Audi S3 8P versus BMW E46 M3?
- Thread starter Joolz
- Start date
beanoir
Large Member
Ok, I didn't really want to post this, but here it goes. Can you people explain to me, why an S3 with 1800kg is matching this coupe in speed? Before people start doubting the weight figure:
Car with half a tank weighted is 1600 dead on. S3 sport-back with panoramic roof
Driver weighs 115kg (what can I say, I like food)
The co driver weighs 70-80kg
We were returning from Audi club trip, so 2-3 days' worth of baggage in the car as well.
BTW, the S3 had the known issue with the missfires back then, so you can assume that the remap was pretty much stock over 5900rpm to avoid valve floating. People from Cyprus will also notice my comments at the end of the vid, as I was amazed myself from the fact that the M3 couldn't get away at those speeds.
YouTube - S3 vs M3
What also amazes me is that the M3 (like the RS4) fails to produce the claimed power from the factory, M3 forums are full of examples, yet the owners choose not to know this. I don't mean to prove I own the best car between the 2, that would be idiotic. The M3 is a brilliant car, just not in the straight.
Car with half a tank weighted is 1600 dead on. S3 sport-back with panoramic roof
Driver weighs 115kg (what can I say, I like food)
The co driver weighs 70-80kg
We were returning from Audi club trip, so 2-3 days' worth of baggage in the car as well.
BTW, the S3 had the known issue with the missfires back then, so you can assume that the remap was pretty much stock over 5900rpm to avoid valve floating. People from Cyprus will also notice my comments at the end of the vid, as I was amazed myself from the fact that the M3 couldn't get away at those speeds.
YouTube - S3 vs M3
What also amazes me is that the M3 (like the RS4) fails to produce the claimed power from the factory, M3 forums are full of examples, yet the owners choose not to know this. I don't mean to prove I own the best car between the 2, that would be idiotic. The M3 is a brilliant car, just not in the straight.
beanoir
Large Member
looking at stats on google the M3 seems to be a 13 flat 1/4 mile car at absolute best....
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3...-s3-revo-stage2-santa-pod-very-impressed.html
This thread assumes a stage 2+ S3 will break that 13 seconds and on quite a few occasions by a few people..... corners out of the equation cos lets face it, it is weather dependent, the M3 is not as fast or as slow as anyone above assumes
so for the deabte of stage 2+ S3 versus M3...the win is for the S3 i am afraid, and lets face it, stage 2+ isn't exactly heavy modding by any stretch...id be happy with that considering it shouldnt get anywhere near the M3 (nice lil sleeper
)
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3...-s3-revo-stage2-santa-pod-very-impressed.html
This thread assumes a stage 2+ S3 will break that 13 seconds and on quite a few occasions by a few people..... corners out of the equation cos lets face it, it is weather dependent, the M3 is not as fast or as slow as anyone above assumes
so for the deabte of stage 2+ S3 versus M3...the win is for the S3 i am afraid, and lets face it, stage 2+ isn't exactly heavy modding by any stretch...id be happy with that considering it shouldnt get anywhere near the M3 (nice lil sleeper
)
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Take it from me, he had a different opinion than yours...he wasn't flat out. If you notice the co-driver waves his hand to slow down before I stop...Any more conspiracy theories?
theres always this debate as to whats faster....some see it as childish i personally enjoy knowing what my car can do and what i can get it to do.
