Stereo Install / Upgrade

[aragorn]

So i decided i'd make some headway into upgrading the stereo on the new car.

I'd pulled the headunit from the old car, along with the sub and amp:

Headunit is a Pioneer DEH-P3630MP, Sub is a Pioneer TS-W305C in a fibreglass/MDF enclosure crafted to fit the side of the boot, and the amp is a Sony XM-2100GTX, putting out 250W RMS.

I was originally planning on just chucking it in as is, unfortunately the new cars headunit only runs the front speakers, and theres a small amp in the rear side panel that runs the OE sub and rear speakers. This highlighted a number of problems, first off my sub enclosure wasnt going to fit, unless i removed the existing sub and amp, which meant i'd need to rewire the rear speakers into the head unit. After some thinking i went shopping and got a bit carried away:

Baught myself a JBL GTO 4000 amp to run the four door speakers, and then after nearly falling over at the price of amp wiring kits, decided i'd be better off making my own.
Ordered up 5m of 25mm^2 welding cable, a two way fused distribution block and a pair of 40A fuses, an extra phono lead, 20m of 1.5mm speaker cable and a bigger (80A) fuse for my existing fuse holder, and it all cost significantly less than an off the shelf 4guage kit.

I also decided i'd modify my sub box a little. The original setup had the speaker cable poked out thru a hole drilled in the corner of the box:

Problem was it wasnt sealed particularly well, so i decided to remove it and look at ways to improve it. Came up with this:

Drilled a couple of holes in the rear of the box, and used a pair of M6 bolts to create a pair of signal posts. Sealed the bolts to the box with tigerseal. I then found a bit of wiring loom from my old discovery which had some nice heavy guage cable and a plug. I will solder the speaker cable to the other side of the plug, giving me a nice easy quick release system when i need to move the sub (it blocks access to the spare wheel well)

Started to install it all in the car, but didnt quite get it all finished. At the moment the JBL is powering the front speakers only, just to give dawn some tunes tomorrow morning, and the other amp and the rear speakers arent connected. Tomorrows task is to pull the wheel arch trim and remove the OE sub, patch into the rear speaker wiring, fit the sub and finish off the wiring to the second amp and tidy everything up!

 

[phoenixv6quattro]

All that lots going to make for a very nice sounding system! Amy plans to "upgrade" the front door spaekers/tweeters or are you leaving them OE?

 

[aragorn]

OE for now, i was relatively happy with them in the old car running off the head unit, as because the subs providing proper bass fill, your able to leave the head units equaliser on "flat" so reducing the bass load on the main speakers. I'm hoping this setup will improve things further.

The biggest issue with the stock speakers is they distort when pushed hard, but because the JBL has a high pass filter, i can cut out some of the bass (which the sub will be handling instead) which takes the heat off the stock speakers somewhat, and stops the bass distortion muddying up the sound. Its also pushing about twice the power of the head unit. The HU was rated at 27w RMS per channel, JBL is outputting 50w per channel. Amusingly, it actually sounds better already, only running the two front speakers, than the concert system managed with all four and its sub!

Clearly the option is there to upgrade the speakers, everythings in place, but its a big job because of the way they're mounted. Most cars have the speakers bolted to the door itself, with them poking thru a grille in the door card. Audi thaught it would be a good idea to mount them to the card itself, meaning the speaker is securely mounted to a big floppy bit of cardboard. If i was going to spend some cash on upgrading them, it would have to involve sound deadening the door cards and doing as much as possible to stiffen the mounting area.

I've seen some awesome builds on talkaudio, including one where the guys fiberglassed some 7" steel rings into the door card and mounted some (rather expensive) 7" components. Tasty, but most likely outside my skill level!

 

[Foxmeister]

Defo go for components up front, always had them in cars and make an amazing sound quality for car stereo. Last set i had were Focal, very good products.

