What Should Audi Do To Improve The 8V A3 / S3

Quality, or more specifically how it's perceived by customers, is one of the things which always make me laugh at those JD Power surveys. They always made a big deal about how the prestige marques finished way down and the likes of Kia or Hyundai were ranked higher.

It's all about perceived quality and expectations. If you buy a Kia or Hyundai and it squeaks and rattles a bit, you'll just put that down to the cheap construction and accept it as the norm. If an Audi or BMW did the same you'd be back at the dealer screaming at them to fix it. Granted that's just one example but it's the principle - you buy something cheap and you have far lower expectations of quality than if you buy something expensive. Audis fall int the latter category - they're expensive partly because they're put together well and use quality materials, it's not all badge snobbery, although you do pay a bit of a premium for that (£500 per ring perhaps ;) )
 
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S32B said:
If you make a car cheaper you lose out on quality, to make it cheaper one of the biggest costs is in the labour to build it. So instead of one guy fitting 10 parts with plenty of time spare to make sure that those parts are perfect, that same guy 'to build the car cheaper' now has to fit 15 parts with no time spare = he then just bangs them on and sends it down the line regardless of a perfect fit or not, as he doesn't have any spare time to adjust the fit! So now two guys are fitting 30 parts rather than three guys. That then happens all around the factory = 1/3 of the work force is lost = the car is cheaper to build as the wage bill has just come down by 33%.

It's a nonstop process, they even have a 'CIP' team (continuous improvement process) whose job it is to squeeze every last second of time/work out of each employee.

How do I know? - I work in a car factory and have seen the workforce reduced more and more over the past 18 years all to make it cheaper to build. Hence why I'm buying an Audi and not a car that we build :)
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Regardless of your explanation of basic economics, it is undeniable that the car would be "better" if it were EXACTLY the same as it is now, just cheaper.
 
h5djr said:
I've not yet had the chance to watch the engines being built as this is all done at the Gyor factory in Hungary.
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Well all the saloons are built at Gyor and I'm more than happy with the quality of mine so hopefully that bodes well.

I don't think it really matters what country their built in nor the nationality of the employees - Audi will ensure that their processes and values are instilled in the workforce such that they're built to the same standard as in Germany.
 
pat15312 said:
Regardless of your explanation of basic economics, it is undeniable that the car would be "better" if it were EXACTLY the same as it is now, just cheaper.
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That goes without saying, but they can't just make it cheaper without cutting corners or reducing the quality. Everything in life would be better if it was cheaper!
 
CraigI said:
I'm not sure the relevance of the RS5 here but I think I know what you are trying to do so I'll take your bait.
For info the RS5 is much, much better than a S3, which it should be given it costs twice as much. To me, it's worth the premium and is pretty much my perfect car.
I've got the sports package (dynamic steering and auto adjusting suspension) on my RS5 and it comes with a rear diff as standard which helps immeasurably (steering still isn't perfect, but much better than on any other Audi I've had), options like this on the S3 would make it much better a driving prospect and less mundane.
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For your Info, I know how an RS5 Drives & I beg to differ that its a much better Car than the New S3 Saloon.
I would agree that the V8 Engine is fantastic & the Soundtrack is great, but its hardly better in all other Departments!

I've virtually had every 'RS' over the course of the last 10-11years & the couple that I didn't Buy(RS3 & RS5), were due to them being poor to Drive & not that pleasant to look at!
The only reason I've dropped out of the 'RS' Range & moved towards an 'S' Model is for Safety, as RS's have become 'Target' Cars for Thiefs..........I lost my Cherished 70k RS4 a few months back!

From being in all those Cars, you'd think that I'd find alot of Flaws in the 'S', but I really think there Fantastic for their money!
There should be better Options to Improve the Wheels, Stiffness of Suspension, better Front Seats & maybe a Black Optic Grill Pack, but other than that its great!
Obviously, 4Cyl Engine & some of the Styling will always put it in the Shadow of an RS version, but that's just how Audi operate!
 
