RS3 spied!!

paddy said:
Yes but if £38k is correct then you have to add another £5k at least to get it to a spec that any other make would call std. so a minimum of £43k for an A3 ? Sorry but you would have to have a screw loose to pay £8k more than a 3ltr supercharged S4 in basic trim for a souped up A3.
Click to expand...

I think we should create a list of all the cars that we would buy for 38k before we bought an A3....

3 year old M6 anyone?
Would depreciate more slowly as well...
 
paddy said:
But somewhere along the line people must realise they are being ripped off ? If Audi can make a supercharged 3ltr v6 with brakes to stop it and suspension to handle the power...for an S4 for £36k....then you aint getting good value with an A3 at £38k
An RS badge means nothing !! its just a badge...99% of the population wouldn't know what it meant over any other badge...I mean a Skoda has an RS badge...If you want street cred or just want to feel proud when you park it up your not going to be buying an Audi anyway..
Maybe its just me but if someone wants to pay £40k+ for a badged up A3.....then i suppose its up to them.
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Hmmm have you specced an S4?
I did and to my spec it was nearly £50k
An RS3 would be basic spec £38k if rumours are to be belived. My guess is buckets and extended leather would be standard. So tops you'd be spending maybe £4k on options for a nicely specced one.
Finally it will have better anchors than the S4 and will be lighter.
Define good value?
I think it will be a great car if it launches :)
 
paddy said:
But somewhere along the line people must realise they are being ripped off ? If Audi can make a supercharged 3ltr v6 with brakes to stop it and suspension to handle the power...for an S4 for £36k....then you aint getting good value with an A3 at £38k
An RS badge means nothing !! its just a badge...99% of the population wouldn't know what it meant over any other badge...I mean a Skoda has an RS badge...If you want street cred or just want to feel proud when you park it up your not going to be buying an Audi anyway..
Maybe its just me but if someone wants to pay £40k+ for a badged up A3.....then i suppose its up to them.
Click to expand...

But for a £38k on an S4 your going to need an extra 5K minimum to spec it up to the levels a car like that should be, with full RNS-E, bluetooth phone etc.
 
The comment on that link says it all for me tbh

"sorry, but i don't care how fast it can blast off the lights this car won't be "special" enough to part with £38,000 (plus the required £7000 of Audi options to complete the car)"

TBH for 40k I'd buy a Cayman :undwech:
 
All i am saying is your starting point on the RS3 is £2k more than the starting point on a S4... and the S4 is a bigger more complex car to start off with.. You simply cant say that putting a 5cyl turbo engine in a S3 is so much more expensive than a supercharged V6 bearing in mind the S3 should have had the 5cyl engine anyway if it was going to be a big enough leap forward from the 3.2..
This has always been Audis big problem !! If you allow a customer to spec their car from scratch and charge silly money for that spec...like £1200 for a sat nav !! and a couple of grand for some seats !!then the cost of your cars becomes ridiculous and model pricing runs wild. This is why you cant buy a quattro S-tronic 2.0TD A3 i because the basic price would be more than a S3 !! and it would become the range topper !!
 
It's like any premium car though.
Have you tried speccing up a Cayman? You could easily have one costing £60k
The S4, for it's size (and foooook me it is a big car!) is a lot of car for the money, but the basic car is, well, erm, basic! You get more standard equipment on an S3!!!
So in order to take an S4 at a nice spec you have to spend quite a lot of cash... and then it still is an S car and not an RS car...
The RS car's tend to have significant investment in the engine, drive train, suspension and brakes... that's what you're getting for your £38k.
And tbh if I had the choice of an a basic RS3 @ £38k or a loaded Golf R @ £38k or a semi specc'd up S4 @ £38k i'd take the RS3 option every day of the week... trust me, when you hear one of these engines in full chat you would too ;)
 
If this comes out for 38k then why would anyone sane by a Golf R for 37k instead?
 
