2.0T Oil issue engine repair cost
- Thread starter Crazyfool
- Start date
Thanks for that. I've actually been looking at a new a5 sportback and the options are 2.0 tdi and the 225hp petrol. Would prefer the petrol as I'm coming from a focus St estate but the nets loaded with horror stories regarding oil and piston rings etc
brasiliangringo
Registered User
VAG has some of the highest engine fault rates (and other Germans) i think 1 in 30 odd versus 1 in 200+ but look at the survey results.
I'll vouch for that. I definitely fall into the 1:30 bracket and that's not just for the engine!
Tankman
Registered User
My dad was 78 when he bought his 2.0TFSi quattro SE. That was 5 years ago. Two years ago, he swapped it for a diesel Touran as it was easier for him to get in and out of. I was with him when the dealer told him the trade value of his car with just 22,500 miles on the clock. So I bought it and sold my B7 3.0TDi S Line with 100K on the clock.
Just after my 1 year extended warranty ran out and at about 62,000 miles, I started getting less than 500 miles to a litre of oil. Having read the threads on here and other forums, went in to Leicester Audi armed with the information of it being a known issue. The car was originally purchased and always serviced with them. The response I have had has been a model example of how to deal with a problem and keep the customer satisfied. Courtesy cars on every occasion, with a little planning on my part to ensure availability. Good communication and excellent customer service on every occasion. Suffice to say, I had the 70% AUK and 30% Dealer goodwill contribution and am exceptionally happy with the car and Leicester Audi.
I have one fly in the ointment, after about 8000 miles from the engine rebuild with near zero oil consumption, the car developed a fault. Upon diagnosis at Leicester, injector number 3 had failed. Not wishing to take any chances, I have had all 4 injectors replaced with the thought in mind that oil in the combustion chamber may have been a contributory factor. As I understand it, injectors should be good for in excess of 100,000 miles easily.
Question: Am I correct in my non-technical mind that excessive oil in the combustion chamber during compression could contribute to early injector failure?
I hope to be sending the faulty part back to Audi with a letter once I have exact technical information that could bolster the argument and increase the chances of some more goodwill. Albeit that they are pretty slim chances anyway.
Just after my 1 year extended warranty ran out and at about 62,000 miles, I started getting less than 500 miles to a litre of oil. Having read the threads on here and other forums, went in to Leicester Audi armed with the information of it being a known issue. The car was originally purchased and always serviced with them. The response I have had has been a model example of how to deal with a problem and keep the customer satisfied. Courtesy cars on every occasion, with a little planning on my part to ensure availability. Good communication and excellent customer service on every occasion. Suffice to say, I had the 70% AUK and 30% Dealer goodwill contribution and am exceptionally happy with the car and Leicester Audi.
I have one fly in the ointment, after about 8000 miles from the engine rebuild with near zero oil consumption, the car developed a fault. Upon diagnosis at Leicester, injector number 3 had failed. Not wishing to take any chances, I have had all 4 injectors replaced with the thought in mind that oil in the combustion chamber may have been a contributory factor. As I understand it, injectors should be good for in excess of 100,000 miles easily.
Question: Am I correct in my non-technical mind that excessive oil in the combustion chamber during compression could contribute to early injector failure?
I hope to be sending the faulty part back to Audi with a letter once I have exact technical information that could bolster the argument and increase the chances of some more goodwill. Albeit that they are pretty slim chances anyway.
You would have to trust Audi UK to send that injector to someone to carry out a full failure analysis on it, ie what went wrong etc. I'd suspect that the failure would be internal and electrical and so could not be said to be related in any way to your engine failure - but, if you don't try you will not get any compensation!
I'm sure that others might have a different view on this, if you take on getting a full failure analysis investigation carried out on that injector - and that will probably involve slicing it open and well as X-raying it, Audi might shrug their shoulders as you have destroyed the injector.
