8V S3 Tuning Thread
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Well, the more probable question/answer is how does the Dyno know what AFR the Engine ECU is running 
The AFR under full throttle will not be 14.7, as said will be more like 12.5-13.0 (0.85-0.88 lambda thereabouts) When tuned this richens up a bit primarily for cooling, my TTRS when tuned was pegged at 0.82 lambda (0.82 x 14.7 = 12.05 AFR) Some however went crazy with the boost and had to richen up quite a bit to cool the EGT's with lambda's in the mid 0.7's. All cars will be the same.
Anyway, reference the turbos, yes, apparently APR have had a few blow on them in Germany with the older part number. (Last digit in serial number is N) This has apparently changed to last digit A but my car is a MY15 car built February 2014, delivered mid March and mine has the N digit in it also, so really not sure how much truth there is in this 'turbo re-design'. If it's a known problem then Audi should change it no questions asked, however, if we are running around with remapped ECU's with a TD1 flag showing, we will be screwed. The tuners really need to get around this ASAP, i'll not be opting for a remap until this is sorted especially if the turbos are likely to go.
Anyway, reference the turbos, yes, apparently APR have had a few blow on them in Germany with the older part number. (Last digit in serial number is N) This has apparently changed to last digit A but my car is a MY15 car built February 2014, delivered mid March and mine has the N digit in it also, so really not sure how much truth there is in this 'turbo re-design'. If it's a known problem then Audi should change it no questions asked, however, if we are running around with remapped ECU's with a TD1 flag showing, we will be screwed. The tuners really need to get around this ASAP, i'll not be opting for a remap until this is sorted especially if the turbos are likely to go.
Well, the more probable question/answer is how does the Dyno know what AFR the Engine ECU is running
Probe up the exhaust back end measures lambda value. AFR is just lambda x 14.7
Any idea what boost they were running at to cause the turbo to blow? Stock runs at 1.2bar max, so around 18psi. Shark box runs at 1.5bar max, so 22psi. I would think that to be an acceptable range of the turbo.
I wouldn't have thought the tuning box would have been that high to be fair, my thinking was along the lines of 1.1 standard vs 1.3-1.35 on a tuning box and then remaps for 1.45-1.55bar. Tuning boxes a little risky to go to 1.5 bar especially if there are nuggets out there sticking in cheap supermarket fuel, these boxes are pegged back a few notches for a 'generic market' but I have not yet logged in VCDS so can't confirm. Would be surprised though if these boxes were running 1.5bar, how do you know if its not logged in VCDS?? My impression is that the readings in VCDS will see stock values (ECU is being fooled) For example, ECU is asking for stock 1.1 bar, the turbo is producing that 1.1 bar, however, the tuning box fools the ECU into believing its only producing 0.9 bar so the turbo is forced to work harder to achieve that 1.1 bar (Now in reality producing 1.3) Pretty sh*t way of doing it as boost is only one piece of the puzzle.
I am told that the failure is down to the nut that holds the compressor wheel. No mention of boost but with an APR tune, would imagine around 1.5 bar
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My MTM Cantronic runs 22.5psi and spikes above that on intial throttle stab. I had a boost guage temporarily fitted for a short period but I couldnt find a suitable place to mount it and it looked a bit Kev-ish!
I'm not sure how it works, but I was told it fully intergrates with the factory ECU, even the plugs and pins are exactly the same. It definately runs richer as my blackened exhaust tips testify! It used to take a couple of weeks to blacken them, now it only takes a few days. Black is better anyway ha!
I'm not sure how it works, but I was told it fully intergrates with the factory ECU, even the plugs and pins are exactly the same. It definately runs richer as my blackened exhaust tips testify! It used to take a couple of weeks to blacken them, now it only takes a few days. Black is better anyway ha!
In which case, if it is indeed giving a value based on a probe up the exhaust, it is a calculated Lambda value from the gasses, at the point of exit at tailpipe post catalytic converter(s). In no way does this represent the true Lambda/AFR in the combustion chamber!
(although technically gas balance in = gas balance out)
The other (main) reason for running AFR between 12.5 ish to 13 under WOT (apart from the cooler combustion) is that Max Power is developed (engine and other factors dependent) between Lambda 0.85 to 0.89 ish (but higher HC's).