To be honest Jamie i wouldn't take a golf at £38k or a RS3 !! and if it came down to noise then I would have my V6. I fully respect others opinions and choices so dont get me wrong ! I'm just voicing a personal opinion.
Audi would need to really get there house in order if i was going to spend that sort of money and speaking as someone who's car is yet again back at Audi's for the 3rd time already this year and someone who has had bills in excess of £3k just to keep the thing on the road over 3 years and 28k miles ( and looking at another £1k next week) my view is that Audi are now where Merc was 5 years ago and if you are going to charge premium prices then people want reliability, excellent after sales service and a premium product...
 
Well that's your point of view clearly relayed through the post Paddy. Lol..we understand..you would rather have the S4...Let's move on..some will like it..some will not....Oh..and about the cayman..if it's brand new..no way on hell are you getting one for £40k with decent spec. Though I do like...but totally different class category..
 
paddy said:
But somewhere along the line people must realise they are being ripped off ? If Audi can make a supercharged 3ltr v6 with brakes to stop it and suspension to handle the power...for an S4 for £36k....then you aint getting good value with an A3 at £38k
An RS badge means nothing !! its just a badge...99% of the population wouldn't know what it meant over any other badge...I mean a Skoda has an RS badge...If you want street cred or just want to feel proud when you park it up your not going to be buying an Audi anyway..
Maybe its just me but if someone wants to pay £40k+ for a badged up A3.....then i suppose its up to them.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree with you Paddy. We may be divided on the V6/2.0T discussion, but what I fear the most is that Audi glue an R to the back of an S3, drop in a 2.5 engine and some big brakes, then pat themselves and the company accountants on the back for a job well done.

The S3 was NEVER a big enough step up over the S-Line, and to me watered down the ethos of the 'S' badge. There is a huge risk the same could actually happen with this RS. You can bet your man veg that Audi will not start with the £14k base model and think:

1) Lets strengthen / stiffen the floor pan
2) Lets replace the bonnet, wings and put aluminium ones on
3) Lets lighten the car where possible, get it set up properly and make it a focussed driver car (as much as you can with this old skool platform)

At least BMW make the M cars from more bespoke underpinnings, if the RS test mule is to be believed they may already have fallen at the first hurdle as all I can see are bigger sills and some bumper jewellery.

I've realised on this journey with the S3 that whilst speed is great, and straight line bursts are exhilarating, it doesn't necessarily make for a monumental overall driving experience, and with a well specced RS3 likely to cost knocking on the door of £44k it has strayed into territory where the competition could make it look stupid. It's still a £14k family hatchback, no matter what magic it's tickled with. I pray (if it is released) Audi do the honest thing and get it right, as otherwise it may be a clear indicator that the brand has become primarily focussed on customer exploitation through the pretensions of badging rather than delivering a cutting edge product that will be remembered by reputation (Focus RS whilst not faultless seems to win this accolade). The S3 even now is not on Forza 3, and never makes it into any all time greats lists, and I think that speaks volumes.
 
^^^ Some very good points well made.
 
"I'm inclined to agree with you Paddy. We may be divided on the V6/2.0T discussion, but what I fear the most is that Audi...... "

We are not divided mate..its just friendly rivalry and banter : Personally i think they are both great engines..its just horses for coarses and already the big engines are becoming dinosaur's
 
At 38k, it would be almost fully loaded, just like other RS


A fully loaded Golf R or Honda Mugen are around 40k
 
tku said:
Oh..and about the cayman..if it's brand new..no way on hell are you getting one for £40k with decent spec
Click to expand...

If you had followed the whole century discussions on caymans, s3's etc etc on ASN, you would know it was a tongue in cheek comment given its been discussed to death, Cayman name mentioning is a prerequisite for these thread types, cost was irrelevant!!!!
 
warrencox said:
I'm inclined to agree with you Paddy. We may be divided on the V6/2.0T discussion, but what I fear the most is that Audi glue an R to the back of an S3, drop in a 2.5 engine and some big brakes, then pat themselves and the company accountants on the back for a job well done.