I'm sure that others might have a different view on this, if you take on getting a full failure analysis investigation carried out on that injector - and that will probably involve slicing it open and well as X-raying it, Audi might shrug their shoulders as you have destroyed the injector.
My car contracted an issue diagnosed by the AA as being one of the coils. The car wouldn't restart after the part was replaced so I had to be recalled home which was a major palaver for me late on a Sunday night. Needless to say the following day I was very tired and upset!
The garage diagnosed it straight away as being the spark plugs because they knew the oil issue caused them to silt up leading to misfiring. That morning Audi UK called me and I went absolutely ballistic. Needless to say they replaced all the plugs for free but got their money back from me on the engine rebuild.
The garage diagnosed it straight away as being the spark plugs because they knew the oil issue caused them to silt up leading to misfiring. That morning Audi UK called me and I went absolutely ballistic. Needless to say they replaced all the plugs for free but got their money back from me on the engine rebuild.
Tankman
Registered User
Had a quick chat with my local indie VAG, there doesn't seem to be any point following up on the faulty part. He didn't think it would be down to increased oil levels during combustion. All things considered, will be taking that one on the chin but still really pleased as it feels like a new engine.
Well boys looks like I am about to join your club.
2.0TFSI with chronic consumption, currently running at 400miles/litre.
Started with a mate who is a technician in an Audi dealer, he told me about the run around about to come up. Consumption test, PCV valves, oil seals, all of which 90% of the time lead to a piston and ring change. Known issue effecting all 2.0 and 1.8 engines circa 2010 across the A4/A6/A5 and some of the Q ranges. And yes, Audi UK will try and 'F' you by trying to back out unless you have 120% pure Audi allegiance (ie buy through them, service through them etc) even then they try to only pay parts, claiming labour is down to goodwill of the dealer branch.
I phone Audi UK to see if, now this problem is so well known, they are 'fessing' up and footing the bill like an honest premium brand would do (like BMW did a few years back with their engines)...................yeh not a bit of it. They peddled the same parts costs only line and they will now raise a case file for me.(Which probably means my car is black listed across the dealer network with "DO NOT TRADE IN")
I am now waiting for the service manager of the local dealer to call back and give me his forecast on how this will unravel.........................and he has just called.........................
So he forecasts £100 - £350 of my money lost on step 1 Consumption test, PCV valve, oil seals and SW update if needed. 2. If fails consumption test a bottom end rebuild £2k parts, £3k labour (20hrs). Audi UK possibly cover parts, rarely cover labour.
We have had 5 Audis in the last decade, no problems until the last two. 1st Problem car an A3 where Dealer fitted belt a tooth out for previous owner. I inherited the 'F' up and Audi would resolve nothing. 2nd Problem car this A4 piece of Sh**t. I fear the days of them providing innovative quality products finished a few years ago.
2.0TFSI with chronic consumption, currently running at 400miles/litre.
Started with a mate who is a technician in an Audi dealer, he told me about the run around about to come up. Consumption test, PCV valves, oil seals, all of which 90% of the time lead to a piston and ring change. Known issue effecting all 2.0 and 1.8 engines circa 2010 across the A4/A6/A5 and some of the Q ranges. And yes, Audi UK will try and 'F' you by trying to back out unless you have 120% pure Audi allegiance (ie buy through them, service through them etc) even then they try to only pay parts, claiming labour is down to goodwill of the dealer branch.
I phone Audi UK to see if, now this problem is so well known, they are 'fessing' up and footing the bill like an honest premium brand would do (like BMW did a few years back with their engines)...................yeh not a bit of it. They peddled the same parts costs only line and they will now raise a case file for me.(Which probably means my car is black listed across the dealer network with "DO NOT TRADE IN")
I am now waiting for the service manager of the local dealer to call back and give me his forecast on how this will unravel.........................and he has just called.........................
So he forecasts £100 - £350 of my money lost on step 1 Consumption test, PCV valve, oil seals and SW update if needed. 2. If fails consumption test a bottom end rebuild £2k parts, £3k labour (20hrs). Audi UK possibly cover parts, rarely cover labour.