I'm not saying they can, that's not really our problem. The OP asked the question, what could Audi do to make improve the A3/S3 and that is my answer. Furthermore, this is the only opinion which EVERYONE will be able to agree with.
 
h5djr said:
they never seem 'rushed even though the cars are continuously on the move.
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In our place the lads have to ask for cover on the job just to get a mouthful of water that's how little time they have! It's ridiculous some of the times they set out for the jobs, one part of a job I saw recently was to make five electrical connections in two seconds!!! The thinking behind it was that not all cars need the five connections, so they time it on weighted averages! But when it does need the five he still has the same amount of time to do the entire job as a car which only needs one, he then may get four cars on the bounce that need all five connections, so there's no way he can do it all in the time allowed without 'cutting corners' = sh*t quality.
 
Phil_S3 said:
Not going to happen. Better stick with your old fashioned Golf Interior. ;)
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And that is why I've got the Golf indeed ;) very accurate remark. I wouldn't class it as old fashioned but as a solid ergonomic design. However this thread is about what to improve about the A3 not the Golf. No need to be so insecure about it.

Actually I am hopeful that they will change away from the current design fad and move back to a nice proper looking dashboard again. I am confident it is a temporary blip.
 
dejongj said:
Actually I am hopeful that they will change away from the current design fad and move back to a nice proper looking dashboard again. I am confident it is a temporary blip.
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You're living in a dream world I'm afraid. Dashes with the screen integrated lower down look very dated now and the trend is to raise the screen up higher so it's more in the driver's eyeline and thus safer. The Golf's screen will move up higher in future, not the A3's lower.
 
I much prefer the A3's motorised screen than the ones in some of the newer Mercs, which look for all the world (to me) like an iPad mounted on the dash with an aftermarket bracket. I find them clumsy and incongruous, whereas the Audi solution looks slickly integrated.
 
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Relliott6879 said:
I much prefer the A3's motorised screen than the ones in some of the newer Mercs, which look for all the world (to me) like an iPad mounted on the dash with an aftermarket bracket. I find them clumsy and incongruous, whereas the Audi solution looks slickly integrated.
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Oh yeah the Merc screens are hilarious and hideous in equal measure. They really do look like a total afterthought - maybe they actually were?

When it comes to the German marques, Mercs have never appealed to me in the slightest. I prefer Audis over BMWs but would have one of the latter - there's no way I'd drive a Merc.
 
pat15312 said:
Regardless of your explanation of basic economics, it is undeniable that the car would be "better" if it were EXACTLY the same as it is now, just cheaper.
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May be, but the A3 would be even more common on the road than it is at the moment and would cease to be a 'premium' brand. When I purchased my first A3 back in 1998 they were a very rare sight and very much a 'premium brand' in the UK. Not so any more.
 
Vertigo1 said:
When it comes to the German marques, Mercs have never appealed to me in the slightest. I prefer Audis over BMWs but would have one of the latter - there's no way I'd drive a Merc.
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You're missing out :p
 
Vertigo1 said:
Oh yeah the Merc screens are hilarious and hideous in equal measure.
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Design and styling not your strong point? ;)


Just so it's out there - and I know this evokes strong opinions ....

The "iPad stuck on look" is actually by intent - the design team looked at a retracting screen, but after many customer clinics etc. the conclusion was that the screen was pretty much integral to the functions of the car, so there was little demand from the customer clinic to make it retractable, along with all the associated costs and complexity.

The result is something called the "floating (tablet) screen" concept

It's likely to feature in more MB models in the future.


ejikTiY.jpg




http://500sec.com/the-interior-design-of-the-new-mercedes-b-class/


(Yes yes, I know, lots of people think its ugly, however the drive in a proper AMG more than makes up for the floating tablet ;) )
 
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h5djr said:
May be, but the A3 would be even more common on the road than it is at the moment and would cease to be a 'premium' brand. When I purchased my first A3 back in 1998 they were a very rare sight and very much a 'premium brand' in the UK. Not so any more.
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Eighth highest selling car this year apparently: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/85843/best-selling-cars-2014

At least it's still more exclusive than a Focus or Astra - I notice the 3-series is still outselling the Mondeo.
 
