Tayyib's 'bgk' Hybrid S3 8l

Tayyib · Aug 21, 2014

Hi people newbie here, I've finally joined up after owning my S3 for 20months.

It's been an amazing car until problems arised with the headgasket, which has eventually brought the car to the spec it is now.

Been on audi-sport plenty of times for help though.
This is the first build thread I've ever done so bare with me.
Jan 2013 I came from the japworld to the audi scene.

Spec:
Revo stage one map
Forge 007p
Front mount intercooler
Lowered 25-30mm

Tayyib · Aug 22, 2014

Since then she's had the following:
*DM rifle drilled forged rods
*Fully rebuilt APX cylinder head
*Audi oil pump
*Gates racing timing belt kit
*goatze piston rings
*Relentless x-pro4 manifold
*Relentless decat/downpipe
*Pec big end bearings
*Elring Headgasket
*BGK stage 4 hybrid turbo
*Brembo discs, ebc yellow stuff pads & hel braided lines
*Polybushed front wishbones
*Polybushed dogbone
*All Intercooler pipe work replaced with solid piping for better flow and less chances boost leaks.
* customised milltek cat-back. (Resonator removed)
* fk coilovers
* 3" tip (r-tech)
* bores honed and notched
* crankshaft polished
Probably missed loads.
Currently she is awaiting a new clutch/flywheel as the slave cylinder has failed.

With little brothers R32

Old cracked cylinder head

Freshly rebuilt with new valve guides and new valve stem seals

Vvt transferred to apx head

As you can see cylinder one was where the head had cracked and caused the headgasket and misfiring issues.

Goodies,

Sump off,

She lived again, for a few weeks lol.

Tayyib · Aug 22, 2014

More goodies,

@ BGK tuning round 2

Old vs new comparison.

F*cked turbo,

Casually sat under the car whilst the exhaust was modified.

And finally some of how she currently sits awaiting her new clutch and then mapping @ unicorn motor developments.

Thanks for reading/viewing my build thread. Any input would be appreciated.
The majority of the work carried out on my car was done @ BGK Tuning in Leeds. Top lads and treat your car like it's their own pride and joy.
Thanks

beachbuggy · Aug 22, 2014

Looking at those dm rods aren't they ones causing issues? Ie groove and oil hole in the top? I'm sure, correct me if I'm wrong but they'll end up knocking?

Any idea what spec Brad decided on with the stage 4 hybrid?

Tayyib · Aug 22, 2014

I'll get some more details and pics of the turbo, the rods are the rifle drilled dm ones.
Brad had a good argument with issam and has it in writing from him that if they do mess up issam's going to cover the cost of labour and parts. Fingers crossed though i've done 3500 miles.
Small end bushes needed machine work on two of the rods I think, which brad did himself eventually.

badger5 · Aug 22, 2014

that design of rod, is flawed whilst the top hole and groove feed it the oil to then squirt out of the top of the piston, not lubing the pin it was destined for....

listen out for small end rattles in 2-3k miles

INA · Aug 22, 2014

Was just sent this link:

beachbuggy said:
Looking at those dm rods aren't they ones causing issues?

singular = Issue
plural = issues

Connecting rod set supplied to Simon J. Wonker (reworked Via Benjamen Parsons) produced a rod knock issue (singular)
This was posted by Simon a few weeks after the discovery was made:
"Simon J WorkerJust an update. Rods have been sent away for re bushing. Courtesy of Issam Abed. On closer inspection it seemed that the pins where quite worn. Whether they where worn from the start or the pops and bangs have damaged them who knows. But I must say the DM forged rod bushes don't look bad at all compared to the pin itself"
The wrist pin bushings are made from AMPCO45 material . You can read more on the material here:
http://www.ampcometal.com/common/datasheets/us/A45_EX_E_US.pdf

Since then a few band wagoners have come forward and laid blame on a product we supply as being the cause and have since retracted the statements.
1 failure (which was not at fault) != countless.

3/4 of the VAG communtiy in the UK have been running these rods with kits supplied by us but I don't believe that bad press = bad as it resulted in more customers coming forward to purchase our kits.

badger5 said:
listen out for small end rattles in 2-3k miles

He has done 3500....

badger5 said:
that design of rod, is flawed whilst the top hole and groove feed it the oil to then squirt out of the top of the piston, not lubing the pin it was destined for....

