Induction Kits

MaverickTDi

MaverickTDi

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I'm sure this has been discussed at great length but what's peoples thoughts on induction kits like the K&N 57i and Ramair?

I'm toying with the idea of getting one to complement a remap but this topic tends to be quite divided in opinion.

My car, as some may already know, is a 1.8 non-turbo (125bhp). Granted not a platform of pedigree but I'm hoping to find another 10-15bhp from somewhere along with improved torque.

Thoughts appreciated.

Thanks.
 
The stock airbox, and its filter, remains unchanged on the S4, and almost unchanged on the 380hp RS4, compared to your car...

So as above, its just a waste of money.

Remapping it is also probably a waste of time, your better sticking the money in a pot, and buying a 1.8T or a TDI once you've saved enough.

The money you'd spend on a remap, added to the money you'd get for your existing car, would likely comfortably buy you a 1.8T
 
aragorn said:
The stock airbox, and its filter, remains unchanged on the S4, and almost unchanged on the 380hp RS4, compared to your car...

So as above, its just a waste of money.

Remapping it is also probably a waste of time, your better sticking the money in a pot, and buying a 1.8T or a TDI once you've saved enough.

The money you'd spend on a remap, added to the money you'd get for your existing car, would likely comfortably buy you a 1.8T
Click to expand...


I hear what your saying mate. The circumstances in which I bought the car were very much 'need a car quick', so if I had time to look about etc I would have gone for a 1.8T or what I've owned in the past a TDI Avant.

Tuning the car I have does seem like I'm 'flogging a dead horse' but it's a car I'll be keeping for a while and at times I find the car dangerously slow. I hoping to squeeze a few more horses and torques, so for the cost of a remap against any potential gains does seem a little financially redundant but it's cheaper than buying a 1.8T or TDI. Plus I've already pumped a lot of money in to getting it running right so I've committed myself now.
 
A remap isnt going to stop it being dangerously slow.

Simple fact is that on an NA engine, theres little a remap can do. If your prepared to run super unleaded a bit of extra ignition timing might be possible, but thats about it. Modern engines are already pretty optimised, as its that optimisation that gives the good fuel economy etc.

Power comes from airflow, and you cant electronically add more air. Anything that increases airflow, will also increase power, even without a remap, as the car as a MAF, which detects the increased air, and adds the appropriate additional fuel.
 
That's why forced induction rules the World, turbos and superchargers .

I have heard of Mitsubishi 2.0 V6 FTO GPX MIVEC owners spend £1200 to achieve just 22 bhp .
 
aragorn said:
A remap isnt going to stop it being dangerously slow.

Simple fact is that on an NA engine, theres little a remap can do. If your prepared to run super unleaded a bit of extra ignition timing might be possible, but thats about it. Modern engines are already pretty optimised, as its that optimisation that gives the good fuel economy etc.

Power comes from airflow, and you cant electronically add more air. Anything that increases airflow, will also increase power, even without a remap, as the car as a MAF, which detects the increased air, and adds the appropriate additional fuel.
Click to expand...

My thinking was that if I could get another 5-10bhp plus some torque it would be that little quicker. I appreciate that whatever I do it's never going to turn it in to 'beast' but something a little quicker is the desired effect.

My local tuner confirmed today that he doesn't remap non-turbo Audi's as the gain is minimal. So I guess that's that?
 
Gazwould said:
That's why forced induction rules the World, turbos and superchargers .

I have heard of Mitsubishi 2.0 V6 FTO GPX MIVEC owners spend £1200 to achieve just 22 bhp .
Click to expand...

Indeed. I've built a Corrado 20vt and the power was great and tuneability was endless.

I understand that tuning an N/A isn't rewarding by comparison to a turbo/supercharged engine but I'm just trying to establish any known methods, through hardcore Audi owners, of squeezing a little more power out of my car.

As I expected, there isn't any significant options.
 
I can only think of Tim Styles Racing and it's 2.1 conversions , not cheap .

It's a dead duck .
 
