Awesome RR day Thursday 29th Dec
- Thread starter Ryanc
- Start date
[ QUOTE ]
Did you watch the video of mine,what a racket!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah it was pretty loud!
But in a good way! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Did you watch the video of mine,what a racket!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah it was pretty loud!
But in a good way! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
So what do you guys recon about the figures?
I've been following that massive thread on SCN. Are other dyno's accurate?
I've been following that massive thread on SCN. Are other dyno's accurate?
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 29,115
- Reaction score
- 3,862
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Solihull, Midlands
- Website
- www.audi-sport.net
[ QUOTE ]
So what do you guys recon about the figures?
I've been following that massive thread on SCN. Are other dyno's accurate?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hard to tell Rich, as I only got power @Wheels, but the operator assures me its around 260-265BHP at the fly, which is near enough the 262BHP I got at AmD previously.
I was under the impression that AmD's rollers was reading a bit high previously(like a couple of years ago), but the last RR we had showed they we're more accurate, so maybe their rollers have been recalibrated?, although I'm sure RyanC will disagree lol.
So what do you guys recon about the figures?
I've been following that massive thread on SCN. Are other dyno's accurate?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hard to tell Rich, as I only got power @Wheels, but the operator assures me its around 260-265BHP at the fly, which is near enough the 262BHP I got at AmD previously.
I was under the impression that AmD's rollers was reading a bit high previously(like a couple of years ago), but the last RR we had showed they we're more accurate, so maybe their rollers have been recalibrated?, although I'm sure RyanC will disagree lol.
I got the same impression about the AmD RR. When I had my car remapped, it produced a good 10bhp more than it did on the RR Day. As you say, perhaps it has been recallobrated!
I thought all cars on the RR Day produced reasonably accurate figures.
I thought all cars on the RR Day produced reasonably accurate figures.
Rollers were unloaded and the runs were far too long.Mine is guessimated at 330bhp. Still reckon it's more like 360bhp.The torque was miles out.Very odd dip in my graph too.
[ QUOTE ]
So what do you guys recon about the figures?
I've been following that massive thread on SCN. Are other dyno's accurate?
[/ QUOTE ]
I reckon my figures are about right.
So what do you guys recon about the figures?
I've been following that massive thread on SCN. Are other dyno's accurate?
[/ QUOTE ]
I reckon my figures are about right.
[ QUOTE ]
Rollers were unloaded and the runs were far too long.Mine is guessimated at 330bhp. Still reckon it's more like 360bhp.The torque was miles out.Very odd dip in my graph too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ryan
I think you're being a bit optimistic there. The vf34 (20) won't flow more than 260g/s, and at that they don't last very long. I've killed 3 in less than a year. I'd be very surprised if you're over 250g/s, which is pretty much 325hp.
Just as a guide, a remapped S4 with bolt ons runs 270g/s, and a standard RS4 runs 290g/s.
To be making 360hp you'd need to be at 275-280g/s or use loads of octane booster.
Also look at your 1/4 mile times verses M3's that you've seen at the pod. M3 weighs more than yours, and your terminal speeds are pretty much the same (107mph), which means you have the same power to weight. They have 343hp from memory and weigh 12% more than you so this would guesstimate your power at 307hp.
If your car did have 360hp, it should trap 113-114mph based on a weight with driver of 1450kg.
Now mine comes out at 330hp (317whp) at awesome (dynojet), and 330hp(>272whp maxed rollers) at stealth (sun ram) , 331hp (311whp) at JBS (piper) and 322(270whp) at surrey RR (dynodynamics).
it sees >250g/s, which is 325hp (using 0.77 conversion)
It traps 110mph which is bang on for 325hp and 1390kg with driver.
Car spec is AGU with pauter rods, ceramic coated S3 pistons, polished/ported big port head, supertech valves, VF34 (20) with forge actuater, 1.45 bar sustained to 6500rpm dropping to 1.25 at 7600rpm as turbo compressor is at max flow.
