Jardo's 'Journey to quattro' - My Story...
- Thread starter 16Klappe
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Ahhh sorry to hear it, I'd have love to have seen you there so you could have had a drive of mine. If you do make it you're more than welcome to passenger with me.
I'll be getting plenty of video's and pictures on the day, absolutely.
I'm really hoping for rain to be fair, I could do with the day being slower paced so I can play about with the car. I'm really keen to find out what happens when the S3 lets go. I've got a bit of a procedure for "having fun" in corners now which seems to be going very very well.
Prawn drove my car for a fair bit today, and the response was way beyond what I expected. He won't like me posting this...
I'll be getting plenty of video's and pictures on the day, absolutely.
I'm really hoping for rain to be fair, I could do with the day being slower paced so I can play about with the car. I'm really keen to find out what happens when the S3 lets go. I've got a bit of a procedure for "having fun" in corners now which seems to be going very very well.
Prawn drove my car for a fair bit today, and the response was way beyond what I expected. He won't like me posting this...
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You knob 
That's the last time I say anything nice to you
I liked it. It's very good.
Not exceptional in any particular area. But very good in most areas.
Just needs a bit more 'go' and some better brake pads.
That's the last time I say anything nice to you
I liked it. It's very good.
Not exceptional in any particular area. But very good in most areas.
Just needs a bit more 'go' and some better brake pads.
Exceptionally slow.
I'm tempted to get a sticker made up that says "SLOW 3 PLEASE PASS WITH CAUTION" for the back of it.
I'm tempted to get a sticker made up that says "SLOW 3 PLEASE PASS WITH CAUTION" for the back of it.
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Just don't get in my way at Dony and you'll be fine
LOL, for a laugh I'll try my hardest to stick with you at some point and film it to get some context.
Saw the post about these Cooksport bush things.
Had a chat with the bloke.
Bought some with super pro bushes pre installed.
Decided to get some caster increase bushes whilst I was at it.
Yeah.
They look something like this fitted up -
And they reduce the standard 45mm bush to the original (and then recalled) 30mm bush. And also replace it with a poly super pro version. Stiff and yummy.
So then I ordered these as well so I can increase the caster on the front.
Oh happy days.
Had a chat with the bloke.
Bought some with super pro bushes pre installed.
Decided to get some caster increase bushes whilst I was at it.
Yeah.
They look something like this fitted up -
And they reduce the standard 45mm bush to the original (and then recalled) 30mm bush. And also replace it with a poly super pro version. Stiff and yummy.
So then I ordered these as well so I can increase the caster on the front.
Oh happy days.
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they used to be called defcon bushes. Wonder how theyl feel if any different. That front bush doesn't do a great deal.
I think they are still on the market the old defcons...
http://www.modshack.info/defcon.htm
Personally I found I got a better steer from my S3 with the smaller wishbones and slighly more feedback
http://www.modshack.info/defcon.htm
Personally I found I got a better steer from my S3 with the smaller wishbones and slighly more feedback
As said Defcon are still around, I'm led to believe that these are slightly harder than the Defcon bushes. The material certainly is, however Defcons are usually fitted with a Powerflex split bushing where these come pre installed with a solid superpro bushing which is apparently considerably harder than the split Powerflex item.
Or maybe it's marketing BS?
With regards the caster bushes not doing much, as I inderstand it a 4 wheel alignment is recommended with corner weighting after fitting these.
As caster is statically increased so will the amount of negative camber in a linear way as steering angle increases.
I've read quite a few people say that it's made the steering a bit heavier but that's it, but no comments on track driving. Those that I have heard have been fantastic reports.
Couple that with the silver project top mounts when they turn up, hopefully my suspension at least will be 100% then.
I'm also replacing the ball joints at the same time, but next month when I replace the inner and outer track rod I will have it corner weighted and aligned when the whole package is new and adjustable.
-
Things came in the post today.
DS3000's.
Oily goodness.
Tomorrow is going to be a right effort!
Mrharris2
Boost needed
Where are you planning on getting a corner weighing Jardo. No one does them around my area not good.
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If I'm honest I didn't do a huge amount of research on it, and was planning that if it didn't work out I would be dropping it anyway.
I did read up on it, and with hindsight it probably would have been a better option. Next time though
Serious post guys.
I buy things for the car, I fit them, I say they're great and that's that. They are usually small things which add the the package and almost seamlessly just make the car nicer in a few situations.
Recently I have done some modifications to the car which have altered the way it feels entirely, biggest of which is the seats and harnesses. Obviously that isn't for everyone, so I haven't made a huge deal about how much I love the way they have transformed the car, because that's totally my own opinion and can't be shared across the board.