Max Efficiency (complete combustion) is Lambda 1 of course, and target for Closed Loop systems.
Best fuel consumption is Lambda greater than 1, but then you start running into problems with high EGTs and NOx formation.
Max Efficiency (complete combustion) is Lambda 1 of course, and target for Closed Loop systems.
Best fuel consumption is Lambda greater than 1, but then you start running into problems with high EGTs and NOx formation.
This is incredibly technical now. I think I will have to read up on tuning just to understand what all this means 
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That's the thing isn't it....upping the boost amongst other things,means pushing the turbo closer to the limits of it's map,and in doing so pushes the rotational speeds and loadings.
All of the 8P members are aware of how hard the old K04 was being pushed to get to 360-380bhp,although it was actually reliable enough at that.
I'm not surprised that the tuner was perhaps a bit shy in releasing that info,but it's the price of pushing a bit too hard,and of course we don't know anything like EGT's,ignition timing etc etc.
Based on my calculations, and based on the fact that the stock S3 runs max 1.2 bar, and that the Shark box runs 1.5 bar (from what I have been told by them), that puts max psi at 22. Very similar to the MTM box, and I'm sure the ABT box, and the....I highly doubt any of the piggyback boxes are reinventing the wheel so to say.
22psi doesn't sound that bad to me!
22psi doesn't sound that bad to me!
I'm wondering how accurate that would be, given the S3 has quad tips, with two of them closed unless WOT is happening. I guess if you probe the inside tips, but once the outer tips open, the flow would change, no?
Early adoptees of all these tuning boxes face some problems as none of these tuning boxes are NOT precise enough nor do they work in a similar fashion on all cars , As they say they learn to shave on someone elses face .
After a couple months I had my S3, the turbo died. "kept stalling" was what audi said. Maybe the bearings. That was when my car was standard. The turbo was replaced, now been running the DTUK box for a while and no issues what so ever. Apparently it was the second S3 Aberdeen Audi had back with this issue.
just for information as I think my s3 is one with "high" km as it is just 6months old.
at 11000km I put an MTM Box.
Now counting 29.000km and still ok.
hope my turbo is ok.
theorically MTM boosts from 1.2 to 1.35 and is not the most agressive box.
regards.
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Frankly,I'd be amazed if that particular turbo could sustain 2bar,as opposed to occasional peaks.
If your car was built in February 2014, then you definitely do not have an MY15 car.
This sounds quite ambitious, surely it can't be right?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsMwbwspLKk&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsMwbwspLKk&feature=youtu.be
Why not? And its not ambitious either, those times will have be been done using a racelogic box at what looks like brunters.
Also Pro Alloy are looking for an S3 to develop there intercooler, there based down south so that rules me out if theres any takers? Just send them an email or give them a bell Pro Alloy Motorsport - Specialist alloy components - Contact Us
pat15312
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Just spoke to Revo. They are looking to release the stage 1 map within the next couple of weeks!
Their Mk7 Golf R ran a 12.1 second 1/4 mile at the weekend with a Stage 1 map and Revo intake. They reckon they could get into the 11's!
Just found this:
20% discount off Revo maps until 09/08/14
So if the S3 map is £499 when it gets released, you could get it at a discounted price of £399.
Add an SPS box for £120 and you can change it back to stock, 3 performance modes, valet mode (restricts boost and limits rpm to 3000) and also has an anti-theft setting (allows the engine to start but throttle is disabled).
Also, if/when you want to go up to Stage 2, the new map will only cost £50.
20% discount off Revo maps until 09/08/14
So if the S3 map is £499 when it gets released, you could get it at a discounted price of £399.
Add an SPS box for £120 and you can change it back to stock, 3 performance modes, valet mode (restricts boost and limits rpm to 3000) and also has an anti-theft setting (allows the engine to start but throttle is disabled).
Also, if/when you want to go up to Stage 2, the new map will only cost £50.
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Vtec Abuser
Registered User
Just found this:
20% discount off Revo maps until 09/08/14
So if the S3 map is £499 when it gets released, you could get it at a discounted price of £399.
