Why New Golf R Gets Rated Better Than New S3?

redlinehigh

Registered User
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
104
Reaction score
15
Points
18
Location
Norwich
Hi guys, can anyone explain why most of the mags and reviews rate the golf r as more fun to drive than the s3, i thought they were the excatly the same under pinnings? i find this frustrating and am curious why? If you can put me right it might explain things, still will buy a s3 put it just niggles me as thought it would be rould the other way as its an audi and surley the extra your paying should represent something!!!!!!!:3sadwalk:
 
I think part of it is that the MK7 Golf is a huge step up over the MK6, for Audi it's pretty much business as usual, although the MQB platform improves ride quality and handling for all. Within the VW range, the R is more special than the S3 is in the Audi range. The Golf is better value for money - it is so well equipped (it would cost you about £4k to equip an S3 to the same level).

If you buy an S3 SB/3DR over an R, you're buying it for the badge and the appreciably nicer interior, and you have the choice of the saloon variant on the S3. Some of the extra money is also undoubtedly going on the cost of the extensive use of aluminium in the bodywork.

The press always see the Golf as an affordable "peoples" car. The differences in set-up for mapping, electro-mechanical steering, damping etc are supposed to be negligible (someone who has driven both for an extended period would likely confirm), I always take reviews with a pinch of salt - they never seem truly impartial or particularly fair with their comparisons (like when they criticise a car with standard damping for it's handling, but it's up against a car with active damping technology, or they compare the 0-62 time of a DSG to a similar car with a manual box etc). They're both very good cars in their own right, with very little between them apart from the superficial (standard equipment on one, one of the best interiors you will see on a car under £50k on the other). Although Audi don't seem to put their money where their mouth is with GFV (56% for S3, 60% for the R), I do believe that actual trade-in values for the S3 will be a few grand better, which does go someway to offset the extra equipment you will have to buy - so many cheap lease deals available for the R should soften used values, there will be fewer S3s out there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lewbo
Almost all reviews are based on cars driven at their limit. This is why I take reviews with a huge pich of salt.
We do not all drive around like our pants are on fire searching for that very last inch of performance from our cars. We drive on public roads!
That said however if you watch the Evo S3 sb vs 135 shoot out the reviewer says he has real fun in the S3.
I have yet to come across a head to head review of the S3 vs R in English, so I would guess they're so similar there's no point in comparing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: monkeyhanger
Different suspension, different damping, different geometry.

So different turn in, handling etc.
 
Comparison:

scan-c0ddaebcf0042553064c9c9452366d41-big.jpg






scan-872d75223ae2c88c10f20885f9c4d75c-big.jpg
 
Those differences all make little impact in the real world to the choices we make as to where we put our money. The most that the majority of people do with their performance on the roads and sticking (loosely) to the speed limits so as not to draw attention are the occasional traffic light drag races and in gear acceleration. There will not be a lot in it in most of those situations between the R/S3/M235i in the dry, and I doubt 2% of all the S3/R/M235i bought in the UK ever see any track action. If I was set on an S3 and it was the reviewers conclusion that it handled poorly around the track above 120mph, I wouldn't be in the least bit swayed. There are also tyre variables there to consider on those tests. The S3 and the M235i have the best tyres there. I have Bridgestone Potenzas on my GTD and they are truly ***** unless fully warmed up and in the dry, especially on initial traction when you pull away.
 
Also that group test comparison is a manual S3 vs Auto M235i the ZF auto is sublime and will easily be a big chunk quicker than a manual equivalent.
 
Hi guys, can anyone explain why most of the mags and reviews rate the golf r as more fun to drive than the s3, i thought they were the excatly the same under pinnings? i find this frustrating and am curious why? If you can put me right it might explain things, still will buy a s3 put it just niggles me as thought it would be rould the other way as its an audi and surley the extra your paying should represent something!!!!!!!:3sadwalk:

they are also anti audi as the tools that gave bmw a bad name years ago have moved to audi.

its because they have it in their heads that its cheaper - pretty sure the golf isn't better equipped - i looked into changing my s3 sportback order but didn't because the interior was awful in comparison tot he s2

smaller lower spec screen as standard, no leather, worse interior, no led light option either
 
  • Like
Reactions: swc316
I think part of it is that the MK7 Golf is a huge step up over the MK6, for Audi it's pretty much business as usual, although the MQB platform improves ride quality and handling for all. Within the VW range, the R is more special than the S3 is in the Audi range. The Golf is better value for money - it is so well equipped (it would cost you about £4k to equip an S3 to the same level).

If you buy an S3 SB/3DR over an R, you're buying it for the badge and the appreciably nicer interior, and you have the choice of the saloon variant on the S3. Some of the extra money is also undoubtedly going on the cost of the extensive use of aluminium in the bodywork.