However you look at it, to get 180 bhp like 1.8t in a tqs, out of a 1.8 N/A, you will spend double the amount you would pay for a decent tqs. You could always go for 2.8 as they are cheaper and 190 bhp.
 
Gazwould said:
I can only think of Tim Styles Racing and it's 2.1 conversions , not cheap .

It's a dead duck .
Click to expand...

I only bought the car for £850 so conversions, given there cost, isn't an option. As Aragorn said above, I should have started with the TQS or TDI if I wanted to tune.

I think your right!!
 
slepy said:
However you look at it, to get 180 bhp like 1.8t in a tqs, out of a 1.8 N/A, you will spend double the amount you would pay for a decent tqs. You could always go for 2.8 as they are cheaper and 190 bhp.
Click to expand...

Well I was never setting my sights on 180bhp from my car. I was aiming for around 130-135bhp. I understand to get TQS figures from my car would require deep pockets and quite frankly a rather large blow to the head! If that was my intention I would buy a TQS and work with that.

2.8, IMO is too heavy. I've owned a Mk3 VR6 and the handling was poor not to mention the silly running costs!
 
Exhaust manifold And system back. I put a induction out in my 1.8 although maf was the original it broke it. Probably better for a better flowing manifold as they are quite restrictive and a sports cat
 
AlexA4Avant said:
Exhaust manifold And system back. I put a induction out in my 1.8 although maf was the original it broke it. Probably better for a better flowing manifold as they are quite restrictive and a sports cat
Click to expand...

I think the general consensus is the induction kit is more for show than purpose. As for a manifold and exhaust system I think the cost measured against the gains isn't viable. My initial thought was to throw my local tuner £100-150 for a remap that under standard set up could eek another 5-10bhp. An exhaust system plus manifold would be around £300-400 at a guess? I've just recently fitted a new but standard downpipe;

86e996216ae77afb7b00e890c526878d.jpg


0c946393eeaccf45547b8f93a9f8f8a8.jpg


The old one, which was from manufacture, the flexi joint had completely perished and the car sounded very blowy. Since the replacement the car does seem a little more responsive but still lacks that punch. Almost like constant speed variable noise
 
Gazwould said:
Decat pipe is going to be the only bang for buck here.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing, but I've literally, 2 weeks ago, just fitted the new downpipe and I have no intentions on replacing to a decat.

I guess I was hoping for a 'quick win' in a few extra bhp but as it's becoming glaringly obvious I have the wrong engine and so I must live with what I have and just make do.
 
That new downpipe has a nasty compression bend in it :(

You could look at messing about with some bike throttle bodies and new inlet with appropriate management but it'll cost a fair wedge and not sure what sort of gains you might see, maybe 15-20bhp. I'm a born tinkerer and I would have to say in this case I would run it and save up for something with a better lump and then sell this one on to give you some spends on it's replacement
 
It will tune up like any other naturally aspirated engine.

Decent exhaust manifold (tubular 4-2-1 etc), sport cat, improved inlet, cams, headwork etc etc.

100hp per litre is usually fairly easy to achieve, however those real mechanical parts/modifications cost a lot of money compared with just remapping a turbo engine. It also has the side effect usually of pushing the power further up the rev range, which often means its not actually any quicker at the usual 2500-3500rpm range that your typically drive around in.

The only possible approach i can think of, is have a look to see if any OEM camshafts have more aggressive lift/duration compared to your existing ones. It wont be much but as an example years ago my brother had a 1.2i nova which left the factory with 45hp. We installed a camshaft from a GSi model, a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, decat and sport exhaust and a larger throttle body/inlet manifold from a 1.6 astra, and it made 65hp on the dyno and sounded ****** awesome. In that case the gains were so impressive because the factory 1.2i engine had a very restrictive camshaft (it would be the equivalent of your 1.8 producing only 67hp :p) so the GSi cam opened things up to where they should have been from new.

The advantage ofcourse being that if you find that say a 2.0 passat has more lift or duration, you can go pluck the cams from a scrapyard for next to nothing and drop them in.
 
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