15Degrees
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I should add here that my mate who builds and maps Cozzies recommends retaining the original air box! Why? because They spent 30 million developing it and it works!
15Degrees-North S3 turbo Race Car build
- Thread starter 15Degrees
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Just read a few pages of this and love the build then I pressed page 1 and read that you are iceman. .....I followed your thread on cs for quite a while and again you have a pretty epic build going
grchmason
Registered User
I'm sure that works with Cosworths but your barking up the wrong tree here mate!!!!
So much so that it can even cause misfires, Would love to know who this Cossie man is who you talk about ?
As I know most of them in the scene!
.
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s3_trev
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The problem with the S3 intake isn't so much the air box as the restrictive kinks and bends plus the small and restrictive filter box.
It does limit air flow above 330bhp and does then cause misfires and I can vouch for that.
It does limit air flow above 330bhp and does then cause misfires and I can vouch for that.
Compkiler
Registered User
I noticed an instant increase in power and performance when changing over to my Revo Intake! ? Must be something in that....
15Degrees
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I don't doubt that you see an improvement when changing the standard box on an A3/S3/Golf road car etc as I have heard that on these cars the original is quite restrictive. I never said you wouldn't although I have no experience in that area with road cars.
I was asked why choose the Carbonio and was trying to point out that the difference between all the high end units especially on a race car application is negligible to be honest.I can put any of those top units on my car and take it to the mappers and get my 270 at the wheels with the same or very similar torque curve. Been there and done it in back to back tests.
It's a very subjective area without real track data to be honest so that's what i also tried. When I had the Clio 182 (as Iceman on CS) and before I went bodies I tried no less than 5 different induction systems on it. I was obsessed with power figures at the time because I was new to racing and I didn't understand it (at all) 5 on the same day including the ITG at £300 and the best times I set were with the second from cheapest one! and all of them were within 2 tenths so negligible at best
as results go. It could be argued it was just my driving and the changing ambient conditions over the whole day. Essentially they were all the same although they all sounded and looked different.
On the Audi I have tried 4 different systems (Modded Air Box, Massive K&N, ITG, Pipercross) now and they all give slightly different figures on the Hub dyno and I mean slightly but again on track negligable results between them. 2 tenths at most and that not repeatable either.
So now I buy the one I like the look of. I keep the pipework as straight as humanly possible, make sure it's getting fresh air and has a very good filter in it. I then wrap the pipes and move onto the important stuff that really does make me faster and believe it or not that's not turbos, engine mods or induction it's
Suspension
Geometry
Diffs (definitely diffs)
Brakes
Tyres
Weight and its distribution
Bushes
Stiffer cage
Better driving Ahemm
I always need that..Remember in this thread I am only ever talking race car experience. I have NO idea what these cars are like on the road, how they feel, what works, what does not work. It's a different experience.
PS
I have ruined one set of pistons by using a K&N mounted to low down at the front. I Took a trip through the kitty litter and sucked grit and crap into the engine and scored my pistons with it! Not happy. So now I tend to look for better quality filters even when they look more restrictive and mount them higher up.
15Degrees
Registered User
Small update.
New engine arrives Saturday so ll start updating with the new build and pictures etc. All the custom stuff is gone or going now. This engine is a standard 2.0 tfsi BWA unit out of a Golf I think. Looking forwards to stripping it and building it back up again
New engine arrives Saturday so ll start updating with the new build and pictures etc. All the custom stuff is gone or going now. This engine is a standard 2.0 tfsi BWA unit out of a Golf I think. Looking forwards to stripping it and building it back up again
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....
So now I buy the one I like the look of. I keep the pipework as straight as humanly possible, make sure it's getting fresh air and has a very good filter in it. I then wrap the pipes and move onto the important stuff that really does make me faster and believe it or not that's not turbos, engine mods or induction it's
Suspension
Geometry
Diffs (definitely diffs)
Brakes
Tyres
Weight and its distribution
Bushes
Stiffer cage
Better driving Ahemm
Remember in this thread I am only ever talking race car experience. I have NO idea what these cars are like on the road, how they feel, what works, what does not work. It's a different experience.
PS
I have ruined one set of pistons by using a K&N mounted to low down at the front. I Took a trip through the kitty litter and sucked grit and **** into the engine and scored my pistons with it! Not happy. So now I tend to look for better quality filters even when they look more restrictive and mount them higher up.
I think that's pretty much how I'd feel too for priorities.....I think a lot of people simply look for the biggest figures they can get,without thinking of,or worrying about,how they're going to get the extra bhp onto the road.
