S3 Turbo Kits? Apart from IHI - What is there?

Glad to see others are being tempted - the conversion to a modern big turbo really makes sense in my opinion.

Some comments having read the thread:

Reliability - I have heard so many differrent stories about reliability, some have said that over 240BHP is pushing the AJL 1.8T, all I can go on is personal experience, running 320 for over a year and I have had no problems to date - I am going to get the internals strengthened for peace of mind and for more power but I think 320 is fine. As for torque I think my set up is fine at the 270-280 mark but don't feel I want to go much higher on the standard setup; this is mainly because I feel that the car is fast enough for the balance to be right at that level - once the stronger internals are fitted I will be looking for more but only because the balance will have shifted then and I will be working with better safety margins. I have only heard stories of Valve issues but fail to see how HP would cause problems in this area, as has been mentioned above I think this is due to engine speed which is not something that I personally feel needs to be increased but that is personal taste.

Re Lag - Again a personal thing but I am more than happy with my setup, I am getting positive boost from 2500 (if not lower) and am getting 20psi (1.36bar) at 3000-3100rpm (boost then stays level till the red line). Getting the exhaust swapped out for a full 3" system helped response too, certainly wouldn't recommend the standard system with a big turbo. Finally - the difference that my messing around with intake pipe routing made on the turbo response was amazing, even just replacing the kinked pipe that leads into the throttle body on the A4 with a straight pipe really improved the pick up; guess I am basically saying that lag is NOT just down to the turbo but the way it is installed and particularly the way the pipe work runs be it Exhaust manifold or intake.

Mapping - if you are pulling too much ignition advance or underfuelling your engine will get too hot (very quickly) and will break (usually pistons melt and jam which breaks a rod and punches a hole in the side of the block but you can also get valve failure etc etc). Getting the internal temperatures right is I believe the single most important thing to achieve. Don't forget that how you drive the car has a lot of impact on under bonnet temperatures, constant trashing will cause problems (eg when I took mine to Castle Coombe oil tempreatures got WAY higher than they ever have on the road). My car still needs the mapping sorted as it doesn't run completely smoothly (but is fine to drive - I am just a perffectionist) but this will wait until the internals have been sorted.

False mpg readings - another comment earlier in the thread, mine does this and I believe it is because the ecu has not been "told" about the bigger flow rate of the injectors, eg if the ecu thinks the injector squirts (made up figure) 10cc of fuel each time it fires for with a given pressure and time but in reality the injector is bigger so gives 20cc for the same pressure and time of squirt the ecu thinks the car is only using half the fuel that is actually is (and the ecu is effectively being told to run the car WAY lean with just the bigger injector size 'fixing' the problem.

Look forward to hearing thoughts and corrections on the above if I am getting any of this wrong /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .
 
Going by the torque and bhp figures people have been quoting for turbo conversions, I've been led
to believe (and have been suspecting for a long while), that Jabbasport heavily over-quote their
power/torque figures.

My s3 had a supersprint system fitted by them, afterwhich it was wheeled straight onto their rollers for a remap. The end result after 4 hours of hanging around was a quoted:

276bhp and 301 lb ft torque

Seeing as ppl with turbo conversions have been getting around 280 lbft, I can only assume that Jabbasport like many other tuners have over-quoted their power figures, to enhance their reputation etc.

Thoughts, comments?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Going by the torque and bhp figures people have been quoting for turbo conversions, I've been led
to believe (and have been suspecting for a long while), that Jabbasport heavily over-quote their
power/torque figures.

My s3 had a supersprint system fitted by them, afterwhich it was wheeled straight onto their rollers for a remap. The end result after 4 hours of hanging around was a quoted:

276bhp and 301 lb ft torque

Seeing as ppl with turbo conversions have been getting around 280 lbft, I can only assume that Jabbasport like many other tuners have over-quoted their power figures, to enhance their reputation etc.

Thoughts, comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

The power and torque figures look spot on to me, maybe a little over at most, say 1-2%, but certainly capable from a remapped S3. You have to understand that the 301lb/ft torque is a peak figure, it isn't sustained throughout the rev range, but in an IHI setup, you get 270lb/ft+ of torque throughout the rev range, probably upto the red line, which make for a very rapid machine in any gear with the turbo on song! I've driven RichA3Turbo's IHI A3, and it's an animal compared to my remapped S3, despite the fact I was using 800 revs less than what his peak power is achieved(around 7k), as he raised his rev limit, but retained the standard rev meter lol.
 
To help illustrate this, take a look at the graph below. See how the "big turbos" can hold boost and thus torque for much longer.