The info above is indisputable, i googled the E46 M3 1/4 mile stats and the majority of them showed nearer the 13.3 mark...that thread shows a bloke in his first session with a passenger post a 13.5!! and that was crap by all accounts
i personally enjoy knowing what my car can do and what i can get it to do.The info above is indisputable, i googled the E46 M3 1/4 mile stats and the majority of them showed nearer the 13.3 mark...that thread shows a bloke in his first session with a passenger post a 13.5!! and that was crap by all accounts
so you are saying an S3 is quicker than the e46 m3? are you having a laugh? a stage 2 s3 what does it top out at? an m3 would kill an s3 around a track, in a 1/4 mile (most of the time) and everytime if you had a top speed run, what do de-restricted s3's run too? 165mph max??
sorry kidda but the whole of google disagrees with you in respect of the 1/4 mile, nobody cares about top out figures, how many times do you use above 120mph???? or use a track for that matter..... we are talking purely 1/4 mile, no need to get ya knickers in a twist, its a fact - you've underestimated the 8P's 2.0T engine obviously
are you saying the E46 is a sub 13 second car? if not then your argument is flawed
are you saying the E46 is a sub 13 second car? if not then your argument is flawed
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i'd have to agree with beanoir here - i don't recall seeing the brake lights on a single time from the M3. can't really have been pushing it all that hard if he didn't have to brake lol
anyhow, i think this debate is rather pointless - as Paddy said before if you tune the living hell out of an S3 ofc it'll be faster than an M3, but that's a silly debate anyway.
the M3 is a superior car, and will **** all over an S3 on a track. i understand that we're on an Audi forum and there's bound to be some bias but this is a little silly lol. giving a shopping trolley part time rear wheel drive and a bigger turbo does not a sports car make.
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point is sub is the straight line speed, that was the original steer of the thread...and as said, stage 2+ is enough to beat an M3 on the straight on a 1/4 mile strip... i wouldnt class stage 2+ as heavily modded
i dont doubt the M3's credentials, but simple fact is, it isnthard to get an 8P S3 to beat one for pace..... i even considered one myself and would have had one were it more stable in the wet
i dont doubt the M3's credentials, but simple fact is, it isnthard to get an 8P S3 to beat one for pace..... i even considered one myself and would have had one were it more stable in the wet
i guess that's where you draw the line. i'd say any engine hardware mods (including the TBE, HPFP, intercooler and CAI you'd need for Stage 2+) counts as heavily modded.
it's semantics really...the 1/4 mile times suggest more than just ahead, it's almost half a second ahead.... which assumes a stage 1 wouldnt be fare off or indeed just a stage 2......id put my money on my own if i had a stage 2 going on what info i've discovered
Like i said, im not trying to discredit the M3, its a proven wonderful car.... and we are comparing a much older car with current generation.....
but the facts are the facts and M3 owners need to step back and realise that they aren't untouchable
on the other note, id class a new turbo bolted on as heavily modded, a fuel pump or exhaust are regualr things which are often peoples 'first' modification....hardly hardcore
Like i said, im not trying to discredit the M3, its a proven wonderful car.... and we are comparing a much older car with current generation.....
but the facts are the facts and M3 owners need to step back and realise that they aren't untouchable
on the other note, id class a new turbo bolted on as heavily modded, a fuel pump or exhaust are regualr things which are often peoples 'first' modification....hardly hardcore
beanoir
Large Member
I'm bored now.
I have had an S3, modded as well. I currently have both an S3 and an E46 M3 sitting on my drive, come the end of Feb I might have neither, I might still have both or I might get something else, but I tell you what....I really couldn't give a monkey's uncle which of them performs best on Youtube.
More importantly - Tim - How did you get on with the test drives today?
I have had an S3, modded as well. I currently have both an S3 and an E46 M3 sitting on my drive, come the end of Feb I might have neither, I might still have both or I might get something else, but I tell you what....I really couldn't give a monkey's uncle which of them performs best on Youtube.
More importantly - Tim - How did you get on with the test drives today?
PaulAr
S3 (8P)
I have had 8 pints and will race you in either of those girls cars in the wife 1.0 Yaris with my X factor socks on.
So there.
beanoir
Large Member
beanoir
Large Member
im just arguing facts out of boredom mate.....
