I notice your mate staceys3 has painted his charge pipe black and still has the oem warning. Not sure if he covered that as he painted it, or got it redone somehow? Maybe worth asking him?
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This car / build is what's prompted me to take the direction with basil that I have 
One day in the distant future I would like to end up with tuffty wagons little brother as Basil's only a fwd 1.8t sport , paint everything that's removed or changed and change things even if not 101% necessary , it's a slow process BUT gives me great satisfaction
The car is a massive credit to you and your OCD Paul but I guess like all tinkerers you'll never be finished ? lol
One day in the distant future I would like to end up with tuffty wagons little brother as Basil's only a fwd 1.8t sport , paint everything that's removed or changed and change things even if not 101% necessary , it's a slow process BUT gives me great satisfaction
The car is a massive credit to you and your OCD Paul but I guess like all tinkerers you'll never be finished ?
lol
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Fairly sure that was on his old K26 setup and he painted around the warning sign on the OE pipe...
<tuffty/>
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Grabbed a free ramp today to get the rear arm bushes done...
Drilled the old rubber bushes to make it easier to remove...
Makeshift tool to help pull them out...
Bingo!...
Clean up the orifice...
And push in the new bushes
Alignment was not much fun... I had marked up the plate before undoing the bolts but its a tricky job getting it re-aligned...
Found it easier to fit the two forward bolts and using a handy helper and lever bars managed to get the plate to more or less line up...
All back together...
Things to note... you need to unclip the brake lines as these will be damaged as you drop the arms... I also unbolted the flexi hose bracket from the rear arm (the other end is held on a bracket welded to the pivot plate) so I could move the pivot plate up out the way to remove and refit the bushes... you also need to unclip the ABS wiring from the plastic conduit on the arms and watch out for the xenon level sensor arm as its close to being in a position to snap off if not very careful
Next job was to try and sort something out with my gearbox leak as it appears to have got worse...
...will see how that holds up... looks like I will be building the replacement gearbox over the winter...
Next job was to paint the new cam cover... etch primer...
...couple of coats of cheap *** simoniz wheel silver...
...and finally lacquer...
Next up was making my OEM looking engine bay a little more OEM looking lol... the Forge supersize DV is a bit of a giveaway in silver...
..so painted it satin black...
I think it adds to the double take effect that my engine bay has... obviously the inlet mani is a bit of a giveaway but most who have seen the engine bay are still rather surprised when I tell them the power
Will be sorting a full alignment in the next week or so and also looking at changing the tyres for something a bit grippier as she is a little lively at the moment lol
<tuffty/>
Drilled the old rubber bushes to make it easier to remove...
Makeshift tool to help pull them out...
Bingo!...
Clean up the orifice...
And push in the new bushes
Alignment was not much fun... I had marked up the plate before undoing the bolts but its a tricky job getting it re-aligned...
Found it easier to fit the two forward bolts and using a handy helper and lever bars managed to get the plate to more or less line up...
All back together...
Things to note... you need to unclip the brake lines as these will be damaged as you drop the arms... I also unbolted the flexi hose bracket from the rear arm (the other end is held on a bracket welded to the pivot plate) so I could move the pivot plate up out the way to remove and refit the bushes... you also need to unclip the ABS wiring from the plastic conduit on the arms and watch out for the xenon level sensor arm as its close to being in a position to snap off if not very careful
Next job was to try and sort something out with my gearbox leak as it appears to have got worse...
...will see how that holds up... looks like I will be building the replacement gearbox over the winter...
Next job was to paint the new cam cover... etch primer...
...couple of coats of cheap *** simoniz wheel silver...
...and finally lacquer...
Next up was making my OEM looking engine bay a little more OEM looking lol... the Forge supersize DV is a bit of a giveaway in silver...
..so painted it satin black...
I think it adds to the double take effect that my engine bay has... obviously the inlet mani is a bit of a giveaway but most who have seen the engine bay are still rather surprised when I tell them the power
Will be sorting a full alignment in the next week or so and also looking at changing the tyres for something a bit grippier as she is a little lively at the moment lol
<tuffty/>
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Had the day off to do a few odds and sods... popped over to Bills to look at giving the cam cover another coat of lacquer and order a couple of bits from TPS so I can do the haldex oil change and replace the track rod end locking nuts... then this happened!!..
Bill worked his magic but IAT's seemed to be a little high... it was over 30 degrees in the unit and this was translating to 50+ degrees IAT over the runs... turns out my WMI wasn't working either and as the ECU will start pulling timing on approach to 40+ degrees IAT the meth needed to be working... turned out to be a sticking check valve so with that working the consistency returned and figures settled...