As always Bill , making friends. You have been called out twice on the same matter and you choose to regurgitate the same drivel time and time again for Badger5 gain (i.e. buy your products not someone elses).
Sorry but you have 0 basis or ground to make a statement pertaining to the design. I will not be responding to this any further. Brad /Tarriq and the lot can take over as with anyone who has ever purchased directly or indirectly from us can attest that I stand behind my customers and the products we supply them.

INA · Aug 22, 2014

Also ,
Isn't it rather rude that instead of commending the lad on a stellar build , that people choose to add negative comments.
:thumbsup:

m19lte · Aug 22, 2014

Great build tayyib hope your enjoying it, I've had the DM forge kit from INA fitted for around 16month and covered around 5-6k mile's and had no issues so far.
If I remember rightly didn't simon have other issue's in the end ? Ie dodgy crank and as issam says worn pin's ?

<tuffty/> · Aug 22, 2014

INA said:
As always Bill , making friends. You have been called out twice on the same matter and you choose to regurgitate the same drivel time and time again for Badger5 gain (i.e. buy your products not someone elses).

I don't see anywhere on this thread where Bill has promoted buying products from him over anyone elses

<tuffty/>

badger5 · Aug 23, 2014

INA said:
Was just sent this link:

singular = Issue
plural = issues

Connecting rod set supplied to Simon J. Wonker (reworked Via Benjamen Parsons) produced a rod knock issue (singular)
This was posted by Simon a few weeks after the discovery was made:
"Simon J WorkerJust an update. Rods have been sent away for re bushing. Courtesy of Issam Abed. On closer inspection it seemed that the pins where quite worn. Whether they where worn from the start or the pops and bangs have damaged them who knows. But I must say the DM forged rod bushes don't look bad at all compared to the pin itself"
The wrist pin bushings are made from AMPCO45 material . You can read more on the material here:
http://www.ampcometal.com/common/datasheets/us/A45_EX_E_US.pdf

Since then a few band wagoners have come forward and laid blame on a product we supply as being the cause and have since retracted the statements.
1 failure (which was not at fault) != countless.

3/4 of the VAG communtiy in the UK have been running these rods with kits supplied by us but I don't believe that bad press = bad as it resulted in more customers coming forward to purchase our kits.

He has done 3500....

As always Bill , making friends. You have been called out twice on the same matter and you choose to regurgitate the same drivel time and time again for Badger5 gain (i.e. buy your products not someone elses).
Sorry but you have 0 basis or ground to make a statement pertaining to the design. I will not be responding to this any further. Brad /Tarriq and the lot can take over as with anyone who has ever purchased directly or indirectly from us can attest that I stand behind my customers and the products we supply them.

Your not a friend.. You are quite the opposite.

That design of small end lube with oil groove and hole at the top of the rod is flawed..
Its why there is higher wear rates on those parts, be it bush or pin.. In the case of amco bronze its harder than the pin and wont wear but whilst inadequate lube is present, something has to wear, in workers example, the pins wore. Factory rods run 100k-150k miles rattle free with their design... Why add an exit hole out of the top of the rod?? Loosing the oil pressure feed past the pin? Nutts.

Lack of pressure lube to the small end on this design of rod is the design flaw..
Sit in denial issam... Its you who has to deal with the come backs..

The design flaw remains a flaw.
ask your fave uk engine builder for his thoughts on the design

Its been discussed many times as a poor design, and those rods which have suffered high wear on small end have had regular phosphor bronze bushes inserted instead of the hard Amco material (and the exit hole removed) - These mods have been done for a reason of course! Keep pressure lube in small end to "lubricate" the bush & pin.

And as for your usual and very predictable BS blaming me for anything issam, its you who sell these not me.
I have not said DM Rods (opps I accidently might have said it now), but any rods which have this style of small end lube.. ZRP rods also have the same design & are equally as flawed. Folks buying rifle drilled rods because they want to preserve the Factory Good design of small end pressure lube will not get adequate small end lube from this design. End Of.

I have'nt promoted anything here... I am entitled too as I am an Advertiser on here, but that was never said and as usual you make up words you think I have said... Read it again fella.. You obviously cannot read clearly.

And its not singular is it... In denial are we?
Want me to name a few cars all with reworked rods following high DM rod small end wear?
I dont make crap up like you enjoy doing.

INA.. If you believe this rod design is sound and the prospective comebacks are going to boomerang back at you.
Good luck..

