Channel 4 Despatches about Diesel Cars

glospete

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I'm sure some of us have just watched the above programme about whether we were conned by the politicians into switching to diesel cars back in the 1990s. Without wishing to start a debate, one fact shocked me. They tested the nitrogen dioxide levels of a person in a new car, another walking, another on a bus and another on a bike. The person subject to the greatest level of nitrogen dioxide was the person in the car! So my question is whether the A3 has an "air quality" filter (my words!) and whether that would reduce the pollutants entering the car.
 
The climate control has an air quality sensor and filter, not sure how much pollutants it prevents entering the cabin though. Would be great to know.
 
I'm sure some of us have just watched the above programme about whether we were conned by the politicians into switching to diesel cars back in the 1990s. Without wishing to start a debate, one fact shocked me. They tested the nitrogen dioxide levels of a person in a new car, another walking, another on a bus and another on a bike. The person subject to the greatest level of nitrogen dioxide was the person in the car! So my question is whether the A3 has an "air quality" filter (my words!) and whether that would reduce the pollutants entering the car.
Quite an insight, hoodwinked once again in to being consumers and hearded by governments telling us, and taxing us in to their policies under the banner "climate change" when not one of them knew the truth. Now all those with diesels will start to see the effect of crashing prices thanks to a certain government from the 1990's jumping on a green bandwagon to help fund their reckless spending through "carbon emissions" and "climate change".

All of which is a total lie, I honestly think in years to come we will look at the diesel era and shake our heads and joke about when I was young they use to use that to fuel cars and public transport!!!!
 
Were all these people in the same place??. How could somebody on a bike pedalling through traffic breathing hard have a lower level of Nitrogen dioxide in their blood than somebody sitting in a car?.
Cars have pollen filters that trap dust and pollen, If you use an activated carbon filter , not always fitted but usually available they will filter more than a normal pollen filter.

http://rb-aa.bosch.com/boaa-uk/Product.jsp?prod_id=89&ccat_id=37&language=en-GB&publication=1


Karl.
 
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What a headache .

So why don't we have a combined pollen and nitrogen dioxide filter ?
 
I'm guessing it must be difficult to remove a gas.....

The expert was not telling the truth when he claimed the other pollutants were not known about when the Government pushed diesels as being green. All the muck from diesels has been known about for at least fifty years if not longer. They all jumped on the CO2 bandwagon and ignored all the other toxins.

Interesting programme though if you didn't see it it may be available on catch up. Sell your diesels before they lose their value.
 
As I didn't know what it was called I didn't bother to do a search. Oops!
 
Doesn't sound like anything new TBH. I have a diesel because they are better for towing, may well have ended up with the 1.4 CoD otherwise. I want my next car to be 100% electric.
 
I bought my car as a diesel purely on the grounds of fuel economy. I have no intention of selling it until I've had at least 10 years out of it and by that time the resale value will be about, what? 5 grand at the very most? The type of engine will be neither here nor there. In short, I watched the program, cared not a jot and had another beer. I'm sure there'd be equally impassioned arguments against the thirsty petrol V6 sat on my drive, certain people will lambaste any car of any type, probably even fully electric ones.
 
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I'll be intrested to see how this impacts company cars going forward.

My mileage rate has steadily gone down year on year from about 18p to 14p. If you do a lot of miles that 4p makes a difference.

My company only allows diesels but I guess in time petrol hybrids will be what most company car drivers will be pushed in to?
 
Always said diesel cars were the work of the devil ! :eyebrows:
 
If the e-tron technology stands the test of time and Audi eventually put it in a future A3 or TT soft-top, I could see myself having one when I eventually chop this one in.
 
Diesel is toast, complete and utter toast.

The NOx and particulate emissions are horrid and petrols have caught up on CO2. They cost more to buy, more to maintain and the fuel is also more expensive. They only have a real economy benefit (i.e. TCO rather than just fuel) if you do a lot of long distance driving. They smell and are noisy.

There was a time when the downsides of diesel were outweighed (for many people at least) by the advantages but now it's pretty much all downsides. The future is electric hybrids using small efficient petrol engines, which will tide us over until battery tech makes the much needed leap and purely electric cars become viable.

Diesel has no future.
 
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I think that can be expanded to 'Internal combustion engines have no future"
 
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Just watched this program and it is very one sided. There are issues with petrol and diesel cars.
A good part of the program seems to concentrate on the fact that the economy isn't what the manufacturers claim. This doesn't just apply to diesels, petrols are just as bad.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/
Why did that woman need to drive around in a 7 seat mini bus??. She has small children / babies. My wife and I never had an issue with 2 small children in car seats in a Vauxhall Astra.
Co2 is an important consideration, the planet is warming up.
Petrol cars produce significant amounts of Carbon Monoxide and Hydrocarbons compared to a diesel.

http://www.lordgrey.org.uk/~f014/us...Fact_Sheets/Key_Stage_4/Air_Pollution/26.html

Diesels will always have a place for large commercial vechicles. Imagine the cost of transport if all trucks were petrol powered. The cost of public transport and taxi's etc will increase if they have to run petrol vechicles.
Electric vechicles aren't the answer whilst a good proportion of our electric is generated from carbon fuels.
The pollution is just generated in another place.