Was getting quite a lot of surge from 4.5k so had to feed boost in to control it... this is where it started to be obvious that std cams are not really up to the job... getting the typical torque drop off at 6000 rpm which of course was killing power... the turbo has plenty in it, I already know the engine can rev (ahem!!) and even though the turbo has a 0.63 hotside its not a massive restriction and this was backed up by EGTs post turbine hitting just over 750 degrees which is next to nothing realistically... the hotside glowed a dull red so really wasn't being taxed which left one thing... flow through the engine...
This meant that she didn't produce the 500hp I was hoping for but I know why and know how to fix it... my GT30 setup was pretty much maxed out and would consistently do around 390hp... this feels nowhere near as flat out so she has more in her...
Refitted my ECU and flashed the (current) final map in...
The scores on the doors...
Fights me all the way this one LOL...
So, next job...
LOL... well... after I have saved some money to pay for them that is lol
On the road the car is insane... second and third gear just seem relentless to the redline... the torque increase is massively noticeable... anyone considering rebuilding their 1.8 really would be foolish not to fork out the extra 500 quid for a stroker crank... its just better everywhere!
Massive thank you to Bill for taking the time to map my car today... really appreciate it dude...!
<tuffty/>
Bill worked his magic but IAT's seemed to be a little high... it was over 30 degrees in the unit and this was translating to 50+ degrees IAT over the runs... turns out my WMI wasn't working either and as the ECU will start pulling timing on approach to 40+ degrees IAT the meth needed to be working... turned out to be a sticking check valve so with that working the consistency returned and figures settled...
Was getting quite a lot of surge from 4.5k so had to feed boost in to control it... this is where it started to be obvious that std cams are not really up to the job... getting the typical torque drop off at 6000 rpm which of course was killing power... the turbo has plenty in it, I already know the engine can rev (ahem!!) and even though the turbo has a 0.63 hotside its not a massive restriction and this was backed up by EGTs post turbine hitting just over 750 degrees which is next to nothing realistically... the hotside glowed a dull red so really wasn't being taxed which left one thing... flow through the engine...
This meant that she didn't produce the 500hp I was hoping for but I know why and know how to fix it... my GT30 setup was pretty much maxed out and would consistently do around 390hp... this feels nowhere near as flat out so she has more in her...
Refitted my ECU and flashed the (current) final map in...
The scores on the doors...
Fights me all the way this one LOL...
So, next job...
LOL... well... after I have saved some money to pay for them that is lol
On the road the car is insane... second and third gear just seem relentless to the redline... the torque increase is massively noticeable... anyone considering rebuilding their 1.8 really would be foolish not to fork out the extra 500 quid for a stroker crank... its just better everywhere!
Massive thank you to Bill for taking the time to map my car today... really appreciate it dude...!
<tuffty/>
Sounds like some promissing results
I did see your facebook post with the figures earlier but cant see any of these pics as they're blocked on the poxy work computer! What sort of boost levels did you climb to in the end?
Do you think the AH coolers up to the job? (hope so as i'm in the same boat)
I did see your facebook post with the figures earlier but cant see any of these pics as they're blocked on the poxy work computer! What sort of boost levels did you climb to in the end?
Do you think the AH coolers up to the job? (hope so as i'm in the same boat)
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Sounds like some promissing results
I did see your facebook post with the figures earlier but cant see any of these pics as they're blocked on the poxy work computer! What sort of boost levels did you climb to in the end?
Do you think the AH coolers up to the job? (hope so as i'm in the same boat)
I have posted both graphs up on FB now mate... let me know if you still can't see them
I think the AH Fabs cooler will be fine... it was a hot day and the level of heat generated by a high horsepower turbo engine is quite intense... on the road IATs are much better... airflow to the the cooler is quite limited on the S3 without modding the bumper but I plan to try fabricating a type of duct to force air across the surface of the cooler... my little A2 has a similar bit of kit on it that seems to direct air to the section hidden behind the bumper so will try something similar
430hp is the at the wheels figure mate... this changes depending on transmission losses and the tyres were pretty sticky to stop wheel spinning on the dyno as this produces false torque figures and subsequently incorrectly high hp figures... 477hp is where she sits currently as we turned the boost back down to the second run settings... more boost just lifted the torque a little and had no effect on power as the engine can't get the air through it quick enough
<tuffty/>
Sam_
Down under
Awesome result
Are you getting Bill's custom grind or off the shelf ones? Don't fancy the IE CVA1 or 2's?
Are you getting Bill's custom grind or off the shelf ones? Don't fancy the IE CVA1 or 2's?