We have had 5 Audis in the last decade, no problems until the last two. 1st Problem car an A3 where Dealer fitted belt a tooth out for previous owner. I inherited the 'F' up and Audi would resolve nothing. 2nd Problem car this A4 piece of Sh**t. I fear the days of them providing innovative quality products finished a few years ago.
It's really disappointing isn't it. I'm on my second bad egg and now looking at other manufacturers.
For most of us, there in lies the problem, where to jump to without going "frying pan into fire" I personally do not have any issues (yet) so I'm quite happy with Audi and it does seem that when talking to others German car owners and the indies that support these brands, that when you group M-B, BMW and Audi, Audi is still ahead of the others when decreasing quality and reliability is compared. Cold comfort in your case though!
Without a shadow of a doubt I think Audis are the best looking, have the nicest interior and for me the Quattro system is a bonus; but can I really face the excessive costs.
Your right though, am I going to regret going for something else.
Your right though, am I going to regret going for something else.
As quickly as this thread has been revived, I have a new problem with my car. I picked up the car early August after having the pistons, rings, con-rods etc changed to solve the oil consumption problem. The technician who completed the work gave me a bottle of coolant which I thought was strange, I remember saying at the time 'shouldn't that be a bottle of oil' as I knew the consumption would continue for a short while as the engine was bedding in. So in the last 15 weeks I've completed 1400 miles and the oil consumption has been almost non existent, happy days! But this morning a message appeared when I started the car saying 'STOP ENGINE AND CHECK COOLANT LEVEL'. Long and behold the coolant reservoir was almost empty. So that free bottle has come in handy after all! When I opened the lid the system was definitely pressurised so I can’t see there being a leak. I’m now waiting for the engine too cool down to check the oil to see if the gasket is gone.
Any ideas/suggestion welcome.
Any ideas/suggestion welcome.
I checked the oil and it's relatively clean as expected after 1400 miles. I took the car for a spin and the level hasn't dropped. I've been told that there may have been an air lock in the system??? Can anyone confirm this? There has been a sound of rushing water behind the dash on start up but it stops so quickly that I haven't really worried about it.
New member, 1st post, advice sought.....
I'm suffering with the well documented Oil consumption issues on the 2.0T. Car using approx. 1lt per 500 miles. Failed oil consumption test at Westside Audi and now in discussion/negotiation with Audi UK over goodwill.
Car is a 2010 A4 B8 2.0T Quattro Avant with 86k and has FASH, out of warranty, bought from independent dealer 18 months ago.
Initial quote for replacement pistons and con rods was £4385!. Dealer informed me that Audi had offered 70% goodwill on parts from the off, still leaving a bill of £2850!
After much discussion with Audi UK they have now agreed to reduce the total bill to £1500. It seems that the dealer are footing the rest of the bill, as I have been told that Audi Germany will not sanction more than 70% Goodwill on parts only, for any cars bought outside of network.
Has anyone else been told this? I've read through many threads on the issue, with some suggesting a larger contribution from Audi?
So, reason for my post, and apologies in advance for asking essentially the same question as Crazyfool's original post, just with a slight twist.
Has anyone successfully managed to get 100% of the bill covered by Audi UK and/or dealer, on a car out of warranty and bought out of the network, and if not, how much did you end up paying?
I'm suffering with the well documented Oil consumption issues on the 2.0T. Car using approx. 1lt per 500 miles. Failed oil consumption test at Westside Audi and now in discussion/negotiation with Audi UK over goodwill.
Car is a 2010 A4 B8 2.0T Quattro Avant with 86k and has FASH, out of warranty, bought from independent dealer 18 months ago.
Initial quote for replacement pistons and con rods was £4385!. Dealer informed me that Audi had offered 70% goodwill on parts from the off, still leaving a bill of £2850!
After much discussion with Audi UK they have now agreed to reduce the total bill to £1500. It seems that the dealer are footing the rest of the bill, as I have been told that Audi Germany will not sanction more than 70% Goodwill on parts only, for any cars bought outside of network.