Add an SPS box for £120 and you can change it back to stock, 3 performance modes, valet mode (restricts boost and limits rpm to 3000) and also has an anti-theft setting (allows the engine to start but throttle is disabled).
Also, if/when you want to go up to Stage 2, the new map will only cost £50.
I wouldn't get too excited about that mate...
For a start I doubt it will be anywhere near £499 for the new software. Plus I wouldn't think the previous SPS switch will be compatible and if there is a new version it will no doubt be more £'s..
Hat's off on the results on the vid and at the weekend. I heard it was a 12.2?
What's not to get excited about? A proper remap with a discount of 20%. Granted the selling price is TBC but when your only other options are tuning boxes (DTUK at £475 and MTM at £1500) it's good to have another option on the market.
Why would the current SPS unit not work?
Why would the current SPS unit not work?
Vtec Abuser
Registered User
Sorry mate, I didn't mean that the new software wasn't an exciting proposition (as it clearly is - so long as they make it undetectable). I just meant the rest might not be as you mentioned. 20% is obviously helpful too 
They say the software is released in 30 days and the offer finishes in 32 days. Mmmmm, I wonder if the release is 3 days late? ha ha
The first SPS switch wasn't compatible for the TFSI, so I would assume the latest software will require a new version. I'm most probably wrong though.. ha
They say the software is released in 30 days and the offer finishes in 32 days. Mmmmm, I wonder if the release is 3 days late? ha ha
The first SPS switch wasn't compatible for the TFSI, so I would assume the latest software will require a new version. I'm most probably wrong though.. ha
Is that likely? I thought that there was a flag that was set if custom software was loaded to the ECU?
We deal with a remapper in Belgium and the latest TDis have recently been cracked.. The Ecu has to be removed and flashed and the dealer will see a TD1 code unless the Ecu is reflashed back to standard (this cane be done remotely it has to go back to source) I'd imagine the latest TFSI tuning options are going to be of a similar vein too ..
That's my understanding from speaking to Revo as well. You would need to go back to a Revo dealer to have the software removed before going to Audi for a service or warranty work for example and then get it flashed back on afterwards.
I think this TD1 code may go far deeper than just warranty concerns.
How about financing concerns? I suspect the majority buy these cars with finance and a GFV Audi buy back after a certain period. Will Audi buy back with a TD1 flag? I wouldn't have thought so personally.
As for the ''couple of weeks'' thing, how long have we been hearing that line? I'll be surprised if we have anything in a couple of months.
How about financing concerns? I suspect the majority buy these cars with finance and a GFV Audi buy back after a certain period. Will Audi buy back with a TD1 flag? I wouldn't have thought so personally.
As for the ''couple of weeks'' thing, how long have we been hearing that line? I'll be surprised if we have anything in a couple of months.
And if we have to go back to a revo dealer for a stock reflash to get rid of the code for servicing and warranty work, how about stage 2 cars that will automatically flash up an ECU light if the stock software is loaded onto a car with no cats. Do we then need to replace our exhaust systems too before warranty and servicing work?
Unfortunately, it may look like piggyback ecu is the only 'safe' way. Perhaps a 2nd Audi ECU loaded with software and a switch capability between ECU1 and ECU2 or at least the ability for the user to swap them over easily enough but then that route is mega expensive, how much is a stock Audi ECU coded correctly for the car?
As above though, its not the warranty aspect that concerns me, its the finance agreement part when trying to hand the car back with a TD1 code.
Unfortunately, it may look like piggyback ecu is the only 'safe' way. Perhaps a 2nd Audi ECU loaded with software and a switch capability between ECU1 and ECU2 or at least the ability for the user to swap them over easily enough but then that route is mega expensive, how much is a stock Audi ECU coded correctly for the car?
As above though, its not the warranty aspect that concerns me, its the finance agreement part when trying to hand the car back with a TD1 code.
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Don't shoot the messenger... I'm just passing on what Revo said to me yesterday. They have successfully tested the Mk7 Golf R publicly at GTI Inters, they are getting their own, brand new Audi S3 saloon this week to test the software on that. As long as there are no issues with transferring the map from Golf R to S3, then they are confident it will be released by the end of the month.
It's worthwhile picking up the phone and speaking to these guys... they are very informative and enthusiastic about their product.
