Real Life Motorway Mpg 1.6tdi V 2.0tdi

Si666

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Looking to order a A3 S line and thought the 1.6tdi would be good for 500 mile weeks between Wiltshire and Manchester.

I have had a temp BMW 116 Efficiency Dynamic pool car now for just over a week. This is an actual 1.6 diesel and not the normal detuned 2.0 I have been getting 50-60mpg which is not a lot more then my old MK4 Golf GT TDi 130 driven in a similar fashion.

I was just wondering if the 2.0TDi would be more econimical at motorway speeds than the 1.6TDi?
 
My 2.0TDI generally gives 60mpg on motorways... 55 if I put my foot down a bit! 70 is probably possible with careful driving (I got 65mpg when doing a long stretch at 75... if you slowed down to 70 it'd probably go up even more).
 
2.0TDI

Regularly get Ca 50 - 51 mpg on a 200 mile run (DIS gives average mph as 55ish) down to Fokestone (M25/M20) and into France (A16 southbound). 85% is motorway mileage always in dynamic mode and driven at top end of speed limits (as measured by sat nav) and I do tend to enjoy the in gear torque a little bit to much though!!!!

I am sure speedo 70mph in efficency mode would give me 55+mpg (but would be boring...lol)
 
Same with my 1.4 COD ;-)

Much prefer the in-gear torque of the diesel, and it's a lot more suited to towing gliders as well (which I do reasonably often). I had the 1.4 COD for a day once while mine was at the dealers, so I have tried both!
 
The torque from 2.0l diesel maybe but if we get nearer with the cubic capacity then the 1.4 has the same torque but much more power than the 1.6 diesel...
 
Meu Mercedes c200 kompressor não da arranque.aconteceu de repente.peco ajuda
 
I had a 1.6TDI (admittedly an 8P), and I struggled to get it to return anything over 55mpg.
My new 2.0TDI returns over 60mpg on a regular basis, unless I'm in a hurry.
 
With my Golf GTD (184ps 2.0TDI), A recent run down from Newcastle to Leeds (105 miles each way), I got 55mpg down (estimated actual, knowing how optimistic the MFD is) and 58mpg back up, doing 80 all the way and the aircon on, 22C ambient temp. If I drove a saintly 70 all the way, i'd have probably cracked 62mpg. Around the doors (12 mile commute on mixed roads) with a heavy right foot I get about 45mpg in the winter and 49mpg in the summer (again, brim actuals quoted there).
 
2.0TDI

Regularly get Ca 50 - 51 mpg on a 200 mile run (DIS gives average mph as 55ish) down to Fokestone (M25/M20) and into France (A16 southbound). 85% is motorway mileage always in dynamic mode and driven at top end of speed limits (as measured by sat nav) and I do tend to enjoy the in gear torque a little bit to much though!!!!

I am sure speedo 70mph in efficency mode would give me 55+mpg (but would be boring...lol)

Had 100 mile trip round the M25 and up the MI yesterday and as I was not in a rush and traffic was heavish but flowing so decided to stick to around 70mph +/- 2 or 3 (as measured by speedo) and got a fraction over 55mpg in each direction
 
cuke2u do you really get 60mpg +/- 5mpg out of your 1.4 cod? Got mine coming on Monday so cannot wait and if that is realistic mpg I will be well chuffed with those results
Yes on recent run to Suffolk I was getting 65mpg on the a21, travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic, from hastings to the m25 where upon it dropped to about 55mpg when I upped the speed to 80-85mph. Of course this was with the computer so maybe a little less actual. I have seen over 87mpg on my route home from work, about 7 miles, driving very cautiously. When I drove my mk3 focus 1.6 ecoboost over the same route driving the same way it would get 59mpg.
 
Yes on recent run to Suffolk I was getting 65mpg on the a21, travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic, from hastings to the m25 where upon it dropped to about 55mpg when I upped the speed to 80-85mph. Of course this was with the computer so maybe a little less actual. I have seen over 87mpg on my route home from work, about 7 miles, driving very cautiously. When I drove my mk3 focus 1.6 ecoboost over the same route driving the same way it would get 59mpg.

Thanks for the confirmation.....Happy Days!!!! That's about 18mpg better than the GTD that is being handed back on Monday
 
Coming back yesterday on a 100 mile run up the M1 between J13 and J30, my 1.6 TDI averaged 74 MPG which was pretty good. This was in fairly clear traffic driving carefully around 65 - 70 MPH.

The 2.0 and 1.6 can achieve similar MPG figures although the 1.6 will struggle with any hills more than the 2.0. On a flat cruise, the 1.6 figures should always be higher. There isn't a massive difference in the 2 engines though in terms of economy. It more comes down to how you drive, the traffic and any hills etc.
 