Has anyone else been told this? I've read through many threads on the issue, with some suggesting a larger contribution from Audi?
So, reason for my post, and apologies in advance for asking essentially the same question as Crazyfool's original post, just with a slight twist.
Has anyone successfully managed to get 100% of the bill covered by Audi UK and/or dealer, on a car out of warranty and bought out of the network, and if not, how much did you end up paying?
I don't get how the total on parts comes to £9500 (2850/0.3); are Audi elevating the total cost so that your 30% contribution ends up paying the 'real' total cost?
And labours costing 4385 - 2850 = £1535 ?
I'm having new con-rods and piston rings fitted to my S3 (2001) by an independent garage, for the fun of it, and that is £1500 (parts + labour + vat) - that includes the cambelt and everything else.
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Whilst mine isn't a 2.0t I have a 1.8tfsi which I thought would not suffer from the same issues. How wrong was I !!!!
Just started the 627mile oil test as of yesterday and Audi are already telling me that if it fails it's new rings, rods etc and will be around 5k on my car which is a 2009 (59) with full Audi history and only 29k on the clock.
I still have until May left on my warranty (Audi used approved) and I am hoping and praying it will fail the test. I just don't want my warranty expiring and it getting worse.
Just started the 627mile oil test as of yesterday and Audi are already telling me that if it fails it's new rings, rods etc and will be around 5k on my car which is a 2009 (59) with full Audi history and only 29k on the clock.
I still have until May left on my warranty (Audi used approved) and I am hoping and praying it will fail the test. I just don't want my warranty expiring and it getting worse.
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70% off parts.
Most of the bill is in labour as its a total engine removal job.
It's the labour which make you wince on these.
I was going by the "Audi offered 70% good will on parts" which leaves 30% in parts outstanding at £2850 on parts
at the end of the day, irrespective of whether the cost be parts or labour, the quotes are extortionate! Yes I know dealers=stealers.... but really!? Wow
If I can have a con-rod and piston ring replacement and cambelt for £1500 and a head refurbishment with new valve stem seals and valve guides for £650 totalling just over 2K then Audi are pulling a fast one
And why is it an engine out job? take the head off and sump off and there you go - cyclinder hone; rod, piston and ring replacement can be done in situ? (genuine question)
at the end of the day, irrespective of whether the cost be parts or labour, the quotes are extortionate! Yes I know dealers=stealers.... but really!? Wow
If I can have a con-rod and piston ring replacement and cambelt for £1500 and a head refurbishment with new valve stem seals and valve guides for £650 totalling just over 2K then Audi are pulling a fast one
And why is it an engine out job? take the head off and sump off and there you go - cyclinder hone; rod, piston and ring replacement can be done in situ? (genuine question)
The guys that have had the entire cost recovered have either still got a warranty or bought the car and have it serviced by the same main dealer. The rest are either lucky or have a generous main dealer.
I heard rumours that the 1.8T suffered, but my garage told me it was just the 2.0T!
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They say it's and engine out job and looking at the videos on YouTube I can see why. It just makes it easier to get to the bottom end whilst stripping and rebuilding and makes it a one man job. I can imagine if you left the engine in and stripped the head and sump it would be up and down on the scissor lift like a whores draws and may make it a two man job.
Each to a mechanics own I suppose. I also need a new turbo and they look a cow to fit tucked at the back of the engine. May also make this a bit easier when the do the rest of the work.
the 70% is off parts only, I was told the dealer contribution will be 30% of the labour. I'm still trying to push for more - but not sure if I've got as far as I can with them at £1500 and should just agree to get it done?
I've been told its a full engine out job, requiring 21 hours labour!
I'm also trying to push Audi UK to agree to cover any potential additional costs, e.g if the dealer strips the engine down and then discovers the bores are scored - I don't want to be left with know choice but to commit to an additional £???? to get it repaired, once the car is in bits in their workshop. Frustratingly, no joy here yet either....