Note how the k03 and k04 peak early and then give up. OE borg warner items can indeed make initial high torque, but they just can't sustain it like the garratts and IHI's of this world.
Once you've driven one you instantly feel the difference.

boost_plot_dec_28th.jpg


Would have been nice to see some IHI lines to compare, but hey.
 
ihi power is chalk and cheese too a simple remap.
275bhp@4100rpm!
amk engines are difficult to say,the early ones had 20mm pins so couldn't be 100%.
With the ihi you should be alright with your pistons rich,but s3 pistons are well known to be very strong.
 
[ QUOTE ]
.
With the ihi you should be alright with your pistons rich,but s3 pistons are well known to be very strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never doubted they wouldnt... Not that i shall be keeping them for phase 2.

Rich
 
lol,i'm working on phase 2 now and i'm keeping mine.
 
I'm working an Phase X and I've got new everything! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Dare I ask. How much are ppl paying for insurance for a turbo conversion?
And who are the best ones to try?

I'm with Elephant. and the annoying thing is that they have a tick box for
Chipping and a separate tick box for TurboCharging.

Now which one does a turbo conversion tick. I know in theory it should be both, but I don't want to unnecessarily load my insurance premium. Any advice peps?

Cheers
 
Normal insurance companies are useless!!

I'm 22, 2 years NCB, with all mods declared, paying £1099/pa fully comp with unlimited milage. Thats with Greenlight.

RIch
 
Thanks Rich,
I've just rang up Greenlight, and they have quoted £ 870 for a turbo conversion with power of
330 bhp. This aint bad at all.
 
As for my APY...

It was indeed down to poor management, underfueling and all sorts. It was a home brew done by the previous owner. Jabba did map it and supply the tubo but they did not do the conversion.

Cyl 3 melted - which I have heard of happening in other IHI setups - BUT never one done by Jabba!! As long as you are running stock management and the install done by Jabba then you should be fine. I would always advice a knock link/knock sensor in any big turbo install. This way as soon as anything goes wrong in the motor heat/det wise you get a visual warning in the cabin. I know I will... something as simple as a bad batch of fuel could cause a failure/some permanent damage.
 
me7 all have knock control as standard.me 7.5 is even better.
 
Academic I know, but...

what kind of performance are we talking about here?

E46 M3 territory? Or is that just fantasy?
 
0-100 in 12 seconds in a s3. I would say e46 m3 performance is about right.
 
E46 M3 60-100 in about 6.5 secs
IHI'd glof, 5.5 secs
GT3 porker 5 secs.

From experience straight line rolling an M3 has approximately no chance. Neither has a 3.6 carrera. The 3.6TT will give you a run for it.
A new M5 again from experience is another story.

Mine has in 20K of being IHI'd, thrown a rod, eaten 3 turbos (all bearing failures), eaten a gearbox, burnt out a valve (failed maf), and cost me more money than I care to think about.
It is driven hard every day, and I recently had the mapper (an American) tell me that there's no way I should be blowing rods, breaking gearboxes etc at this power level.
After I dropped him off, he said 'do you drive like that often?'
All the time!
'Well I guess that explains how you break so many things then'

Most people really don't use the power, or do many miles, so they believe the car is reliable. Make it have it everyday, and it'll go bang.
 
hi wilko,
Suprised your not banned if you use it too the max every drive!!
That said i'm uprating the major weak links of the 1.8t(rods and valves) to maintain reliabilty.
 
clean licence.
It's all about knowing where you can get away with it, and having a 6th sense. No speeding in anything under a 50 limit helps.
But in the 4 mile journey to work it hits the limiter in 2nd and 3rd every day,.
I've done rods, pistons, valves etc. it's just a shame that it was booked in for the work 3 days after the first engine expired.
You are all on borrowed time.
 
Where is the limiter set? I don't see the point in the S3 in going over 6k (I know it'd be different with IHI) but surely if your buggering your car that quick perhaps go for more power and less right foot to get there?

I'd also say there is no way in hell the oil can get up to temp in 4 miles, that might explain the need for new turbos all the time - why not get a large V8 engined car they tend to get up to temp quick and take more abuse than turbo cars.
 
Limiter is at 7500. Boost only drops slightly by then.
Oil is up to 80 in about 3 miles. 2nd and 3rd to the limiter sticks 10C on it instantly.
The only section that is out of a 30 limit on my journey to work is in the last mile.
The oil filter has an oil water heat exchanger above it, which is a bit of a crap oil cooler, but a rather good oil heater. Modern synthetic oils are prety good even when cold though. Lots of people apply stupid old rules to modern oils that were only relevent to crap 1960s multigrade /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif.
My last engine was abused for 67k and never burnt a drop of oil.

