Just driven an RS4..... Bit slow arn't they?

[Oli.]

Oh and just for a second, I forgot I was in an S3 forum, so most peoples comments are slighly biased.

Like Jonny said though, how many have actually had a good drive of both, and I don't mean an hour demo?, and how many are just quoting magazines and car shows?

Oh and an RS4 avant weighs 1710kg, not the 1800kg+ that was quoted earlier, in the thread.

Anyway I'm off to my horlicks..........

 

[Jamiekip]

Oh and an RS4 avant weighs 1710kg, not the 1800kg+ that was quoted earlier, in the thread.

1845KG for the avant was taken from Audi's website
1650KG for the saloon was taken from the Audi website too.
I'd assume it to be correct, though I do know Audi got a lecture from the ASA for historically quoting their vehicle weights without fluids.... which let's be honest is a bit mis-representitive!

 

[Oli.]

You must admit though, an extra 200kg for the avant, seems a bit extreme!

 

[voorhees]

so are you going to post a mirror thread on rs246?

Oh and just for a second, I forgot I was in an S3 forum, so most peoples comments are slighly biased.

I did pose the question early doors but to no avail.
"slightly biased" doesn't scratch the surface.

 

[edition]

Good discussion, would have to be the RS4 for me.

RS4 hmmmm

 

[klauster]

I owned a mildy tweaked S3 for 2 years, and moved to an RS4 a year ago. Completely agree with Oli's comments above

 

[S3Alex]

See! You should have bought the RS4.
That way when you get a single missfire due to VAGs iffy coilpacks you only loose 1/8th of the power...not 1/4!

No...I had an A4 and never really used the space so I went for an S3 which is compact enough,but your thinking on the coilpacks is great...anyway,I'll find out if it's coilpack,plug,injector or sticky valve this week when it goes back!

 

[WiZBiT]

If I was old and had 3 kids in tow, i'd probably need an RS4, until then i'll stick with my S3.

 

[~RS~]

Wow, that was some read... great thread though! Warts n' all.
I personally think the RS4 is a better looking, more prestigious vehicle, with more road presence and I live in London so I rarely get over 40mph! I do love the S3's (only driven the 8L- non tweaked). I have however driven many distinct marques and this is what I class the RS4 as.

Regarding the OP I'm pretty sure his observations given the mods carried out were as he points notes.

 

[Oli.]

If I was old and had 3 kids in tow, i'd probably need an RS4, until then i'll stick with my S3.

Cheers!! 35 is hardly old ..........is it?

 

[PaulAr]

Cheers!! 35 is hardly old ..........is it?

Indeed not....

 

[EssVier]

&

 

[PaulAr]

Which one is `fastest` is a different debate to which one you would rather have.

I have a tweaked S3 and love it, and yes its has real world giant killing potential.

Would probably still prefer an RS4 though.

Maybe because Im old??

 

[Ess_Three]

Which one is `fastest` is a different debate to which one you would rather have.

I have a tweaked S3 and love it, and yes its has real world giant killing potential.

Would probably still prefer an RS4 though.

Maybe because Im old??

How 'old' is your form of old, Paul?
I'm a couple of years older than Oli...and I don't think I'm old.

 

[PaulAr]

How 'old' is your form of old, Paul?
I'm a couple of years older than Oli...and I don't think I'm old.

35years Old

Not quite a Grandad yet

 

[Jamiekip]

Which one is `fastest` is a different debate to which one you would rather have.

I have a tweaked S3 and love it, and yes its has real world giant killing potential.

Would probably still prefer an RS4 though.

Maybe because Im old??

And that is where this thread went off track.... the OP was commenting on speed - simple as, but it got pulled on to "which is better - RS4 or S3?".

I think most would agree, when you've grown up a bit and maybe have some kids in tow the RS4 becomes the more compelling proposition, a bit more space, practical, but still all the performance you could want etc.

I think the S3 lot got a rough bashing in this thread. Don't mistake all us S3 owners is been overly senstive about our cars - we drive them, and we know with a few relatively straight forward tweaks their is another car within that really can hassle some far more expensive metal and more than hold it's own (I once had a a bit of fun with a new Maserati GranTurismo and he was scratching his head when he couldn't shake me ). Yes we like our cars, but we're not blinkered, we appreciate it isn't the best car in the world. But I, like most will challenge when someone simply says "it's not as good as an RS4!" based on little substantiation.

The S3 is simply a tuned A3... but let's not forget the RS4 is simply a tuned up A4 rep mobile. The engineers have the same limitations to work around on each car, but a bigger budget on the RS4.

Both are cracking cars answering different briefs and lets just imagine you were looking to buy each as a brand new car (let's not do the used price thing please!).
£34k - S3 with options and choice mod's taking it to 360bhp
£56k - RS4 with options and a Milltek (come on you would have to wouldn't you!)