You already know how much faster you can go with a lower powered car,and better brakes and suspension than a car with more power,and rubbish suspension etc.
On the intake subject,I used to have one of the old style Forge intakes where the filter was mounted in the left side of the bumper,low down,and that always made me feel very nervous in seriously wet conditions.
I had the suspension done on mine very early on,before Stg2+,and followed that up with brakes etc soon after.
Better driving...yes.......definitely.
The older I get,the faster I was.
I don't doubt that you see an improvement when changing the standard box on an A3/S3/Golf road car etc as I have heard that on these cars the original is quite restrictive. I never said you wouldn't although I have no experience in that area with road cars.
I was asked why choose the Carbonio and was trying to point out that the difference between all the high end units especially on a race car application is negligible to be honest.I can put any of those top units on my car and take it to the mappers and get my 270 at the wheels with the same or very similar torque curve. Been there and done it in back to back tests.
It's a very subjective area without real track data to be honest so that's what i also tried. When I had the Clio 182 (as Iceman on CS) and before I went bodies I tried no less than 5 different induction systems on it. I was obsessed with power figures at the time because I was new to racing and I didn't understand it (at all) 5 on the same day including the ITG at £300 and the best times I set were with the second from cheapest one! and all of them were within 2 tenths so negligible at best
as results go. It could be argued it was just my driving and the changing ambient conditions over the whole day. Essentially they were all the same although they all sounded and looked different.
On the Audi I have tried 4 different systems (Modded Air Box, Massive K&N, ITG, Pipercross) now and they all give slightly different figures on the Hub dyno and I mean slightly but again on track negligable results between them. 2 tenths at most and that not repeatable either.
So now I buy the one I like the look of. I keep the pipework as straight as humanly possible, make sure it's getting fresh air and has a very good filter in it. I then wrap the pipes and move onto the important stuff that really does make me faster and believe it or not that's not turbos, engine mods or induction it's
Suspension
Geometry
Diffs (definitely diffs)
Brakes
Tyres
Weight and its distribution
Bushes
Stiffer cage
Better driving Ahemm
Remember in this thread I am only ever talking race car experience. I have NO idea what these cars are like on the road, how they feel, what works, what does not work. It's a different experience.
PS
I have ruined one set of pistons by using a K&N mounted to low down at the front. I Took a trip through the kitty litter and sucked grit and **** into the engine and scored my pistons with it! Not happy. So now I tend to look for better quality filters even when they look more restrictive and mount them higher up.
Great response !
Fabulous thread, OP. Great reading.
Out of interest: if you're required to use a stock turbo for the race series then how is the AET hybrid K04 permitted? Genuine question.
Best of luck with the new build! I had an AET hybrid on my previous motor and it never missed a beat!
Out of interest: if you're required to use a stock turbo for the race series then how is the AET hybrid K04 permitted? Genuine question.
Best of luck with the new build! I had an AET hybrid on my previous motor and it never missed a beat!
s3_trev
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I wish I had some pics left of the original airbox on my Cosworth,but as said above,it was actually a decent design,and nowhere near as restrictive as our grand design on the S3,as it had a large capacity airbox,and a very large panel filter,by comparison.
15Degrees
Registered User
Oooo me engine has arrived. 7000 miler CDL Block 2.0TFSI.
Strip that this Saturday then and get ordering parts
Strip that this Saturday then and get ordering parts
15Degrees
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15Degrees
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For your purposes,you should drop Rick @ Unicorn a PM.
15Degrees
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Spoke to him. he so going to map it and has already had his hands on the standard ECU to delete the immobilizer.
Pics this weekend as tons of stuff has turned up and I'm halfway through engine build again. I went all CTS turbo stuff this time with VWR induction and a THS intercooler.
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15Degrees
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15Degrees
Registered User
VWR induction ->
Ah just read your thread re the back pipe MAF sensor. what exactly was the issue and the mod done to rectify? Ill then look at mine on Saturday.
15Degrees
Registered User
So the rebuild begins
This is one of the pistons out of my donor engine. As you can see it is immaculate! I would say less than 5000 miles looking at that bearing! Excellent!
The block came back from the shop and after I cleaned it for a couple of hours to make sure there was no grit in the bores I started of with ring gaps. Nicely in tolerance too.
Next in goes the crank. This was just polished.
bearings first with lots of gunk
Then drop in the clean crank
And now lets plastiguage it up to make sure it's ok.