I've been told its a full engine out job, requiring 21 hours labour!
I'm also trying to push Audi UK to agree to cover any potential additional costs, e.g if the dealer strips the engine down and then discovers the bores are scored - I don't want to be left with know choice but to commit to an additional £???? to get it repaired, once the car is in bits in their workshop. Frustratingly, no joy here yet either....
Well my financial situation dictated I tried trading in this week. A reluctant decision, as passing on a problem like this to a trader is not particularly honourable......
The results so far
So back to the honourable route, get the damn thing repaired
I think Audi UK will have to act positively soon or will be forced too, as from the posts I see, the UK complaints are growing at an alarming rate, probably because (from my experience) these piston rings cannot hold out much past 60-80k miles and all these 2009-2011 cars are hitting that mileage around about...............
Now!
The results so far
- Largest Car Supermarket (Let you guess) - No longer taking petrol A4/A5/A6/Q5's
- We Buy Any Car - £5k offer for a 60k mile '10 plate A4 because of problems
- Then I went to a small trader to look at a replacement car (not an Audi) - he no longer trades in any petrol Audi A4/A5/A6/Q5's because he has 6 repair bills on his desk for this year for A4/A5/Q5's each having cost him £2k labour to repair. But he is offering any support he can provide to get dealer goodwill or raise a legal case, including getting evidence & documentation from other traders. Not sure I wish to go this route yet, we shall see.........
- From my discussions some are refusing to buy any petrol TFSI's irrespective of year of manufacture.
- Most petrol Audi models are black listed by trade buyers and becoming worth peanuts
- A very large number of traders and private owners have lost and are currently losing a lot of money
- This is now so well known it will soon start impacting new car sales unless some positive action is taken by Audi.
So back to the honourable route, get the damn thing repaired
- Audi 3k+ labour (22 hours book time at £120+/hr), £2k+ parts, much more £££££'s if block knackered. Plus messing around with consumption tests and PCV etc
- Audi Specialist £800+ labour, £2k+ parts
- Engine "Specialist" £2k+ fitted exchange engine where from what i can tell they have just done a piston ring swap.
I think Audi UK will have to act positively soon or will be forced too, as from the posts I see, the UK complaints are growing at an alarming rate, probably because (from my experience) these piston rings cannot hold out much past 60-80k miles and all these 2009-2011 cars are hitting that mileage around about...............
Now!
Get a specialist to use a borescope to inspect the cylinder walls before committing to an Audi rebuild. This way you will know before being committed.
Can anyone explain
If the fault with these oil burning engines is with the piston rings, why does Audi stipulate to their technicians that when rebuilding the engine the pistons and conrods must also be changed?
I have heard the new pistons have different part no's and have been modified from the originals. Were the pistons also at fault? What did they modify?
There are non Audi people out there solving this problem by simply swapping rings and standing by a 2 year warranty. Is a ring swap all that is necessary, if so it certainly makes a cheaper job, reducing the parts bill by £1200
Any ideas anyone?
If the fault with these oil burning engines is with the piston rings, why does Audi stipulate to their technicians that when rebuilding the engine the pistons and conrods must also be changed?
I have heard the new pistons have different part no's and have been modified from the originals. Were the pistons also at fault? What did they modify?
There are non Audi people out there solving this problem by simply swapping rings and standing by a 2 year warranty. Is a ring swap all that is necessary, if so it certainly makes a cheaper job, reducing the parts bill by £1200
Any ideas anyone?
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Zafi
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It may be a problem with the top of the conrod touching onto the piston, causing the piston to tilt, causing the oil consumption to increase.
I have seen this when mixing an aftermarket piston with an aftermarket rod, but would hope OEM parts would not have these issues.
I have seen this when mixing an aftermarket piston with an aftermarket rod, but would hope OEM parts would not have these issues.
