Mk5 Golf GTI

[S3 Nattie]

...and a standard S3 is?

Basically nothing is standard.
16v with Cams, head, lightweight lifters / titanium retainers, big TB, re-map to give 190+ BHP, lower FD, C/R gearbox, Quaife diff, Koni coilovers, Eibach ARBs, poly bushes, aggressive alignment, S3 front brakes, braided hoses and track pads.

Lighter weight + better handling + stronger brakes + lower gearing + less understeer/more front end grip = quicker. Simple.

...and the Mk5 GTI has a far better chassis, with more power and torque.

Fair enough ESS. I thought you were comparing a standard S3 to a standard MK3 GTI. I do agree with you, a MK5 GTI does have a great chassis showing big bhp (VXR 240bhp) means nothing unless you can use it.

 

[S3 Nattie]

Warren I think you got it bang on, drivers ability. Everyone especially men think they could be F1 drivers, but most are just average drivers with a lot of show and no go. I aint making out im a brilliant drive although I did have driver of the day over a weekend out of about 400 people at a track day I had for my 18 which I was quite chuffed about. Track time is the best way how to understand how to handle a vehicle and knowing YOUR LIMITS, not the road. I haven't as of yet done as track day in my S3 yet but I race my go kart every now and them which is great fun,

 

[Ess_Three]

Fair enough ESS. I thought you were comparing a standard S3 to a standard MK3 GTI. I do agree with you, a MK5 GTI does have a great chassis showing big bhp (VXR 240bhp) means nothing unless you can use it.

Nope...but who would know to look at it. It's even badged as an 8v...and everyone knows Mk3 GTIs are slow and don't handle!

People make their mind up based on badge. An S3 is a better/faster/more upmarket car than a Mk5 GTI (yeah, right) to some...therefore it must be faster. Which is completely incorrect.
Nobody knows who was driving the GTI, or how modified it may have been...so it's just not possible to say that you (not 'you' presonally...but you get the idea) are surprised.

Lets put things into perpective:
A standard GTI Mk5 was just as quick down my favourite backroads as my old modified S3 (I drove them back to back....and only had a couple of hours in the Golf).
The chassis is just better...so map it, and it's got as much / more power than an S3, a better chassis, less weight and less transmission losses.

 

[S3 Nattie]

People make their mind up based on badge. An S3 is a better/faster/more upmarket car than a Mk5 GTI (yeah, right) to some...therefore it must be faster. Which is completely incorrect.

To a MK4 GTI it is though but not a MK5. 8P S3 is the better/faster/more upmarket car than a MK5 GTI.


Lets put things into perpective:
A standard GTI Mk5 was just as quick down my favourite backroads as my old modified S3 (I drove them back to back....and only had a couple of hours in the Golf).
The chassis is just better...so map it, and it's got as much / more power than an S3, a better chassis, less weight and less transmission losses.[/QUOTE]

I do agree they do have a great chassis but for straight line speed they aint as quick as a standard S3 from my experience. Always get MK5 GTI wanting a little play and they have always been in a straight line which my car (standard) pulls away slightly every time.

 

[MintyS3]

Ya know the thing that really gets me...... not only it was just as quick... i bet he's getting 30 to the gallon as well!!!!!

And you dont? I usually see a combined 35mpg. If I try I can get over 40mpg going into work. Not many 270bhp petrol cars on the larger side see that.

 

[Dansmith]

And you dont? I usually see a combined 35mpg. If I try I can get over 40mpg going into work. Not many 270bhp petrol cars on the larger side see that.

I'm lucky to get 25 out of mine! but then I mainly do short journeys so..