16Klappe · Aug 23, 2014

Tayyib · Aug 23, 2014

Thank you pete, its been a costly build but its nearly there now.
Also a little update, new clutch has arrived, using a stage 3 competition clutch. Waiting on the single mass flywheel and slave cylinder to arrive now.

16Klappe · Aug 23, 2014

Is that a CG Motorsport clutch?

Excellent customer service from them, I am incredibly happy with mine.

Tayyib · Aug 23, 2014

Yeah that's good to hear. Will find out in due time what it's like.

INA · Aug 23, 2014

badger5 said:
its you who sell these not me.

Correct
Focus on the products YOU supply customers and let us focus on the products WE supply customers.
I did not read the rest of your post because if it held any weight then we would not continuously be supplying kits.
If there is a problem between a customer of INA and INA then as we always do , they will be taken care of.

16Klappe · Aug 23, 2014

But you supply a product which Bill has to work with to supply his product...

Why don't you use the genuine feedback that he has on the design and pass it to the production and research teams to improve your product? Or are you so far up your own **** that you couldn't find your way out and into the real world to benefit from his experience?

Is that a rifle drilled fishing rod you're using Issam? It seems most effective.

badger5 · Aug 23, 2014

INA said:
Correct
Focus on the products YOU supply customers and let us focus on the products WE supply customers.
I did not read the rest of your post because if it held any weight then we would not continuously be supplying kits.
If there is a problem between a customer of INA and INA then as we always do , they will be taken care of.

You dont get to tell me what to do or what I should like issam..

The issue of design is obvious. You at no point comment as to the design flaw. Qty of sales is nothing to do with quality of design or not.
You confuse qty with quality

You know its an issue bubbling away, you know the reworked rod bushes done on the DMs in the UK were "Without" the top hole. Reason for why is that remedies the issue of pressure fed oil feeding the wrist pin and bush.

I hope you/DM reconsider the design for your sakes. The flaw is obvious and confirmed by many an engineer/engine builder, including your uk "favourite" man.. Ignoring it is just denial head in the sand

Enjoy the customer complains which will grow over time.

badger5 · Aug 23, 2014

16Klappe said:
But you supply a product which Bill has to work with to supply his product...

Actually dude: No I dont Jardo. I have NOTHING at all to do with ina nor any of his products... Nor ever will. Not a man/company I would ever deal with.

I see cars which come in here have them, and when they have small end rattle then the repair/rework commences... As has happened very recently on an LCR as well as ongoing on marks a4.

Issam has sent some items to assist marks a4 build so he can stand by his customers, (especially when the issues spread onto facebook, titernet etc as is the way of the world.)

Enough of this.
The ops thread at the end of the day.

At least he's fitted rods so its not going to break etc... Its strong bottom end now.

Turn up the power now.

16Klappe · Aug 23, 2014

Of cause; I never for a second was implying you did. (Sorry if it reads that way)

But you're mapping customers cars which have these rods fitted and people who seek advice from you are fitting them to their engines. My point was more that once people have fitted these rods; they're asking for your services to make the most of them. (Unless you're saying no as a blanket response to anybody with this rod design, then I'm way off the mark.)

I wouldn't buy a bean from INA, mainly because of the attitude I see on Facebook and forums. Even more so when I see reputable tuners who have built their name on hard facts and development research (not just you) giving evidence of their poor design which is easily understood even with the most basic of mechanical knowledge. I don't blame you for not wanting to get involved.

"Look after your character and your reputation will look after you."

m19lte · Aug 23, 2014

You will enjoy it once done tayyib trust me it'll be worth it ;-)

16klappe...... How long have u been running cg clutch ? And is it the one pictured ? I'm burying my head atm knowing all this extra power I'm going to need an uprated clutch soon enough, not sure which one to go for, but I must say the cg stuff looks appealing

16Klappe · Aug 23, 2014

I have the stage 2 clutch and uprated 30% pressure plate on a DMF.

Not the one pictured.

But the guys in the phone REALLY knew their stuff seems like they are a great company.

INA · Aug 24, 2014

badger5 said:
Not a man/company I would ever deal with..

You speak as though you have authority. Here are the facts , you did not have a choice in the matter as we ceased business with you due to your lack of professionalism.
Now back to being ignored.

16Klappe said:
But you supply a product which Bill has to work with to supply his product...

He actually does not have to do anything with our products as he is not an authorised distributor of our products. The rest is a mute point.