Rollers were unloaded and the runs were far too long.Mine is guessimated at 330bhp. Still reckon it's more like 360bhp.The torque was miles out.Very odd dip in my graph too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ryan
I think you're being a bit optimistic there. The vf34 (20) won't flow more than 260g/s, and at that they don't last very long. I've killed 3 in less than a year. I'd be very surprised if you're over 250g/s, which is pretty much 325hp.
Just as a guide, a remapped S4 with bolt ons runs 270g/s, and a standard RS4 runs 290g/s.
To be making 360hp you'd need to be at 275-280g/s or use loads of octane booster.
Also look at your 1/4 mile times verses M3's that you've seen at the pod. M3 weighs more than yours, and your terminal speeds are pretty much the same (107mph), which means you have the same power to weight. They have 343hp from memory and weigh 12% more than you so this would guesstimate your power at 307hp.
If your car did have 360hp, it should trap 113-114mph based on a weight with driver of 1450kg.
Now mine comes out at 330hp (317whp) at awesome (dynojet), and 330hp(>272whp maxed rollers) at stealth (sun ram) , 331hp (311whp) at JBS (piper) and 322(270whp) at surrey RR (dynodynamics).
it sees >250g/s, which is 325hp (using 0.77 conversion)
It traps 110mph which is bang on for 325hp and 1390kg with driver.
Car spec is AGU with pauter rods, ceramic coated S3 pistons, polished/ported big port head, supertech valves, VF34 (20) with forge actuater, 1.45 bar sustained to 6500rpm dropping to 1.25 at 7600rpm as turbo compressor is at max flow.
[ QUOTE ]
The vf34 (20) won't flow more than 260g/s, and at that they don't last very long. I've killed 3 in less than a year
Car spec is AGU with pauter rods, ceramic coated S3 pistons, polished/ported big port head, supertech valves, VF34 (20) with forge actuater, 1.45 bar sustained to 6500rpm dropping to 1.25 at 7600rpm as turbo compressor is at max flow.
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting reading.
So are you looking at going for a larger Turbo? If you've killed 3 in less then a year? I take it that's just because the Turbo is on it's limit at that power? And not that it is weak?
Also I'm only just looking into the IHI conversion, but what is the VF34 (20)? As I've been reading about different housings for them.
Finally what's you car like on the road? What sort of 0-60's/quarter miles are you doing?
Cheers Mark.
The vf34 (20) won't flow more than 260g/s, and at that they don't last very long. I've killed 3 in less than a year
Car spec is AGU with pauter rods, ceramic coated S3 pistons, polished/ported big port head, supertech valves, VF34 (20) with forge actuater, 1.45 bar sustained to 6500rpm dropping to 1.25 at 7600rpm as turbo compressor is at max flow.
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting reading.
So are you looking at going for a larger Turbo? If you've killed 3 in less then a year? I take it that's just because the Turbo is on it's limit at that power? And not that it is weak?
Also I'm only just looking into the IHI conversion, but what is the VF34 (20)? As I've been reading about different housings for them.
Finally what's you car like on the road? What sort of 0-60's/quarter miles are you doing?
Cheers Mark.
Mark
I would not try to put anyone off the IHI conversions, but if your car is your daily driver, and you do more than a few thousand miles a year, have a deep wallet and a spare car.
Mine ran faultlessly for the first 52,000 miles of chipped with bolt ons, and latterly E05 turbo.
Post IHI it ran for 13,000 miles before it threw a rod. In the last 8000 miles its killed 3 turbos, burnt a valve out, and quite a few other problems. It's cost me the best part of £8K in a year and that's not including the price of the IHI kit. The turbos are being worked flat out, which is why they are not lasting, and consequently I have reduced the boost to 1.2bar to try and make the latest one survive. I looked at a bigger turbo (18g, or SR40), but the exhaust manifold design doesn't allow for a larger compressor housing without hitting the mani-head flange. It would need a spacer between the manifold and turbo, along with new oil lines. I didn't have the time this time around, but next time the car can be off the road for as long as it takes
The problem is is that after 1.5 bar, 1.2 bar feels very tame. It's ballistic on the road, and very little other than supercars are a challenge. Straight line it'll outrun my mates 997S. People always witter on about the twisties, but on an A or B road, the quickest car will be the one with the driver who is prepared to take the most risks. Against my mates 997S the twisties are no problem, as he's alway worried about his £65K car.
