Hesitation - Timing

W

whiteunderarm

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Hi Guys,

Let me give you all as much info as possible:

I have an 09 S3 and have started feeling hestiation between 3000-5000rpm every so often...

This only began occuring after I fitted the Forge Intake, and the HPFP. Now i took the complete pump off my 08 S3 (which already had the uprated internals from Autotech) and just swapped it out with the 09 Pump.

Having run diagnostics I can confirm the following:

Intake temps are spot on perfect.
Fuel rail pressure is spot on perfect (requested v actual).
No problem at all with the MAF...flowing around 225.
Boost is spot on perfect (requested v actual).
And lastly there are no fault codes at all except that it is pulling around 8 to 9 degrees timing in the midrange.

Had the REVO Stage 2+ software loaded which only made the problem worse hence why i've resorted back to stock software until I can sort out the problem.

We suspect that the problem is either the spark plugs or the coilpacks which will be tested tomorrow. Has anyone perhaps have any other ideas of what it could be?? I want to make sure that the dealer checks over any possible problem (and you know how dealers are...if you dont ask they wont check).

PS do the 09 S3's run a different fuel pump to the 08 S3's?? (part numbers would be appreciated)...perhaps the pumps aren't interchangeable?

Thanks
 
Thanks to all those that responded ;) Just a quick update...the plugs were changed and that made no difference to the hesitation. The fuel pump part numbers were checked and the pumps are identical and thus interchangeable, so that rules out the pump.

The car is at the dealers as we speak and I hope to have an answer by later this afternoon ;) Holding thumbs that its only the coilpacks ;)
 
Is it like it's a little blip? I get that while cruising along. It's not apparent while under load.
I have had the valve springs changed by audi but it is still happening!
 
I am having the same problem as well.

My mods are REVO stage 1, AT HPFP and Forge Twintake.

My number 1 theory at the moment is coilpacks and I have some ready to swap in....

There are no fault codes stored but when doing some logging with VCDS tonight logging block 15 and 16 I noticed I am getting some misfires - up to 4 on cylinders 2 and 3 on a WOT run. So I think this is what maybe causing the problem.

I will be swapping the coil packs on cylinders 2 and 3 at the weekend.
 
@ KRL : have u logged timing advance (block 003) , and you see the timing the timing being retarded?
 
^^^

Yes I have mate, I was pulling up to -6 in block 20 and my timing advance is not good either with it sometimes only getting to 12 degrees by the redline.

Out of interest what are your LTFTs in block 32? Recently with the warm weather I have noticed my LTFT going up to 10% which is not good.
 
I have this problem a slight engine hesitation every now and again just cruising I start to notice it from like 3k upwards, and I only noticed it after I had revo stage one added, BUT, I had it revo taken off, and it is still there but it is really hardly noticeable, but I can feel it, I also having my car put in to have it looked at, no fault coded etc. think it is going to be a nitemare to rectify, was going to wait hoping it was going to get worse but after a long motorway drive at high speeds it is quite annoying

10 S3
 
Last edited:
KRL said:
^^^

Yes I have mate, I was pulling up to -6 in block 20 and my timing advance is not good either with it sometimes only getting to 12 degrees by the redline.

Out of interest what are your LTFTs in block 32? Recently with the warm weather I have noticed my LTFT going up to 10% which is not good.
Click to expand...

0,1 and 3.2
 
If you can do some logs of block 15 and 16 to see if you are getting any misfires when you get the stutter/hesitation. Hopefully that will point you in the direction of which coil packs to swap.

I'd be interested to know what other people are seeing when logging these blocks as well.
 
KRL said:
If you can do some logs of block 15 and 16 to see if you are getting any misfires when you get the stutter/hesitation. Hopefully that will point you in the direction of which coil packs to swap.

I'd be interested to know what other people are seeing when logging these blocks as well.
Click to expand...

will do this tomorrow evening.
 