As much as it's a pointless argument, it's also strangely addictive to carry on... hehe
PaulAr
S3 (8P)
because i don't think he's tall enough to drive them both at the same time...
would make for an interesting insurance claim tho
shhhh, i'm waiting for Rich to come back and prove me wrong
hahame too! i love the debates! especially with 2 cars that I have owned in the past.
Maybe I am underestimating the stage 2 S3's in a 1/4 mile, i will refer to your "Google results" as they must be all 100% legit haha! - Only playing...
2 things:
1: I have a picture of my car on my laptop, how do I post it for the guy with the black s3 who asked? I try to paste but it comes up with insert a URL link??
2: regarding my e92, can a stage 2 s3 run with mine too then? lmao who fancies a meet to finally sort this debate? (on a private road of course!) I found the rs4 quite a disappointment when I ran against one recently it just screamed out “look at me in my outdated a4 family car”. Guess I’ll have to see what the rs6's are like!
beanoir
Large Member
erm, ok..... i like a good debate, but then theres taking the wee wee haha..... i suggest you awake from your slumber
there's obviously always going to be a strong bias on here towards audi's... but seriously guys... there's really no need to be so defensive and/or offensive to each other! some posts are clearly "fanboy" comments!
sounds like a few people on here have owned both vehicles and should be able to comment from experience and those that have had the opportunity to drive in both will also have valid comments. everyone is of course entitled to their opinions...
stock vs stock, the E46 M3 is definitely quicker than S3 in a straight line as well as on track. this applies on paper/specs as well as in the real world! but as pointed out, it's not really a fair race/comparison - but this was the comparison drawn by the op.
E46 M3 vs RS4 (from equivalent era) is a much fairer comparison! but even then it's straight 6 vs V8... i'm sure top gear or fifth gear have done some kind bake off with the various versions of both of these cars.
M1 vs S3 is probably a fairer comparison... or perhaps M1 should be compared to RS3.
E92 M3 vs current/most recent RS4 is probably the fairest/most direct comparison - both V8s, right? has anyone seen a decent write up - i'd be interested in the results.
M5 vs RS6... both are absolute monsters!! I've been a passenger in both and really couldn't tell them apart in terms of acceleration in a straight line... partially because my head was almost snapped off in both cases!!
the audi 4 pot 2.0 T and previously the 1.8 T are probably some of the most tunable engines available. so it really does not surprise me if someone's tuned S3 kicks an E46 M3s ****! I don't even think an E46 M3 can be tuned to acheive much more than is available from the factory!
Audi vs BMW is probably one of the oldest motoring rivalries and it's definitely great to see bmw's dominance being challenged and bettered by Audi as well as by some other marques in various categories. this should hopefully continue to result in better and better cars for all of us to choose from and debate about!!
sounds like a few people on here have owned both vehicles and should be able to comment from experience and those that have had the opportunity to drive in both will also have valid comments. everyone is of course entitled to their opinions...
stock vs stock, the E46 M3 is definitely quicker than S3 in a straight line as well as on track. this applies on paper/specs as well as in the real world! but as pointed out, it's not really a fair race/comparison - but this was the comparison drawn by the op.
E46 M3 vs RS4 (from equivalent era) is a much fairer comparison! but even then it's straight 6 vs V8... i'm sure top gear or fifth gear have done some kind bake off with the various versions of both of these cars.
M1 vs S3 is probably a fairer comparison... or perhaps M1 should be compared to RS3.
E92 M3 vs current/most recent RS4 is probably the fairest/most direct comparison - both V8s, right? has anyone seen a decent write up - i'd be interested in the results.
M5 vs RS6... both are absolute monsters!! I've been a passenger in both and really couldn't tell them apart in terms of acceleration in a straight line... partially because my head was almost snapped off in both cases!!
the audi 4 pot 2.0 T and previously the 1.8 T are probably some of the most tunable engines available. so it really does not surprise me if someone's tuned S3 kicks an E46 M3s ****! I don't even think an E46 M3 can be tuned to acheive much more than is available from the factory!