I realise it is the power at the wheels. When you say you were "aiming" for 500hp, were you meaning at the fly or at the wheels?
All along I thought you meant wheel hp as that is usually what people discuss when modifying/tuning their cars.
When people quote their flywheel hp figure to me I usually feel that they are trying to brag
All along I thought you meant wheel hp as that is usually what people discuss when modifying/tuning their cars.
When people quote their flywheel hp figure to me I usually feel that they are trying to brag
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Awesome result
Are you getting Bill's custom grind or off the shelf ones? Don't fancy the IE CVA1 or 2's?
Leaning towards Bill's custom cams... I know these work at least ;P
You are thinking too much like an american lol.... flywheel horsepower is all I care about... wheel horsepower using proper coast down is too variable and subjective to conditions... measured flywheel horse power from a dyno that can measure coast down losses is more accurate IMO... I trust Bill's dyno and seeing as my car has only really been on his dyno all power changes are relative so you see actual gains rather than just some figure...
When I went to the a dyno day a while back (where my coolant hose split and the engine bay caught fire!!) the dyno showed 50hp more than when run on Bill's... this is fairly typical of what I have seen and why I treat dyno figures (particularly from other dyno's) with a pinch of salt...
So to be clear lol... I am looking to get over 500hp at the flywheel on Bill's dyno consistently across at least 3 back to back runs... the runs we did yesterday suggests the consistency is there I just need to open the engines flow a little more to achieve the horse power the rest of the hardware is capable of...
Its all about the flow (tm) ;P
<tuffty/>
That's very interesting. My apologies, over here in Australia wheel HP (well kW) is usually what is quoted when you ask the bogan doing burnouts how much power their commodore (bogan car) is making.
I would have thought that it would be more accurate given that a dyno measures power at the wheels and then uses the deacceleration to calculate the flywheel power, or have I misunderstood?
When people say that you can expect 260hp from a remap on a s3, are they referring to flywheel or wheel HP? Or 180 from a k03 a3
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That would be incorrect. ATW is not a more accurate measurement at all.
Many variables, effect the "apparent" atw figures, and the popular mainline/dyno dynamics type units prevalent 'down under' are twin roller setups, but the cars where powerfull enough or badly strapped enough, or combination of both, allow the tyre to ride up off the rear roller on to the front.. This changes the drag and "apparent" atw figure... As does pumping up your tyres silly high..
Measure coastdowns as well as atw and you have the full picture, and a more accurate one imho
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Flywheel horsepower... wheel horse power is a result of flywheel power - losses between engine and the ground... flywheel horsepower should remain a constant, wheel power will vary depending on how sticky the tyres are, how hot the gearbox oil is etc... both values are accurate but flywheel hp is the constant... so on a cold run 200hp at flywheel, 180hp at wheels = 20hp losses... once the gearbox oil has warmed up and losses are less that same 200hp could result in 190hp at the wheels = 10hp losses... its still 200hp
<tuffty/>
Thanks for the replies guys, I've learnt something new. All the dynos I've had my car on have been twin rollers, strapped down well though.
At first I was thinking you're mad thinking that flywheel HP would be more accurate because you need to convert your wheel HP to flywheel HP. But now I understand that wheel HP can change but flywheel won't (apart from variables other than the car itself).
Don't know why I ever doubted you mate it won't happen again
At first I was thinking you're mad thinking that flywheel HP would be more accurate because you need to convert your wheel HP to flywheel HP. But now I understand that wheel HP can change but flywheel won't (apart from variables other than the car itself).
Don't know why I ever doubted you mate it won't happen again
Nice one mate and now seen the graphs it looks wicked with still producing lovely power low downI have posted both graphs up on FB now mate... let me know if you still can't see them
I think the AH Fabs cooler will be fine... it was a hot day and the level of heat generated by a high horsepower turbo engine is quite intense... on the road IATs are much better... airflow to the the cooler is quite limited on the S3 without modding the bumper but I plan to try fabricating a type of duct to force air across the surface of the cooler... my little A2 has a similar bit of kit on it that seems to direct air to the section hidden behind the bumper so will try something similar
430hp is the at the wheels figure mate... this changes depending on transmission losses and the tyres were pretty sticky to stop wheel spinning on the dyno as this produces false torque figures and subsequently incorrectly high hp figures... 477hp is where she sits currently as we turned the boost back down to the second run settings... more boost just lifted the torque a little and had no effect on power as the engine can't get the air through it quick enough
<tuffty/>
stroker ftwIt definitely makes sense channelling the airflow so it can't escape as even the smics have ducts, you gonna tig on some plates to the end tanks?