Yes fully aware of this. With the number of issues raised by UK owners this year and from what I have heard from P'd off traders, I find it hard to understand why a similar group claim has not been raised in the UK.
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I have not seen the Audi piston/conrod combo on these engines but would find it hard to believe this was happening. I am guessing your description of 'Piston tilt' would probably cause the noise 'piston slap' (knocking noise under load basically caused by piston 'rattling' around in bore) I myself have yet to hear this.
An Audi techs guess was that pistons were originally too small, but I have yet to hear this confirmed or echoed by anyone.
The UK are just not claims mad like the UK. I'm surprised Audi/VW didn't put a counter claim in against the plaintiff for being an idiot and buying an Audi, just because it's America!
We need someone here to do the same.
WARNING THIS MIGHT BE BS IF SO SORRY!:-
I seem to remember reading that some/all of the oil consumption issues revolved round a "bad" piston design, ie one of the rings (oil control?) was too close to where the con rod (small end) bearing/pin was located. It is easy to think that this might be why fixing engine needs new pistons and con rods - though, as I said, this might be interweb BS.
Well lets see, its is becoming easier to pull multiple claimants together now as the volume of failures seems to be rising exponentially and Audi will be fuelling peoples desire to take the legal route as they push even more costs down to the owner with their 'out of warranty' defence.
Failing that it will just be resolved by a 'Watchdog' style programme who will turn it into a very large PR disaster for them. The likely problem is Watchdog is not receiving enough volume of complaints to warrant making a programme slot for it. I would imagine there are many reading this who have suffered this problem or are currently suffering that may still not have informed Watchdog.
Well it sounds like feasible BS, so don't worry ;-). It would be good if others could confirm this? Are there any anonymous Audi tech's out there that can contribute on this?
Some statistics that may interest you.
DVLA new registrations indicate 22000 1.8/2.0 Petrol variant TFSI A4/A5/Q5 models sold 2009-2011.
Assuming all these end up being excessive oil burners, and assuming a per unit repair bill of £2000 (a guess at labour and parts cost to Audi). That makes a total bill of £44m to do a recall and tidy the mess up properly.
I see from some sources that Audi US make around 10% profit per car. Assuming the same profit margin in the UK and an average A4/A5/Q5 car price of £30k, Audi would have to sell 14000 A4/A5/Q5 in the UK to cover the above costs of £44m. In 2014 they sold 22000 of these models (diesel&petrol).
Well it would make the accountant and shareholders wince but 8 months loss of profits on 3 models to solve a catastrophic manufacturing error and keep your 'premium brand' reputation does not sound too bad to me at all.
In my current situation it will take over 1 and a half years of family savings to cover the bill we are about to face.
DVLA new registrations indicate 22000 1.8/2.0 Petrol variant TFSI A4/A5/Q5 models sold 2009-2011.
Assuming all these end up being excessive oil burners, and assuming a per unit repair bill of £2000 (a guess at labour and parts cost to Audi). That makes a total bill of £44m to do a recall and tidy the mess up properly.
I see from some sources that Audi US make around 10% profit per car. Assuming the same profit margin in the UK and an average A4/A5/Q5 car price of £30k, Audi would have to sell 14000 A4/A5/Q5 in the UK to cover the above costs of £44m. In 2014 they sold 22000 of these models (diesel&petrol).
Well it would make the accountant and shareholders wince but 8 months loss of profits on 3 models to solve a catastrophic manufacturing error and keep your 'premium brand' reputation does not sound too bad to me at all.
In my current situation it will take over 1 and a half years of family savings to cover the bill we are about to face.
A friend of a friend is in employment law, so I'm going to stretch her knowledge to establish the best route. I've already e-mailed Audi asking for my money back.
A4B8Sline
Registered User
I'm happy to email watchdog about my issue (now repaired). If all of us on ASN who have reported the problem emailed in It might get noticed? I saw one about a year ago with BMW 1 series snapping their timing chains outside of warranty which I think bmw responded to the claimants.... Either way if I can get my £1800 back I will.
