1.8TFSI and 2.0TFSI S3 : Metallic Rustle/Rattle between 1500-3000 rpm

I'm surprised there is no resolution to this when VW has a fix on their cars. I have experience this sound on my car but to be honest, didn't really bother me. Note the Audi rings on that part.


Rattling Noises from Engine Compartment Area or Exhaust System

21 10 01 August 25, 2010 2024061

Customers may complain of a rattling noise from engine or exhaust area while accelerating from 1800-3000 RPM.
In order to complete proper diagnosis and ensure that the noise is coming from the turbocharger, use the following procedure:
1. Ensure that there is no physical internal or external damage to the turbocharger. If damage is observed, continue diagnosis and repair as necessary. If no damage is observed, proceed to step 2.
2. Test drive the vehicle to duplicate and familiarize yourself with the noise. Noise can typically be duplicated by driving up a moderate incline, beginning at 35 mph in 4th gear (manual or automatic transmission) and accelerating through the RPM range of 1800-3000 RPMunder moderate to heavy throttle. Obey all local traffic laws.
3. Once you have confirmed and familiarized yourself with the noise, attach a 2 ounce wheel weight to the wastegate actuator rod and take the vehicle for another test drive. If after attaching the weight to the actuator rod the noise is quieter or has changed in pitch, DO NOT replace the turbocharger. Remove the weight, create a VTA ticket in ElsaWeb and contact the Volkswagen Technical Helpline at 800-555-5555. If after attaching the weight to the actuator rod the noise has not changed, remove the weight and continue diagnosis and repair as necessary.



SSA Q.T.M. INSTALLED MODIFIED WASTEGATE CLIP
174WVW03



TSB #2024061 for "Rattling Noises from Engine Compartment Area or Exhaust System" on 2008-2012 CCTA and CBFA engines.

"Test drive the vehicle to duplicate and familiarize yourself with the noise. Noise can typically be duplicated by driving up a moderate incline, beginning at 35 mph in 4th gear (manual or automatic transmission) and accelerating through the RPM range of 1800-3000 RPM under moderate to heavy throttle. Obey all local traffic laws. "

"Because of exhaust gas pulsations the wastegate flap and actuator rod vibrate at the introduction of boost pressure."

The fix has been talked about in the past, it's a simple metal clip that goes on the waste gate rod.

Currently no clips are available, they haven't been distributed to dealers yet, as of today (6/22/11) there are none available in any of the North American warehouses. Rumor is they SHOULD be readily available by July.


The part number is: 06J145220A
Whilst you can't yet order it within Australia, you can order it overseas. It is now available to order at ECS Tuning.Here is a direct link to the product page.

So if you REALLY CANT WAIT for VGA to work out what's happening, you could order it in yourselves. Note that it's not the cheapest "clip" you'll ever buy and the shipping is just as expensive as the part if you are ordering a single clip. Though, if you could get 10 or 20 people together and order them at once...

Or just be patient and wait for VGA.

Here are pictures of the part for those who have not yet seen it:
Upload 2014 11 20 17 17 55


Upload 2014 11 20 17 16 6
Upload 2014 11 20 17 17 15
 

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Are you sure that fix relates to the S3 CJXC engine, and not any other engine (eg: 1.4 Wastegate Rod Clip issue)?

The dates and engine codes mentioned don't stack up.
 
I remember reading something about the 1.4 122ps turbo rattle that was fixed with a stronger bracket, but this is new to me. Hope it gets sorted for your sanity! I know i'd go insane hearing things like that..
 
This clip fixed the rattling noise on the old 2.0L liter motor (used in the Golf 6 GTI for example). It does not work with the actual 1.8L or 2.0L (for example Audi S3) motor.
 
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sonicblue83 said:
Hi Francky, are you already back in France? I'm wondering a lot if the noise is gone.

I live in Switzerland and my S3 also has the rattling noise. So far it looks like there is no solution to it. But on 11. october 2015 they released a new turbo revision. So far nobody knows that changed and if it fixes the rattling, but maybe there is some little hope, specially if Francky got a new turbo revision (until now Audi said that changing the parts doesn't help and therefore the dealers shall not replace anything by now).
Click to expand...

Hi,

I have been arrived yesterday, so I could check this morning...
The noise has been reduced, but is still there ( for different RPM...). It may be the noise of S-Tronic 7... I'll call m'y dealer tomorrow.
It you speak french I'll give you more details !!!