Nice spread and again in tolerance
Rods fitted to my nice clean and re ringed pistons. I went for OEM rings and retained the standard pistons as they are like new.
lets get them in the block then
Ok now thats done ill put the oil pump back on
This is one of the pistons out of my donor engine. As you can see it is immaculate! I would say less than 5000 miles looking at that bearing! Excellent!
The block came back from the shop and after I cleaned it for a couple of hours to make sure there was no grit in the bores I started of with ring gaps. Nicely in tolerance too.
Next in goes the crank. This was just polished.
bearings first with lots of gunk
Then drop in the clean crank
And now lets plastiguage it up to make sure it's ok.
Nice spread and again in tolerance
Rods fitted to my nice clean and re ringed pistons. I went for OEM rings and retained the standard pistons as they are like new.
lets get them in the block then
Ok now thats done ill put the oil pump back on
15Degrees
Registered User
All in and tourqued up
Ok now thats done ill put the oil pump back on
I dont like doing the oil pump bolts as i always feel they are gonna snap on the 90 degree part. They were ok though.
head on next after cleaning it for 2 hours!
Ok heads on and tourqued down correctly with ARP bolts again same as the bottom end.
Ok now thats done ill put the oil pump back on
I dont like doing the oil pump bolts as i always feel they are gonna snap on the 90 degree part. They were ok though.
head on next after cleaning it for 2 hours!
Ok heads on and tourqued down correctly with ARP bolts again same as the bottom end.
15Degrees
Registered User
It is at this point in an engine build where I look at that and say to myself. " Did I check the rings were all top up!!!!" I have before at this point taken them all out to check and so now as I put them in I mark on a piece of paper that I did indeed check each one I do the same for each bolt tourque and also that the rods match on the writing. This saves a LOT of consertnation when you put the sump on believe me!
I was gonna do cams next but switched to a couple of easier parts So oil filter on now. As you can see this is an IE plate with a 1.8t housing. This is so i can run my oil cooler.
As I dont run a thermo I am using an old housing and not the CDL one. I dont need the after run pump as I run a Davies Craig and leave that running when I come into the pits.
Crank sensor fitted, new one
Now lets fit the cams. Plenty of gunk again
See the two blue tie wraps? These tell me my pistons are well away from my valves
I dry fit the cams first
Then spend an hour cleaning all the gasket out of this before fitting it with new sealer in the grooves
And then fit the cams again and check my tool fits
Ok thats it. 30 hours work right there More this weekend, but home stretch now as its all ancilliarys once you have this bit done.
I do the same for each bolt tourque and also that the rods match on the writing. This saves a LOT of consertnation when you put the sump on believe me!I was gonna do cams next but switched to a couple of easier parts
So oil filter on now. As you can see this is an IE plate with a 1.8t housing. This is so i can run my oil cooler.
As I dont run a thermo I am using an old housing and not the CDL one. I dont need the after run pump as I run a Davies Craig and leave that running when I come into the pits.
Crank sensor fitted, new one
Now lets fit the cams. Plenty of gunk again
See the two blue tie wraps? These tell me my pistons are well away from my valves
I dry fit the cams first
Then spend an hour cleaning all the gasket out of this before fitting it with new sealer in the grooves
And then fit the cams again and check my tool fits
Ok thats it. 30 hours work right there
More this weekend, but home stretch now as its all ancilliarys once you have this bit done.
15Degrees
Registered User
On the home stretch now with the engine. Timing it up with an OE belt. I prefer these to dayco belts, they just look more robust!
Next I cleaned up the inlet manifold (not the best looking mani I have ever seen LOL) and fitted the APR flap delete kit.
So lets fit my new Turbo then. AET have machined a very nice 36mm restrictor for me to meet the tech regs. I am using a front mounted BOV straight to atmosphere.
This is my restrictor and you can also see I have blanked off the inlets from the cam cover. I shall fit rubber bungs to all the ports on the cover itself. I must say this is by far the easiest turbo I have ever fitted Nice design.
A pic of the wastegate control valve and uprated wastegate
Next I started on fitting the inlet manifold. I am going to delete that vac hose going to the top of the cover and also the vaccuum pump system. The one going to the top and also round the side goes off to your carbon catch can which of course I don't have and as I also don't have a brake servo I don't really need a vac pump either.
I have cut down and welded a JIC6 fitting onto the low pressure fuel line. This is so I can use braided hose and not push on fittings.
I think we can lose most of this vac stuff here. Ill keep the pump in place of course.