The press always see the Golf as an affordable "peoples" car. The differences in set-up for mapping, electro-mechanical steering, damping etc are supposed to be negligible (someone who has driven both for an extended period would likely confirm), I always take reviews with a pinch of salt - they never seem truly impartial or particularly fair with their comparisons (like when they criticise a car with standard damping for it's handling, but it's up against a car with active damping technology, or they compare the 0-62 time of a DSG to a similar car with a manual box etc). They're both very good cars in their own right, with very little between them apart from the superficial (standard equipment on one, one of the best interiors you will see on a car under £50k on the other). Although Audi don't seem to put their money where their mouth is with GFV (56% for S3, 60% for the R), I do believe that actual trade-in values for the S3 will be a few grand better, which does go someway to offset the extra equipment you will have to buy - so many cheap lease deals available for the R should soften used values, there will be fewer S3s out there.

im pretty sure the golf isn't better equipped - smaller lower spec screen as standard, no leather, worse interior, no led light option either
 
Spec wise it depends on personal preference. I've owned both and each of them has things as standard that the other doesn't.

Personally I would opt for s-line over GT as I would spec things like 18" wheels, xenons and part leather that are standard on the s-line.

I really like the Golf R though and would seriously consider one. I still find it ridiculous that you can't spec 19's on the S3/A3 SB.
 
im pretty sure the golf isn't better equipped - smaller lower spec screen as standard, no leather, worse interior, no led light option either

I meant the practical stuff that is genuinely useful. Audi usually add the style (interior) and VW usually the practical stuff. Plenty can live without leather (Golf), but who in an Audi isn't going to spec most of the optional equipment that is standard on the Golf: park plus (front and back sensors + colour representation of sensor response/obstacles), rain and light pack, auto-dimming rear view mirror, slightly better standard audio unit (with 5.8" colour touch screen - same size as the pop-up audi one), colour MFD/DIS (although VW only seem to use white and red on it for the most part) active cruise control/anti collision radar system, hill hold assist, almost all of the interior lighting on the Golf is LED (save for the boot light, glove box light and visor mirror lights - £1 each for the bulbs on ebay) - the Golf already has all the lower dash, footwell and doors/door handle LED ambient lighting and lit scuff plates under the front doors, that's why there is no LED ambient lighting option on the Golf, we already have it. And there's more -- adaptive Xenons, dipping /folding wing mirror, privacy glass, through load facility. I may have forgotten a few items, but they all tot up to £2710 on the Audi configurator.

I'm really not sure about the leather seats on the S3, I love the look of them (shape of the seats), but cold in the winter and hot in the summer, I don't find leather particularly nice in a car, and VAG leather can sag quite badly on the lower seat bolsters in no time. I will probably pick the S3 for my next car, but it will definitely be for the better interior and not to feel like i'm in the same car twice in a row (as I would feel with the R).
 
Last edited:
suspensions could be changed, anti-roll ball to be as effective as the golf r?
 
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/tt/first-drives/audi-tt-coupe-first-drive-review

Read this load of tosh then. Review of new TT S and they compare it to..........the Golf R! :think:

Really ? If I was looking at buying the new TT S wouldn't I be comparing this against the S3? If highly suspect if I could drop £40k I would not be looking at either the VW brand or an R. Nope I'd be looking in the same brand.

I expect more from Autocar. Automotive journalism at its best.
 
The Golf R is the top of the range VW.
You get no sportier a car across the whole range.
There are many, many cars sportier/quicker than the S3 in the Audi range.
This probably/possibly leads to heightened expectations from the Audi.

That said reviews suggest that VW have the suspension set up far better than Audi do.
The VW is/was also available for a substantially better deal, especially on lease for what is the same car with slightly better suspension set up.
Fairly easy for journo's to pick a winner.

There's not much in it really, had Audi had the same suspension set up as VW, the VW would still likely have been the pick.
 
The Golf R is the top of the range VW.
You get no sportier a car across the whole range.
There are many, many cars sportier/quicker than the S3 in the Audi range.
This probably/possibly leads to heightened expectations from the Audi.

That said reviews suggest that VW have the suspension set up far better than Audi do.
The VW is/was also available for a substantially better deal, especially on lease for what is the same car with slightly better suspension set up.
Fairly easy for journo's to pick a winner.

There's not much in it really, had Audi had the same suspension set up as VW, the VW would still likely have been the pick.

Not that many above this time around in the Audi lineup
 
I would tend to ignore the majority of motor journalists.
Make your own decisions.

Over the test of time, I have only ever found Evo to be there, or thereabouts, with their opinions of cars that I have owned being similar to mine. Most of the others could have been reviewing a different car.

I have no idea why they constantly review the Golf R above the S3.
It's probably just the car VAG group want to give them for whatever reason. On the last generation (when I had a mk6 R) it was the other way round, all the reviews were on the S3.