Today's modification however, oh my.
So the other day that Cookbots bloke posted up a thread about his parts, said they were great and blah blah blah.
I warned him that he wasn't a sponsor, the thread would be removed and that was about it.
Thread got removed, nobody other than me commented. No harm done.
I thought to myself, "sod it. I'm ordering a set, and I'll have the caster corrective bushes to go with them."
I can't stress enough here, no deal was done, no promise to write up reviews or discounts for saying anything about my thoughts. I bought them straight off the blokes website and paid in full.
Post came today...
I was so excited to open them!
I'm not going to bang on about the quality of them or the aesthetics, because nobody gives a **** and they're going to end up pressed into a cavity nobody is ever going to look at.
What a pig to fit though.
Removing the lower arms, 20 minutes.
Notice the new DS3000's in the callipers from Bill. Fantastic price, quick delivery and awesome pads.
Pressing out the old bushes....Got the oxy out in the end. Refinishing the arms and deburring them, pressing the new bushes in and fitting up the new ball joints took about two hours in all fairness. Removing the old 45mm bush these "cookbot" sleeves replace was a ******* nightmare.
These ones -
Notice the splits, cracks and rubbisness of the old bushes.
When I ordered these I also ordered a Superpro caster adjustment bush.
At this point, before I tell everybody how fantastic these are I would just like to pass a comment. Mainly because this guy has already been shut down once, and had his thread deleted. He was also previously banned from Audi-Sport for reasons I don't know...
We're allowed to was lyrical about Defcons, and we're allowed to suggest people go and buy 034 subframe bushes from Hektor. And they're not sponsors.
Before I wrote this I checked every single forum sponsors online shop and not one of them sell a bush like this for the lower arms. So I don't think this is treading on anyone's toes.
Seriously amazing bit of kit!
The turn in and increased camber during cornering is truly transformational, the car now feels as I would expect Audi to have made an S car to handle.
The front now turns quicker than the back, and the feedback through the wheel is great. You can feel the road changes, and you can feel the limits between grip and understeer much clearer.
It's rare that a modification changes the way a car feels, and it's rare that something like is simply a £150 and a couple of hours labour.
I haven't dropped any links or anything stupid like that, you're still going to have to search for them. But compared to the price of Defcons these things are REALLY good.
I also know lots of other people run these sorts of bushes and increased caster setups, but I've not seen a proper review and post like this saying how good they really are.
I cannot wait to really get to grips with the new limits of the car on track on Monday
I buy things for the car, I fit them, I say they're great and that's that. They are usually small things which add the the package and almost seamlessly just make the car nicer in a few situations.
Recently I have done some modifications to the car which have altered the way it feels entirely, biggest of which is the seats and harnesses. Obviously that isn't for everyone, so I haven't made a huge deal about how much I love the way they have transformed the car, because that's totally my own opinion and can't be shared across the board.
Today's modification however, oh my.
So the other day that Cookbots bloke posted up a thread about his parts, said they were great and blah blah blah.
I warned him that he wasn't a sponsor, the thread would be removed and that was about it.
Thread got removed, nobody other than me commented. No harm done.
I thought to myself, "sod it. I'm ordering a set, and I'll have the caster corrective bushes to go with them."
I can't stress enough here, no deal was done, no promise to write up reviews or discounts for saying anything about my thoughts. I bought them straight off the blokes website and paid in full.
Post came today...
I was so excited to open them!
I'm not going to bang on about the quality of them or the aesthetics, because nobody gives a **** and they're going to end up pressed into a cavity nobody is ever going to look at.
What a pig to fit though.
Removing the lower arms, 20 minutes.
Notice the new DS3000's in the callipers from Bill. Fantastic price, quick delivery and awesome pads.
Pressing out the old bushes....Got the oxy out in the end. Refinishing the arms and deburring them, pressing the new bushes in and fitting up the new ball joints took about two hours in all fairness. Removing the old 45mm bush these "cookbot" sleeves replace was a ******* nightmare.
These ones -
Notice the splits, cracks and rubbisness of the old bushes.
When I ordered these I also ordered a Superpro caster adjustment bush.
At this point, before I tell everybody how fantastic these are I would just like to pass a comment. Mainly because this guy has already been shut down once, and had his thread deleted. He was also previously banned from Audi-Sport for reasons I don't know...
We're allowed to was lyrical about Defcons, and we're allowed to suggest people go and buy 034 subframe bushes from Hektor. And they're not sponsors.
Before I wrote this I checked every single forum sponsors online shop and not one of them sell a bush like this for the lower arms. So I don't think this is treading on anyone's toes.