 

[IIIadidasboy]

Hmmmmmm......I hope non of this 'racing' is taking place on the queens highway

:busted_cop: BUSTED!!! LOL

 

[marcyp]

i had alittle play with the new ford rs at the weekend as we had pulled up side by side at the pumps, just got chattin to the guy who works for a car mag and that this is the second rs hes had so far,we both filled up paid and then decided to have alittle play, and to much to my amasement it didnt realy pull away an amsing amont, my remap qts is putting out around the 210bhp mark but when i looket up the power of the rs they are 296bhp fwd (the fastest fdw ford car ever made) but i think if it had a remap it would of been bye bye but just goes to show that a 8 year old car can still have some fun with todays hothatches

 

[Ess_Three]

To a MK4 GTI it is though but not a MK5. 8P S3 is the better/faster/more upmarket car than a MK5 GTI.

But we were talking about a Mk5.
The Mk4 was a hopeless effort. Worse than a Mk3 in my book.

And I still don't buy all the snobbish crap about a 8P being more upmarket than a Mk5 or (Mk6) GTI either. I'd take the GTI and leave the poncy image Audi now have for the fools who think 4 rings on the grill in some way makes them a more upmarket person.

The 8P S3 may be faster than a Mk5/6 GTI...but give them the same power and it's not.
8P more upmarket? That depends on who falls for Audis publicity bumf. Compare current models (Mk6 to 8P S3 and the S3 looks overpriced as there is no perceived quality differenced I can find)
Better?
That's very subjective...

I do agree they do have a great chassis but for straight line speed they aint as quick as a standard S3 from my experience. Always get MK5 GTI wanting a little play and they have always been in a straight line which my car (standard) pulls away slightly every time.

I think your experience is different to many.
A standard Mk5 GTI has similar torque to an 8L S3, revs higher, makes 25 BHP less but looses 25-30 less through transmission, weight less than the S3...and has a VASTLY better chassis.

Equal drivers will find straight line stuff (except perhaps off the line in the wet) equal...but the standard GTI will run rings round an S3 on the corners. As a result, the Mk5 GTI is a quicker car point to point, in my book/experience.

 

[Ess_Three]

And you dont? I usually see a combined 35mpg. If I try I can get over 40mpg going into work. Not many 270bhp petrol cars on the larger side see that.

What?
Is is something to do with how far north you are?

I was getting mid 20s out of mine...that is actually using the power.
I couldn't break 30 MPG taking it easy on a Motorway...never mind see 40.
Jesus, I struggle to get that out of my TDI.

I must find some lighter shoes...

 

[Gareth_RS3]

i had alittle play with the new ford rs at the weekend as we had pulled up side by side at the pumps, just got chattin to the guy who works for a car mag and that this is the second rs hes had so far,we both filled up paid and then decided to have alittle play, and to much to my amasement it didnt realy pull away an amsing amont, my remap qts is putting out around the 210bhp

My experience with a Mk5 GTI from when mine was running around 250bhp was that mine was quicker in all situations, saying that i would expect it to be really as i know his was standard.

off subject slightly but....

I cant see a TQS getting anywhere near a new focus rs in any conditions really unless the driver really poor but even still think you would be doing very well

 

[MintyS3]

What?
Is is something to do with how far north you are?

I was getting mid 20s out of mine...that is actually using the power.
I couldn't break 30 MPG taking it easy on a Motorway...never mind see 40.
Jesus, I struggle to get that out of my TDI.

I must find some lighter shoes...

Its the fresh air mate :icon_thumright:

 

[ianysm]

I cant see a TQS getting anywhere near a new focus rs in any conditions really unless the driver really poor but even still think you would be doing very well

I agree. I find it hard to believe a TQS can keep with a new RS. Perhaps a mapped S3 might be closer but still get a good seeing to! They have 324lb/ft torque (albeit not in 1st gear).

Interesting thread. I nearly got a MK5 GTI, they were just over budget though and i preferred the idea of 4wd since i drive alot on peak district roads all year round and previous experience tells me a remapped fwd hatch without an LSD just won't be any good (i'd have remapped the Golf immediately just as i did the S3!)

I had a play with an R32 before i remapped the S3 and it was very close though he was gradually edging away.