I had problems on cylinder 1....swapping out the coilpacks tonight as the dealers found no fault codes and will only assist me on Monday again...pretty sure its the coilpacks....
 
How did you diagnose that it was cylinder 1?
 
just logged the misfire counter. ZERO's all the way through. No misfire.
So, I am in the dark again !!!!
 
Hmmm, have you tried swapping the standard engine cover back on to rule out the intake?
 
I also have the same issue at the moment. It happens with or with my EVOMS air intake and with the standard engine cover. Mine is only a 2.0 Tfsi, but has exactly the same issues.

Any help or ideas are greatley anticipated :sos:
 
Log blocks 15 and 16 with VCDS to see if you are getting misfires as a starting point.
 
This is just too weird for me. My previous S3( pre facelift) with the exact same mods and software ran faultlessly. I did not such issues.
 
Well I just changed coil packs 2 and 3 on my car. Been for a quick drive but did not have time to do any logging.

Initial impression is that she feels much better but I can still feel a very slight hesitation but nowhere near as much as before. I will report back after some more driving and log taking.
 
Its funny you say that, because i had a serious misfire about 2 weeks ago which turned out to be plugs. When we replaced the plugs we swapped the coils around. That also sorted my hesitation temporarily, so coils would add up im both your case and mine.
 
I got the latest OEM ones from Audi. They are about around £33 per coil pack.
 
After doing some more logging and driving last night I can confirm the problem is gone :arco:

Misfires, stutter and hesitation have disappeared. It is a shame the coil packs are such a weak point on VAG cars, after replacing CP 2 and 3 I think I will now also replace 1 and 4 for good measure.

On a side note the latest OEM ones do look to have been updated compared to the existing ones in my car so hopefully they will last longer.
 
Great news! Im glad for you mate, I have got 4 new ones being delivered to my work today for mine. Hopefully it sorts it tonight when i fit them to mine.
 
Ah man...i've been telling my dealer its the coils and they wont listen...they refuse to touch the car until i have put back the stock intake and fuel pump...how annoying!
 
They are easy to swap yourself. In fact I would prefer to do them myself as I do not trust monkey technicians at Audi dealers one bit.

Here is a little trick I used when doing them:
sm_007.jpg


sm_008.jpg


sm_009.jpg


sm_010.jpg
 
Yes.

You need to unplug them first before pulling them out.

sm_006.jpg
 
I'm reverting my car back to stock so that the dealers can swop the coilpacks out...I'd do it myself but I dont see why I should pay for it. Just irks me that they wont just swop them out, do a test drive and if the problem is gone then replace them. I understand they are trying to cover themselves regarding warranty issues but seriously, im not asking them to do more than a 10 minute job.
 
KRL said:
After doing some more logging and driving last night I can confirm the problem is gone :arco:

Misfires, stutter and hesitation have disappeared. It is a shame the coil packs are such a weak point on VAG cars, after replacing CP 2 and 3 I think I will now also replace 1 and 4 for good measure.

On a side note the latest OEM ones do look to have been updated compared to the existing ones in my car so hopefully they will last longer.
Click to expand...

Hi

Did you change your plugs at the same time, or leave the old ones in?

Are you using OEM plugs or Iridium 6 or 7's?

Cheers

W
 
warrencox said:
Hi

Did you change your plugs at the same time, or leave the old ones in?

Are you using OEM plugs or Iridium 6 or 7's?

Cheers

W
Click to expand...

Hi mate, I change my plugs about 2 months ago to BKR7EIXs so did not swap my plugs when troubleshooting this problem.
 
whiteunderarm said:
I'm reverting my car back to stock so that the dealers can swop the coilpacks out...I'd do it myself but I dont see why I should pay for it. Just irks me that they wont just swop them out, do a test drive and if the problem is gone then replace them. I understand they are trying to cover themselves regarding warranty issues but seriously, im not asking them to do more than a 10 minute job.
Click to expand...