Regarfing the pics I couldn't see its just work block most things and theres so much mass surrounding you in there that it turns it into a mobile black spot
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Yeah, thats the plan... will have a look at it as a winter project...
Popped into Bills on the way home from work this afternoon and grabbed a couple of graphs from the dyno that I think are quite interesting..
Firstly a comparison of my old GT3071 on a 1.8 bottom end vs the GT3582 on a stroker bottom end (82mm pistons remember and not the typical 83mm that most go for)
Despite being a much larger turbo and having a larger manifold to fill there is just more of everything everywhere... was quite surprised to see this... they are both on 0.63 a/r hotsides but the GT30 was on a log manifold with a smaller internal volume and the GT30 has a much smaller turbine... merged collector and stroker ftw!!
This is of course not even finished yet... cams should hopefully allow me to use more boost between 4.5k and 6k where surge is present and lift torque... to get 500hp at my redline for example I need to be seeing just over 336ftlbs of torque at 7.8k rpm (Torque = (5252*Power)/RPM so (5252*500)/7800 = 336.7 ftlbs)... to work back power then transpose the formula as Power = (Torque*RPM)/5252
Another interesting comparison (I think) is Std K04 (unmapped) vs Hybrid K04 vs GT35
I was hoping the combo of parts I used was gong to make the car pretty drivable... when seen back to back with these other graphs I was really quite surprised how well the GT35 faired considering its classed as a huge turbo and generally considered laggy...
A K04 on a stroker is a different ball game altogether of course but in context of my build and the original spec I am really quite pleased with the outcome...
<tuffty/>
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You have taught me something else...
I did not know the following formula
Torque = (5252*Power)/RPM
Judging by that formula, Torque is just how early you make power in the rev range? For example a low revving diesel makes a lot of torque but in comparison a high revving Ferrari v8 does not make as much as you would expect. So as long as your torque stays constant, you will keep making power as you rev higher?
I did not know the following formula
Torque = (5252*Power)/RPM
Judging by that formula, Torque is just how early you make power in the rev range? For example a low revving diesel makes a lot of torque but in comparison a high revving Ferrari v8 does not make as much as you would expect. So as long as your torque stays constant, you will keep making power as you rev higher?
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Essentially yes... the following image pretty much sums this up (pinched from Integrated Engineering's website)
<tuffty/>
wow I can't believe I never picked up on this before! In the picture since the torque doesn't drop off with the new camshafts you are still making HP. Is that what I am supposed to be seeing? The torque only peaks a little higher with the new cams but doesn't drop off allowing you to make more power?
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The calc is the fundermantal bhp one
EVERYTHING is calculated from torque and rpm...
hold torque higher and sustained in the rev range, more power is achieved
EVERYTHING is calculated from torque and rpm...
hold torque higher and sustained in the rev range, more power is achieved
I was always confused how a dyno that only measures how fast the wheels are turning and the acceleration of the wheels, could have two outputs (torque and horsepower). Now that I see they are directly related, it is all making sense.
Torque = (5252*Power)/RPM
you should also note that at 5252rpm the torque and power values are equal - which is the point that the torque and power curves cross over on the graph (so long as they are all plotted on the same axes and the units are consistent with each other)
you should also note that at 5252rpm the torque and power values are equal - which is the point that the torque and power curves cross over on the graph (so long as they are all plotted on the same axes and the units are consistent with each other)
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speed at wheels is either measured at rollers and converted to an engine rpm by a calibration, or direct hooked onto the engine for rpm.
dyno needs to know rpm for its "test" gear, whichever gear is chosen to be run in
Torque is measured on load based measuring dynos, rpm, then bhp can be calculated
Some inertia only dynos will use the mass of their rollers and calculate an acceleration force required to accelerate them from x to y speed over z time.
Quite a minefield on how they all work...
Fundermentally boils back to the pre-posted calculation of course
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Yeah, thats the plan... will have a look at it as a winter project...
Popped into Bills on the way home from work this afternoon and grabbed a couple of graphs from the dyno that I think are quite interesting..
Firstly a comparison of my old GT3071 on a 1.8 bottom end vs the GT3582 on a stroker bottom end (82mm pistons remember and not the typical 83mm that most go for)
Despite being a much larger turbo and having a larger manifold to fill there is just more of everything everywhere... was quite surprised to see this... they are both on 0.63 a/r hotsides but the GT30 was on a log manifold with a smaller internal volume and the GT30 has a much smaller turbine... merged collector and stroker ftw!!