Relliott6879 said:
I much prefer the A3's motorised screen than the ones in some of the newer Mercs, which look for all the world (to me) like an iPad mounted on the dash with an aftermarket bracket. I find them clumsy and incongruous, whereas the Audi solution looks slickly integrated.
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To me it is a choice between two Evils ;) Luckily it is only in the lower models in the range for Mercedes to have those stupid iPad lookalike ones in. None of that in my new GL Class. Plus no need for mono.pur either :p Nicely double stitched leather all over including the dashboard and ceiling and door handles....Actually more leather than in a Amsterdam nightclub...But I'm digressing, I still think the Audi pop-out one is not nice, it could be ok but what is below it looks so absent. And I disagree that high up media screens are safer. On the contrary I think it is a distraction designed by the tom-tom generation. There is already DIS integration, or in other brands HUDs, no need for the media screen to light up your eyeline as well.

veeeight said:
Design and styling not your strong point? ;)


Just so it's out there - and I know this evokes strong opinions ....

The "iPad stuck on look" is actually by intent - the design team looked at a retracting screen, but after many customer clinics etc. the conclusion was that the screen was pretty much integral to the functions of the car, so there was little demand from the customer clinic to make it retractable, along with all the associated costs and complexity.

The result is something called the "floating (tablet) screen" concept

It's likely to feature in more MB models in the future.


850466_1579808_3779_2560_11C788_02.jpg


http://500sec.com/the-interior-design-of-the-new-mercedes-b-class/


(Yes yes, I know, lots of people think its ugly, however the drive in a proper AMG more than makes up for the floating tablet ;) )
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Really really really ugly. I've had a few from the bottom of the range like the A/B/C class when my GL Class went in. It is plasticy, super large rim around it, an akward location and just unnecessary. A gimmick or fad in my opinion. It will go away.
 
h5djr said:
Maybe, but the A3 would be even more common on the road than it is at the moment and would cease to be a 'premium' brand. When I purchased my first A3 back in 1998 they were a very rare sight and very much a 'premium brand' in the UK. Not so anymore.
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But why would that be a problem? It would be great for more people to drive about in cars that makes them feel good about themselves.
 
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veeeight said:
Design and styling not your strong point? ;)
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I just hate the styling, inside and out. I've no doubt they're good cars mechanically & dynamically and so forth, the design and styling just doesn't appeal to me at all. With BMWs, I quite like the exterior design of some of their models but despise their interiors, far too stark and clinical and not "welcoming" enough. Audi has it all for me, both interior and exterior design.

I know everyone's tastes differ, I'm just expressing mine :)

As for the screen - I don't really care whether it was intentional or how many focus groups they used - it looks like a hideous, laughable afterthought that's been glued to the dash. I have quite a few friends who are "into" cars and, whilst some like it, the prevailing opinion amongst everyone is that it's ugly. Not a very scientific poll I grant you :p
 
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It will be interesting to see what the Audi designers come up with if they have to go to an Android or Apple screen in to future. Google are certainly pushing the idea of an Android screen incorporated into the dash as the way forward. No doubt Apple will also be doing the same. But will we as the end customers, still have the choice of which system we prefer. Perhaps Mercedes are already part of the way there!
 
h5djr said:
It will be interesting to see what the Audi designers come up with if they have to go to an Android or Apple screen in to future. Google are certainly pushing the idea of an Android screen incorporated into the dash as the way forward. No doubt Apple will also be doing the same. But will we as the end customers, still have the choice of which system we prefer. Perhaps Mercedes are already part of the way there!
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To me it makes a lot more sense to support Carplay and Android Auto and whatever Microsoft may do. And I agree they should support it now, it is not like it hasn't been around for a while now. Pioneer and Alpine have been doing it for a while, unless it is standard I really don't fancy paying for the inferior incar systems. Saying that, if the screen get plonked in or high up in the car I'm not interested. As such I don't think it will be that different unfortunately.

https://www.audi.co.uk/about-audi/l...cts-with-apple-carplay-and-andrioid-auto.html
 
Also, let's compare the concept drawing with the reality shall we?

ejikTiY.jpg


2012-mercedes-a-class-first-drive-review_15.jpg


Umm just lol! The concept sketch looks decent with the screen sitting in a nice little dip in the dash and tilted backward so it looks all streamlined and integrated.

The implementation in the A-Class is horrific and looks like someone has blutacked a Tesco Hudl to the dashboard.
 