Had a test with a WRX (52 plate) last weekend too. Happily caught it up even though i began in 3rd and SHE was in 2nd! Also found a rather tatty M3 (51 plate) convertible that sounded ill and seemed very slow considering the noise it was making. Heavy posers cars anyway those convertibles!!!

Its all good fun!

Comments above about drivers and driver training are very true. Not many can get the most (safely) out of their cars and it makes a difference

 

[marcyp]

well tbh he did have his misses in the car with him so maby he wasnt giving it the full beans but it was for a standing start and 300bhp throw the frount wheels isnt anygood till your rolling

 

[S3 Nattie]

And I still don't buy all the snobbish crap about a 8P being more upmarket than a Mk5 or (Mk6) GTI either. I'd take the GTI and leave the poncy image Audi now have for the fools who think 4 rings on the grill in some way makes them a more upmarket person.

The 8P S3 may be faster than a Mk5/6 GTI...but give them the same power and it's not.
8P more upmarket? That depends on who falls for Audis publicity bumf. Compare current models (Mk6 to 8P S3 and the S3 looks overpriced as there is no perceived quality differenced I can find)
Better?
That's very subjective...
Fair point, but to me yes the 8P S3 is the more up market car and is better quality. I really wanted a MK5 GTI but they were still a little bit pricey and interior quality is no different to a basic Golf, just sportier seat which it think and ugly, oh and they are sooooo common, I think I see less Feista's than GTI When you sit in a 8P S3 it just feels a lot better, classy car, to me it is a more up market car than a MK5 GTI.

 

[warren_S5]

I originally went out to buy an R32 Mk5 Golf and when I looked at it and reflected it just didn't look right. I preferred the look of the Mk4.

I test drove the M5 GTi and R32 back to back and the R32 sounded great but just didn't deliver against it's engine note / cubic capacity. Golf GTi was the better car. I then got diverted and went off and tried an M3 CS (which incidentally if I had the brains I was born with I should have bought), and by then the S3 had surfaced. Liked the look of it in the magazine so put a deposit down hoping for a ballistic little rocket ship.

When it came it was slow, a bit numb, but there was some potential there so we kept it. The one thing I always maintain after S3 ownership is that the cabin is so great moving on to anything less would be tough. It's a million miles ahead of the equivalent VW interior of the same age.

The badge I couldn't give a shiney shyte about to be honest. They are all Skoda/SEAT/VW/Audi underneath. If anything I still spend more time on a SEAT site contributing there as I don't ever feel the need to dickswing about the perceived greatness of the car I drive (more often the lack of it!).

Back on thread I tend to find that if you batter another car performance wise that you'd expect it to be a closer match they REALLY aren't trying. Likewise if you think you are going to batter another car that might have a few BHP more or less then its just dellusion!

 

[Ess_Three]

Fair point, but to me yes the 8P S3 is the more up market car and is better quality. I really wanted a MK5 GTI but they were still a little bit pricey and interior quality is no different to a basic Golf, just sportier seat which it think and ugly, oh and they are sooooo common, I think I see less Feista's than GTI When you sit in a 8P S3 it just feels a lot better, classy car, to me it is a more up market car than a MK5 GTI.

So what are you comparing, an 8L or an 8P?
I'm confused now.

Maybe GTIs are common for a reason? Maybe it's because they are actually pretty good...and maybe to people like me, having fun it it rates higher than a lovely interior.

I want a lovely interior in my living room.
Not in my car. i'm not bothered.

In my car I want comfortable seats, pedals in the right place, a decent steering wheel, decent weighted controls and something that's a hoot to drive.
Illuminated air vents, faux alloy vents and a snobbish image do not do it for me.
The seats could be covered in old sacks for all I care when i'm out for a proper blast.

The final nail in my S3's existance was the realisation that a standard Mk5 GTI was better to drive than the 8L S3 I'd spent £30k on and another £10k modifying...

Hey, each to their own though...

