1.8t Bad Engine?... and some stuff about tyres

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S3ALEX90

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so sunday gone I attended the amd rolling road day with 8p lads didn't get chance to meet some as I had to leave early to attend players, but while I was there I spoke to one of the lads at amd just about general tuning stage 1-3 etc. his response was a bit of a shock to me as ive heard quite a lot of praise for the 1.8ts but he basically said that tuning a 1.8t is a total waste of money there would be no point in going stage 3 or above as the engine design makes it stupidly laggy and wouldnt have full power till after 5000rpm.. you would be better off buying an 8p and starting from there

is the 1.8t really a bad engine to tune?
 
lol
guys a tit mate been in many 1.8ts that fly with little lag
clearly not their sales staff was he !!
hahahaha
 
no. Its just the tfsi is that much better.
amd wouldve quit playing with 1.8ts when the 2.0 was released as theyre a big company that follows the latest vag has to offer.
meanwhile 1.8t tuning has carried on evolving to equal that and in some cases beyond what's done on a 2.0.

the 1.8t is still used by lots of tuners and builders to set records all over the world. I don't see any tfsi powered cars doing 9 or 8 second quarter miles and exceeding far beyond 1000hp.
 
but, for the average bloke that wants a supercar killer street car, the tfsi is better and easier in many ways.
its only when you see what Alex is doing on here that it gets tricky/expensive/more indepth. Whereas that all starts at 300-350hp and above for us.
 
lol I don't think so he was pretty much on till id guess, handing out the print outs and what not. there was a couple there running over 400 one very nearly 500! id love that sort of power in an 8l but lack of knowledge and knowhow are somewhat holding me back l:( lol. another thing I noticed on the dyno the 8ps were turning all 4 wheels where as mine was just the front is that right or is mine broken?
 
Fair play... this made me wet myself with laughter

The 20v engine is one of the most tunable engines on the planet... as for power after 5000rpm, he clearly doesn't know how to build a decent package...

Here is a comparison of a std S3 vs a K04 hybrid S3 vs my GT35

tuffty_STDvsHybridvsGT35_Main_20140916.jpg


tuffty_STDvsHybridvsGT35_Multi_20140916.jpg


The 1.8t is an awesome engine and anyone that tells you otherwise is full of sh*te! :)

<tuffty/>
 
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it was a little disheartening to hear it but you lot have filled me with hope lol. is there anyway to make ours more 4wdish? thanks for clearing things up!
 
superkarl said:
gen 2 haldex is a little smarter than our ***** and doesn't throw a wobbly on a dyno
Click to expand...

Aye but we can at least pull fuse/unplug nice and easy... in real world terms it makes little difference... nice to have a haldex controller thats a little more intelligent though... maybe the HPA kit will live up to the hype..

<tuffty/>
 
The only people that slag off the 20v engine are ones that don't know how to build/tune them IMO... the TFSI engines have a better base line power output arguably but are limited when chasing higher power outputs in many ways...

You can use a TFSI crank in a 1.8t and almost instantly negate any advantage a TFSI starts off with...

You may gather I have a real soft spot for the 1.8t ;P

<tuffty/>
 
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call up amd and tell them you have 5k to spend on a conversion on your audi 1.8t s3 and lets see if they tell you its pointless as it will be laggy and instead use that toward a 2.0tfsi !!!
tbh ive never been a fan of them and would never point anyone their way with a 1.8t
its nice to know that the staff agree!!hahaha
 
I suppose its hard not to be enthusiastic with an engine like yours haha I can only hope that one day my car will be as good a spec as yours! lol
 
lol I wont be going back there to be honest my next port of call will be badger5 as people on here cant praise them enough!
 
lol no problem man. did I meet you at curbrough sprint track? do you have the black s3 stripped out two bucket seats?
 
it would certainly seem so!!!!!?????
hahaha
what were you driving??
 
yeh i thought so.
yeh id ignore the comments made to ya mate.
if you have the money the sky is the limit!!!
doing curby next time yeh!!??
what was your time in the end??
daz
 
Yeahh definitely! hopefully next time with a few mods or at least coilovers it leans some what on standard suspension lol.I think it was mid to late 31 seconds. you hoping to break out of the 30s next time?
 