Turbos get ******** from high boost, and weak bearings. Boost is now lower, and it seems happier. They really didn't like 1.8bar for long. Danish went through 3 on his ralye in less miles. All similar failures. Lots of the scoob boys toast them too.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Limiter is at 7500. Boost only drops slightly by then.
Oil is up to 80 in about 3 miles. 2nd and 3rd to the limiter sticks 10C on it instantly.
The only section that is out of a 30 limit on my journey to work is in the last mile.
The oil filter has an oil water heat exchanger above it, which is a bit of a crap oil cooler, but a rather good oil heater. Modern synthetic oils are prety good even when cold though. Lots of people apply stupid old rules to modern oils that were only relevent to crap 1960s multigrade /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif.
My last engine was abused for 67k and never burnt a drop of oil.

Turbos get ******** from high boost, and weak bearings. Boost is now lower, and it seems happier. They really didn't like 1.8bar for long. Danish went through 3 on his ralye in less miles. All similar failures. Lots of the scoob boys toast them too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to hear others opinions, I guess I'm just causious after needing a new engine and turbo last year for my standard S3, I partly put it down to the fact it did a lot of short journeys early on in life (previous owner only lived a few miles from work and in a city).
 
Much more likely to be down to lack of oil changes on yours. 20k services, do me a favor. I change mine every 5K. Always have.
Oil overheating on the 1.8T is much more of a problem than under temperature. High speed motorway cruising sees some very high oil temps.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Much more likely to be down to lack of oil changes on yours. 20k services, do me a favor. I change mine every 5K. Always have.
Oil overheating on the 1.8T is much more of a problem than under temperature. High speed motorway cruising sees some very high oil temps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine was always changed before 10k on the annual / fixed servicing but who knows, it'll be getting changed a lot more often with better oil now I'm thinking of keeping it.
 
mr caney @ 1.92bar peak!!
so with your fully built engine wilko what boost are you running?I was thinking 1.6 held and 7500 redline.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Most people really don't use the power, or do many miles, so they believe the car is reliable. Make it have it everyday, and it'll go bang.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you can do that to ANY car.

I mean drive it like a **** and break it. It's easy enough to do if you really have it in you.

Some people on the other hand have the ability to judge how hard you can push while still keeping within the realms of reliability.

I and others call it 'mechanical sympathy'.

BUB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
 
Ryan
a vf34 20 will only hold about 1.25 to 7500 on a big port. I'm running 1.4-1.45 peak. Caneys is not long for this world.

Bub.
Driven every car i've ever owned or been lent flat out and never had one let go. Modifying a standard engine to double the power and torque, and expecting total reliability is unreasonable.

My point really was that a lot of BT reliability bull has come from the yanks, who don't drive their cars. Straight roads, accelerate hard (once) then cruise. Driving in the UK is very different. Accelerate, brake corner, and repeat. Totaly different load cycle to the average US motor.

I drove mine flat out on it's original turbo for 50K miles, running the turbo wastegate shut. Zero issues.
Pushing the extra 100hp and 50lbft over that just pushed too far. Rods failed through fatigue. Repeated loads, over fatigue limit too many times. No mechanical sympathy would have made a scrap of difference.
Turbo bearing failures. Read up on bearing reliability of roller bearing turbos on tinternet. Not the most reliable things. Scoob guys get through these turbo in a couple of rally events. Mostly bearing failures. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Bub.
Driven every car i've ever owned or been lent flat out and never had one let go.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lucky you!

[ QUOTE ]
Modifying a standard engine to double the power and torque, and expecting total reliability is unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, that's a very good point - It's also the reason that if I go the big Turbo route I'll be looking at 300bhp MAX. I'll leave the pub figures for everyone else! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I enjoy driving my car and I'm past the point in my life where I want to spend cold damp evenings in my garage strapping my engine back together, so I drive it accordingly!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BUB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ryan
a vf34 20 will only hold about 1.25 to 7500 on a big port. I'm running 1.4-1.45 peak. Caneys is not long for this world.

Bub.
Driven every car i've ever owned or been lent flat out and never had one let go. Modifying a standard engine to double the power and torque, and expecting total reliability is unreasonable.

My point really was that a lot of BT reliability bull has come from the yanks, who don't drive their cars. Straight roads, accelerate hard (once) then cruise. Driving in the UK is very different. Accelerate, brake corner, and repeat. Totaly different load cycle to the average US motor.