 

[Ess_Three]

I originally went out to buy an R32 Mk5 Golf and when I looked at it and reflected it just didn't look right. I preferred the look of the Mk4.

I test drove the M5 GTi and R32 back to back and the R32 sounded great but just didn't deliver against it's engine note / cubic capacity. Golf GTi was the better car.

I thought the same...no need for an R32.

I then got diverted and went off and tried an M3 CS (which incidentally if I had the brains I was born with I should have bought),

That's a fine car.

and by then the S3 had surfaced. Liked the look of it in the magazine so put a deposit down hoping for a ballistic little rocket ship.

When it came it was slow, a bit numb, but there was some potential there so we kept it. The one thing I always maintain after S3 ownership is that the cabin is so great moving on to anything less would be tough. It's a million miles ahead of the equivalent VW interior of the same age.

It's a million miles above most things at any price, if we are honest.
I know I dropped from S3 opulence to basic plasicy blandness with the 996 (hell, it has an early pre-facelift A3 air-con unit!)...but when you are driving it, the interior doesn't matter.

Back on thread I tend to find that if you batter another car performance wise that you'd expect it to be a closer match they REALLY aren't trying. Likewise if you think you are going to batter another car that might have a few BHP more or less then its just dellusion!

So true...

 

[warren_S5]

It's a million miles above most things at any price, if we are honest.
I know I dropped from S3 opulence to basic plasicy blandness with the 996 (hell, it has an early pre-facelift A3 air-con unit!)...but when you are driving it, the interior doesn't matter.

I know £33k these days isn't mega money for a car, but to me I expect a car to look nice inside at £33k!!! There is no longer any excuse for bad design in a world of CAD and design agencies.

My wife has a company car and we 'share' the S3 for personal use to save having another car. As she works in the design field she chooses from the car wish-list based on looks/design criteria, and I try and compromise that with something that has a strong element of performance.

The only real compromise is that as we both drive it I have to feel 100% comfortable that the car won't spit my wife into a ditch due to its unruly nature (a bit like my FWD 300bhp Stage 2 Leon tried to a couple of winters back). Haldex is safe enough in the hands of any amateur even with 300bhp+ so I no longer have to live in fear every time she takes the car out in adverse conditions!

 

[Ess_Three]

I know £33k these days isn't mega money for a car, but to me I expect a car to look nice inside at £33k!!! There is no longer any excuse for bad design in a world of CAD and design agencies.

Don't you think though, design is either style led, or engineering led.

Poor design, full stop, is unacceptable.

But you may find an interior that looks stunning, but the feel of the pedals, the seating position, the feedback through the steering and pedals is just not there...but it looks great.

Or you find the opposite...almost as if it's part of you to interact with...but bland to look at.

Form over function?
Or function over form?

I don't suppose there's a right or wrong...just different opinions.
Depends what you want from a car...
At £33k (or even £23k for a Golf GTI) the ability to make me smile and giggle when tearing round like my **** is on fire is worth at least as much as how good the interior looks.

 

[warren_S5]

Don't you think though, design is either style led, or engineering led.

Poor design, full stop, is unacceptable.

But you may find an interior that looks stunning, but the feel of the pedals, the seating position, the feedback through the steering and pedals is just not there...but it looks great.

Or you find the opposite...almost as if it's part of you to interact with...but bland to look at.

Form over function?
Or function over form?

I don't suppose there's a right or wrong...just different opinions.
Depends what you want from a car...
At £33k (or even £23k for a Golf GTI) the ability to make me smile and giggle when tearing round like my **** is on fire is worth at least as much as how good the interior looks.

It's an interesting point about design concept because as much as I find the Audi interior a thing of beauty it isn't that well conceived from a user perspective. The heater controls for the temperature are awful to use, and the vent trims are plain tacky / horrible. I don't find the MFA that intuitive, and actually now I think about it the cars I have seen with the standard wheel (the round one) don't look half as trick. For me the driving position is perfect as I literally lay down and have the steering wheel at full extension (to move my weight back towards the back axle, and low to lower center of gravity). Also it's one of the few cars where their is space to put my foot out.