Karl.
 
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Were all these people in the same place??. How could somebody on a bike pedalling through traffic breathing hard have a lower level of Nitrogen dioxide in their blood than somebody sitting in a car?.
Cars have pollen filters that trap dust and pollen, If you use an activated carbon filter , not always fitted but usually available they will filter more than a normal pollen filter.

http://rb-aa.bosch.com/boaa-uk/Product.jsp?prod_id=89&ccat_id=37&language=en-GB&publication=1


Karl.



Will an activated charcoal pollen filter deal with nitrogen dioxide ?
 
Personally I don't feel cheated in the slightest.

I bought diesel as I was doing high miles and, having run the numbers over three years, I could have a cheaper and faster diesel than I could a petrol.

When I replace, maybe the balance will have shifted but I'm certainly not being 'punished' at the minute for having gone dirty.
 
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Will an activated charcoal pollen filter deal with nitrogen dioxide ?


They do..

MANN+HUMMEL cabin filters block pollen and other unwanted particles effectively and ensure that there is clean air in the vehicle interior. With an additional activated carbon layer, adsotop combi-filters also prevent unpleasant odours and harmful gases such as hydrocarbons, SO2, NOx and ozone from entering the cabin. This creates a healthy and comfortable climate inside the vehicle, which is particularly important for people suffering from allergies or asthma and for children.
 
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The majority of modern car diesel engines are made to the EU6 standard and in all of Europe (except the UK) diesel is much cheaper to buy than petrol and gives far more miles to the gallon (or litre !). The biggest culprits for poor air are older lorries and buses that use far more diesel than cars and generally have older engines that do not meet the EU6 standard. There is certainly no way I would base my car choice on one television programme made to be sensational. I have owner far for petrol engined cars that diesels but now I prefer the range, mpg and lower revs torque of the current diesel engines and will certainly continue to buy them.

According to a recent item in Auto Express, Audi are currently working on powertrain technology for the R8-etron that will give a range of 300 miles on a single change. When this sort of range can be obtained and all electricity is generated without using any fossil fuels the world may be getting somewhere. But I'm sure it will not be in my car buying lifetime.
 
I've just watched this and found it very bias. No mention of mpg being only a guideline in the eu etc. pretty poor documentary if you ask me
 
Electric vechicles aren't the answer whilst a good proportion of our electric is generated from carbon fuels.
The pollution is just generated in another place.

This is a commonly quoted (and commonly debunked) argument. For one, the process of producing and transporting petrol is far more carbon-heavy than transporting electricity. Also, the power generation doesn't *have* to come from any particular source - that's the beauty of it. Even if it did just 'move the problem elsewhere', it localises the problem to the power stations, and it's much easier (in terms of infrastructure) to replace a few power stations than it is to replace millions of cars. Even if they were no better in terms of carbon (which isn't the case), it'd be worth switching over an EV infrastructure sooner rather than later just because it's more effort to switch all the cars.

Say we crack Fusion in the next few years - suddenly that argument completely disappears anyway (even for the people who can't look past the most basic of glances at it), but that doesn't help if the vehicle infrastructure is still all oil powered. Switching to an EV infrastructure benefits everyone no matter the source of electricity.
 
According to a recent item in Auto Express, Audi are currently working on powertrain technology for the R8-etron that will give a range of 300 miles on a single change. When this sort of range can be obtained and all electricity is generated without using any fossil fuels the world may be getting somewhere. But I'm sure it will not be in my car buying lifetime.

This kind of range already exists with the Tesla Model S. It's nothing new. The Model 3 which will be revealed soon enough will make this kind of thing much cheaper too (range of 200 miles probably, but that's still plenty really - people forget that you operate an EV much differently than you do a petrol powered car).
 
So as activated charcoal pollen filters deal with Nitrogen Dioxide , why isn't there legislation to discontinue standard pollen filters ?
 
Is this the start of more EU brainwashing? They told us CO2 was evil and duly created taxes that were based on this most sinful of molecules. The car industry though upped their game and raised the bar, creating cleaner engines, as a result tax revenues began falling. Now they're saying oh hang, we think nitrogen dioxide is equally as bad....... Just wait, they'll tax us on that next!
 