Seriously amazing bit of kit!
The turn in and increased camber during cornering is truly transformational, the car now feels as I would expect Audi to have made an S car to handle.
The front now turns quicker than the back, and the feedback through the wheel is great. You can feel the road changes, and you can feel the limits between grip and understeer much clearer.
It's rare that a modification changes the way a car feels, and it's rare that something like is simply a £150 and a couple of hours labour.
I haven't dropped any links or anything stupid like that, you're still going to have to search for them. But compared to the price of Defcons these things are REALLY good.
I also know lots of other people run these sorts of bushes and increased caster setups, but I've not seen a proper review and post like this saying how good they really are.
I cannot wait to really get to grips with the new limits of the car on track on Monday
Mrharris2
Boost needed
S3 arms fit, but you'd want to change the hubs to get real benefit from it.
And you will want to change the ARB and drop links too.
And you will want to change the ARB and drop links too.
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how do you know where to position the offset hole in the caster bushes?
is their a guide that says 'fitted at this angle will give X castor' or is it just a case of guessing and making each side match?
is their a guide that says 'fitted at this angle will give X castor' or is it just a case of guessing and making each side match?
Pretty much guess work.
There's a scienficic way to do it, if you pull a piece of string tight from the center of the bottom bush to 12 o'clock on the top bush you should get a true central line between both mounting points.
Then positioning the bush at 90* counter clockwise from 12 would give maximum caster.
If I'm honest, I guessed on both.
There's a scienficic way to do it, if you pull a piece of string tight from the center of the bottom bush to 12 o'clock on the top bush you should get a true central line between both mounting points.
Then positioning the bush at 90* counter clockwise from 12 would give maximum caster.
If I'm honest, I guessed on both.
Caster and camber changes will in general give you much improved turn in and more feel. But the reason Audi don't set the cars up like this in the first place is that tyre wear can be quite harsh on the inside edge of the tyre.
There are loads of web resources that explain the effects of these changes.
http://www.vikingspeedshop.com/suspension-101-camber-caster-and-toe/Usually
when you start altering caster and camber this can have an affect on Toe so this needs checking. Running a lot of camber and too much toe is a recipie for disaster as regards tyre life.
You can get cheap tools that will give you an idea of the changes you are making to the camber and caster.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gunson-OC...586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53e6f970ca
Karl
There are loads of web resources that explain the effects of these changes.
http://www.vikingspeedshop.com/suspension-101-camber-caster-and-toe/Usually
when you start altering caster and camber this can have an affect on Toe so this needs checking. Running a lot of camber and too much toe is a recipie for disaster as regards tyre life.
You can get cheap tools that will give you an idea of the changes you are making to the camber and caster.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gunson-OC...586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53e6f970ca
Karl
All noted Karl, and already done.
I didn't do this on my driveway, did it at my dads and aligned the car after.
I didn't do this on my driveway, did it at my dads and aligned the car after.
I saw on your FB pic some other items that may need some time to set...
When you thinking about getting them fitted? That will totally make everything above make even more sense
When you thinking about getting them fitted? That will totally make everything above make even more sense
This guy has been selling on the TTforum, him and his products have a good rep!
Updated engine mounts will be going in as soon as I get some used ones to fill
Had them in the A3, they were lovely!
Had them in the A3, they were lovely!
Much much much stiffer.
It's called Polytek, pourable polyeurethane.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=230796476234
It's called Polytek, pourable polyeurethane.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=230796476234
Got a set of mk4 golf 1.8t engine mounts if ur still looking for a set to fill? Got them left over from when i filled mine
Mrharris2
Boost needed
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So my return to the track was a passenger ride in this car with Jardo at the helm! Got to admit, this car holds the road(ok track) pretty well, better than mine anyways, the tyres makes quite a difference, and the bucket seats were comfy, holding me snug through all the twisty bits! And the harnesses didn't quite decapitate me! lol
I'm glad I made it back to the pits alive!
I'm glad I made it back to the pits alive!
Went to Donington, drove around all day and put in loads of laps.
Car went very very well, apart from boiling brake fluid after 6 or 7 hard laps which is to be expected because it was a much faster day than I had expected it to be.
Times were very competitive, but I didn't really have anything to compare myself with because I was playing with GT3's, 996 turbo's and well seasoned E46 M3's.
But over all I had lots of fun, learned lots about the car and it's new setup.