1/4 mile current best is a 13.6@110mph with a really bad 60ft on a very greasy day at the pod in October. Only been once since IHI, as the cars always been broken when I've planned to go. With a decent start It should do a very low 13. 0-60 should be mid 5's with a ton in 10-11's which is quick enough to dispatch most things.
I would not try to put anyone off the IHI conversions, but if your car is your daily driver, and you do more than a few thousand miles a year, have a deep wallet and a spare car.
Mine ran faultlessly for the first 52,000 miles of chipped with bolt ons, and latterly E05 turbo.
Post IHI it ran for 13,000 miles before it threw a rod. In the last 8000 miles its killed 3 turbos, burnt a valve out, and quite a few other problems. It's cost me the best part of £8K in a year and that's not including the price of the IHI kit. The turbos are being worked flat out, which is why they are not lasting, and consequently I have reduced the boost to 1.2bar to try and make the latest one survive. I looked at a bigger turbo (18g, or SR40), but the exhaust manifold design doesn't allow for a larger compressor housing without hitting the mani-head flange. It would need a spacer between the manifold and turbo, along with new oil lines. I didn't have the time this time around, but next time the car can be off the road for as long as it takes
The problem is is that after 1.5 bar, 1.2 bar feels very tame. It's ballistic on the road, and very little other than supercars are a challenge. Straight line it'll outrun my mates 997S. People always witter on about the twisties, but on an A or B road, the quickest car will be the one with the driver who is prepared to take the most risks. Against my mates 997S the twisties are no problem, as he's alway worried about his £65K car.
1/4 mile current best is a 13.6@110mph with a really bad 60ft on a very greasy day at the pod in October. Only been once since IHI, as the cars always been broken when I've planned to go. With a decent start It should do a very low 13. 0-60 should be mid 5's with a ton in 10-11's which is quick enough to dispatch most things.
I've been running mine over 11k miles now, and Its not broken anything really... But im running about 1.2bar, and i dont drive it falt out, all the time, and mine is a daily driver...
As you say, 99.9% of cars arent a challenge and even cars that should be, sometimes arent much of a challenge either!
As you say, 99.9% of cars arent a challenge and even cars that should be, sometimes arent much of a challenge either!
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2004
- Messages
- 3,430
- Reaction score
- 10
- Points
- 38
- Location
- Koh Samui, Thailand
- Website
- www.b3ta.com
Mark, if you are looking at big turbo's make sure you look around. There are alot of kits available now from the likes of JBS, ATP Turbo (via uk suppier) etc.
Make sure you consider a Garrett GT before you take the plunge.
Make sure you consider a Garrett GT before you take the plunge.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2004
- Messages
- 3,430
- Reaction score
- 10
- Points
- 38
- Location
- Koh Samui, Thailand
- Website
- www.b3ta.com
[ QUOTE ]
The boost control system on all 1.8t's is load dependant ,ie no load no boost.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just had one of those penny dropping moments.
Now I know why I get less boost downhill /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I've been wondering about that for a while. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Anyways, back to the thread.
Nice page that, with all the spec/movies/figures etc. I love comparing different rolling road figures. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
The boost control system on all 1.8t's is load dependant ,ie no load no boost.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just had one of those penny dropping moments.
Now I know why I get less boost downhill /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I've been wondering about that for a while. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Anyways, back to the thread.