Ive had aftermarket stereo in my cars for nearly 10yrs or so now, always outclasses oem fitted stuff imo, and with building it up after so long the main amp wiring costs iro £2-300 alone with oxygen free RCA's, 0gauge power etc, expensive stuff but worth it in the long run, all helps with better quality sound distribution.

JBL stuffs pretty good going, like their amps and speakers are good quality too. Looks like a good start you've got going, be good to see it done. Got to start mine soon too!

 

[ian52]

Im only running the front speakers as the amp was dead when i bought the car 2 years ago! Its depressingly naff. My wifes 1999 astra has a much better sounding stereo as standard. I keep meaning to run some speaker cable to the rear shelf so they work at least but cant be ***** to be honest.

 

[phoenixv6quattro]

Foxy, I currently have all in one door speakers(built in tweeter) made by Pioneer. TBH they are naff and I am upgrading to components. I saw these.....http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/3967/referer/rc_googleproduct.html

I'm going to be buying a set alomg with a new HU and sub/amp. What components are you running at the mo, and are they any good? I run just the fronts, as the rears were dead when I bought the car so they have been removed.

 

[aragorn]

Defo go for components up front, always had them in cars and make an amazing sound quality for car stereo. Last set i had were Focal, very good products.

Ive had aftermarket stereo in my cars for nearly 10yrs or so now, always outclasses oem fitted stuff imo, and with building it up after so long the main amp wiring costs iro £2-300 alone with oxygen free RCA's, 0gauge power etc, expensive stuff but worth it in the long run, all helps with better quality sound distribution.

JBL stuffs pretty good going, like their amps and speakers are good quality too. Looks like a good start you've got going, be good to see it done. Got to start mine soon too!

Got most of the install finished off today. Will get some pics up shortly. I'm seriously impressed with the difference the amp has made to the stock speakers. You can really crank it up to ear splitting volume with no noticable distortion, and it has a decent punch.

I dont see how you could spend £2-300 to wire the amps up? 50mm^2 cable (ie 0AWG) is available on ebay for a fiver a meter. Tenner a pop gets you a good quality RCA. Decent distibution blocks might cost £50? Still nowhere near 2-300quid, just need to shop around!

I'll go get these pics sorted!

 

[Foxmeister]

Got most of the install finished off today. Will get some pics up shortly. I'm seriously impressed with the difference the amp has made to the stock speakers. You can really crank it up to ear splitting volume with no noticable distortion, and it has a decent punch.

I dont see how you could spend £2-300 to wire the amps up? 50mm^2 cable (ie 0AWG) is available on ebay for a fiver a meter. Tenner a pop gets you a good quality RCA. Decent distibution blocks might cost £50? Still nowhere near 2-300quid, just need to shop around!

I'll go get these pics sorted!

I have a capacitor etc aswell, gold plated distribution block so on so forth. RCA's alone for two sets for four channel amps were £50 odd.

"£10 a pop" wont get you quality RCA's, they'll do the job yes but when you buy more expensive quality speakers etc you cant scrimp on cheaper cables. Being an electrician you learn that the small differences can make a big impact on these type of things, hence why i started with a Halfords special amp wiring kit that cost £25 years ago and slowly built up to this.

 

[Foxmeister]

Foxy, I currently have all in one door speakers(built in tweeter) made by Pioneer. TBH they are naff and I am upgrading to components. I saw these.....http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/3967/referer/rc_googleproduct.html

I'm going to be buying a set alomg with a new HU and sub/amp. What components are you running at the mo, and are they any good? I run just the fronts, as the rears were dead when I bought the car so they have been removed.

I have used Focal for the last 5yrs or so Ollie and theyre quality made stuff, built from kevlar means theyre very robust and handle good power. I decided to sell them with my last BMW i sold as i had custom door builds made for it.

Havent used Rainbow personally but heard they are good quality also, i asked for best type of speakers for the B5 and was referred to these. Im in 2 minds for the fronts in the Audi, its either another set of Focals or Rainbows. In terms of cost the Rainbows are less but would prefer to hear them in action 1st. Saying that they have been on the scene long enuff and always get good write ups, think i'd go for these aswell mate.