Audi has had my Car since last Thursday, so far we have got to the ? what fuel do I use, they think it is a fuel issue, and have had problems similar with using low grade fuel, quite ironic that the car is suppose to run on all unleaded, on the first test drive i took to show them the issue they asked what fuel, and I told them V power, a week ago, so had my car all this time and they ask again, they also refuse to believe it is coil packs, I have to have my car back so they had it near a week and not solved it.

Frankly this has pretty well made me think I will never buy another Audi, I was warned that if I had a problem, they were next to useless, and this has proved it, to the point the Service MANAGER said he was not technical and did not have a clue to what I was talking about.

So Audi £120-0 PH is plug in computer, phone Audi technical, with data, they say what is wrong, and they fix, but they still cannot fix, cos computer says NO.

God only knows what this would cost if out of warranty

As you can see not to impressed, wasting my time and money, on a car a few months old, But I know this is how it would go, hence why I waited so long to try and get it sorted.
 
^^^ That is absolutely terrible service and you have every right to feel annoyed about it.

It is astonishing how de-skilled the technicians have become. All I can recommend is to contact Audi UK and complain about the service your local dealer has given you and see if that helps. Another option would be to find somebody near you who has VCDS and see if they would be willing to help you diagnose the problem. I would be more than happy to help but live quite far from you in Suffolk.
 
KRL said:
^^^ That is absolutely terrible service and you have every right to feel annoyed about it.

It is astonishing how de-skilled the technicians have become. All I can recommend is to contact Audi UK and complain about the service your local dealer has given you and see if that helps. Another option would be to find somebody near you who has VCDS and see if they would be willing to help you diagnose the problem. I would be more than happy to help but live quite far from you in Suffolk.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have VCDS though hehe, not a lot of good with it, I will get the car back today prob, as I need it to go to Germany, see what they have to say later on today.
 
KRL said:
It is astonishing how de-skilled the technicians have become.
Click to expand...

It's got to the point that if you have a 'performance' Audi you also need to factor costs and time for:

1) your own VCDS cable
2) additional support from a 3rd party tuning house
3) a half decent tool kit and some technical know how

I know far less than I'd like to, but I wouldn't want to own one of these cars if I had a very limited technical knowledge, or was on a shoe string budget (or had no contacts in the industry).

Audi UK Tech Support have a nasty habit of leaving people feeling exposed and unsupported which is pretty poor when the customer has done the honorable thing and blown 30 odd grand on an S3. As far as my local dealer is concerned, if the car will start and run it's fine, and when it stops running they will try to fix something. No consideration at all for optimizing the ownership experience by ensuring it runs well.

It's made worse by the fact Audi still has no preferred in-house tuning supplier, so for those of us who take the route of tinkering we become little more than an inconvenience for dealers.
 
Well to update you all, I got me car back, and they did change the coil packs more to just satisfy me, I do not think the problem has been totally solved, though not really had a chance at a long high speed tour. I had the revo turned off, BUT the Audi garage was told of some odd findings, ofc I told them no mods, except air filter, but when they connected the car up to vagcom, it connects to AUDI HQ technical, they can see readings that the garage cannot (THEY say this really frustrates them too) , and they said the DSG had gone over tolerenaces and some other funny finding readings But agreed it was not related to my problem, so in a nutshall they pretty well know it has been tampered with, they did ask me, and I owned up, It is unfair on them to try and find a fault with out all the facts, so now it will be interesting to see where we go from here.

I am tempted to get the spark plugs changed, Audi still maintain (well they think) it is fuel related, but they are all really scratching their heads and to be fair, it really could be anything from a loom fault, over fueling, spark plugs, even a poor quality new coil pack they fitted (not their fault), timing, and god knows loads of other things

My biggest Delemia is do I have the Revo switched back on as that will really tell me if the problem is solved, but if the problem is still there and I think it is, but it feels very different now, I take it back to them (Case is still open) they will see the DSG out of tolerance from a new date, that really could cause me warranty problems.
 
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