have researched this a little bit on the internet. Many other GTI owners of the same generation have oil consumption issues, but it is not universal as some say they have quite low oil consumption.

As I mentioned above, the engine in my car has only seen Castrol EDGE 5W40 synthetic oil, as mentioned above. Here is a data sheet:

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/F...A50E62C80257EC20051533C/$File/BPXE-A2PCHU.pdf

It shows a NOACK volatility of 11%, which, as far as I know, is fairly low. So do you think volatility is causing the high oil consumption that I am seeing?
 

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