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dejongj said:
No need to be so insecure about it.
.
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Oh, not insecure at all, just pointing out that perhaps you are wishing for the design past with a fugly built-in screen low down on the dash and buttons everywhere. The design language being used by Audi (new TT a perfect example) is for no clutter but a luxury feel, something the Golf will never have as that is not the Golf market demographic. I spent a bit of time testing the R and the rattles, design and poorly put together interior put me off, which was a shame.
Talking about insecurity, which you raised, it surprises me you feel the need to try and qualify your purchase of a Golf on an Audi A3 forum. Also, as you keep trying to tell us how rich you are, you might even buy a decent car next time LOL ;) :)
 
AudiBoy1976 said:
For your Info, I know how an RS5 Drives & I beg to differ that its a much better Car than the New S3 Saloon.
I would agree that the V8 Engine is fantastic & the Soundtrack is great, but its hardly better in all other Departments!

I've virtually had every 'RS' over the course of the last 10-11years & the couple that I didn't Buy(RS3 & RS5), were due to them being poor to Drive & not that pleasant to look at!
The only reason I've dropped out of the 'RS' Range & moved towards an 'S' Model is for Safety, as RS's have become 'Target' Cars for Thiefs..........I lost my Cherished 70k RS4 a few months back!

From being in all those Cars, you'd think that I'd find alot of Flaws in the 'S', but I really think there Fantastic for their money!
There should be better Options to Improve the Wheels, Stiffness of Suspension, better Front Seats & maybe a Black Optic Grill Pack, but other than that its great!
Obviously, 4Cyl Engine & some of the Styling will always put it in the Shadow of an RS version, but that's just how Audi operate!
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Ah the age old I know how it drives, but haven't owned it internet opinion........regardless of how qualified you claim to be it will always dilute the worth of your opinion I'm afraid.

If you are happy with the S3 that's all that matters.
It wasn't for me for reasons valid to me and I cut my losses and I've moved onwards and upwards and the RS5 is the best new car I've had for many a year and one I will be keeping my hands on (which is rare for me).
Different things for different people.

Just don't ruin your S3 by trying to make it look like something it isn't and putting silly looking wheels on it............
 
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Phil_S3 said:
Oh, not insecure at all, just pointing out that perhaps you are wishing for the design past with a fugly built-in screen low down on the dash and buttons everywhere. The design language being used by Audi (new TT a perfect example) is for no clutter but a luxury feel, something the Golf will never have as that is not the Golf market demographic. I spent a bit of time testing the R and the rattles, design and poorly put together interior put me off, which was a shame.
Talking about insecurity, which you raised, it surprises me you feel the need to try and qualify your purchase of a Golf on an Audi A3 forum. Also, as you keep trying to tell us how rich you are, you might even buy a decent car next time LOL ;) :)
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???? What on earth are you on about. Don't forget I've also got an Audi. The Golf has got a lot in common with the S3. I think I've been nothing but moderate and considerate on these boards. Yet you seem tone wanting to make nothing but childish digs.

And regarding a decent car. Hmm yes try that one again.
 
I have never really liked Mercedes cars and until today I had never looked at the 'B series' I have driven quite a few BMWs but never a Mercedes. With all the chat about the B series I decided to have a look at their website. Not a very good website for a start. I eventually downloaded the B series brochure and looking at the dashboard pictures the I think the air vents are the worst thing They look hideous. A lot of the rest I could accept, even the screen, if it is touch screen, but I would hate to have to have to look at those vents.
 
h5djr said:
I have never really liked Mercedes cars and until today I had never looked at the 'B series' I have driven quite a few BMWs but never a Mercedes. With all the chat about the B series I decided to have a look at their website. Not a very good website for a start. I eventually downloaded the B series brochure and looking at the dashboard pictures the I think the air vents are the worst thing They look hideous. A lot of the rest I could accept, even the screen, if it is touch screen, but I would hate to have to have to look at those vents.
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Just found this pic of the B-Class dash

Mercedes-B-Class-EV-Dashboard.jpg


You're right - that's nasty. The whole central slab thing looks so dated. I know the 8V came in for some criticism when it was launched with regards to the lack of a central console and the big "hole" left under the heating controls but it's the way forward.

That central slab looks awful - the three vents with that daft cross design and a tablet perched on top, then under that we have a panel festooned with buttons that controls god knows what. What on earth is a number keypad doing there? Is that for entering phone numbers? Really?! The heating controls under that look ok except they're ridiculously low down - talk about having to take your eyes totally off the road to see them. Lastly they seem to have some kind of control knob on the central bit between the seats but it's just stuck there by itself with no buttons around it like the MMI. Looks like another after-thought.