Audi has to investigate for a new Fix.....
 
Hi Francky,

When I read it, I understand French, I just don't write it very good. I would be glad if you could give me more details (public or in a private message, whatever you prefer).

At least Audi France wants to find a fix. In Switzerland they don't wanna do anything since there is an official TPI from Audi which tells the dealers not to try any fix because they have to pay it by themself.
 
Audi has performed an "engine software update" to my car and the metal noise has improved. It's not totally gone but it's soft enough to not cause nuisance.
 
In Brazil also the problem is not official thu their TPI, so they dont want to fix it
 
@raumplan
Do you have further information about this "engine software update"? What was it for except the rattling noise? Did it change something else, for example are the rpm a little higher now (that would explain why the rattling noise has improved)? Do you drive the 1.8L/2.0L A3 or the S3? And in which country do you live? Can you get more informations about the update form your dealer? If we had a TPI or something like that we could show it to our dealers too.

Sorry about all these questions. It's just I'm very interested in this software update but in Switzerland I never heard about it.

@samucachang
The TPI says that there is no fix so far and therefore they shall not try to fix it at all. So it's no difference to Brazil right now.
 
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I am with sonicblue, it would be great to know the version of the update and if the update is intended to be 1.8 or 2.0 engines.
 
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sonicblue83 said:
@raumplan
Do you have further information about this "engine software update"? What was it for except the rattling noise? Did it change something else, for example are the rpm a little higher now (that would explain why the rattling noise has improved)? Do you drive the 1.8L/2.0L A3 or the S3? And in which country do you live? Can you get more informations about the update form your dealer? If we had a TPI or something like that we could show it to our dealers too.

Sorry about all these questions. It's just I'm very interested in this software update but in Switzerland I never heard about it.

@samucachang
The TPI says that there is no fix so far and therefore they shall not try to fix it at all. So it's no difference to Brazil right now.
Click to expand...

Hi there, where a you in Switzerland ? I'm nearby Lausanne.
 
couldn't get too much technical info from the dealer. but they just said its a engine software update, the noise is not totally gone but its definitely not as loud. btw its the S3 8V i am driving to answer a question above.
 
I have only gotton the car back for a weekend and I don't notice any change in behaviour/reaction...yet

One thing very noticeable though, previously when I start the car from overnight the metallic noise will start immediately when the car is idle but now this is gone.

While driving at low RPM below 3000 there is still the metallic rustling noise but i find it quieter and more bearable than before.
 
Audi actualized the TPI. It's now official that there will NOT be any solution to the rattling noise.
 
If you have an S3 8V you will have an EA888 Gen3 engine, most likely engine code CJXC (EU Variant)

Other markets have different variants (and Engine Codes), eg: USA does not have indirect injectors.
 
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veeeight said:
From the TPI today:


LCo1PUg.jpg
Click to expand...

Good find @veeeight, but disappointing.

Since there is no intended fix, I assume that in the interests of transparency, all A3 1.8 and S3 demo cars will now have a couple of tin cans on strings tied to the rear towing eye ('Just Married' style) so prospective buyers get the genuine sound experience before they buy......

John.
 
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Or a garden rake with metal tines to tow along behind ;)
 
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audi upgrades
Hi, I had my car at the dealer for a squeaky driver seat on my S3, I also had the rustling noise but I did not care about it.
They gave me the car back and the noise is much attenuated, almost unperceivable. Maybe they update the engine software? They told me nothing about it...I will ask.
 
Yes, it would be great if you ask your dealer if the did something else than fixing the seat. In which country do you live? I read your profile, I guess you live in Naples although I don't think Naples is ugly. ;-)
 
Hello, I've not posted on here but I've been following this thread for a while. I'm interested in purchasing the S3 as my next car, because it ticks all the boxes of what I'm looking for, but reading through this thread really makes me doubt whether it's a good idea to order an S3. Especially since Audi now clearly states that no fix will be provided.

Is this a problem that really affects ALL S3s or is it a 'hit or miss' thing that some cars suffer from and others don't (or to a lesser extent)? I see a lot of people on this forum posting how much they enjoy the car and the test drives they did, which makes me wonder if some cars don't have this problem or if people don't consider this rattling a deal breaker.

Does it occur every time in that rev range? For example when driving at a steady speed with a gear selected that puts you in the affected rev zone or only on accelleration or decelleration?
 