I drove mine flat out on it's original turbo for 50K miles, running the turbo wastegate shut. Zero issues.
Pushing the extra 100hp and 50lbft over that just pushed too far. Rods failed through fatigue. Repeated loads, over fatigue limit too many times. No mechanical sympathy would have made a scrap of difference.
Turbo bearing failures. Read up on bearing reliability of roller bearing turbos on tinternet. Not the most reliable things. Scoob guys get through these turbo in a couple of rally events. Mostly bearing failures. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I drive all cars I own pretty similarly to be fair (apart from the recent lazy v6 A4) - and I expected failures everyday.

I think your views are a little biased based on your situation and to put potential enthusiasts off a big turbo conversion is un-fair. Your conversion is into a car that is not SUPPOSED to have that engine in it which leads to a dozen other issues in itself - including correct installation of management etc. THe mods people are talking about here is a "simple" turbo swap and mapping of the existing management setup.

Anyway... If you look after your car it will look after you - simple. There are enough IHI users out there that have relatively reliable motoring. Everyone has their horror stories of course - but BRAND NEW car buyers have that too. But there will always be exceptions to the rule.

Cheers,
Leon
 
[ QUOTE ]
Your conversion is into a car that is not SUPPOSED to have that engine in it which leads to a dozen other issues in itself


[/ QUOTE ]

How do you mean? John's was a Mk4 1.8T to begin with....
 
The above graph shows why the K04 is a nice all-rounder also... its already boosting at 2k, so city driving isnt a chore.
 
[ QUOTE ]
E46 M3 60-100 in about 6.5 secs
IHI'd glof, 5.5 secs
GT3 porker 5 secs.

From experience straight line rolling an M3 has approximately no chance. Neither has a 3.6 carrera. The 3.6TT will give you a run for it.
A new M5 again from experience is another story.



[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously I have not driven your car or indeed been witness to any 1.8T with the sort of power you run but after owning a 3.6TT find those claims hard to believe but who knows for sure. Mine was a genuine 450 from the factory which could well be 550 - 600 in scooby/tuner speak.

The only fairly relative comparison i can give is a straight line rolling drive vs. a crazy Evo 400hp jap thing called a hurricane or something and i pulled on that very easily.

Im not doubting you but wonder how many controlled run-ins you have had with other marques as TBH i wouldnt have expected to have to change down a gear when a little black golf came along side me, then its all over before it starts.
 
[quote}
Obviously I have not driven your car or indeed been witness to any 1.8T with the sort of power you run but after owning a 3.6TT find those claims hard to believe but who knows for sure. Mine was a genuine 450 from the factory which could well be 550 - 600 in scooby/tuner speak.

The only fairly relative comparison i can give is a straight line rolling drive vs. a crazy Evo 400hp jap thing called a hurricane or something and i pulled on that very easily.

Im not doubting you but wonder how many controlled run-ins you have had with other marques as TBH i wouldnt have expected to have to change down a gear when a little black golf came along side me, then its all over before it starts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nervus
One of my neighbours had a 996TT, and now has a 996C4 (wifes car), Cayene Turbo, 575 maranelo amongst other toys. We have a play quite regularly.
One of my coleagues has a carrera 2 which I murder, and another has a 993 turbo4 which doesn't feel quick, but he won't play.
Straight line, I muller my old mans XJR, and his boxter isn't even worth the fuel.
I've driven a 355 at length, and over my normal timing straights (speed by points on gps), it was no quicker.

I have driven all of these cars, and know the owners well enough that a)they let me drive them, and b) I know they are trying when we play.

I also know from having driven them, that I'd swap my glof for any of them in a heartbeat, but thats not the point.

Just for reference, the car has a 1/4 mile terminal of 110mph. This is with crap fwd start.
A new 450hp V8 Vantage manages about 107mph over the same distance, and a 225 S3 about 94mph.



The only car that has ever sereously put any ground on me is a new M5 from 120 onwards. A bently GT pulled on me from 140.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I also know from having driven them, that I'd swap my glof for any of them in a heartbeat, but thats not the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely if you feel like that the ammount of money you've spent on your golf would have been better on getting something else, I'm just guessing at the cost of all the work but I'd guess your well into 911 land and probably 996 land?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Andyrew_88
IHI Turbo Downpipe
Replies
8
Views
2K
<tuffty/>
<tuffty/>
E
JabbaSport IHI Turbo
Replies
7
Views
3K
[Dave B]
[Dave B]
edward_harris
hybird ihi turbo
Replies
52
Views
3K
Ryanc
R
S
S3 turbo up grade IHI advice
Replies
11
Views
1K
S3pallas
S
Robbo1144
JBS/IHI stage 1 turbo kit
Replies
0
Views
687
Robbo1144
Robbo1144
Top
Back