 

[aragorn]

Phoenix: the problem with any additional speakers in a B5 is their mounting, You really need to make sure they're really solidly mounted, and that the adaptor doesnt interfere with the cone.

I fitted some half decent infinity components to the old car, and they sounded worse than the stock speakers due to the adaptors.

Best way is probably some MDF rings well sealed to the door card.

Pics of todays work:

Spliced into the rear speakers at the old amp wiring, and braught the sub loom into the same area.

Completed install:

No pics of the front end yet, because its not finished, the HU is just jammed into the dash without any proper adaptors etc.

Needs a bit of tweaking to get the gains etc just right, and i need to fix the earth cable for the sub amp as at the moment its a little bodged.

Really impressed with how it sounds though. I'm glad i did it!

 

[aragorn]

I have a capacitor etc aswell, gold plated distribution block so on so forth. RCA's alone for two sets for four channel amps were £50 odd.

"£10 a pop" wont get you quality RCA's, they'll do the job yes but when you buy more expensive quality speakers etc you cant scrimp on cheaper cables. Being an electrician you learn that the small differences can make a big impact on these type of things, hence why i started with a Halfords special amp wiring kit that cost £25 years ago and slowly built up to this.

Best way to go is build the RCA's yourself. I just went with Autoleads ones, but if i was wanting a full on system i'd be buying some high quality cable and making my own, rather than buying them pre-made with the huge markup you end up with!

Also, capacitors dont really work, take a look here for a nice detailed writeup: http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=82678

 

[Foxmeister]

Best way to go is build the RCA's yourself. I just went with Autoleads ones, but if i was wanting a full on system i'd be buying some high quality cable and making my own, rather than buying them pre-made with the huge markup you end up with!

Also, capacitors dont really work, take a look here for a nice detailed writeup: http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=82678

Yes sure, best way is to build yourself if you can get the oxygen free cable, connectors etc but by the time you price it all up its not much of a difference.

There isnt one thing on the internet thats gonna get 100 percent agreement from everybody as they all have their own opinoins. Personally i see the difference in having the cap, as it doesnt weaken the charge from the cars standard charge when operating i.e lights, windows etc that i had before fitting it. If it was a competition type install then a 2nd battery would be the option but the cost of that is greater than the setup i have. The comment on the bass zapping power is entirely the point of the capacitor i.e the major power draw is for that particular component and not of the cars battery which it then regains! Also the amp is powered from the cap in line and not from the car battery as stated in that link

Just because some people comment on a forum related to car audio it doesnt make them "specialists" in that subject, but if thats how you base all your facts then so be it as most of your knowledge is based on that kinda thing. Im not getting into a rant or that, you do yours your way and i'll stick to mine. Good luck with wotever you do.

 

[phoenixv6quattro]

Eay fellas!!LOL!!.....Yes the mountings are rather perculiar on the B5! I bought the adapters and got some thin adhesive foam strips ith them to fill the gap as the speaker dosn't fit flush to the mount. If I could really be ***** then I would Dynamatt the whole doorcard and build some custom mounts, but truth be told ICE has never been a priority for me, don't get me wrong that isn't an excuse for not doing things properly either. Foxy, do you know if the Rainbows or indeed the Focals will fit the B5 (what I mean by that is, is there sufficient mounting DEPTH for them on the doors)? This new ICE enthusiasm of mine has come from a mates 2004 A6 with the full Bose option that I borrowed on Tuesday. Compared to mine, and with my Ipod plugged in, it sounded absolutely AMAZING!! So much more enjoyable listening to Clapton and Dire Straits! To name but a few... LOL!!

 

[aragorn]

Mate did you actually read the huge write up at the end of the thread?

The guy goes into detail about the physics behind the cap, and does real world tests with some pretty high end equipment, and posts all the results. Its hefty reading, but the guy explains it well.