That's a saving of £22k which in anyone's book has to be impressive when you start considering performance per £ ?

I have enjoyed this thread on the most part though - lot's of interesting views and opinions... :thumbsup: ohhh and I stumbled on a Red RS4 Avant for under £30k last night...... maybe when I get a bit older

 

[PaulAr]

RS4 Saloon in Misano please.

(I dont have any labradors so dont need the Estate.)

When did these go out of production?

Then again, if your in the market for a mid size monster 4 seater then the M3 would have to be worth a look too..........different debate.....

cheers
Paul

 

[markwiggy]

When did these go out of production?
cheers
Paul

Last cars were made midway through 2007 I think, although newer reg ones do keep popping up there is a 08 Avant on Auto Trader at the moment. An Audi dealer did hint to me last week that he could get his hands on a new one for me, so Audi UK must have a secret stash somewhere.
Very interesting thread by the way, especially as I am thinking of changing my S3 for a RS4 Avant, it has certailnly helped me becoming even more confused in my decision making ????? Lots of good points though, and I think Oli hit the nail on the head really,The RS4 is certainly a more special place to be and that engine is fab,you really feel the difference getting back into the S3 after the RS4, S3 sounds a little thrashy and breathless and you notice the turbo lag more.Really though it's down to the extra running costs for me, but you only live once.

Mark

 

[Ess_Three]

Both are cracking cars answering different briefs and lets just imagine you were looking to buy each as a brand new car (let's not do the used price thing please!).
£34k - S3 with options and choice mod's taking it to 360bhp
£56k - RS4 with options and a Milltek (come on you would have to wouldn't you!)

If you had £56k in your back pocket, burning an RS4 sized hole...would you even consider an S3 - tuned or otherwise?
I suspect not...

I have enjoyed this thread on the most part though - lot's of interesting views and opinions... :thumbsup: ohhh and I stumbled on a Red RS4 Avant for under £30k last night...... maybe when I get a bit older

Under £30k?
Madness...what a steal, in real terms.

 

[Ess_Three]

RS4 Saloon in Misano please.

That'd be my choice too.

Then again, if your in the market for a mid size monster 4 seater then the M3 would have to be worth a look too..........different debate.....

If you are looking at new or nearly new RS4s...then I'd not give the M3 a second look...I'd want the 3 replacing with a 5.
Now there's a bargain!
Used M5s...silly money if you look hard enough!

Who wants to run a E60 M5 5.0 V10 with 500+ @ 8200+ RPM BHP and RWD?
Er, me actually...

Around £30k now....

A different debate indeed.

 

[Jamiekip]

If you had £56k in your back pocket, burning an RS4 sized hole...would you even consider an S3 - tuned or otherwise?
I suspect not...

Yeah I would TBH.
Brand new S3 Sportback (so a little more practical then my current 3 door), but I don't have kids to worry about) and a toy of some description, maybe a second hand 996C4S, Boxster S, Cayman S or SLK55AMG to keep the better half happy (she really likes the SLK - sounds good she says!).
I don't need a big car at my stage in life right now, as appealing as the RS4 is - however RIGHT now if I had £56k in my back pocket an RS4 for me and a second hand toy would be quite appealing... however, I don't have £56k in my back burner..... saving all my money on a house purchase at the mo!

 

[PaulAr]

Who wants to run a E60 M5 5.0 V10 with 500+ @ 8200+ RPM BHP and RWD?
.

Problem for me is that Im at the thresh hold of what I want to spend running a daily driver.

The S3 is great, but it aint cheap.

400+bhp V8 and 500+bhp V10 are a scary prospect.

Cant even imagine what the fuel/serviciing bill would be for a 500bhp car
Its just a supercar with 4 doors.

Nice thought though.

 

[Ess_Three]

Problem for me is that Im at the thresh hold of what I want to spend running a daily driver.

The S3 is great, but it aint cheap.

I agree...
It's lovely to dream...but would you want to run one as your everyday car?
Not sure i'm that brave.

The S3 is affordable. Not cheap perhaps...but not daft either.

400+bhp V8 and 500+bhp V10 are a scary prospect.

Cant even imagine what the fuel/serviciing bill would be for a 500bhp car
Its just a supercar with 4 doors.

No fixed price servicing on an M5, I don't believe.
16MPG...
Imagine the service costs. Spark plug change? Ouch.
A hell of a car...but as a daily?
Too rich for me.

And there is the problem.
I'd not want to run an RS4 as a daily either, as although it's cheaper than an M5 to run, I'll wager not by much.

Nice thought though.

Very true...it's nice to dream.