I haven't driven a VAG car since my Mk1/2 Golfs that have truly stirred my soul. As good as the Mk5 GTi is, particulalry in Ed30 spec (and better than the S3 in most respects), I'm still hankering after an M3.

This is the car I got when I past my test (some 16 years ago), and I wish I still had it tucked away somewhere today (maybe with a slightly bigger engine and brakes!). Worn, weary and crude, but my god what fun I had!

 

[S3 Nattie]

Function over form, form over function. I would say somewhere in the middle is the best. Yes the important controls of a real drivers car should be more function of form, but it is nice to be inside a welcoming interior. Im not saying full of the latest gadgets etc but a nice well designed interior. A 911 is exactly what I would say is a compromise of them both. Important stuff, is bang on (steering feel, seating positioning, pedal feel, visibility etc) but the not so important stuff within a proper drivers car also have some attention to detail (material / textures, mat,etc). At the end of the day manufacturers design their cars for the customers needs which theses day includes quite a lot. Most people want a every day car for the week and they want that same car to be a thrill on the weekend. Not many manufacturers car do both great.

 

[ianysm]

I then got diverted and went off and tried an M3 CS (which incidentally if I had the brains I was born with I should have bought),

I'm still hankering after an M3.

Get one!

I can recommend them!! Had mine for 4 years and loved it. House, Fiance(e), Horse, Horse trailer and end of warranty forced me to sell. Plus i fancied something different!

I do think the E46 is starting to look dated now the E92 etc is out though. Hmm, V8!

 

[Ess_Three]

It's an interesting point about design concept because as much as I find the Audi interior a thing of beauty it isn't that well conceived from a user perspective. The heater controls for the temperature are awful to use, and the vent trims are plain tacky / horrible. I don't find the MFA that intuitive, and actually now I think about it the cars I have seen with the standard wheel (the round one) don't look half as trick. For me the driving position is perfect as I literally lay down and have the steering wheel at full extension (to move my weight back towards the back axle, and low to lower center of gravity). Also it's one of the few cars where their is space to put my foot out.

Comparing to my 996...
My S3 was a wonderful place to be...looked great, solid, high quality etc...but the pedals had no feel & the steering was wooden. But it seemed comfortable.

The 996 has lots of leather and lots of cheap plastics to set them off nicely. The sunroof trim rattles, the indicators look like they came of a mid 80s Lada, the Air-Con control is a mid-90s Audi cast off...the steering wheel looks plain and the seats look boring.
In actual fact the seats are more comfortable than the Recaros in the S3, everything is perfectly placed and works...and when you press on and get really involved in driving the car, none of the low rent interior matters...you don't have the time to notice!

I know which I'd rather look at, interior wise.
Then again, I know which I'd rather use for driving hard.

Odd that zee Germans can't find a balance of both.

I haven't driven a VAG car since my Mk1/2 Golfs that have truly stirred my soul. As good as the Mk5 GTi is, particulalry in Ed30 spec (and better than the S3 in most respects),

Lupo GTI. Awesome...a modern day Mk1 GTI...giggles and laughs galore. They are epic fun.

I'm still hankering after an M3.

I hear you!

This is the car I got when I past my test (some 16 years ago), and I wish I still had it tucked away somewhere today (maybe with a slightly bigger engine and brakes!). Worn, weary and crude, but my god what fun I had!

Nice!

Worn, weary and crude, but my god what fun I had!

The reason I still have my 16 year old Mk3 16v in the garage...
It's not fast, especially well built or magical...just a bit old, creaky and crude...but it makes me laugh out loud when hooning about in it.

 

[warren_S5]

Lupo GTI. Awesome...a modern day Mk1 GTI...giggles and laughs galore. They are epic fun.
.

