Advanced key - easy theft

You would think that all the manufacturers would cotton onto this & make life a little harder the for the scum bags to steal the cars that they manufacture


The problem is that EU Directives have forced the manufacturers to share the security information with third party suppliers (so that you can get a spare key form Joe Bloggs Garage down the road) - thus once this information is in the public domain .......
 
Do you have a Push-Button start Car?!
Posted April 24, 2014

The police are reporting a massive increase in electronic car theft, particularly of high spec German cars and most commonly of those with a button start.


On the 8th June 2011, an EC Directive was issued that effectively made every car with a button start easier to steal.

The European Commission Regulation (EU) No 566/2011 compels all manufacturers to release security information to independent garages so they can work on any car unimpeded.

Virtually anyone with a laptop could access this information. Criminals can easily purchase a handheld OBDII reader online to download the security information from the ECU and start the car’s engine. Without a steering wheel lock or an electronic steering wheel lock, the car can then simply be driven away.
 
Do you have a Push-Button start Car?!
Posted April 24, 2014

The police are reporting a massive increase in electronic car theft, particularly of high spec German cars and most commonly of those with a button start.


On the 8th June 2011, an EC Directive was issued that effectively made every car with a button start easier to steal.

The European Commission Regulation (EU) No 566/2011 compels all manufacturers to release security information to independent garages so they can work on any car unimpeded.

Virtually anyone with a laptop could access this information. Criminals can easily purchase a handheld OBDII reader online to download the security information from the ECU and start the car’s engine. Without a steering wheel lock or an electronic steering wheel lock, the car can then simply be driven away.
The above makes pretty scary reading TBH V8 :eek:

All the more reason for a Disklok then ... :thumbs up:

No guarantee to it not getting nicked I now, but they may look for an easier 'target'. Bastids, I hate 'em! :keule:
 
Tired of reading the same old thing. Old news is old.
 
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I remember when cars could be knicked with a 50p screwdriver...
I remember when Mk3 Ford Cortina's could be stolen with a kitchen fork, seriously

You broke to the 2 outer prongs off then bent the inner two in and hey presto, not only would it open the door but it would also start the car too - crazy!
 
A
I remember when Mk3 Ford Cortina's could be stolen with a kitchen fork, seriously

You broke to the 2 outer prongs off then bent the inner two in and hey presto, not only would it open the door but it would also start the car too - crazy!
With the 'chubb' style of Ford key you could lock any ford car that had the same lock but not unlock it...
 
Well, those keys were initially susceptible to the tennis ball trick to unlock !
 
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The above makes pretty scary reading TBH V8 :eek:

All the more reason for a Disklok then ... :thumbs up:

No guarantee to it not getting nicked I now, but they may look for an easier 'target'. Bastids, I hate 'em! :keule:

People keep banging on about Disklok, what's to stop a competent thief breaking through that?
I'm pretty sure most locksmiths would know how to get through those given a few minutes.
 
The exact text from the EU directive is as follows:

"‘2. Manufacturers shall make available vehicle repair and maintenance information including transactional services such as reprogramming or technical assistance on an hourly, daily, monthly, and yearly basis, with fees for access to such information varying in accordance with the respective periods of time for which access is granted. In addition to time-based access, manufacturers may offer transaction-based access, for which fees are charged per transaction and not based on the time for which access is granted. Where both access systems are offered by manufacturers, independent repairers shall choose a preferred access system, either time-based or transaction-based.’;"

It doesn't require them to "open it up", it just requires them to offer (chargeable) services to independent garages, and they can limit the amount of time the service is valid for as well (or just charge for each request). There's a lot of nonsense in the articles that claim that the EU has required manufacturers to release all this information.
 
This is how it goes.

Initially, only authorised Audi dealerships were able to program RFID transponders, duplicate keys etc.

Since the EU Directive, the ability to do these tasks have now been made available on a chargeable and licensing basis to third party tool & equipment suppliers (eg: Sun, Snap-On etc.)

Almost all garages with MoT facilities now have a leased/franchised Sun/Snap-On/other diagnostic station - complete with all the facilities to re-program RFID transponders.

If, there were less than 100% honest people working in these garages (and I'm not suggesting that might be the case) - all of a sudden, this technology is now available to anyone wishing to slip someone a monkey.........
 