 

[markwiggy]

And there is the problem.
I'd not want to run an RS4 as a daily either, as although it's cheaper than an M5 to run, I'll wager not by much.

That is the worry I have, as it will be an everyday car, although I only do 8-10k per year.

Mark

 

[HotboxDeluxe]

Running costs on the E60 M5 are absolutely ruinous apparently, and they don't mind breaking now and again either. Try 16k for a gearbox...no thanks. That's the problem with some of these hypersaloons, they make them practical like normal cars but with supercar-sized bills. The newer generation "M" and "RS" cars just seem a bit over-stressed to me and I break stuff

 

[PaulAr]

Running costs on the E60 M5 are absolutely ruinous apparently, and they don't mind breaking now and again either. Try 16k for a gearbox...no thanks. That's the problem with some of these hypersaloons, they make them practical like normal cars but with supercar-sized bills. The newer generation "M" and "RS" cars just seem a bit over-stressed to me and I break stuff

Exactamundo.:icon_thumright:

 

[PaulAr]

I'd not want to run an RS4 as a daily either, as although it's cheaper than an M5 to run, I'll wager not by much.
.

Yep.
Cant help but think that 400+bhp, 4wd, 1800kg or so and a heavy right clog wont be the most frugal of machines.

Nice, Very nice in fact, just 1 tank of V-Power too many for me I fear. And the more affordable ones will be out of warranty.....Soooo

Enter tuned S3..................

 

[HotboxDeluxe]

Yep.
Cant help but think that 400+bhp, 4wd, 1800kg or so and a heavy right clog wont be the most frugal of machines.

Nice, Very nice in fact, just 1 tank of V-Power too many for me I fear. And the more affordable ones will be out of warranty.....Soooo

Enter tuned S3..................

And it's a very realistic alternative! The problem with these top-line cars is, the manufacturers develop them for headline-grabbing figures and to be nth of a second faster than their competitors, but they cost so much more to own than "lesser" models in the range, is it really worth the extra? Especially with the high-quality modifications available these days...

Using the BMW example again (sorry) instead of a fiercely complex and thirsty M5 you can get a 550i M-sport, which looks just as good, is almost as fast, gets over 20 mpg, and is available with a conventional manual gearbox instead of the jerktronic SMG (i'm not happy with this style of gearbag at the moment, can you tell my DSG has been annoying me lately?) Will your average M5 buyer care? Hell no, they want the headline figures, the 500+ bhp, even if the car spends its whole time in central London

 

[Jamiekip]

Enter tuned S3..................

Hey, we've gone full circle, I hear they are faster than RS4's

Best thing is, with a remap I get better MPG than in standard trim

 

[DaveS3Turbo]

This thread has been so amusing. I'll cut it short for my opinion.
The S3 is fast for the money and is a fantastic car. But however there is no way the average remapped S3 circa 320HP is faster than an 420 RS4 V8. Yes I have driven as my dad owns one.

Id love to say the S3 is quicker but quite frankly it's not unless you intend on maxing out the engine to 450HP ish n which case the life of the engine is considerably reduced FACT!!!

Its the comparison of a 420HP V8 vs a Inline 4 2.0T. Yes the S3 is close and gives it a run for the money but it simpy not as quick.

Just made me laugh heheheheh. Good set of lads on here but we do talk BS sometimes lol.

David

 

[Jamiekip]

This thread has been so amusing. I'll cut it short for my opinion.
The S3 is fast for the money and is a fantastic car. But however there is no way the average remapped S3 circa 320HP is faster than an 420 RS4 V8. Yes I have driven as my dad owns one.

Id love to say the S3 is quicker but quite frankly it's not unless you intend on maxing out the engine to 450HP ish n which case the life of the engine is considerably reduced FACT!!!

Its the comparison of a 420HP V8 vs a Inline 4 2.0T. Yes the S3 is close and gives it a run for the money but it simpy not as quick.

Just made me laugh heheheheh. Good set of lads on here but we do talk BS sometimes lol.

David

But the whole topic was about a 365bhp S3

Where is the :stirring it up: icon

 

[Iggu]

there is no way the average remapped S3 circa 320HP is faster than an 420 RS4 V8.

Good set of lads on here but we do talk BS sometimes lol.

You said it mate !

 

[Oli.]

Problem for me is that Im at the thresh hold of what I want to spend running a daily driver.

The S3 is great, but it aint cheap.

400+bhp V8 and 500+bhp V10 are a scary prospect.

Cant even imagine what the fuel/serviciing bill would be for a 500bhp car
Its just a supercar with 4 doors.

Nice thought though.