Wifes old Lupo was a hoot!! Would still consider another Lupo if I could have a 1.8T conversion

 

[Ess_Three]

Wifes old Lupo was a hoot!! Would still consider another Lupo if I could have a 1.8T conversion

Now that's what i'm talking about!
What a great little car!

Especially in the GTI, 6 speed form...great gearbox, sweet engine...and just enough power to play loony-toons!

 

[warren_S5]

Now that's what i'm talking about!
What a great little car!

Especially in the GTI, 6 speed form...great gearbox, sweet engine...and just enough power to play loony-toons!

I ruined the handling on it by putting H&R coilies on it and even when softened up it was still too hard. The short wheelbase on our country roads with the HR's meant it used to skirt over bumps, and in bad weather there were plenty of brown pant moments. Didn't ride the road.

I quite fancy a 996 but would be scared to death of the running costs. Where do you get yours serviced?

 

[Ess_Three]

I ruined the handling on it by putting H&R coilies on it and even when softened up it was still too hard. The short wheelbase on our country roads with the HR's meant it used to skirt over bumps, and in bad weather there were plenty of brown pant moments. Didn't ride the road.

Ahh...
I fitted Koni coilovers and they were perfect. Better than standard.
Short wheelbase was always an issue though, as you say...you had to be quick with a half turn of lock if it skipped.

I quite fancy a 996 but would be scared to death of the running costs. Where do you get yours serviced?

Aberdeen OPC look after mine.

Running costs are less than / comparable to my S3.
That's a whole different conversation...don't get me started on S3 running costs!
Tyres, brakes, fuel all comparable to my S3 with me driving...servicing comparable over a 4 year cycle...the 996 doesn't eat bushes, ARB drop links or track rod ends like S3s do, which is nice.

But, I have an extended Porsche warranty (£1350 PA now!)...which stops any expensive bills.
And there would have been a few!

 

[warren_S5]

Ahh...
Aberdeen OPC look after mine.

Running costs are less than / comparable to my S3.
That's a whole different conversation...don't get me started on S3 running costs!
Tyres, brakes, fuel all comparable to my S3 with me driving...servicing comparable over a 4 year cycle...the 996 doesn't eat bushes, ARB drop links or track rod ends like S3s do, which is nice.

But, I have an extended Porsche warranty (£1350 PA now!)...which stops any expensive bills.
And there would have been a few!

Interesting to hear as I have always been worried by S3 running costs out of warranty. With the new rear diff / clutch / DMF / seat / dampers / MAF's we've had under warranty I would be verging bankruptcy if I'd been paying out for this. At least the 996 I could afford to add to our next shortlist if I can source a good independent in the South.

 

[Ess_Three]

If you have a good Indy near you, you are laughing. I don't, so I stick to the main dealers. Luckily Aberdeen seen pretty good.
I only have 5 more years of that option though...at 10 years old you can't buy a Porsche approved warranty...so I'll have to start saving and change before then.

My S3 was expensive to run...and I know it was modified and I drove it hard, but: in 3 1/2 years and 13500 miles (when I sold it) it had used 3 sets of tyres (1 x 17s and 2 x 18s...all road miles), 3 sets of brakes (std, EBC Geen pads on EBC discs, and the Brembos were past their best), failed it's 1st MOT on a track rod end and 3 x suspension bushes and given around 25-26 MPG.

The 996 at 3 1/2 years and 13500 miles has had a pair of rear tyres (suffered after 18 laps of the 'ring) and a full set of discs and pads all round. I get about 23-25 MPG out of that now it's loosened up.
I'll probably need tyres at the end of this year (at 5 years old) and it'll be fronts and rears...so not cheap at around £800 a set....and I don't treat it with kid gloves as anyone watching the Sprint at GTI Int'l will confirm.

Servicing is reasonably comparable over the 3 1/2 years...slightly dearer for the 996 if you go to 4 years and include the 'big' 4 yearly service.