I would go with the 2.0ltr , I just had one as a courtesy car and a better drive than my 1.6 TDI , not so much having to change gears etc.

I have done 45k miles in my 1.6TDI now and have averaged 57.3mpg - disappointed given the claimed 75mpg

Chester
 
Don't go on the figures that audi quote, they've already been taken to task for quoting unrealistic figures on the 1.6
 
For motorway miles, doing a constant 70-80mph over at least 30 miles, there isn't a lot of mpg between the 1.6 and 1500ps 2.0TDI units, or even between the 150 and 184ps 2.0TDI units. There's so little in it, i'm surprised VAG haven't gone down the BMW route and has a really low output variant of the 2.0 unit instead of the 1.6 unit for those cars large enough to fit a 2.0 unit in. They used to shoehorn a 2.0SDI into the Polo, so they should be able to get a 2.0TDI unit into everything but the UP/Mii etc.

Do 80mph for 50+ miles in the summer and you should be able to crack 55-58 in either 2.0TDI variant, 60-62 for the 1.6.
At 70mph for 50+ miles in the summer and you should be able to crack 60 in either 2.0TDI variant, 65 for the 1.6.
At 60 mph for 50+ miles in the summer and you should be able to crack 65 in either 2.0TDI variant, 68 for the 1.6.....but who the hell wants to drive like that to save £2 on a tank of fuel?

Knock 5mpg off the above for winter driving.

For 8% savings on fuel for a lot less power, the 1.6 makes no sense to me.
 
Don't go on the figures that audi quote, they've already been taken to task for quoting unrealistic figures on the 1.6

It's not their choice - there's a standardised test that all manufacturers use, and it's unrepresentative. The figures they quote are the ones from this test - if it's not achievable, it's the test that's at fault, not Audi!
 
^ +1

The point of the NEDC test is that *all* manufacturers have an identical test "route" (albeit on rollers), and *all* of them "cheat" (by over inflating tyres, winding back brake calipers etc.).

So it works very well as a relative comparison between cars, not an absolute figure.
 
^ +1

The point of the NEDC test is that *all* manufacturers have an identical test "route" (albeit on rollers), and *all* of them "cheat" (by over inflating tyres, winding back brake calipers etc.).

So it works very well as a relative comparison between cars, not an absolute figure.


They all cheat in the same way for sure, they are allowed to use well run-in examples for testing, are allowed to test at high ambient temps and 24% of the test cycle (time, not distance) has the car at a standstill. It is for this reason that the test cycles saw that miracle "20% gains in fuel economy" with the addition of start-stop technology. That's now 24% of the time with the car off rather than at idle and not using any fuel on the test cycle. In the real world, not many could say that they spend 24% of their commute at a standstill. If you do motorway miles or have minimal stoppages on your journeys then the positive impact of stop-start tech is negligible. We all get cheaper tax discs though (for now).
 
It's not a real world test. It's not meant to be a real world test. It was never meant to be a real world test.

As been said many many times before, do not use it as an absolute mpg figure.

It's merely a simulation, a standardised method of comparatively / relative mpg test between cars.

For this purpose, the NEDC works extremely well.
 
It's not a real world test. It's not meant to be a real world test. It was never meant to be a real world test.

As been said many many times before, do not use it as an absolute mpg figure.

It's merely a simulation, a standardised method of comparatively / relative mpg test between cars.

For this purpose, the NEDC works extremely well.

Many people believed the touted 20% better fuel economy when those claims came in from around 2 years ago - Ford, Audi, VW, Mazda, Toyota etc - they were all at it. More recently they had to backtrack by quoting similar messages on their advertising to "test figures are for comparison purposes only and are not necessarily representative of real driving situations" when people started making serious complaints.

Prior to cars with stop-start and the skew that the test cycle makes to their official figures, you could believe that you could get close to published combined mpg in daily driving, without having to drive like a nun. My last car, a 170TDI Scirocco, had a published combined mpg figure of 53.3mpg. I could match that on my 12 mile commute in the summer with a heavy right foot and beat it by a margin on a longer journey.

The EU could easily come up with a comparison test for mpg that is representative of real driving situations and tighten up the broad testing conditions (keep ambient temp/humidity variants to only a 5C/10% RH range, always use standard fit OEM tyres inflated to the correct recommended pressures for the car, no special/non-standard lubricants/fluids, a narrow range of miles on the car when it is tested etc). These are supposed to be lab condition tests, in pretty much any other scientific test, the lack of control of the variables would be inadmissible.

The NEDC test could be a hell of a lot better than it currently is with no extra technology. The only way you could consider the tests comparable between the marques is to assume that they all push the variables to their allowable limits that will positively influence the final result.
 
Many people believed the touted 20% better fuel economy when those claims came in from around 2 years ago


More fool them.



The EU could easily come up with a comparison test for mpg that is representative of real driving situations and tighten up the broad testing conditions


And they will in time.