In summary. Ignore what journos say (who don't have to buy a car / live with it / let their wife use it / sit in traffic jams in it / insure it / sell it etc etc). They just rag it round a track for half a day....then spend a week writing about whether you should buy it or not.
 
Wait and see how it fairs against the RS3
 
Wait and see how it fairs against the RS3
RS3 will be compared to Golf R400 surely?
R400 on paper and on the looks of the prototype will take something special from Audi to better.
 
They announced its production ?
 
I think a bunch of it is down to two major items.
1. That VW do a better job of marketing the Golf with cars to journalists and magazines, folk like Chris Evans for example who writes in the Mail on Sunday.
2. VAG see the bigger sales for VW and that it's more of a peoples car, the GTi has always had the image in the press.

Both good cars and down to buyers choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: voorhees
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/tt/first-drives/audi-tt-coupe-first-drive-review

Read this load of tosh then. Review of new TT S and they compare it to..........the Golf R! :think:

Why not - I'd imagine many people have a set amount to spend and are open to exactly what type of car they get so would consider both.

Really ? If I was looking at buying the new TT S wouldn't I be comparing this against the S3? If highly suspect if I could drop £40k I would not be looking at either the VW brand or an R. Nope I'd be looking in the same brand.

That's your personal perspective and others will have different priorities. Many (myself included) wouldn't be looking at dropping £40k on a car with a four-pot engine so the BMWs have a serious advantage in that regard.
 
Wait and see how it fairs against the RS3

And then we'll pit the RS3 against a Lambo shall we? The S3 is the competition for the Golf R, not the RS3.

Does make me laugh how many on here seem to be trying to come up with any reason/excuse why the R comes out top in a test. Is it just too much to admit that maybe, just maybe the R is actually a better driver's car than the S3?

With the exception of the R8 and B7 RS4, Audi have never produced "proper" driver's cars. They always err on the side of "safe" handling, understeer and are often nose-heavy with fairly lifeless steering. Sure the performance S and RS models are quick but the last word in handling or driving "fun"? Nope.

(Flame away, don't care).
 
I have a very quick car (~ 4 sec 0-60) with the FSR box. I drive safe, it drives safe because it's designed that way, I love it, can get 5 people and baggage in and see 40mpg. Flame away I don't care :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aran383 and J6YAK
In Hockenheim short (2604m)

S3 8v laps on 1:16.80
Golf R laps on 1:15.90.

OH ***, If i knew I could get round dat lap 0.9 seconds faster I for sure woulda bought dat awesum box looking R so I could atleast hav pub bragging rights init! (gutted)
 
I drove both at length (along with a Cupra 280). In my opinion the 2wd Cupra was a riot and such great fun. Sharper and more responsive steering and it cornered better than both the R and S3. Problem was the crap residuals, so whilst it cost less RRP wise, on a PCP deal it was the most expensive. Other downside was the interior build and it felt very dated. Dealer was also not that interested in doing a deal to be honest and appeared to be looking for plebs who would sign such a deal, not someone looking to barter.

Golf R sounded better than both the S3 and 280. It looks more aggressive on the exterior and I really like the DSG box. The handling was slightly better than the S3 but not quite the same throw it about fun as the Cupra. The interior was a let down and £3k to add leather was laughable. Plus the dealer was seriously crap and disinterested. The excuses he came up with against 24hr test drives and the like were classics.

When it came time to test the S3 I was instantly impressed with the interior quality, the understated looks and the outstanding salesman. I had it on a long test drive to Scotland on roads I know so well and whilst it didn't have that absolute fun level of the Cupra or the aggression of the R, I also don't think it is competing to be better at those things. The Audi is more like a luxury edition of the two other cars based on this platform as the interior quality and build is miles ahead of the R and 280 in my opinion. The other advantage was the customer service, the fact they didn't raise an eyebrow to long test drives, didn't pressurise the sale and overall gave the impression of a luxury yet sporty product, that had fantastic residuals so it turned out cheaper than both other cars when spec'd as I want it.

Reviews should be seen as a research tool to help you narrow down a test drive list and nothing more. But lot's of people out there want their hand held and told what to buy, or are sheep and follow trends, sadly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2low4u and veeeight
I have a very quick car (~ 4 sec 0-60) with the FSR box. I drive safe, it drives safe because it's designed that way, I love it, can get 5 people and baggage in and see 40mpg. Flame away I don't care :)

That's great and each to their own. The point is that everyone's requirements and perspective are different. When comparing two cars, it all comes down to what each individual's priorities and requirements are.

As for the S3 and Golf R - I don't doubt that the Audi has many advantages over the Golf and I fully understand why people would choose it over the Golf (I drive an A3 rather than an equivalent Golf after all). It's just when it comes to the issue of performance & handling, it seems that some S3 owners are just totally unwilling to accept that perhaps the Golf R is better in this regard and maybe that's why it comes out ahead in tests. Not "better for the money" or "better for a Golf" but just better full stop.