Same here about to collect my s3 saloon on jam 2nd I may cancel now snd order a tts mk3

Any info would be appreciated I was build week 49

This year
 
@Skeiz and @Graham Mckenzie
If you ask me, ALL S3 have the rattling noise. Some have it since day one and some are said to get it later after driving some kilometers. In my opinion all of them have it since day one just not every one at the same volume. My opinion is based on the several cars (Audi S3 and Golf 7 R which has the same engine) I drove - which all of them had the rattling noise - and the fact that Audi itself says a replacement will not fix the problem. So if it were a hit and miss thing than replacing the turbo may fix the problem, but it actually doesn't (several S3 and 7R drivers already got a new turbo, no one had the rattling fixed with the new turbo).

That said, inside of the car the rattling noise has a very high frequency volume which sounds like kind of a whistle to me (I don't know the right word for it in English). From the outside it is clearly hearble as a metallic rattling noise. It only appears between ca. 1200rpm and 3000rpm (if you buy a car with DSG than you will automatically drive 95% of your time between 1200rpm and 3000rpm) and is mostly hearable if you accelerate softly (over 3000rpm or if you accelerate fastly the motor noise is too loud to hear the rattle). It also only appears if the car is moving and you accelerate (under load). In my opinion the noise is also more hearable if the engine sound is set to dynamic instead of comfort. One dealer also told me that the volume of the rattling noise changes depending on the temperature and air humidity which would explain why on some days it is very loud and on others much much quieter.
The conclusion is, the noise is always there and once you heard it you always will. The only "fix" is to put the music louder... But I'm also sure that some people can't hear the high frequency volume and that's why some people say their car doesn't have the rattling noise although it does (so far I still have to see one S3 that doesn't rattle).

The S3 is fun to drive and looks gorgeous, but would I buy it again? For me, it's a clear NO. The rattling noise is just a too big deal breaker. Other people may see it different and that's ok, since it's very subjective how much the rattling noise will bother you. My recommendation is: go on a test drive maybe on two or three until you are sure you heard the rattling noise. Than think about it very carefully if it will bother you or not (personally it would also not bother me too much on a test drive but when you hear it every single day, every time you touch the gas pedal it gets more and more annoying).

One thing that may be important to Graham Mckenzie: Audi says that all 1.8L and 2.0L TFSI engines are affected by the rattling noise. The 2015 TT with 1.8L already has the rattling noise, so the risk is very high that the TTS MK3 will rattle too, especially since Audi says there is no fix (if there was a fix for the 2.0L TTS and for sure this fix would also work on the 2.0L S3). Just consider that when you decide between the S3 and the TTS. :)


@danilotto
Thanks for asking your dealer. So far I haven't heard about any engine update in Switzerland neither. Maybe there is one released for some countries only (in the US for example the motor has less horsepower and is made for lower quality gas (unleaded 95) while in Switzerland it needs unleaded 98). That could explain why in some countries there is an engine update and in some not.
 
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sonicblue83 said:
@Skeiz and @Graham Mckenzie
If you ask me, ALL S3 have the rattling noise. Some have it since day one and some are said to get it later after driving some kilometers. In my opinion all of them have it since day one just not every one at the same volume. My opinion is based on the several cars (Audi S3 and Golf 7 R which has the same engine) I drove - which all of them had the rattling noise - and the fact that Audi itself says a replacement will not fix the problem. So if it were a hit and miss thing than replacing the turbo may fix the problem, but it actually doesn't (several S3 and 7R drivers already got a new turbo, no one had the rattling fixed with the new turbo).

That said, inside of the car the rattling noise has a very high frequency volume which sounds like kind of a whistle to me (I don't know the right word for it in English). From the outside it is clearly hearble as a metallic rattling noise. It only appears between ca. 1200rpm and 3000rpm (if you buy a car with DSG than you will automatically drive 95% of your time between 1200rpm and 3000rpm) and is mostly hearable if you accelerate softly (over 3000rpm or if you accelerate fastly the motor noise is too loud to hear the rattle). It also only appears if the car is moving and you accelerate (under load). In my opinion the noise is also more hearable if the engine sound is set to dynamic instead of comfort. One dealer also told me that the volume of the rattling noise changes depending on the temperature and air humidity which would explain why on some days it is very loud and on others much much quieter.
The conclusion is, the noise is always there and once you heard it you always will. The only "fix" is to put the music louder... But I'm also sure that some people can't hear the high frequency volume and that's why some people say their car doesn't have the rattling noise although it does (so far I still have to see one S3 that doesn't rattle).