The S3 was NEVER a big enough step up over the S-Line, and to me watered down the ethos of the 'S' badge. There is a huge risk the same could actually happen with this RS. You can bet your man veg that Audi will not start with the £14k base model and think:

1) Lets strengthen / stiffen the floor pan
2) Lets replace the bonnet, wings and put aluminium ones on
3) Lets lighten the car where possible, get it set up properly and make it a focussed driver car (as much as you can with this old skool platform)

At least BMW make the M cars from more bespoke underpinnings, if the RS test mule is to be believed they may already have fallen at the first hurdle as all I can see are bigger sills and some bumper jewellery.

I've realised on this journey with the S3 that whilst speed is great, and straight line bursts are exhilarating, it doesn't necessarily make for a monumental overall driving experience, and with a well specced RS3 likely to cost knocking on the door of £44k it has strayed into territory where the competition could make it look stupid. It's still a £14k family hatchback, no matter what magic it's tickled with. I pray (if it is released) Audi do the honest thing and get it right, as otherwise it may be a clear indicator that the brand has become primarily focussed on customer exploitation through the pretensions of badging rather than delivering a cutting edge product that will be remembered by reputation (Focus RS whilst not faultless seems to win this accolade). The S3 even now is not on Forza 3, and never makes it into any all time greats lists, and I think that speaks volumes.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'm with you on this one Warren.
Versus an S-line I found the S a big step forward. Effort and investment had gone in to lightning the suspension and developing the engine with the K04, which meant no budget was left for the flared arches etc. You are right on the limitations of developing a car that is based on a humble family hatch, but is that not the same as the RS4, RS6, RS5.... and M3's for that matter.
The test mule is exactly that, a test mule and that Orange one n my opinion is investigating cooling, hence the messy intakes etc. Look a little closer and you'll notice a wider front track with the arches rolled.. clearly an indicator that they are trying to develop some more 'pointiness' in to the steering of the car and dial out understeer.
S3 isn't on Forza as it isn't available in the states so Audi won't want it on the game, and besides, as a game developer, your going to push to get licences on the RS cars aren't you...
Focus RS.... hmmm, yeah.... great if you like to arm wrestle your way down a road....

Sounds liek you've fallen out of love with the S though Warren... :(
 
I see the price £44k being spoken about, just as an added thought a brand new RS3 at £44k for example or a second hand nissan GTR at £45k I know servicing etc will cost more but just a thought.
 
Frankly I don't believe any of this for one second. Apart from the price issue that's already been pointed out, why would Audi produce an RS3 version of a model which is being replaced altogether next year? More to the point, why would anyone pay £40k+ for something that will be based on "yesterday's model" within a year?

Makes no sense at all.
 
Jamiekip said:
I'm not sure I'm with you on this one Warren.
Versus an S-line I found the S a big step forward. Effort and investment had gone in to lightning the suspension and developing the engine with the K04, which meant no budget was left for the flared arches etc. You are right on the limitations of developing a car that is based on a humble family hatch, but is that not the same as the RS4, RS6, RS5.... and M3's for that matter.
Click to expand...

I can't help but feel the bigger platforms are built to take more abuse/performance than the A3. The 8L was never showered with praise for it's poise or capabilities, and whilst the 8P is a step forward, I think they have done the best they could by lightening some of the suspension components. I agree the S3 will be better, but I'm not sure it feels night and day beyond the S-Line.

Jamiekip said:
The test mule is exactly that, a test mule and that Orange one n my opinion is investigating cooling, hence the messy intakes etc. Look a little closer and you'll notice a wider front track with the arches rolled.. clearly an indicator that they are trying to develop some more 'pointiness' in to the steering of the car and dial out understeer.
Click to expand...

I hope they do. The fact the S3 runs a cut down version of Haldex delivering predominantly front drive means that even with a wider track it won't necessarily dial all of that out. It doesn't help that I was running OEM suspension on the Ring, but I found it a touch vague and understeery, and whilst the car felt like it was performing electronic miracles underneath me on the slightly damp greasy surface, it wasn't overburdened with feel.