Is this the start of more EU brainwashing? They told us CO2 was evil and duly created taxes that were based on this most sinful of molecules. The car industry though upped their game and raised the bar, creating cleaner engines, as a result tax revenues began falling. Now they're saying oh hang, we think nitrogen dioxide is equally as bad....... Just wait, they'll tax us on that next!
So true, this is the problem, the EU or some other jobs worth Government, put these "taxes" in place to make the world a greener place, all bull, it is to raise more money so they can spend it on bailing out foreign countries or funding wars!

Now the manufacturers of cars have upped their game to make greener, cleaner more efficient engines, in turn the government loses out on taxes. So all they do is come up with some other way of taxing us, as it stands if you have an electric car you don't pay road fund, so if all cars went to electric imagine how much they would be out of pocket. They will just think of something else and move the goal posts.

Tax fuel, the more you use the more you pay, take away tax on cars, then some rep doing 30K annual mileage is paying his bit whilst some old dear going to the shop and back pays less, as it stands at the mo, the two would pay the same if they had the same car!

Off topic by a mile I know, but rant over!!!!
 
I thought it was a pretty poor documentary out to just attack the diesel driving motorist. Completely ignored HGV's, Buses and the number of those on the road chucking out NOx etc and the fact that EU6 diesels are just as clean as the equivalent petrol models, getting better MPG with less CO2. Just another piece of bad journalism design to scaremonger and attack the motorist
 
They do..

MANN+HUMMEL cabin filters block pollen and other unwanted particles effectively and ensure that there is clean air in the vehicle interior. With an additional activated carbon layer, adsotop combi-filters also prevent unpleasant odours and harmful gases such as hydrocarbons, SO2, NOx and ozone from entering the cabin. This creates a healthy and comfortable climate inside the vehicle, which is particularly important for people suffering from allergies or asthma and for children.

Thanks for this. But I did a search on their (terrible!) website and can't find out who sells them in the UK. Amazon do for BMW and LR but I can't find one for the A3 8v. But at least you've given me a steer so thanks anyway.
 
This kind of range already exists with the Tesla Model S. It's nothing new. The Model 3 which will be revealed soon enough will make this kind of thing much cheaper too (range of 200 miles probably, but that's still plenty really - people forget that you operate an EV much differently than you do a petrol powered car).

May be, but by a American company. I don't want to buy an American car and to me it is far more interesting that AUDI are looking at it themselves rather than just copying some American design. This is why I posted the item - BECAUSE AUDI ARE DOING IT and this is an AUDI forum.

Perhaps the Government will give us all a much bigger subsidy so that we can all purchase an R8-etron !!

What I would be looking for is a car that can do 500-600 miles and re-charge in 5 minutes.
 
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I don't really see what nationality has to do with anything, or even the model. The point is, it's possible. I'm not saying everyone should go out and buy that model and only that model.
 
I don't really see what nationality has to do with anything, or even the model. The point is, it's possible. I'm not saying everyone should go out and buy that model and only that model.

Personally and I'm quite sure a lot of others on this forum are quite interested in what AUDI are doing, like the A3 and R8 e-trons but not that interested that what, for example, Tesla are doing. They are hardly a major world maufacturer like Audi or VW. As far as I'm concerned any form of 'electric only' vehicle still has a very long way to go (no pun intended) before I personally would ever consider one wherever it's made. As I said earlier my criteria is 500-600 miles with a 5 min re-charge.
 
Personally and I'm quite sure a lot of others on this forum are quite interested in what AUDI are doing, like the A3 and R8 e-trons but not that interested that what, for example, Tesla are doing. They are hardly a major world maufacturer like Audi or VW. As far as I'm concerned any form of 'electric only' vehicle still has a very long way to go (no pun intended) before I personally would ever consider one wherever it's made. As I said earlier my criteria is 500-600 miles with a 5 min re-charge.

I think it is interesting see what both VAG and others are doing, that way you can also see if Audi is ahead or behind the rest of the pack.

As a driving enthusiast it worries me what the driving experience will be like in the future with either hybrid vehicles or battery powered . About 15 years ago, I drove a fully electric Daihatsu Charade, that was built by the local power authority as a research project. The car was totally silent and reduced driving to nothing but a means to an end. i.e. transport.

It would be interesting to see what a high performance version of the A3 e-tron would be like.
 
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Personally and I'm quite sure a lot of others on this forum are quite interested in what AUDI are doing, like the A3 and R8 e-trons but not that interested that what, for example, Tesla are doing. They are hardly a major world maufacturer like Audi or VW. As far as I'm concerned any form of 'electric only' vehicle still has a very long way to go (no pun intended) before I personally would ever consider one wherever it's made. As I said earlier my criteria is 500-600 miles with a 5 min re-charge.

