S3 or Golf R or even an S1?

I'm happy to agree that the R is dynamically better than the S3. I think VW have a great history of setting up Golfs to drive really well.

But that the press keep praising them, along with the apparent stunning lease deals will mean that in a few years the R will be a very common second hand vehicle. This should ensure that resale R values will be relatively low compared to the more rare S3.
 
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steeve said:
I'm happy to agree that the R is dynamically better than the S3. I think VW have a great history of setting up Golfs to drive really well.

But that the press keep praising them, along with the apparent stunning lease deals will mean that in a few years the R will be a very common second hand vehicle. This should ensure that resale R values will be relatively low compared to the more rare S3.
Click to expand...
Bit frightening for those who've bought and not leased their Golf R's ...
 
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................and of course you cant get a Golf R saloon.
 
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steeve said:
I'm happy to agree that the R is dynamically better than the S3. I think VW have a great history of setting up Golfs to drive really well.

But that the press keep praising them, along with the apparent stunning lease deals will mean that in a few years the R will be a very common second hand vehicle. This should ensure that resale R values will be relatively low compared to the more rare S3.
Click to expand...

Don't fully agree with the last part. Why are people going to pay a premium for a 'lesser' car?

Only time will tell!

Dave
 
Dtwm1 said:
But you can't get an S3 avant either…...
Click to expand...

Ewwww Golf R estate looks c*** IMHO . If I wanted an estate then I'd go for a S4.
 
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S3
Exclusive Portuguese Blue
Correct number of doors
 
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Beauty beholder etc.

I personally think the A3/S3 SB has very fugly proportions. :/
 
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S3 vs Golf R

The view from the 'the other side' in Oz
http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread.php?15933-MK7-R-V-S3&s=47b677ab4294076dfbce6eb6695a24d6

& South Africa
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/608004-Audi-S3-vs-Golf-R-vs-BMW-235i

Interesting ...
ponder.gif
 
The Challinor has been in my car.

Several times.

I've had to clean up after him on every occasion ;)
 
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veeeight said:
The Challinor has been in my car.

Several times.

I've had to clean up after him on every occasion ;)
Click to expand...
PMSL :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Gotta have pics coz that colour is sure exclusive. Even Mr. Google is struggling ...
 
Haven't posted this yet as been super busy but have now had a chance to drive an R for a a few hours a while back and have tried to put down my thoughts on the differences between the two below (seems quite apt!).

For me, The big difference between the two cars is the confidence (or lack of it) they give when pushing on. Please bare with me while and try and explain this.....

My S3 goes long periods (3/4 weeks) without being driven because of work commitments. After so long without driving it I find it takes me a good couple of hours to get "used" to driving it again. My daily driver is an F30 320d - drives and handles very different to my S3. The big issues IMO with the S3 are:-
  • The steering goes from light to heavy without warning at low speeds. I personally don't think its a gradual transition and therefore I find it slightly unnerving trying to drive sharp corners.
  • Steering is inaccurate and although the rack feels fast to me, it does not seem to turn as keenly as my steering input requires.
  • Medium / high speed damping is poor. It's quite difficult to drive the S3 in a spirited way I find on anything but perfectly surfaced roads where the car bounces around a bit too much (smacked my head on the headlining a few times). This does not inspire confidence to really enjoy the car.
About a month a go I had a chance to drive my work colleagues R up to Birmingham for a course (after much nagging). We have a blanket company insurance policy so no worries on that front. This R was a 5 door, DSG, standard dampers etc. My biggest surprise with the R was after about 15 minutes driving I felt very confident with all my inputs. I really enjoyed the drive! My thoughts after 110 miles on a mix of roads were as follows:-
  • Steering "feels" quicker and is more accurate in the R. In fast corners the steering input seem to correlate better with the bank of the turn. The front end turns in sharper and dare I say it I thought it felt easier to plant in general.
  • The steering is weighted far better - I left it in the "race" setting and was very consistent. It kept some heaviness at slow speeds which suits me much better.
  • Damping is streets better. Soaks up bumps very well and no issues at high speed. Around a few corners I felt more confident with a bit more throttle. Don't get that with my S3 - when I was giving it some beans in the R this was the big noticeable difference.
So overall the R is sharper in my opinion and that allows a lot more confidence to push on. Steering and damping is what makes it so different. I might be totally wrong of course but they are my honest thoughts - would love to hear of other people's experiences of the two to see if they were similar to mine.