One last thing, what on earth is with the seat controls on the door? Seat controls are seldom-used controls which should be tucked away out of sight, usually on the side of the seat itself - not right at the top of the door just creating visual clutter.

This cabin was designed by an idiot.
 
Thread has gone :sign ot: I'm afriad

Now we've got a Merc lovers / haters thread :banghead:

Was rather hoping for some user improvements for Audi to ponder ... ;)

Oh & I would like to see some of the nicer exclusive colours released as 'normal' spec colours too :thumbs up:
 
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Well, I think the New A3/S3 has a cracking Dashboard/Interior..............probably the best Audi Dash so far!
Obviously, Audi's done a different take on their New TT, with looks nice too, but I still think I prefer the A3 one!

Regarding Colours, I wish that Audi would bring back Sprint Blue & Avus Silver as Option Colours, rather than having to Pay the crazy Exclusive Prices for them........they both looked awesome!
 
It's a common opinion by most "professionals" that the Golf R is the best hatchback to drive, but the audi a3 range has the best interior. Golfs usually win the awards for best hatchback etc because they are a high quality for decent value for money. If the A3 were the same price as golfs or "cough" cheaper the they would certainly be classed as the best hatchback.
I think the S3 is pretty much perfect for what it is, although I have to agree that there should be a better selection of alloys and 19's as standard.
For the performance on offer I think it is great value
 
audi upgrades
The Challinor said:
Same
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I absolutely love mine...am on holiday just now and i really can't wait to get back on New years eve to drive it again...sad or what..lol

Oh and what Audi should do to improve is offer Interior Light Pack as standard. That is the only thing missing for me.....( yes i should have ordered a new S3 but decided used was the way forward for me and the deal i got was v good so can't complain too much..& Trups can help me with the LED upgrades lol
 
One great improvement Audi could make.... Copy Skoda and make it possible to download the Owner's Manual for each model so that you can find out what does what BEFORE you decide to purchase the car. That way you can see whether you are OK with all the controls etc or whether there is something that will annoys you for ever. Either that or you have to have a friendly dealer, like mine, who is quite happy to let you have one from one of their demonstrators until you make up you mind and then is happy for you to keep it until your new car arrives.

I have just been looking at buying some upgraded hi-fi and every manufacturer makes the Users Manual's available on-line which shows all the controls and all the connection points. It is the same with almost everything except cars and Audi in particular. Skoda can do it so why not Audi.
 
As mentioned the ride on country/bumpy roads whilst travelling at speed could be improved. I thought i was alone in thinking it was a bit unnerving.

I'd like to see a heated front screen too.

Other than that I think it's a fabulous car. Everyone who's been in mine has commented on the quality of the interior, even without mono.pur. This is my first Audi and certainly won't be my last. I'm already, after 9 months plotting it's replacement. Currently torn between an S3, A6 Ultra Black Edition, maybe a TT or blowing the budget and getting an A7.
 
Vertigo1 said:
Just found this pic of the B-Class dash


You're right - that's nasty. The whole central slab thing looks so dated. I know the 8V came in for some criticism when it was launched with regards to the lack of a central console and the big "hole" left under the heating controls but it's the way forward.

That central slab looks awful - the three vents with that daft cross design and a tablet perched on top, then under that we have a panel festooned with buttons that controls god knows what. What on earth is a number keypad doing there? Is that for entering phone numbers? Really?! The heating controls under that look ok except they're ridiculously low down - talk about having to take your eyes totally off the road to see them. Lastly they seem to have some kind of control knob on the central bit between the seats but it's just stuck there by itself with no buttons around it like the MMI. Looks like another after-thought.

One last thing, what on earth is with the seat controls on the door? Seat controls are seldom-used controls which should be tucked away out of sight, usually on the side of the seat itself - not right at the top of the door just creating visual clutter.

This cabin was designed by an idiot.
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This is not the thread to debate it in, but you are showing your lack of knowledge of ergonomics and human factors in deriding many of the outstanding features of the Mercedes cabin.

I'll give you one example, the placement and the layout of the seat adjustment buttons. Many other manufacturers, including Audi, pay Mercedes royalties to use this design feature and location.

If you personally don't like it, that's fine, but that's not to say it's universally accepted or deeply flawed logic. ;)
 
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