Jamiekip said:
S3 isn't on Forza as it isn't available in the states so Audi won't want it on the game, and besides, as a game developer, your going to push to get licences on the RS cars aren't you...
Focus RS.... hmmm, yeah.... great if you like to arm wrestle your way down a road....

Sounds liek you've fallen out of love with the S though Warren... :(
Click to expand...

To throw challenge to your Forza logic, the Leon Cupra R Mk2 (just launched) has appeared in the car list, and isn't available in the States either (in fact the Leon isn't full stop as far as I am aware), so I don't think that is the reason.

I wasn't condoning the Focus RS as a better car, but people will remember it as a more iconic product far and beyond the S3's of any genre. Don't get me wrong, I know I'm harsh on the S3 at times, but then I feel compelled to be as it owes me enjoyment for it's price tag. Never been a fan boy of any car just because I happen to own one, but you only have to look at things like fuel system limitations, clutch related issues, misfire problems etc.., and the S3 is not bulletproof or iconic. It's a lovely car, and at times I've really enjoyed the ownership when it's all working well. I just really hope that if this 'elusive' and much documented RS3 arrives it doesn't feel quite so close to the edge of it's limits as the S3 can feel at times.

Always happy for all / any different opinions Jamie, good to throw every option on the table and consider everything as it enriches the forum.
 
I hear what your saying mate I really do.
If your that worried about the RS3 not been different enough from the S3 thendo what I did and get the TT-RS. It is sigificantly different to the S3/A3 driving experience. Your lower to the ground which gives a much more sporty feel. And now I've passed 1000 miles and I can finally open her up I have to say this 5 cylinder engine is a gem. Full torque from 1600rpm to the redline the rate it piles on speed is awesome :)
very happy with my choice
 
Yea but if we are talking appearance...does a TTRS any look different from a TTS ? which is where Warren was coming from re: S3 and S-line ?
 
NHN said:
If you had followed the whole century discussions on caymans, s3's etc etc on ASN, you would know it was a tongue in cheek comment given its been discussed to death, Cayman name mentioning is a prerequisite for these thread types, cost was irrelevant!!!!
Click to expand...

Sorry mr NHN! lol doh!
 
Jamie, as much as I'd love to the TT-RS is just too expensive for us right now. I can only imagine how much the monthly repayments would be!!

I think it's the right car, but until the recession lifts and our industry sector picks up it is a risk too far! We are thinking about changing cars in the next 6 months, and have decided not to spend more than £30-35k to replace the S3 given the state of the world.

I have a horrible feeling about interest rates on mortgages in the next couple of years, so whilst it would just about be achievable to finance a TT-RS, it wouldn't leave anywhere near enough slack when we all start having to pay the cost of our Governments recent spending spree .
 
paddy said:
Yea but if we are talking appearance...does a TTRS any look different from a TTS ? which is where Warren was coming from re: S3 and S-line ?
Click to expand...
It doesnt! ..Well apart from some blunt air intakes and a fixed wing...To be fair you are paying for that engine and the badge....TTS or RS looks great either way...not to everyone's taste but my sister has an 'S' and it does sexy lol........And about the above comment about the car being old...I actually think it is just because the competition are bringing out high powered hatches/mini coupes that they are actually considering it.....Unless we are all wrong for that matter and it is actually a test mule for the future model on a different platform.
 
paddy said:
Yes but if £38k is correct then you have to add another £5k at least to get it to a spec that any other make would call std. so a minimum of £43k for an A3 ? Sorry but you would have to have a screw loose to pay £8k more than a 3ltr supercharged S4 in basic trim for a souped up A3.
Click to expand...

Well paddy I have to agree. I have a screw loose as I paid £33K for an S3. To go £10K more for 75HP is quite a fair few screws IMHO. :blink: OK I have got a box load I'll admit it, as I do want one, but given TT-RS at my dealer is 42K with a few options and I consider that rather steep. I guess i'll just have to get a 6-12 month old one and wait a while...