Now onto fitting the sump. I claned the sump up that came with this engine (another 2 hours) only to find it had a very small crack in it dohhhhh. So then I cleaned my old sump up, another 2 hours and fitted that. This is the correct anount of sealant with a bias towards the outer edge. Trust me even with just that small thin 2mm bead it will give a nice full spread when torqued down but you won't end up with tons of sealant inside the sump breaking off and clogging your oil pickup pipe.
So this weekend will hopefully see the engine finished off. Its howm stretch now. I can then start fitting it into the car. We have already fitted a new subframe with an electric rack and new VT race mounts with the metal Dogbone bushes. So much to do! Oh yes I ordered the super pro wishbones today so I will get those on this weekend too. Should make the whole front end turn in better.
Need to decide on the new dash. AIM MXG or Racetech Dash2 Pro hmmmm decisions decisions. Both do the same thing but one costs twice as much as the other one!!
Next I cleaned up the inlet manifold (not the best looking mani I have ever seen LOL) and fitted the APR flap delete kit.
So lets fit my new Turbo then. AET have machined a very nice 36mm restrictor for me to meet the tech regs. I am using a front mounted BOV straight to atmosphere.
This is my restrictor and you can also see I have blanked off the inlets from the cam cover. I shall fit rubber bungs to all the ports on the cover itself. I must say this is by far the easiest turbo I have ever fitted
Nice design.
A pic of the wastegate control valve and uprated wastegate
Next I started on fitting the inlet manifold. I am going to delete that vac hose going to the top of the cover and also the vaccuum pump system. The one going to the top and also round the side goes off to your carbon catch can which of course I don't have and as I also don't have a brake servo I don't really need a vac pump either.
I have cut down and welded a JIC6 fitting onto the low pressure fuel line. This is so I can use braided hose and not push on fittings.
I think we can lose most of this vac stuff here. Ill keep the pump in place of course.
Now onto fitting the sump. I claned the sump up that came with this engine (another 2 hours) only to find it had a very small crack in it dohhhhh. So then I cleaned my old sump up, another 2 hours and fitted that. This is the correct anount of sealant with a bias towards the outer edge. Trust me even with just that small thin 2mm bead it will give a nice full spread when torqued down but you won't end up with tons of sealant inside the sump breaking off and clogging your oil pickup pipe.
So this weekend will hopefully see the engine finished off. Its howm stretch now. I can then start fitting it into the car. We have already fitted a new subframe with an electric rack and new VT race mounts with the metal Dogbone bushes. So much to do! Oh yes I ordered the super pro wishbones today so I will get those on this weekend too. Should make the whole front end turn in better.
Need to decide on the new dash. AIM MXG or Racetech Dash2 Pro hmmmm decisions decisions. Both do the same thing but one costs twice as much as the other one!!
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15Degrees
Registered User
I think you're the only one that reads it Alex LOL.
Yeah they did a great job on the restricter didn't they. I was really pleased. Do you know how the electric rack works? Does it sense when you move it and then give you assist and its as simple as that so long as it's powered up? It has a couple of plugs on it that go off to the ecu I guess at some point but Im thinking they might be for angle
Trust me...he's not the only one.
15Degrees
Registered User
Trust me...he's not the only one.
Ill keep at it then
when no one reply's it makes you think no ones interested in what you're doing.
15Degrees
Registered User
True. The AIM MXG is gorgeous but I can't find anywhere if it shows the delta. The lap time is fine but I need to know if i was faster or slower and by how much. My old AIM Strada did not show that.
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I'd be Ok with that obviously as it's only a road car,but I can see you'd need something more useful and track related.
I'm just waiting to get all of the exhaust manifold and turbo parts put together for the next build before I think of dash kits,and then there's the possibility of a new ECU to contend with.
15Degrees
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New ECU? There are only a couple that handle direct injection and they cost mega $$$$ the MOTEC M1 is over 5 grand! Unless you just run an ally mani and have port injection only?
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I know of something in development at the moment,which will run direct injection and can run port injection as well.
It's not cheap,but has such a number of other features I could use that it's looking very attractive.
It's not cheap,but has such a number of other features I could use that it's looking very attractive.
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Great thread... I used to own a feisty Escort Cosworth so can appreciate all the DIY and spannering.
You clearly have a great love for this, will keep an eye on this
Good man....so did I.
Ex GpN Escort Cosworth....miss it a bit,but not too much now.
15Degrees
Registered User
Ill check that out Alex although at the moment I only need a standard ECU now.