Theres a huge difference between "some people" commenting on a car audio forum, and someone posting the results of scientific testing. Read the thread properly, before knocking my "knowldege".

 

[Foxmeister]

I dont have first hand experience in the B5 yet Ollie, but as said when i asked i was told Rainbows are a common fit for them. Maybe google them to find mounting depths, cone widths etc and cross reference them to any others your thinking off, but i'd maybe go with them as other people seem to have fitted them without too much hassle. Proper builds will also make a major difference as any air loss into the door itself will hinder sound reproduction. Had a pro do my builds before but im gonna tackle my own for the Audi, watch this space.

 

[aragorn]

Eay fellas!!LOL!!.....Yes the mountings are rather perculiar on the B5! I bought the adapters and got some thin adhesive foam strips ith them to fill the gap as the speaker dosn't fit flush to the mount. If I could really be ***** then I would Dynamatt the whole doorcard and build some custom mounts, but truth be told ICE has never been a priority for me, don't get me wrong that isn't an excuse for not doing things properly either. Foxy, do you know if the Rainbows or indeed the Focals will fit the B5 (what I mean by that is, is there sufficient mounting DEPTH for them on the doors)? This new ICE enthusiasm of mine has come from a mates 2004 A6 with the full Bose option that I borrowed on Tuesday. Compared to mine, and with my Ipod plugged in, it sounded absolutely AMAZING!! So much more enjoyable listening to Clapton and Dire Straits! To name but a few... LOL!!

I found on the infinitys that the edge of the adaptor was touching the cones rubber support, which was really damping the output. Might be worth checking that on yours!

Someone on here made up some MDF rings, AndyMac maybe? Thats probably the way to go if your going to fit aftermarket speakers!

 

[Broken Byzan]

I had a full competition setup, 3 way active, 4 amps, crossover, NO CAP !!!

Once you discharge the cap with a big drop, it then needs to recharge, so it draws energy from your battery or alternator, ADDING load to your set up. Instead of sticking a plaster over the charging system shortfall, fit a decent battery and alternator, they are both designed to give power instantly .

Thats my take on it, from my days where i had the triple screened RCAs hand made to spec, 16WG speakers wires,0WG power and earths wires 4 x PHASS competion amps and 3way fully active setup. All the cap did in my system before i saw the light was draw unecessary energy and give me a pretty voltmeter

 

[Foxmeister]

As a qaulified ELECTRICIAN im fully aware of the purpose of a capacitor and its purpose in the role its exposed too as i come ascross these components on a regular basis.

As previously stated if this is wot u base you knowledge upon( or someone elses for that matter) then so be it, but i dont personally believe everything i read from somebody on a forum that ran one test supposedly. If capacitors werent doing their job in hand they would not be used for any purpose other than car audio as they arent a cheap component to integrate into any system. FYI this my and others findings from a qualified background.

As stated, if this is your findings from reading certain forums or such then so be it, that is your decision. You dont have to take any advice from me or anybody else and such that is your perogative.

I'll let you get on with it.

 

[Broken Byzan]

I am not even going to furnish you with my qualifications, i see no need, but I found the addition of a cap to be pointless, and so did the other people i mingled with at the competions i went to.

It's all personal choice and opinion, i base my decision on my personal opinion and not from what i have read on other forums.

/end hijack.
This thread will be thinned out if it continues to stray off topic
All yours Aragorn.

 

[phoenixv6quattro]

Thin it out mate. It will only go from bad to worse! YOU KNOW IT WILL!!! LMAO!!!

 

[andybnwc]

Ive been fitting caps for years and to be honest never really seen the benefit apart from 1 low drop however on fitting slip charge systems its a completly different ball game . Ive pulled many a cap out and replaced with a bat mainly on smaller cars its a must with a big system. however with our powerful cars an average system would just be fine. Oh and thats a nice neat install .