1.8t ftw! It was your s3 8L i seen. Looked mint. I was in the a3 at amd
 
i wanna 28.xx something tbh lol i have fmic now which has helped a lot with high revs
my alignment wasnt great nor were tyres.
ive ordered some semi slicks already and in the process of sorting my camber plates
so defo low 29's
i did a 30.00 dead!!! typical of me!!!
prawn did a 29.4 in my car with only one lap in it hahahaha!!!
 
what tyres have you ordered are they road legal aswell? im looking at tyres at the moment but have no idea whats good or not

lol noway! thats some serious driving no wonder he got the quickest time haha.

ill be happy to get 30 or below, is there a date for the next one yet?

cheers man! i need a front mount like yours! was good to see another 8l there I thought I was going to be the only one lol.
 
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<tuffty/> said:
The only people that slag off the 20v engine are ones that don't know how to build/tune them IMO... the TFSI engines have a better base line power output arguably but are limited when chasing higher power outputs in many ways...

You can use a TFSI crank in a 1.8t and almost instantly negate any advantage a TFSI starts off with...

You may gather I have a real soft spot for the 1.8t ;P

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

Hi tufty...you'll excuse me poking fun at that,especially in the light of what your car is turning out now,but as karl and yourself say,the TFSi is a better baseline package,but I think you run into the same classes of problems when chasing serious power in both,if not most engines,on a bhp/litre basis.

The TFSi in it's S3 form is easy to get 360-380bhp out of,and just needs a few bolt-on parts,and software,but as you find with the 1.8t,once you start to get into big turbos etc,your only real limits are how much you can afford,and who makes the parts.

600bhp is relatively straightforwards parts wise,and 500-550bhp is reliable if built properly,for an everyday runner like mine,but I think one of the big grey areas on the TFSi right now,is good software for high power engines,and that's down to the likes of Rick and a few other specialists.

I also agree with a couple of other points made by karl in that you don't see many(if any) TFSi's turning over 1000bhp,but I'd not want that on an everyday car(LOL...well I might but...)as reliability etc would be a concern long term,and also that a lot of tuners with large volumes of work will be turning from older models,to newer ones,where the majority of work lies.

That's simply business,and I'd expect mine to start losing it's workshop appeal in a few yrs as well,although the US market for quality parts has really taken off in the last year.
 
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I wondered when you would be along Alex LOL...

Will be interesting to see how the tuning market evolves for the TFSI engine... like you say as an out the box solution they have a lot of appeal and the Mk5 chassis (and its derivatives) is a really nice car to drive...

I have driven Bill's Leon Cupra with its 360-370hp and the handling with just a set of decent coilovers surpasses the Mk4 chassis in a similarly upgraded form imo... thats not to say the Mk4 chassis can't be brought up top spec, it just needs a little more work...

I think there is a distinct crossover point between Mk4 and Mk5 chassis cars as a whole... the 1.8t is the last of what could be considered a conventional engine... the TFSI with direct injection, fancy flaps and other gizmo's do make life a little harder tuning wise beyond the conventional bolt on upgrades and as for the relative power output you also have to factor in that its a 2ltr to start with and I know this has a massive affect on power delivery, spool and torque as demonstrated by bunging a TFSI crank into a 20v... the turbo (on the S3/Leon Cupra/ED30) is larger as a result as the 2ltr will spool the bigger turbo much sooner and these are the internals that form some of the best Mk4 chassis K04 hybrid turbos too...

the 20v is far from dead and the TFSI is still finding its feet imo... was talking to an Audi Tech the other day about the new engine for the latest 8V S3... the exhaust manifold is integral to the head!!!... not sure if thats progression or not tbh lol...

<tuffty/>
 
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audi upgrades
You knew I'd have to stick my nose in sooner or later!

The 1.8t with its 5V head etc is a very tough,well thought out engine,and as you guys have all shown,has the potential for serious tuning and reliable power.

What you say about the TFSi is spot on....direct injection is great,and saves a lot of fuel,but leaves limited options other than the RS4 injectors when you want more power,and they don't have an optimal spray pattern,so you either get a bit of smoke(and mine sure can do that) or you pay a fortune to companies like HPA.