I'm not saying whether it is or isn't as I've driven neither but, if the established publications say the Golf is better handling or more "fun" then I'll take that at face value and believe what they're saying, not try to come up with any excuse why this might be the case because I can't accept that a "lowly" Golf might be better than my Audi in that regard.

If you've bought an S3 then great, I bet it's an awesome car. If I was in the market for that kind of car I'd probably choose the S3 over the Golf R myself but because I'd be more concerned about the overall package than just the performance aspect. Maybe the R would be a better driver's car but I'd be willing to accept that in return for the other areas in which the Audi beats the Golf.

So not having a dig at those with S3s - you have an awesome car after all - just be a bit more secure in your choice and don't feel "threatened" if the Golf R, or any other competitor, might perform better in some areas :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Engineer, s3_trev and squiretolley
Why not - I'd imagine many people have a set amount to spend and are open to exactly what type of car they get so would consider both.



That's your personal perspective and others will have different priorities. Many (myself included) wouldn't be looking at dropping £40k on a car with a four-pot engine so the BMWs have a serious advantage in that regard.
Think you didn't understand my point.

Its not a natural comparison is it?
 
And then we'll pit the RS3 against a Lambo shall we? The S3 is the competition for the Golf R, not the RS3.

Does make me laugh how many on here seem to be trying to come up with any reason/excuse why the R comes out top in a test. Is it just too much to admit that maybe, just maybe the R is actually a better driver's car than the S3?

With the exception of the R8 and B7 RS4, Audi have never produced "proper" driver's cars. They always err on the side of "safe" handling, understeer and are often nose-heavy with fairly lifeless steering. Sure the performance S and RS models are quick but the last word in handling or driving "fun"? Nope.

(Flame away, don't care).
The Mrs not sort you out this morning?

Lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: monopole
I agree about reviews I find them frankly boring, I've had many a car that's been slated by the press for various reason e.g. My old mazda MPS was a torque steer monster that would throw you into the first hedge, yet I found it more than capable of holding its power under control.
I will openly admit Audi's arnt famed for there handling and that the golf R will handle better when pushing at 10/10ths of its potential but let's be honest who on the open road can and should push a car to its absolute limit.
Also all the golf lovers are making my S3 a rarer sight :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ben Daniel Grant, Pulp84 and monopole
Regardless of what the self proclaimed experts say, also known as motoring journalists, I still prefer the S3 to the Golf R. The S3 is more 'premium' :cool::cool::cool:
The Golf R may have a lot of kit on it, but this type of £30k car without leather? Shocking! :keule:
& then if you want leather, they want minimum £1700 for it :keule::keule:
& don't say you would prefer cloth seats anyway all you Golf R lovers :laugh: :kissmyrings:
 
Funny how folk on this forum slag off car reviews when its the Golf R.....

...... but love them when its the S3......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vertigo1 and steeve
Funny how folk on this forum slag off car reviews when its the Golf R.....

...... but love them when its the S3......
Not slagging the Golf R off veeeight. I am sure it is a very capable car. I just don't believe everything I read in the motoring press

Anyway, Golf R doesn't come in the saloon version, so no good for me anyway :)
 
I too prefer cloth, if there was a no cost option on the S3 I would have gone cloth, I know that sounds barking but its personal preference.
Half leather is the perfect choice for me.

As far as car reviews go, they are interesting to read and provide a few pointers when researching but surely we are all adult enough to still have the capacity for making our own choices. Testers reviews are just as personal as the views of the general public.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vertigo1
Funny how folk on this forum slag off car reviews when its the Golf R.....

...... but love them when its the S3......
try going onto the Aus Golf forum and suggest that the S3 might be a better choice than a Golf R and see the reaction you get.

I recently went to a VW drive experience day with both the Golf R and GTI PP and got to do some fast laps with both. The R was felt better balanced than the GTI PP in the faster open corners and the R was about 5km/h faster down the main straight.

The S3 I only drove on public streets, so can't directly compare the outright handling with the R, but did drive it on some local tight winding roads I know and the car felt balanced and neutral in its cornering attitude.

As in Australia, a Golf R with leather and DSG is only about $4k cheaper than a S3 (which come quite well specced as standard) the decision came down to other aspects rather than performance, such as much nicer interior, for me a better seating position and a few other items........

B
 
These aren't even the best driving hot hatches we are discussing here.
For driving the Golf appears to be slightly better set up than the S3, but there are two/possibly three that are better than both of these VAG efforts.

Just be happy with what you have chosen and forget about the alternatives. If it's the S3 you have to accept that for sheer driving involvement and excitement it's likely not even in the top three.

Or if you aren't happy just change it out for something better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vertigo1