This is of course not even finished yet... cams should hopefully allow me to use more boost between 4.5k and 6k where surge is present and lift torque... to get 500hp at my redline for example I need to be seeing just over 336ftlbs of torque at 7.8k rpm (Torque = (5252*Power)/RPM so (5252*500)/7800 = 336.7 ftlbs)... to work back power then transpose the formula as Power = (Torque*RPM)/5252
Another interesting comparison (I think) is Std K04 (unmapped) vs Hybrid K04 vs GT35
I was hoping the combo of parts I used was gong to make the car pretty drivable... when seen back to back with these other graphs I was really quite surprised how well the GT35 faired considering its classed as a huge turbo and generally considered laggy...
A K04 on a stroker is a different ball game altogether of course but in context of my build and the original spec I am really quite pleased with the outcome...
<tuffty/>
I think that's an excellent set of results.
I had a GT3071 on my 8P and then switched to a GTX3076,and I don't think there's much in it lag-wise,or on/off boost driveability,but as you've also found,there's so much more when it comes on boost.
Yours also seems to confirm how mine runs,which is a great wadge of grunt at around 4500rpm.
Enjoy!
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Tuffty ALMOST drove this into work today.....
....and then, for some reason. he didn't
I think we should all shout at him.
You've got nearly 500bhp man, go and enjoy it!
....and then, for some reason. he didn't
I think we should all shout at him.
You've got nearly 500bhp man, go and enjoy it!
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I have Friday and Monday off to do some more car stuff... painting mostly lol... will drive her then..
<tuffty/>
<tuffty/>
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Would you actual fecking believe it!!!... was at our local Sainsbury today on my way to Bill's in the S3... and some a**hole reversed into the bumper!!! ***!!!
...and the worst bit...
I didn't see it happen but luckily there was a witness who had taken all the details down and waited for me to return... actually reinstated my faith in people... apart from the a**hole who drove into the car of course.. apparently is was a scruffy piece of cr*p Astra that looks like crashing into other cars is a hobby!!... w*nker!!!
I have called the police and gave the details and the insurance company know too... guess I will have to wait and see what happens...
I am massively annoyed that people think this ok to do and tbh I am glad that it was only the bumper and hoping that they can do a smart repair on it rather than take the car to a body shop... if that happens then I am not sure I will pursue it as I really don't want to leave my car with anyone I don't know...
The scuff should mostly polish out but the cracking from the deformation will mean it needs paint..
What is it with people!!!??!!
(rant over).... (ish...)
<tuffty/>
...and the worst bit...
I didn't see it happen but luckily there was a witness who had taken all the details down and waited for me to return... actually reinstated my faith in people... apart from the a**hole who drove into the car of course.. apparently is was a scruffy piece of cr*p Astra that looks like crashing into other cars is a hobby!!... w*nker!!!
I have called the police and gave the details and the insurance company know too... guess I will have to wait and see what happens...
I am massively annoyed that people think this ok to do and tbh I am glad that it was only the bumper and hoping that they can do a smart repair on it rather than take the car to a body shop... if that happens then I am not sure I will pursue it as I really don't want to leave my car with anyone I don't know...
The scuff should mostly polish out but the cracking from the deformation will mean it needs paint..
What is it with people!!!??!!
(rant over).... (ish...)
<tuffty/>
Would you actual fecking believe it!!!... was at our local Sainsbury today on my way to Bill's in the S3... and some a**hole reversed into the bumper!!! ***!!!
...and the worst bit...
I didn't see it happen but luckily there was a witness who had taken all the details down and waited for me to return... actually reinstated my faith in people... apart from the a**hole who drove into the car of course.. apparently is was a scruffy piece of cr*p Astra that looks like crashing into other cars is a hobby!!... w*nker!!!
I have called the police and gave the details and the insurance company know too... guess I will have to wait and see what happens...
I am massively annoyed that people think this ok to do and tbh I am glad that it was only the bumper and hoping that they can do a smart repair on it rather than take the car to a body shop... if that happens then I am not sure I will pursue it as I really don't want to leave my car with anyone I don't know...
The scuff should mostly polish out but the cracking from the deformation will mean it needs paint..
What is it with people!!!??!!
(rant over).... (ish...)
<tuffty/>
Was there a CCTV camera in the car park? This happened to me a few years back and the store kindly sent a copy of the footage to my insurance company.
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Wow what an absolute joke.
Have you considered getting a valet tune in case you do ever have to leave your car with someone you don't know?
Sorry to hear that unfortunate news though..
Have you considered getting a valet tune in case you do ever have to leave your car with someone you don't know?
Sorry to hear that unfortunate news though..
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