16Klappe said:
Even more so when I see reputable tuners who have built their name on hard facts and development research (not just you) giving evidence of their poor design

Let these reputable tuners who have purchased a product directly from us that failed come forward. So far only 1 has come forward and it was by association , not direct and the end result was not found to be our fault.

16Klappe said:
Why don't you use the genuine feedback that he has on the design and pass it to the production and research teams to improve your product?

Unfortunately it is not Genuine feedback and the information above was passed onto him by a 3rd party (just like most of the information he posts). The design is not flawed. If it was flawed , oil pressure warning light in the dash would have come on at start up. The channel thickness is in 0.0X" .If the design was flawed it would not have been used in the past by others in the industry.

The individual above has NO PROBLEMS naming and shaming so again :
1. Simon J Wonker (assisted by Ben Parsons) - taken care of by us
2. Mark White - An individual that helps out @ Badger5 purchased connecting rods through someone else (not directly from us) and when his issue arose , we had the entire rotating assembly shipped to JNL Racing where the determined fault of failure had NOTHING to do with the connecting rods. In any case Mark came forward , offered apologies and we did our best to help him by supplying him with parts.

we defend the product - we get slagged
we keep quiet - the product still gets slagged.
we repeat information posted in the past - the product gets slagged and we get slagged for doing so
customer cars come in for a "noise" to "reputable shop" - assumption is made that it is from the connecting rods and the product get slagged.
we rebuttle a competitor slagging our product - we get told about advertiser privlages , our attitude is deemed "poor" and we are slagged off.

Help us understand where exactly are we going wrong? Will I have to read about connecting rods were the reason your wheel bearings failed? Where does this stop?
1 customer that had an issue and any other customers that have issues are being taken care of.

Again to recap. Same design , same dimensions , same connecting rod purchased from the same company being sold since 2009. Why all of a sudden now in 2014 after 4+ years the design is "flawed". If you were in our shoes you would have a poor attitude as well.

badger5 · Aug 24, 2014

You twist and weazle your words as usual, and typical for you & others of your 'ilk'
The bush/pin wear is prevalent on this style of rod..

Marks bush wear whilst not the cause of the valve drop was an independant wear issue from the rod small end design / END
Same as on jonp(ex jamesL) motor, both rebushed by JP, and both bushed WITHOUT the top hole and NOT from Amco Bronze material.. Wonder why? eh? Ask your favourite engine builder in the uk.. It was done for a reason, which is the EXACT SAME REASON as I say this "style of rod" is not one I would advise. Simple to understand.. but not so much when you sell qy and are liable to the customer come backs in due course. Review the rod design... Its in both yours and DMs interest. Rebushed without the top hole says it all.

Continue to live in denial.. I could'nt care less about you, the facts remains the lube design on this style of rod is flawed and does not provide adequate, nor even factory levels of small end lubrication. DM is'nt the only rod of this design, ZRP also have the same design.. Neither are ones which I would recommend to anyone for the already overstated reasons provided. Live in la la land issam.. You reap what you sew. Your "un" professionalism is legendary, and dont for one second think you terminated anything, lmAo... I would not deal with you, Ever.

Wheel bearings failed? What on earth are you on about......... Irrelevance and evasion as usual from you.

INA · Aug 24, 2014

badger5 said:
Its in both yours and DMs interest.

Will do,
thank you for your concern. Now we are done here for now so let the lads have fun with the thread without it getting soiled.
Cheers

daz-20vt · Aug 24, 2014

without it getting soiled???? i think its too late for that if were honest!!!
you lot have taken the p**s here tbh. op managed to get 3 updates up before you lot ruined his thread. which is now upto 25!! mostly bitchin about rods!!
what a joke. keep your girly arguement on your own fb pages!!!

Tayyib great progress man really looking forward to your results and opinion on your current set up!!

badger5 · Aug 28, 2014

Daz, ignore advise and facts at your peril, the ops and OTHERs read these pages, so although unfortunate for this poster to see this exchange, the Rod designs where different are VERY relevant to others choosing what to do with their builds..

Girly arguement it was not.

The "joke" would be to say nothing and ignore the very relevant issue on some rod designs.

daz-20vt · Aug 28, 2014

not disputing the advice given bill. just the extent. this is a build thread and look what it turned into
also he has fitted the rods now. so is there any point to replace now? (as much a question as a statement)
if he has issue he will need to change of course but he MAY be ok.

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