I just hope we get to see flared wheel arches. If its the one thing Audi did it wrong this time with the S3 it was to take these away from the Mk2, I still miss them from my Mk1... :(
 
For 40+k I'd be expecting a real drivers car with top quality finnishing and top quality reliability none of which the RS3 will have I fear! If it has the 5 cylinder engine then it will obviously sound great and go like stink in a straight line like all the other RS cars but you just have to read some of the reviews in all the top car mags: RS5... Blunt steering, driver feels detatched from what cars actually doing but great engine, TT-RS same story. Only the RS4 got close to being a drivers car and even it understeered on the limit and nowadays the steering is descibed as being numb! Somehow I can't see how the RS3 on it's aincient platform will be any different!
 
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I was hoping the RS5 was going to get better reviews as I've driven and would really like an RS4 avant and expected prices to take a big dip once the 5 came out. I can't see many RS4 drivers trading in for something which is going to leave them detatched from driving experience! I know the mags don't always get it right but when the majority are singing from the same hyme sheet you've got to wonder!
 
The problem with car mags is that they take a car, drive it at 10 10ths for the day, on track and challenging B roads. And if it doesnt wag its tail on the exit of every corner and flatter their driving then its `rubbish`.

Rarely do they consider `ownership experience`and what its like to live with day to day. most of us only drive our cars hard 5% of the time, what about the other 95% ? Going to ASDA, shipping kids about, sitting in traffic jams...?

If you read the `long termers` in EVO for example, you often hear the `owners` speak fondly of cars that were originally panned in the original reviews.

IMO Car mags are great for reading on the bog, but not much else.
From experience I would NEVER base a car purchase on a mag review.

Ive said this before in another thread, Jason Plato said the TTRS was best in class, EVO said it was poor.
How come? its the same car, who do you believe?
Mini Rant over

Cheers:sm4:
Paul
 
Exactly Paul.

And tbh, the reviews on the RS5 actually appeal to me.
"Masses of mechanical grip"
"Consider this car as a cheaper Bently Conti GT, continent crushing ability"

I don't know what people expect from fast Audi's.
It's been said over and over again, if you want driver involvement, masses of feel and the ability to power slide from corner to corner choosing an Audi is the wrong move!
Look at any 4WD Audi and take a good look where the engine is... be it an RS4, S3, TT-RS, RS6 or 3.0TDI. The majority of the engine will be in front of the front axle... just becuase it has an S or RS badge in it will not suddenly change the laws of physics.
And don't confuse this little rant as me becoing a 'hater' for all things sporty Audi, far from it, I think given the engineering constraints they are working in, they do a fantastic job at making these cars do what they do. I loved my S3's and I've seriously fallen for the TT - it has exeeded my expectiations in pretty much every way.
I personally buy an S or RS Audi for the all round package.
Quick
Safe
Fun when you want it to be
Tuneable
Premium
Practical (even the TT is practicle for my needs - no kids to worry about)

In my humble opinion, the RS3 would tick all of the above boxes, even at £40k.
It will monster an S3, even a Stage 2+ S3 and lets not forget, for another £800 on a remap you'll have a hot hatch that will blow an RS4, RS5, RS6, M3, C63AMG..... in to the weeds.
Sounds like amazing value to me ;)
 
Well lets hope that they do make it and maybe it will be amazing, hope so! Lets also hope that it's reliable too as there are far too many people on here who have had issues with their cars far too often for the supposed "Premium" package you expect from Audi.
 
PaulAr said:
IMO Car mags are great for reading on the bog, but not much else.
From experience I would NEVER base a car purchase on a mag review.
Click to expand...

:iagree:

Jamiekip said:
I loved my S3's and I've seriously fallen for the TT - it has exeeded my expectiations in pretty much every way.
I personally buy an S or RS Audi for the all round package.
Click to expand...

:iagree:
 
I am beginning to wonder whether it's the way to go.