The NEDC was designed to replace all the manufacturers own fuel economy figures - which naturally varied wildly, with no standardisation. In this respect, the NEDC is/was an overwhelming success.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than what we had before? Yes

Is it the best thing we have at the moment to compare mpg between different cars? Yes

Can it be improved? Yes
 
It's not their choice - there's a standardised test that all manufacturers use, and it's unrepresentative. The figures they quote are the ones from this test - if it's not achievable, it's the test that's at fault, not Audi!
However the advertising standards agency felt that the way the claims were made by audi were in breach. I know that it is down to the way the tests are conducted, however all manufacturers cheat to get inflated figures as has been stated but there is the possibility the tests will be changing in the future
 
Very explicit in black in white.

It's a comparative / relative figure, rather than an absolute figure.



Audi Brochure:
hDBOtoK.jpg




VCA:
t1Fvgtz.jpg
 
Is it better than we had before? In my personal experience I would say no. I always found VW's (and presumably Audi's - same running gear) published combined mpg figures to be pretty representative of easily achieved mpg in the summer (without having to drive like a nun). Prior to stop-start for the masses (and after 2010), we still had a common testing cycle - it had to be that way after the UK government (and most of the EU) decided taxations (tax disk for us or a first registration tariff for other member states) on CO2 emissions. The car companies exploited the idle part of the established test to make their results far less representative of real driving than they had ever been.
 
Very explicit in black in white.


Audi Brochure:
hDBOtoK.jpg

They are doing that now, the main complaint by the consumer was the use of the unrealistic figures a good year before disclaimers like that were published in brochures and pricelists. When the first Bluemotion models (VAG, and the other marque equivalents) arrived (and stop-start tech was a "special" feature), there were no disclaimers like that.
 
Is it better than we had before?

Yes, as previously if you wanted to buy a 1.6 Mazda, or a 1.6 Peugeot, but didn't know which was going to be more thirsty, there was no comparison system.

Now there is.
 
They are doing that now, the main complaint by the consumer was the use of the unrealistic figures a good year before disclaimers like that were published in brochures and pricelists. When the first Bluemotion models (VAG, and the other marque equivalents) arrived (and stop-start tech was a "special" feature), there were no disclaimers like that.

Anybody who was capable of calculating a discount pre-VAT would have known that it was a standardised test for comparative purposes, not reflective of true mpg.
 
Anybody who was capable of calculating a discount pre-VAT would have known that it was a standardised test for comparative purposes, not reflective of true mpg.

Some people believe what they read, especially when what they read is supposed to be fact and there are no disclaimers made to say otherwise (as was the case up until mid 2013 for most marques). In that situation, with no disclaimers, the law is on the side of the consumer.

For those familiar with the marque and display some degree of marque loyalty, it should be a fair assumption that what they get is proportional to what was published if that is what has always happened. Then all of a sudden they get the same mpg but officially it is 20% more, that proportionality has changed in a way they may not have expected.

To drive a car you don't need to know how an engine works, or how the testing regime is now 20% further skewed from reality just because Audi were kind enough to give you stop-start.

Conclusion: They moved the mpg goalposts 20% away from expectations and didn't tell anyone about any disclaimers until the law (or fear of being sued for false representation) compelled them. The average consumer may have thought that the car companies had made huge strides in real world efficiency improvements

We both know I can do either calculation method for % discount, but prefer the one that is more transparent to the average consumer. It would be preferable if the car companies were generally more transparent all round whether it be mpg or £ saved.
 
t1Fvgtz.jpg



See the bit that says "Comparative Information" ?

That's the purpose, and always has been, of the NEDC.

Most sensible people at the time knew that they were changing the way manufacturers reported mpg, to give the consumer the opportunity to make a comparison. Not to further refine the accuracy or non-accuracy of manufacturers own figures.

In this respect, the NEDC has delivered.

The information was always there, you just had to look.
 
^ Why would most potential car buyers look there rather than believe what Audi, Ford etc were telling them (prior to disclaimers)? We are talking about the average consumer here, what is reasonable to assume for the majority that don't know to look at the finer points of law or government legislation. The NEDC may have delivered, but the car companies didn't deliver what was expected by the average consumer.

You could never count on getting exactly the same as combined figures as no two drivers are the same, but if Mr diehard Focus TDCI knew he'd average 45mpg with official figures of 50mpg combined as it had pretty much always been, then Ford bring out the new stop-start version, boasting 70mpg (and no disclaimers), they'd reasonably consider that they'd probably get 63mpg or thereabouts, and they'd be very wrong on that assumption that Ford allowed them to make.