The S3 is fun to drive and looks gorgeous, but would I buy it again? For me, it's a clear NO. The rattling noise is just a too big deal breaker. Other people may see it different and that's ok, since it's very subjective how much the rattling noise will bother you. My recommendation is: go on a test drive maybe on two or three until you are sure you heard the rattling noise. Than think about it very carefully if it will bother you or not (personally it would also not bother me too much on a test drive but when you hear it every single day, every time you touch the gas pedal it gets more and more annoying).

One thing that may be important to Graham Mckenzie: Audi says that all 1.8L and 2.0L TFSI engines are affected by the rattling noise. The 2015 TT with 1.8L already has the rattling noise, so the risk is very high that the TTS MK3 will rattle too, especially since Audi says there is no fix (if there was a fix for the 2.0L TTS and for sure this fix would also work on the 2.0L S3). Just consider that when you decide between the S3 and the TTS. :)


@danilotto
Thanks for asking your dealer. So far I haven't heard about any engine update in Switzerland neither. Maybe there is one released for some countries only (in the US for example the motor has less horsepower and is made for lower quality gas (unleaded 95) while in Switzerland it needs unleaded 98). That could explain why in some countries there is an engine update and in some not.
Click to expand...

I'm surely not deaf, even not partly, and also very demanding in term of "noise" and SO FAR my S3 is OK after about 19'000kms + MTM Stage 1.
 
lucas-suisse said:
I'm surely not deaf, even not partly, and also very demanding in term of "noise" and SO FAR my S3 is OK after about 19'000kms + MTM Stage 1.
Click to expand...

Maybe we can meet once and you show me you car. As I said until I didn't see any S3 that doesn't rattle I don't believe it. But if yours doesn't I would be very interested in seeing it. Did you swap the downpipe? Because some people are reporting that swaping the downpipe for a tuning one the rattling noise is gone/ not hearable anymore.
 
I did not change anything except the MTM Stage 1 plug at about 9'000 kms. I once again drived this morning and really tried hard to hear any sound... but really nothing. SO FAR SO GOOD ! Will immediatly report in case something new. As of today 19'000 kms. I'll drive a loit in the coming days and should I hear something I'll be back...
 
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Honestly I still think your S3 rattles too you just didn't identify the noise as rattling yet. ;) From February to May I will be in Geneva a few times to watch soccer. If you are interested in meeting and comparing our S3 just let me know. ;)

To add a reason why I think every S3 rattles: Audi says it too. In English they say the rattling noise is "normal". Well that's not exactly what they say in German. In German they call it "Stand der Technik" which means something like stand/status of the technique. Audi specially says that they can't fix the problem because it's part of how their motor works (it's their status of technique). If some cars have the rattling noise and some don't, it obviously wouldn't be status of the technique, Audi would investigate why some cars rattle and some don't and there would be a fix by now or in the future. They had four turbo revisions by now and the rattle is still there. Also Audi stopped investigating the problem and trying to find a solution. The only reason why they would do it is because they are not able to fix it.

Of course it's possible that in reverse of a normal problem (let's say from 100'000 cars there is always one defective car) there are some "defective" cars (since Audi says the rattle is "normal") which don't rattle (the "defect" in this case would be something good, as I said like the reverse situation of a normal defect) and lucas-suisse has one of them. Personally I don't think that's the case. Most probably many people have a wrong imagination what the rattling noise sounds like inside the car. It's very difficult to capture the noise on audio so far this is the best file I found:
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=726504

An interesting point is also that mostly young people get bothered by the rattling noise while older people often don't hear it or say it's not so bad. Maybe that has something to do with the high frequency and that with an older age the ear gets worse (the same happens with the noise of the marden trap, while children feel a pain because of the noise older people can't hear it). But that's just some speculation by now. :)
 
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Not hit 30 yet and do not have / can't hear the rattle. So think the age thing can be discounted. I don't doubt some people have this rattle, but clearly some of us don't have it too. Would be interested to hear some better audio of it at some point.
 
Trust me, in this audio the rattling noise is clearly hearable. It sounds exactely the way the rattling sounds inside the car. If you don't hear it in this audio than you also won't hear it on your car even if it has it. This brings me back to my theory that (at least) most of the people who say their S3 doesn't rattle just can hear the rattling noise but their car still rattles.
 
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