Nice page that, with all the spec/movies/figures etc. I love comparing different rolling road figures. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
Remember that all the 2wd cars were ran with 4 or 8 % load while all the 4wd were ran with no load,no boost.If a vf34(p20) runs out of steam at 320bhp then how did custardcupra achieve 322whp on a p18 housing.I run 1.5bar overboost to 1.35 held which i have confirmed with vag-com. Hopefully soon i'll pop down to owens to get it dyno'd properly.BTW i have a video of a 355 doing a 1/4 at pod in the same terminal,my best is now 109mph.Enough speculation.
1.35 sustained on a smallport woth p20 is no more than 240g/s.
Ever tried to launch a 355, or do a quick gear change in one. I have, and it aint pretty.
What's your 1/4 time down to now ryan?
Ever tried to launch a 355, or do a quick gear change in one. I have, and it aint pretty.
What's your 1/4 time down to now ryan?
adcooper
Audi A6 C6 Avant 3.0tdi Le Mans S-Line
btw guys i know no1 has actually seen my car or heard it since ive had it but heres a video of my S4 on the rollers..
watch the torque steer go wild at the end lol
http://www.vagowners.com/media/richys4.wmv
watch the torque steer go wild at the end lol
http://www.vagowners.com/media/richys4.wmv
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 29,115
- Reaction score
- 3,862
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Solihull, Midlands
- Website
- www.audi-sport.net
Nice vid Richy, it wans't torque steer at the end, just the weight transfer from lifting off the throttle quickly after max revs.
sorry yeah.. that will be the one...
few problems with the mapping which will hopefully be sorted out soon..
few problems with the mapping which will hopefully be sorted out soon..
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 29,115
- Reaction score
- 3,862
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Solihull, Midlands
- Website
- www.audi-sport.net
[ QUOTE ]
sorry yeah.. that will be the one...
few problems with the mapping which will hopefully be sorted out soon..
[/ QUOTE ]
No worries Richy, where was it being run and how much power are you running these days?
sorry yeah.. that will be the one...
few problems with the mapping which will hopefully be sorted out soon..
[/ QUOTE ]
No worries Richy, where was it being run and how much power are you running these days?
it ran at awesome on the CGTI day..
not sure on teh power figures to be honest.. as awesome quoted under 300 at the wheels??? erm.. ok not sure..
and AMD quoted 371 before full system..
so totally mixed up lol
but i would never take AMD as a quote anyways.. very high quote me happy figures..
but as soon as some of the issues with the car are sorted will get it all up and tuned again.. to get a better idea of where its at...
not sure on teh power figures to be honest.. as awesome quoted under 300 at the wheels??? erm.. ok not sure..
and AMD quoted 371 before full system..
so totally mixed up lol
but i would never take AMD as a quote anyways.. very high quote me happy figures..
but as soon as some of the issues with the car are sorted will get it all up and tuned again.. to get a better idea of where its at...
maf readings are 260 g/s max.
boost is 1.53bar peak,1.43 max power ,1.35 redline.I'm estimating power at 340-360bhp
Boost is rock steady,unlike what happened on awesomes rollers.
boost is 1.53bar peak,1.43 max power ,1.35 redline.I'm estimating power at 340-360bhp
Boost is rock steady,unlike what happened on awesomes rollers.
[ QUOTE ]
Where does the formula...
MASS Air Flow (g/s) / 0.77 (or 0.8) = bhp (approx)
come from?
AL
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey AL
I'm still around, just too busy to post much.
My 0.77 comes from
Rs4 290g/s, 270hp, =0.78
TT225/s3 standard 170g/s 222hp =.766
GTI golf, 115g/s 150hp, =0.8
Chiped s3/tt/cupra R 200g/s, 260hp? =.77
Ryans car 260g/s, 335hp, =.77 though I think ryan should check the 260g/s for himself on block 3 with vag com, because I doub't it. I've run the same turbo at a sustained 1.5 bar on a small port, and it wouldn't go over 245g/s with a 20 housing, and 235 with an 18. On a large port, a 20'll just about do 260g/s.