I drove an RS4 saloon the other day, and it was fantastic, but the running costs are double the S3 and whilst it was obviously far and above the better car, I'm now staring down the barrel of this dilemma:

57 RS4 Avant: £35,000 (30k miles - out of warranty - UK economy uncertain - if things got really bad you may not be able to give one of these away in 3 years with the 8 cylinder gas junkie lump!!)

10 S3: £32,000 (New - same running costs - will feel dull as ditch water after Stg 2+ - bored of blowing shed loads of cash on mods, want a car that does it all out of the box with a crafty remap - probably the wrong car)

11 RS3: £40,000 (New - running costs half way between RS4 and S3, only needs a remap to make it Stg2+ beater - yes people will think I'm mentally unhinged for spending that on an A3 - no change there then)
 
My guess will be that the RS3 will be more economical than the S3.... it's surprised me... getting on average 4mpg more no matter what I do :D
 
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Jamiekip said:
My guess will eb that the RS3 will be more economincal than the S3.... it's surprised me... getting on avergae 4mpg more no matter what I do :D
Click to expand...

Cheers for that Jamie, not content to own a TT-RS you get better fuel economy too!!! B@st@rd!!!

I've always been surprised for an engine that is believed to fuel efficient (and award winning two years running) that such average MPG's are on offer even when standard. People who don't know 'things' don't believe I am turning in 23-26mpg for run around mileage until you physically show them the trip, then they blame the mods. It's never been economical from day one. I once saw 36mpg on a motorway run with cruise set to 56mph.
 
warrencox said:
Cheers for that Jamie, not content to own a TT-RS you get better fuel economy too!!! B@st@rd!!!

I've always been surprised for an engine that is believed to fuel efficient (and award winning two years running) that such average MPG's are on offer even when standard. People who don't know 'things' don't believe I am turning in 23-26mpg for run around mileage until you physically show them the trip, then they blame the mods. It's never been economical from day one. I once saw 36mpg on a motorway run with cruise set to 56mph.
Click to expand...

My S3 was the same - life time avergae of 26mpg and remember about 80% of that cars life was going up and down the M1 in the middle of the night... should be good for economy.
The TT so far is delivering 29mpg average and I'm doing 50% motorway, 25% country lanes and 25% town and now this baby is over 1000 miles i am putting my foot down a lot more when conditions permit. I was expecting pi$$ poor economy, but getting the oppossite :D And it's not just an optimistic DIS - same size fuel tank and I'm getting about 40 miles more out of it ;)

Ohh, and I think (I never lived with stage 2+ so I may be off the mark here) the real world performance of a standard RS3 would humble an S3 Stage 2+. The power band is so much bigger due to the increased capacity - my car on a rolling road (lottery I know) was giving max torque at just over 2k rpm and holiding 75-80% of it until 6k rpm. To add insult to injury it would appear the stock engine is delivering way over queted figures too ;)

I know I sound like a 2.5 turbo whore, but this engine really is a corker which is why I think the RS3 would be quite the weapon :D
 
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I reiterate again Jamie, (lucky) b@st@rd!!!
 
Mate I went through the same hoops as you.
Out of warranty RS4 (not keen on the potential bills), new S3 (do I want to do the modding on that car again even though I do love it) , new S4 (mahoooooosive - simply to big a car for me)... It's why I had such an unhealthy obsession for the RS3 it ticked ALL the boxes.
Only I got impatient and bought the TT haha
are you going to inters? Will take you for a spin then ;)
 
Jamiekip said:
are you going to inters? Will take you for a spin then ;)
Click to expand...

Sore point, wife has just booked our summer holiday bang over it (I'm sure it wasn't her intention!). Think she's trying to save our clutch!!

Audi Driver International is the next event on our calendar unless I get up to the Pod to blow out the cobwebs. Would love a passenger ride Jamie, so just have to hope you come to ADI.

As the car could go back in September it puts me right in 'no mans land'. RS3 won't be anywhere in sight, and TTRS probably wont be anywhere near £35-38k. To be frank, I'm fecked as no other Audi's other than RS4 appeal. May have to buy the S3 (pay the bubble), then sell back to Audi as a trade in once RS3 announced.
 
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