Right, and what's to stop the less than 100% honest people working at the Audi dealerships in the first place? Absolutely nothing!
 
Correct!

However, the EU Directive has widened the opportunity for less than 100% honest people being able to access the technology ;)
 
Indeed - but that doesn't translate to "It is more likely the details will be out there". It's only slightly more likely, but it only takes 1 person to release them. I think it has very little to do with the EU directive. Either way, there are still hoops to jump through, and it doesn't even make it that much easier overall than a car with a physical key - only that requires hotwiring!
 
Sounds as tho' we've got a few budding 'retro' car thieves on ASN lol :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
This thread worries me. I've opted for the advanced key on my build and am wondering if I should change to a standard key.
 
Why, if you acted upon everything you read in a forum then you'd never buy a car. My experiences with car thefts have been none with keyless and four with ordinary ....
 
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In spite of the bluff and bluster of the car makers regarding the impregnability of their keyless cars the thieves know that all that is needed for removal of many of the models is a laptop, a blank, some dark software and an automatic centre-punch.
 
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So, how many keyless cars and how many key cars have you owned cuke?
Since 2008 all my cars, but the point is that my key cars got stolen either for a joyride, to be used as transport for another job or for its alloy wheels. Having the additional security of keyless means that for the casual thief my car is less likely to be stolen. The majority of thefts are for that purpose, but, as they don't make headlines anymore, they aren't reported on and even the police do not bother with them.
 
This thread worries me. I've opted for the advanced key on my build and am wondering if I should change to a standard key.

How many cars now have keyless start and opening? Millions! I rly wouldn't worry if they want your car they will have it whether it's kicking your door down, reprogramming a key and not entering the house or carjacking you at knife point, me personally I'd rather have the advanced key so there's less chance of them attempting to come in my house! I'd rather wake up in the morning to see the car gone, rather than wake up to my wife or son been injured!
 
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Watchdog next Thursday 8pm: The team investigate the major security weakness that leaves hundreds of thousands of popular cars vulnerable to theft. Is your vehicle safe?
 
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My mate had his keyless entry Focus ST done over this way. Lucky they didn't steal car and only his Tom Tom and valuables. Police said it's very common these days. I would never buy a keyless/advanced entry car!!!!
The other method now used is that theives wait until you park up and 'intercept' and copy the signal sent by the key to lock the car as you walk away! There is some machine that copies the signal and then all they do is walk up to your car and it unlocks and off they go!!! Not something I know too much about but sounds frightfully easy if you have the right tools!
 
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But the Audi keyless doesn't lock the car as you just walk away, you can either lock it with the fob (therefor keyless or not, everyone is susceptible to this method of cloning) or you swipe the door handle with your finger to lock it (my chosen method)

This thread should be DEAD already.
 
Are we all supposed to applaud you and click the 'like' button for that?
 
My mate had his keyless entry Focus ST done over this way. Lucky they didn't steal car and only his Tom Tom and valuables. Police said it's very common these days. I would never buy a keyless/advanced entry car!!!!

This type of hack/theft requires the window to be smashed anyway to access the OBD port, so keyless entry either had nothing do to with it at all, or the Ford system is so bad that they could get in without access to the OBD port!
 
This whole thred has left me confused. No conclusion either way on keyless vs. Non keyless.
 
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No need to be confused. Whilst keyless and key cars can both be stolen the key gives the added protection of a mechanical lock.
A steering wheel lock will provide added security for keyless cars.
 
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Did those steering wheel locks prove useful back in the Sierra Cosworth days? :3sadwalk:

Seems like we've collectively taken a step backwards.
 
I believe the Disklok to be better than most.

Judge for yourself:

http://www.disklokuk.co.uk/about-us/awards-reviews/

I have no experience of them but at least you need a key to remove the car just as you do with a key car. With keyless you need nothing other than a laptop, a grabber, or an automatic centre punch and smart software plus blank.
 
I suppose my point was, is that if they want it enough they'll find a way to take it. Nothing against making it as difficult as possible, but doesn't it defeat the point of a keyless car if you have to carry a key anyway to get to the steering wheel?

Personally wouldn't go for the advanced key myself.
 
Yes, of course it does. However, having made the decision to go for keyless and then being appraised of information you may not have been aware of at the time of purchase it makes sense to protect your asset. What price peace of mind?
 

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