Audi vs BMW is probably one of the oldest motoring rivalries and it's definitely great to see bmw's dominance being challenged and bettered by Audi as well as by some other marques in various categories. this should hopefully continue to result in better and better cars for all of us to choose from and debate about!!
everyone will always draw a comparison,especially when they can achieve something that shouldn't be achievable....
we all have a vested interest in our cars naturally and i for one am chuffed that i can make my new car (when it appears) as quick as an M3 - what bugs me is the clan of people who are like 'thats simply not possible' - hence my replies to such misinformed people - what bugs me more is that i had to chase down evidence from google, i HATE searching for links to prove people wrong!! waste of my time to prove something to someone who does not apply logic
Sure i searched google to find the info, but i didnt click on the first one and think 'yeah im right', search the first 3 pages of the above mentioned subjects and you will see a pattern forming
stage 2+ S3 versus M3 = M3 loses on straights (just to annoy people more haha)
we all have a vested interest in our cars naturally and i for one am chuffed that i can make my new car (when it appears) as quick as an M3 - what bugs me is the clan of people who are like 'thats simply not possible' - hence my replies to such misinformed people - what bugs me more is that i had to chase down evidence from google, i HATE searching for links to prove people wrong!! waste of my time to prove something to someone who does not apply logic
Sure i searched google to find the info, but i didnt click on the first one and think 'yeah im right', search the first 3 pages of the above mentioned subjects and you will see a pattern forming
stage 2+ S3 versus M3 = M3 loses on straights (just to annoy people more haha)
S3RYE
Interior Next!!
couldnt have said it better myself... i give you an "A*" i think this thread should be closed now before a fight kicks off
An 'A' for pointing ouyt the blinking obvious thats generous
We know what should be compared to what.....intrigue comes about when you compare an apple with a pear especially when the apple shouldn't look like a pear or sumat like that haha
thats generous We know what should be compared to what.....intrigue comes about when you compare an apple with a pear especially when the apple shouldn't look like a pear
or sumat like that haha
S3RYE
Interior Next!!
An 'A' for pointing ouyt the blinking obvious
We know what should be compared to what.....intrigue comes about when you compare an apple with a pear especially when the apple shouldn't look like a pear
yeh but it still took 110 posts!!
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done a rolling run (from 20) against a 135i and was close but mine had the legs till we backed off... but if you mapped either of the 135 or 335, you would need a stg 2 or 2+ car i would reckon
Ash - There going on this weekend if the weather fine. Il ring you on the weekend to show you.
Jungleman - Thats interesting, would have thought the bigger engine would have pulled away at higher speed and they run more power standard, nice info though. These are the two cars I will be looking at as well as a 8P S3 when it come to looking for a new car. Some 135i/335i are running 400bhp with a few mods.
Jungleman - Thats interesting, would have thought the bigger engine would have pulled away at higher speed and they run more power standard, nice info though. These are the two cars I will be looking at as well as a 8P S3 when it come to looking for a new car. Some 135i/335i are running 400bhp with a few mods.
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they may have bigger hp (not sure would have to look)... which at top end, 120+ will give them the edge, but we backed of way before then, think as mines got more torque thats what gave me the low down grunt and as i know it was driven by a mate he wouldnt have been holding back
agreed, with a map, air box and exhaust they will start producing big power
edit: just had a look, the 135 is running a lot less hp & torque, stated figs are 306hp &295 lb/ft
agreed, with a map, air box and exhaust they will start producing big power
edit: just had a look, the 135 is running a lot less hp & torque, stated figs are 306hp &295 lb/ft
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Just had a quick look on BMW site and they run 300bhp/400nm 1500rpm standard. They have a very similar spec sheet as a S3.
When you raced your mates was your standard or running 345bhp, just looking at your sig
When you raced your mates was your standard or running 345bhp, just looking at your sig