Yes, perhaps they are. That doesn't make my point invalid, like you seemed to suggest. This thread as a whole isn't Audi specific, so not sure why you are so hung up on my one point.

Never mind though. You obviously don't like my response for some reason so we'll just leave it at that!
 
Leaving aside the journalistic integrity of the programme itself, the main point for me is that air quality, particularly in cities, has become a major issue and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. As a result the politicians, keen to be seen to be doing something about it, are likely to start clamping down on diesel over the next five to ten years, making them increasing unattractive.

Yes the latest EU6 standard for diesels is a good step and I believe it more than halves the allowable NOx emissions over the previous levels but the problem is that only a tiny fraction of the diesels on our roads conform to this standard. Whilst a modern diesel which conforms to EU6 and has a particulate filter may be far less harmful, we all know full well how many older models there are still belching out all sorts of nasties.

The government will start trying to force people out of such cars, either into newer, cleaner diesels or, even better, into petrols or petrol hybrids. In my opinion, the next decade will see a massive rise in the number of electric-petrol hybrids available and there will be tax incentives to buy and run such vehicles whilst disincentives are introduced to get people out of older, dirtier cars.

You only have to look at the Paris proposals to ban all diesel cars from the capital and measures are already being discussed for London, such as an additional congestion charge for diesel vehicles.
 
In Germany they operate the Unwelt system. Currently with over 40 of the larger towns and cites, with more being added all the time, you can only take you vehicle into one of these areas if you have a green Unwelt sticker displayed in the windscreen. To get one of these you engine must meet the EU6 emission standards. This applies to both petrol and diesel engines. If you don't have a sticker you can be fined €40. This means that cars with older engines that do not meet the EU6 requirements are kept out of towns and cities where the problem of pollution is at it's worst. The Umwelt requirement applies to all vehicles including lorries, buses and coaches. Where I live the worst offenders are the buses. Many of these are very old and those used as school transport even older and are often accompanied by their own smoke screen.

Perhaps the UK should adopt a similar system. This not only helps fight the pollution created by older models but can also help the vehicle industry by encouraging more people to purchase newer vehicles.
 
Different countries have different schemes; most of them flawed in one way or another.

German Unwelt - Concept not bad for built up areas but the fine isn't a major disincentive and not well enforced. London Congestion charge is broadly similar in concept; free if v low emissions but if emissions above a limit then you pay.

20mph zones: Edinburgh just approved this for the majority of city centre roads. The flaw here is that if a vehicle is in a built up area, then it emits fewer emissions by getting to its destination as quickly as practical. Slowing everything to 20mph means engines running for longer in a lower gear. Bit of an own goal that one; unless you force greater use of public transport. That's probably the real goal here.

Singapore - just tax cars to the point that most people can't practically afford them.

Japan - strict emissions limits so cars are often fail after a few years and are exported elsewhere. Just moves the problem elsewhere, and doesn't take into account the pollution involved in building a new car.

M3/M25: 50mph limit to reduce pollution in one of the areas with the worst air quality. Personally I hate it but fair play as it does achieve its goal.

Diesel PD engines were more economical than Common Rail but were phased out due to emission levels. Newer methods to reduce emissions often require use of more fuel; DPFs, catalytic converters to name just two.

Until we are all driving electric cars with eco friendly batteries and a small 2-pot petrol/hydrogen engine or fuel cell attached to a dynamo running at optimal rpm to give decent range, then no solution will work well.
 
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Until we are all driving electric cars with eco friendly batteries and a small 2-pot petrol/hydrogen engine or fuel cell attached to a dynamo running at optimal rpm to give decent range, then no solution will work well.

Hopefully I will be long gone by the time that day arrives.
 
Seems like a change is on the way, up to now its all been about CO2. As most of us know that's far from the only pollutant that is expelled from ICE exhausts. But the effect on the ozone layer has been where the overriding emphasis has been.

Whilst there is little doubt we have to cut green house gases Governments around the world seem to have been ignoring the toxins (other than lead)that affect human health more directly.

The wind of change is starting to blow as more and more of us suffer ill health where vehicle emissions can be proven to be a significant contributor.
I can only see changes accelerating as time goes on.
 
Hopefully I will be long gone by the time that day arrives.

Seriously?

Your current car is a 4-pot diesel (albeit a nice one, I'd agree!) and you can't face a future of crazy-fast electric petrol hybrids that still manage to put out less in the way of pollutants?

My parents have the 3-pot Fiesta ecoboost and while it's not there in terms of performance it sounds infinitely better than my derv. I'm really excited by the idea of a small capacity buzzy little petrol with some serious electric instant torque backing it up.

If we manage to crack metal-air cell technology the battery energy density will go up to being comparable with hydrocarbon fuel which will absolutely transform hybrids.
 

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