The yanks reckon that 1lb/min of airflow is about 10hp. 1lb/min=7.57g/s. I reckon this isn't too far off, but maybe a tiny bit high.
Next time I'm up in the north west AL I'm going to drop in and see CW. We could all do a beer?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
Where does the formula...
MASS Air Flow (g/s) / 0.77 (or 0.8) = bhp (approx)
come from?
AL
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey AL
I'm still around, just too busy to post much.
My 0.77 comes from
Rs4 290g/s, 270hp, =0.78
TT225/s3 standard 170g/s 222hp =.766
GTI golf, 115g/s 150hp, =0.8
Chiped s3/tt/cupra R 200g/s, 260hp? =.77
Ryans car 260g/s, 335hp, =.77 though I think ryan should check the 260g/s for himself on block 3 with vag com, because I doub't it. I've run the same turbo at a sustained 1.5 bar on a small port, and it wouldn't go over 245g/s with a 20 housing, and 235 with an 18. On a large port, a 20'll just about do 260g/s.
The yanks reckon that 1lb/min of airflow is about 10hp. 1lb/min=7.57g/s. I reckon this isn't too far off, but maybe a tiny bit high.
Next time I'm up in the north west AL I'm going to drop in and see CW. We could all do a beer?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
Mike still thinks it's the most powerful standard engined car that has been done.Logging was done with vag-com.Anyway i'm pleased with the performance,i've had a rwd 1260kg 260atw car and the s3 feels alot faster,so i still think it's probably 340+bhp.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where does the formula...
MASS Air Flow (g/s) / 0.77 (or 0.8) = bhp (approx)
come from?
AL
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey AL
I'm still around, just too busy to post much.
My 0.77 comes from
Rs4 290g/s, 270hp, =0.78
TT225/s3 standard 170g/s 222hp =.766
GTI golf, 115g/s 150hp, =0.8
Chiped s3/tt/cupra R 200g/s, 260hp? =.77
Ryans car 260g/s, 335hp, =.77 though I think ryan should check the 260g/s for himself on block 3 with vag com, because I doub't it. I've run the same turbo at a sustained 1.5 bar on a small port, and it wouldn't go over 245g/s with a 20 housing, and 235 with an 18. On a large port, a 20'll just about do 260g/s.
The yanks reckon that 1lb/min of airflow is about 10hp. 1lb/min=7.57g/s. I reckon this isn't too far off, but maybe a tiny bit high.
Next time I'm up in the north west AL I'm going to drop in and see CW. We could all do a beer?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the explaination John.
As for the drink, let me know and I'll be there.
For the record my standard S3 (yep its still stock! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) is recording between 181-191g/s, average is about 185g/s. Which isn't bad, if you are to believe the forumula above.
AL
[ QUOTE ]
Where does the formula...
MASS Air Flow (g/s) / 0.77 (or 0.8) = bhp (approx)
come from?
AL
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey AL
I'm still around, just too busy to post much.
My 0.77 comes from
Rs4 290g/s, 270hp, =0.78
TT225/s3 standard 170g/s 222hp =.766
GTI golf, 115g/s 150hp, =0.8
Chiped s3/tt/cupra R 200g/s, 260hp? =.77
Ryans car 260g/s, 335hp, =.77 though I think ryan should check the 260g/s for himself on block 3 with vag com, because I doub't it. I've run the same turbo at a sustained 1.5 bar on a small port, and it wouldn't go over 245g/s with a 20 housing, and 235 with an 18. On a large port, a 20'll just about do 260g/s.
The yanks reckon that 1lb/min of airflow is about 10hp. 1lb/min=7.57g/s. I reckon this isn't too far off, but maybe a tiny bit high.
Next time I'm up in the north west AL I'm going to drop in and see CW. We could all do a beer?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the explaination John.
As for the drink, let me know and I'll be there.
For the record my standard S3 (yep its still stock! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) is recording between 181-191g/s, average is about 185g/s. Which isn't bad, if you are to believe the forumula above.
AL