Finally some other interesting R observations:
  • Touch screen system is cumbersome and not great to use.
  • The "soundaktor" thing sounds much more fake in the R. S3 sounds more natural IMO.
  • Lots of shiny cheap plastics and rubbers.
  • The seats are not as good
I'll get my coat :undwech:
 
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I agree with pretty much most of that but I like the firmness of the R seats if not the look of them.
 
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Good write up Pulp :)

I had to shout at the S3 suspension today.

I was in a situation where I had to make a quick swerve around a dozy pillock, and was aware of a X5 breathing down my neck. So no time for hesitation.

At the same moment I swerved back to get back into the correct lane, the car hit a small bump/compression, and it nearly pitched/threw me into the path of the X5. Wheels definitely lost contact with the ground.

The S3 is not good in these situations, albeit they are challenging for any car. But the dampers are definitely poo for fast road work.

I do agree that it took me ages to find a comfortable driving position in the S3.

And listening out of the window to the Golf R exhaust, it's definitely louder/deeper in Race Mode than S3 in Dynamic mode.
 
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Pulp84 said:
Haven't posted this yet as been super busy but have now had a chance to drive an R for a a few hours a while back and have tried to put down my thoughts on the differences between the two below (seems quite apt!).

For me, The big difference between the two cars is the confidence (or lack of it) they give when pushing on. Please bare with me while and try and explain this.....

My S3 goes long periods (3/4 weeks) without being driven because of work commitments. After so long without driving it I find it takes me a good couple of hours to get "used" to driving it again. My daily driver is an F30 320d - drives and handles very different to my S3. The big issues IMO with the S3 are:-
  • The steering goes from light to heavy without warning at low speeds. I personally don't think its a gradual transition and therefore I find it slightly unnerving trying to drive sharp corners.
  • Steering is inaccurate and although the rack feels fast to me, it does not seem to turn as keenly as my steering input requires.
  • Medium / high speed damping is poor. It's quite difficult to drive the S3 in a spirited way I find on anything but perfectly surfaced roads where the car bounces around a bit too much (smacked my head on the headlining a few times). This does not inspire confidence to really enjoy the car.
About a month a go I had a chance to drive my work colleagues R up to Birmingham for a course (after much nagging). We have a blanket company insurance policy so no worries on that front. This R was a 5 door, DSG, standard dampers etc. My biggest surprise with the R was after about 15 minutes driving I felt very confident with all my inputs. I really enjoyed the drive! My thoughts after 110 miles on a mix of roads were as follows:-
  • Steering "feels" quicker and is more accurate in the R. In fast corners the steering input seem to correlate better with the bank of the turn. The front end turns in sharper and dare I say it I thought it felt easier to plant in general.
  • The steering is weighted far better - I left it in the "race" setting and was very consistent. It kept some heaviness at slow speeds which suits me much better.
  • Damping is streets better. Soaks up bumps very well and no issues at high speed. Around a few corners I felt more confident with a bit more throttle. Don't get that with my S3 - when I was giving it some beans in the R this was the big noticeable difference.
So overall the R is sharper in my opinion and that allows a lot more confidence to push on. Steering and damping is what makes it so different. I might be totally wrong of course but they are my honest thoughts - would love to hear of other people's experiences of the two to see if they were similar to mine.

Finally some other interesting R observations:
  • Touch screen system is cumbersome and not great to use.
  • The "soundaktor" thing sounds much more fake in the R. S3 sounds more natural IMO.
  • Lots of shiny cheap plastics and rubbers.
  • The seats are not as good
I'll get my coat :undwech:
Click to expand...

That's a fair report and my drive in an R made me feel the same. I've had eight Golfs of one sort or another over the years. Not all have been inspiring but I picked an S3 as an overall better package. But then I'm an old fart and whilst I do drive in a spirited way (sometimes) I'm not inclined to get near the limit on public roads. So there are other things that for me over rode the better dynamics of a Golf R.
 
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veeeight said:
Good write up Pulp :)

I had to shout at the S3 suspension today.

I was in a situation where I had to make a quick swerve around a dozy pillock, and was aware of a X5 breathing down my neck. So no time for hesitation.

At the same moment I swerved back to get back into the correct lane, the car hit a small bump/compression, and it nearly pitched/threw me into the path of the X5. Wheels definitely lost contact with the ground.

The S3 is not good in these situations, albeit they are challenging for any car. But the dampers are definitely poo for fast road work.

And listening out of the window to the Golf R exhaust, it's definitely louder/deeper in Race Mode than S3 in Dynamic mode.
Click to expand...