Pretty much all the mainstream car manufacturers boasted of 20% more fuel economy based engineering advances from no more than 2 years ago. VW/Audi listed lower friction coatings on the internals of the engine, stop-start, brake energy recuperation, weight savings etc. With all those advances, some (many) may have thought that it was plausible that 20% gains could have been gotten from that little list rather than taking advantage of the static time within the established test cycle to give a hugely misleading result far more detached from reality than the old tests (or even the current test, prior to stop-start addition for most cars). Some weight savings (that would give plausible mpg gains) were grossly oversold, such as advertising that the MK7 Golf (as a whole) had lost 100Kg, citing newer body panels (which only contributed to 23Kg loss), rather than mentioning that the lower spec models lost their multilink rear suspension (74Kg lost) and that mid/high models had only lost 25Kg. Misrepresentation/over-egging the pudding, call it what you like.

Prior to the recent disclaimers, car manufacturers went out of their way to mislead the consumer on mpg expectations. They didn't so much move the goal posts so much as they used a smaller faster ball with the same goal posts, when they added stop-start knowing full well how much it would skew the already established simulated driving test cycle and how little it would affect everyday driving.They sold cars on this hugely improved mpg. Just because all the car manufacturers were doing it, it doesn't make Audi or whoever else less wrong. Prior to the disclaimers there was a deliberate misleading of customers as to mpg expectations.
 
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You have completely missed the salient point.

The NEDC is a comparative, not absolute figure.

Not sure what you don't understand about that.

Simples.
 
"NEDC is a repeatable test to allow cars to be compared to one another - nothing more, nothing less. It isn’t a predictor of real-world driving performance and has never claimed to be. '

You have chosen to interpret it as something else.

The point of the test is that pretty much any vehicle is capable of performing it; it is specified so that even the feeblest vehicle can complete it,

There is no other valid comparative test at present.
 
Yeh the point is that you'd compare 2 cars of a similar spec (ie, both with stop-start, or both without). It's useless comparing a non stop-start car with one that has it. It's used to differentiate between models, makes of engine/gearboxes etc, not different specs of car!
 
The point I was aiming to make was that Audi and the others misled the consumers when they first touted their mpg improvements. They took these grossly unachievable figures as a selling point, made out they had made technological improvements to improve mpg by 20% at a time they were not making disclaimers which resulted in some high level European consumer group legal actions which made them all put the disclaimers out. A test on mpg between cars that makes expectations 30% from reality is a poor test indeed, even if it is "fair" to compare between the marques.

No one here is disputing the intentions of the test to make a level playing field, all the car companies are equally miles away from reality. Older tests were more representative of real mpg, even if they weren't completely comparable side by side. The NEDL test is repeatably precise, but not accurate. Older tests with results closer to reality that have method variations are more accurate but less precise than the NEDL tests when using them as a rough measure for your real world expectations.

It is a "uniform" test, but it is a very poorly designed test with wide margins for the "suitable" test variables.

You can ignore the above point all you like. doesn't make it an incorrect point.
 
Yeh the point is that you'd compare 2 cars of a similar spec (ie, both with stop-start, or both without). It's useless comparing a non stop-start car with one that has it. It's used to differentiate between models, makes of engine/gearboxes etc, not different specs of car!

So you end up comparing 2 figures between 2 cars and you can't trust either. The test puts all cars since 2010 on the comparison list. You can compare a 2012 A3 without stop-start to a 2014 model with. In those tests you'll see a 20% improvement for the 2014 model, an unrealistic improvement for the real world. The test hasn't changed since 2010, but the stop-start makes great advantage of the 24% static period when old A3 will be idling and new A3 will have the engine shut off. The car companies made that very comparison when they touted those 20% gains.
 
It keeps all the figures, and you could compare anything to anything else yes, but why would you? I don't think you're using the figures correctly, or even trying to.
 
"NEDC is a repeatable test to allow cars to be compared to one another - nothing more, nothing less. It isn’t a predictor of real-world driving performance and has never claimed to be. '

The car companies chose to allow the published NEDL tests to be interpreted as reality by the general public, by not maknig it clear they did not reflect real driving mpg before they had to issue the disclaimers. One of the biggest selling points they pushed was therefore a massive lie. That undoubtedly wasn't NEDL's intention, but the car companies used those figures in such a way as they could be thought of as gospel.

Since 2010 we've had these "proper" NEDL tests and people trusted them to represent reality because they were official and were close to reality before stop-start was used to enhance the resultant mpg test result.
 
The point I was aiming to make was that Audi and the others misled the consumers when they first touted their mpg improvements.

That doesn't make the NEDC test incorrect or invalid. It does it's job just fine.

The manufacturers chose to misrepresent the figures for their own gains, that's their own undoing, not the NEDC.

And if people were/are gullible enough to believe magic claims of improved economy overnight, that's their prerogative. Caveat Emptor and all that.


Older tests were more representative of real mpg


Not across the board, they weren't. There was no standardised method of measuring this.

Now we do.