Then the other side effect of DI....coked up valve stems....yummy.

The runner flaps are a pain if you keep them,and a real pain if you delete them,as cold running is knobbly to say the least.....it will start and idle,but without appropriate software,it won't pull until it's warm.

And yes....the new engine with integrated head and manifold.....that was a clever move for economy and heat management I'm sure,but tuning that will be a nightmare I'd have thought.
 
AMD make me lol every time they are mentioned.

Have they made their dyno any more reliable than licking your finger and poking it out the window to determine power yet?

Popcorn grabs.
 
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Lmao they tested a completely standard s3 to check the rollers and it put out exactly what it did from factory. mine was around 250 with a stage 1map
 
16Klappe said:
AMD make me lol every time they are mentioned.

Have they made their dyno any more reliable than licking your finger and poking it out the window to determine power yet?

Popcorn grabs.
Click to expand...

I think that's rather old news now.

There were around 20 of us there on Sunday with a range of stock and modified cars from 8Ls,through 8Ps and an RS6

The stock 8Ps made around 260 bhp which is pretty much spot on and the RS6 turned out around 540bhp.

So their rollers are about as good as anyone's.
 
I don't know if it is old news.

Any company that takes tens of thousands of pounds from people and gives them false results in exchange is going to live with that stigma for a long time. Especially if they spend those years arguing about it.

Mr AMD once told me that his "big fans" added 20bhp over a dyno plot that was run at R-Tech in 3* ambient temps.

Telling people that their engines are **** doesn't really help my opinion.

This thread was the one which sealed the coffin on AMD for me.

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/any-opinions-of-amd-in-essex-for-remapping-my-s3.180182/
 
Last edited:
16Klappe said:
I don't know if it is old news.

Any company that takes tens of thousands of pounds from people and gives them false results in exchange is going to live with that stigma for a long time. Especially if they spend those years arguing about it.

Mr AMD once told me that his "big fans" added 20bhp over a dyno plot that was run at R-Tech in 3* ambient temps.

Telling people that their engines are **** doesn't really help my opinion.

This thread was the one which sealed the coffin on AMD for me.

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/any-opinions-of-amd-in-essex-for-remapping-my-s3.180182/
Click to expand...

The "optimistic dyno" thing really is old news I'm afraid,and never came back after the RR was recalibrated.

Mine for instance was first dyno'd around 5yrs ago there,and barely made stock power at 260ish bhp,so there certainly wasn't much optimism there,not least from me.

That was borne out by several other people there this weekend,who got figures that were pretty much as they should have been,so I guess that one has had it day,done the rounds etc etc.

I agree with your comments about telling people their engines are no good isn't helpful,but I can only speak from my own experiences,which have been good throughout,but that's a different engine and one that they're very good at sorting.
 
I'm just ranting anyway, ignore me.

No harm meant by it.

:audibash:
 
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16Klappe said:
I'm just ranting anyway, ignore me.

No harm meant by it.

:audibash:
Click to expand...

I'd never ignore a fellow engine head.

As long as my car goes,and goes well,I'm happy!
 
Very old news indeed jardo.

Something was changed, a long while back now, probably ~2 years ago, and AMD dyno results now appear to be fairly well inline with those found elsewhere.

Welcome to ASN Alex :welcome!:

Your car looked smart, especially when we were pushing it to bump start it :racer:
 
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S3ALEX90 said:
what tyres have you ordered are they road legal aswell? im looking at tyres at the moment but have no idea whats good or not

lol noway! thats some serious driving no wonder he got the quickest time haha.

ill be happy to get 30 or below, is there a date for the next one yet?

cheers man! i need a front mount like yours! was good to see another 8l there I thought I was going to be the only one lol.
Click to expand...

my tyres are staying under wraps until me and mr prawn asses them hopefully at donny.
then i will be happy to post what they are and how they work.
bit of an experiment!!!!
but i have 2 sets of wheels which will be for wet/road use and semi slicks which will be track only.

you planning on more track stuff??
where is it you live?
 
hahaha
im a little uneasy ill get slated!!!
 
you will be at donny anyway so you will know!!
 
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