Cheers :)

veeeight - do you find at speed on poor roads with the bouncing around and light steering the car can be ever so slightly hard to control? Basically keeping it in a straight line.

Might be just my poor driving skills but it is unnerving to me!
 
Pulp84 said:
Cheers :)

veeeight - do you find at speed on poor roads with the bouncing around and light steering the car has can be ever so slightly hard to control? Basically keeping it in a straight line.

Might be just my **** driving skills but it is unnerving to me!
Click to expand...


Yes that's it exactly.

At speed, the car can pitch unpredictably, especially if you've got some steering input wound in.

Because of the lack of true feel/feedback, you've got no idea where the wheels are pointing, so you end up just holding the steering lightly to eek out any feedback you can, and waiting for things to settle suspension wise, so that you can then guide the car back to your intended course ;)

It's a slightly more accurate and refined version of driving a S II Land Rover ;)



Other forum members have also reported this:
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/feedback-from-those-with-s3s-now.203206/page-14#post-2159666
 
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My best mate has a Golf R and I have driven it several times. It is slightly better on the limit but we both think that the S3 has a much better ride (his does have the 19" wheels though so that is probably the reason). In terms of day to day living the S3 takes it by quite some bit IMO. That touch screen is not great to use on the move at all compared to the Audi MMI system (it's the same on my gf's mum's TDi GT. Quite clumsy unless the road is ultra smooth). The interior quality on the S3 is miles better too, his is rattling quite a bit in some places whereas my car (with very similar mileage of 8.5k) is silent. I found the fact that a similar spec R (to the car I ordered with leather seats sat nav and upgraded sounds) is less than £1k cheaper to be a bit pricey for a car that just doesn't have the same quality to it.

Best way to describe both cars - Golf R for a thrash/track, S3 for every day.

Oh and as for "drivers car" - none of them are. Both have too little feel and are no where near sharp enough to be considered a drivers car. In this sector the M135i or Megane RS are the cars for that (but both have problems in terms of quality and design IMO). In terms of hot hatch I think the S3 and Golf R are very, very similar. They do the job of managing to be a decent fast car that can be fun to drive while still having the flexibility to be used in every day life. It all comes down to which one you prefer personally.
 
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Great write up Pulp :thumbs up:

Wondering whether the mag ride on the saloon would make any difference to the ride inadequesies :think:

Also wondering whether the 'progressive steering' that Audi fit to the S3's is causing the steering issues :think:

But like steeve, I'm & old fart too so my priorities lie elsewhere :thumbs up:

In my previous occupation, which I am now retired from, I must have had in excess of 12 months (in total) of advanced driver training and assessments. So when the 'need' takes me I have a few certain roads where my cars are 'given it' lol
 
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Pulp84 said:
Cheers :)

veeeight - do you find at speed on poor roads with the bouncing around and light steering the car can be ever so slightly hard to control? Basically keeping it in a straight line.

Might be just my poor driving skills but it is unnerving to me!
Click to expand...

Bristle Hound said:
Great write up Pulp :thumbs up:

Wondering whether the mag ride on the saloon would make any difference to the ride inadequesies :think:

Also wondering whether the 'progressive steering' that Audi fit to the S3's is causing the steering issues :think:

But like steeve, I'm & old fart too so my priorities lie elsewhere :thumbs up:

In my previous occupation, which I am now retired from, I must have had in excess of 12 months (in total) of advanced driver training and assessments. So when the 'need' takes me I have a few certain roads where my cars are 'given it' lol
Click to expand...

I do wonder what mag ride would add to the S3 in fast road situations compared to the R. Interestingly the R I drove was on normal springs / dampers. The R is just set up better I feel.

I have observed before that most of the R press cars have adaptive dampers and you do wonder if that does make a difference too (albeit the R system is not a mag ride system like in the S3 I understand).

A lot of S3 reviews note the steering as being a weak link and I have to agree after driving both.

Totally agree with other comments regarding the R on its perspective ownership package - the S3 wins hands down for me and that's why it's sat on my drive :)
 
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It may not be perfect in all driving conditions but if I had to choose between the 2 of them tomorrow I'd 100% go for the S3 Saloon again. Not a single bit of doubt.
 
To put a slightly different spin on it, why can't we have it all? Why can't VAG make the S3 as dynamically good as the R, and charge a few more quid for the enhanced quality (like they do anyway). Why? Or is it deliberate to avoid the S3 killing hot Golf sales?
 
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