Focals do fit but most of the range is quite flush so would need custom adaptors and the fronts are never gonna sound as good as a normal mount unless exstensive mods to the doors and cards are done also relocate the tweeters into the A pillars totally transform the sound.

 

[phoenixv6quattro]

Thanks buddy. I was actually thinking about puttinf the standard door speakers back in and mounting the tweeters on the A-pillars as suggested by yourself. I will however be installing a sub too. I had a ride in RasA4's car a few months back, and I think he said he was running normal speakers with a sub/amp, and his system sounded really good! So i might do just that!

 

[Foxmeister]

For information, i use a cap to lessen the ripple supply to the amp when on demand which in theory should benefit the sound. Horses for courses an all that.

Dont want to get somebodys thread locked either so im leaving it at that.

 

[aragorn]

Phoenix: If you happen to be at GTI and want a listen of this then just ask.

I like good quality music (so much so that listening to the radio or crappy quality mp3's really ****** me off), but i've never been in a position financially to have been able to spend hundreds of pounds on top notch kit. Obviously as you get older (i'm only 25!) you get more finanically stable, allowing me to do more. This is the most i've ever spent on car audio, and i'm impressed with the results that can be had for such little expenditure. I guess it makes sense, driving a good quality signal into some iffy speakers is always going to sound better than driving a crappy signal into some top notch components.

I'm quite sure that if i had a listen to a proper SQ install it would be breathtaking and i'd want a system to match it, but as it stands I'm pleased with the results, and for the money spent (£50 on the amp, and about 25-30 quid on the rest of the bits to install it), i'd recommend this as a first step to anyone wanting to modify the sounds on their B5. I've got quite a few other things on the car that needs attention before i do much more to the sounds, like the timing belt, suspension etc.

Need to get the bits to fix the earth on one of the amps, and finish off the front end, and thats probably how it will stay for quite a while! I'm also building a pre-amplifier for my ipod, as theres a bit of a level issue meaning the head unit needs cranked up really far to get a normal volume out of it, so i'll get some photos of that up once its done!

 

[Oranoco]

My install in my current A4 consists of an Alpine 9812RB deck (doesn't blend in with the dash at all but sounds good). This has the onboard amplifier turned off and runs to three amplifiers. Kenwood PS3100T that runs Focal components in the front doors, a Kenwood 626 that runs a set of Kenwood Dualmags on the rear shelf and a Kenwood KAC9105 that runs 2 Kicker 12's. It needs some final tweeking but sounds pretty good. Was enough when I was driving a lady friend home last night. She said "Oo I love this song" and promptly whacked the volume up, then went white as a sheet.

Car audio is a thing of great personal preference so I don't think it can be said there's a certain right way. There are certainly some ground rules but stuff like power caps and such like is an individual thing

 

[phoenixv6quattro]

Thanks Aragorn, but due to work an upcoming contract at work I will not be able to make it (****** shame as it would be very nice to put a face to all these user names I know so well now!!)....I have decided to keep my install pretty simple. I have just sourced some brand new OE front door speakers and tweeters (I will be locating the tweeters as suggested at head level on the A pillars) that will be replacing my current aftermarket pioneers (£40.00 co-axial.....what did I expect! There bound to be naff!!!). I am getting an active single 12" sub and this head unit.......http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pioneer-mvh-8200.html........From reading reviews it's the best sub £300 HU around at the moment and you can store thousands of tracks/videos via memory card! Its also ipod specific and plays videos on a very high quality screen! In the post let you guys know what its like...

 

[Oranoco]

I would mount them in the standard position to be brutal mate. It might sound bright and loud with them on the top of the A-pilar but I can't see it sounding nice at all as the imaging will be screwed

 

[phoenixv6quattro]

Many thanks for the advice buddy. I will bear that in mind.

 

[rasA4]

Someone on here made up some MDF rings, AndyMac maybe? Thats probably the way to go if your going to fit aftermarket speakers!

interesting thread... yes its is AndyMac