I've had plenty fixed under warranty though...and simply would not have one without.
£16k for a new engine if it lets go? (it does happen)
£10k for a new gearbox?
£1350 PA seems cheap insurance for a proper, no quibble, bumper to bumper warranty, in my book.

996s go wrong...but what doesn't nowadays?

 

[Ess_Three]

BTW, I didn't realise you'd had so much changed under warranty.

 

[warren_S5]

I've had plenty fixed under warranty though...and simply would not have one without.
£16k for a new engine if it lets go? (it does happen)
£10k for a new gearbox?
£1350 PA seems cheap insurance for a proper, no quibble, bumper to bumper warranty, in my book.

996s go wrong...but what doesn't nowadays?

Hmmm, with the warranty that could be manageable. Appreciate the heads up as we'd been thinking of looking at a second hand Cayman S (in warranty). I'd much rather have the full fat, caffeine rich 911 as it's the real deal (and obviously I'd be less mocked and ridiculed by...well everyone!)

 

[ianysm]

911's. Now we're talking!

I wanted one before i got my M3 but a decent one was just above budget

A mate just bought a Cayman S. Cracking drive but to be fair i was disappointed in its performance, just missing that bit of bite.

 

[Ess_Three]

The Cayman is brilliant...I've borrowed a few. Utterly brilliant...is just goes where you want it, no drama, no fuss...
But, it's almost too good. You don't have to work at it.

Take a Cayman down a twisty road back to back with a 911 and you come out the other end very impressed, but unflustered.
In the 911 you work hard at getting there...learn the fact that the car does lots of 'odd' things that the Cayman doesn't do...and you get out red of face, slightly sweaty and slightly shaky!

Cayman is brilliant and rewarding...
911 is rewarding, involving and downright frightening at times...which to many (me included) sets it apart.

Just don't go for a spin in the passenger seat of a 911 with someone who pushes on a bit...it'll put you off forever! They move about like you wouldn't believe...you'll swear you are in a big accident looking for a suitable location to unfold.
Drive one...and see for yourself.

Not the fastest, not the best handling (Cayman is better)...but for involvement?
It's like its plugged straight into your nervous system. Epic!

 

[Kef9]

And I still don't buy all the snobbish crap about a 8P being more upmarket than a Mk5 or (Mk6) GTI either. I'd take the GTI and leave the poncy image Audi now have for the fools who think 4 rings on the grill in some way makes them a more upmarket person.

Im sorry mate but it is a fact that Audi is more upmarket than VW. If it wasn't then nobody would buy Audis because they would be a ripoff.

Also there is a quality difference. Anyone with a brain can see that an Audi has a better quality interior than an equivelent model VW in the same way that a VW has a better quality interior than a SEAT.

Its nothing to do with being a snob. The cars are pitched a different price points for a reason and its not all to do with the badge but the quality and cost of the components used.

 

[Ess_Three]

Im sorry mate but it is a fact that Audi is more upmarket than VW. If it wasn't then nobody would buy Audis because they would be a ripoff.

To you maybe...
Not to me.

Chintzy trim and toys I don't need don't make a car any more upmarket in my eyes...but each to their own.
I think many Audis are a rip off...and the fools that buy them a marketing mans dream...but that's my view.

Also there is a quality difference. Anyone with a brain can see that an Audi has a better quality interior than an equivelent model VW in the same way that a VW has a better quality interior than a SEAT.

Maybe you think so.
Comparing a Golf GTI interior to a A3 2.0 TFSI interior, I just don't see the Golf as a lesser place to be. Sure the Audi is classier...that's not in doubt.
But if the rest of the car isn't as good...having a good interior isn't enough to convince me it's the better car.

Its nothing to do with being a snob. The cars are pitched a different price points for a reason and its not all to do with the badge but the quality and cost of the components used.

I wish that were true...sadly, for some, it's all about the badge.
Hey, if that's their thing and it works for them...why not?

Personal choice and all that.

After all...I have a Skoda - the bottom of the VAG food chain - so what do I know?