Took Prawns dad out and showed him the car. He seemed suitable impressed with the car and was over joyed that I've actually learned to drive properly. This was the highlight of my day, because Al knows me for the gobby little **** that I am so to get some praise off him means a lot to me. Especially as I was on the back foot from a very unfortunate misunderstanding regarding consent to overtake early in the day which saw me indicating and expecting Prawn to high boost and nip past on the start finish straight before Redgate, but I didn't know Prawn was having AFR concerns and was only running low boost, so all he had was his faster exit speed from the previous corner to take. I should have lifted for him, instead he was stuck in my blind spot and because I was expecting him to fly past and he hadn't I assumed he had pitted and kept him on the dirty track, off line and unable to outdrag me. A largely embarrassing and amateur moment from me really. Sorry Prawn!
Other than that, faultless day.
Confidence has grown hugely, and I'm really using the car in a way that is smoother and less stressful for the car and also a lot quicker.
It's amazing how quickly you can learn. I'm very very happy with the feel of the S3 now.
Timing wise I started the day lapping around 1:37.
Finished the day in the mid 1:27's and my "virtual" best time which is all my best sectors merged together was showing mid 1:25 which is very respectable timing for Donington.
Forward plans are;
Brake cooling and upgrading the fluid to ATE Blue.
Plans for this are to remove the front fog lights and purchase some universal front ducts and cut and sand them to form around the IC pipes and then make some sort of hub mounted duct plate like Prawn has. Universal ones are available online, which should help.
Suitable cooled I am confident these DS3000's and Ultimax discs can perform well for 20 minute stints then 30 minutes off on open pit lane days.
I need more front camber. Adjustable top plates will sort this, and a corner weight session.
I need to fit these poly engine mounts, they'll make the car feel much nicer holding it flat through corners when I'm tempted to lift a little.
I want a cage.
I've convinced my lovely lady that out next house will have a double garage so I can keep the track car. It was never really her choice though, just a courtesy.
-
One of my faster times laps, I stopped filming after about half 2.
And some pictures.
Prawn and I, and our friend Rich's mapped up 135i rocket ship.
Car went very very well, apart from boiling brake fluid after 6 or 7 hard laps which is to be expected because it was a much faster day than I had expected it to be.
Times were very competitive, but I didn't really have anything to compare myself with because I was playing with GT3's, 996 turbo's and well seasoned E46 M3's.
But over all I had lots of fun, learned lots about the car and it's new setup.
Took Prawns dad out and showed him the car. He seemed suitable impressed with the car and was over joyed that I've actually learned to drive properly. This was the highlight of my day, because Al knows me for the gobby little **** that I am so to get some praise off him means a lot to me. Especially as I was on the back foot from a very unfortunate misunderstanding regarding consent to overtake early in the day which saw me indicating and expecting Prawn to high boost and nip past on the start finish straight before Redgate, but I didn't know Prawn was having AFR concerns and was only running low boost, so all he had was his faster exit speed from the previous corner to take. I should have lifted for him, instead he was stuck in my blind spot and because I was expecting him to fly past and he hadn't I assumed he had pitted and kept him on the dirty track, off line and unable to outdrag me. A largely embarrassing and amateur moment from me really. Sorry Prawn!
Other than that, faultless day.
Confidence has grown hugely, and I'm really using the car in a way that is smoother and less stressful for the car and also a lot quicker.
It's amazing how quickly you can learn. I'm very very happy with the feel of the S3 now.
Timing wise I started the day lapping around 1:37.
Finished the day in the mid 1:27's and my "virtual" best time which is all my best sectors merged together was showing mid 1:25 which is very respectable timing for Donington.
Forward plans are;
Brake cooling and upgrading the fluid to ATE Blue.
Plans for this are to remove the front fog lights and purchase some universal front ducts and cut and sand them to form around the IC pipes and then make some sort of hub mounted duct plate like Prawn has. Universal ones are available online, which should help.
Suitable cooled I am confident these DS3000's and Ultimax discs can perform well for 20 minute stints then 30 minutes off on open pit lane days.
I need more front camber. Adjustable top plates will sort this, and a corner weight session.
I need to fit these poly engine mounts, they'll make the car feel much nicer holding it flat through corners when I'm tempted to lift a little.
I want a cage.
I've convinced my lovely lady that out next house will have a double garage so I can keep the track car. It was never really her choice though, just a courtesy.
-
One of my faster times laps, I stopped filming after about half 2.
And some pictures.
Prawn and I, and our friend Rich's mapped up 135i rocket ship.
Last edited:
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Sam_
Down under
It wasn't only the fluid that got hot, the wheels were that hot the centres wouldn't stop in. May take some marshmallows with me if I go again.
Didn't get any pictures of you on the track you were just a blur.
Karl.
Didn't get any pictures of you on the track you were just a blur.
Karl.