Mine averages 17.4mpg, my wife uses it mostly during the week to ferry the kids about, and I USE it at the weekend - I especially enjoy blowing 'so called' sports cars away in my estate!! New front brakes going on next week - parts £800 or so!! New tyres a couple of months ago - near on a grand - OH WELL!

Am I bothered - Not at all, the RS4 is every bit as good as people say, and better, it is a special GMBH Audi 'supercar/saloon'(and that is no understatement), and feels it.

Yes it might not be as fast as a 365BHP S3, but who honestly cares, it is ten times the car in every other way, please those who are fighting the S3 corner(and remember I had a tweeked S3 before), go and borrow an RS4 for a day and the headline figures just disappear. The RS4 leaves the factory with sub 5 seconds 0-60 and mid 10 secs to 100, and thats only the start of it. Its the way it just does everything so make it so phenominal.

Oh and a tirbo'd car always feels faster due to the lag, and the S3 does have a bit of it (and no I don't want to get into the lag debate). I had great fun with my S3, especially toying with cars a lot faster, and embarissing them, frequently.

Oh and I paid under £30k for my 07 Avant......anyone want an S3 now. The cheap RS4 has come and gone now, and prices are firming up very nicely.

And I know everyone likes to fight their cars corner, but the RS4 is just so special, and this is coming from someone who deals in cars, and has personally owned 50+ cars, as well as driving most cars available.

Breath.....

 

[Jamiekip]

Yes it might not be as fast as a 365BHP S3, but who honestly cares, it is ten times the car in every other way, please those who are fighting the S3 corner(and remember I had a tweeked S3 before), go and borrow an RS4 for a day and the headline figures just disappear. The RS4 leaves the factory with sub 5 seconds 0-60 and mid 10 secs to 100, and thats only the start of it. Its the way it just does everything so make it so phenominal.

Oh and a tirbo'd car always feels faster due to the lag, and the S3 does have a bit of it (and no I don't want to get into the lag debate). I had great fun with my S3, especially toying with cars a lot faster, and embarissing them, frequently.

Oh and I paid under £30k for my 07 Avant......anyone want an S3 now. The cheap RS4 has come and gone now, and prices are firming up very nicely.

You're sure about that? 10 times the car???
I'm not doubting the RS4 is more of a car - as you say, it's engineered to be more of a car and I would like one (but given your MPG it may now be ruled out!).

I had a mates RS4 for the day, and though it was an event, the sound, the seats, etc it wasn't ten times the car. I'd love one, but I didn't get back in my car and think "AHHHH ******"
You don't need to defend the RS4 - we all know it's a great car
I'm not defending the S3 for the sake of it, thinking it is THE best car on the planet, I do think it deserves a bit more credit than it is getting. Your S3 was about as modded as mine, and trust me, the jump from our cars to the stage Toby, Decked, Iggu and JonnyC (pre big turbo) is a massive one - the mid range from the HP Fuel Pump is incredible!!!!
It may not be as much of an event, but it sure isn't far behind.

Now, when I borrowed a mates 911 turbo, that was a different feeling when I got back in to my car

 

[Oli.]

I think you need to get out and drive more cars......

 

[Jamiekip]

I think you need to get out and drive more cars......

fair enough mate I shall try, though i've not done too bad!
TBH - if I was after an estate and didn't need 4WD i'd get myself a C63AMG - I had one of those for a morning and fell in love with the engine. Appreciate the engine dominates the experience, but god it was fun!



Anyway, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the gap between the S3 in this post and an RS4 eh

 

[Ess_Three]

Now, when I borrowed a mates 911 turbo, that was a different feeling when I got back in to my car

The trouble with 911s is that they feel like nothing else...
A Marmite car...you either fall for them, or hate them.
But once you persevere with all the odd things they do, nothing comes close.

Sure many are faster (RS4!...but that's another story!) but not as entertaining.

My 911 was a real shock going to that after my 8L S3..the interior is very poor in comparison to the Audi. But does it matter? Nope...

 

[Ess_Three]

Mine averages 17.4mpg, my wife uses it mostly during the week to ferry the kids about, and I USE it at the weekend - I especially enjoy blowing 'so called' sports cars away in my estate!! New front brakes going on next week - parts £800 or so!! New tyres a couple of months ago - near on a grand - OH WELL!

Am I bothered - Not at all, the RS4 is every bit as good as people say, and better, it is a special GMBH Audi 'supercar/saloon'(and that is no understatement), and feels it.

Yes it might not be as fast as a 365BHP S3, but who honestly cares, it is ten times the car in every other way, please those who are fighting the S3 corner(and remember I had a tweeked S3 before), go and borrow an RS4 for a day and the headline figures just disappear. The RS4 leaves the factory with sub 5 seconds 0-60 and mid 10 secs to 100, and thats only the start of it. Its the way it just does everything so make it so phenominal.

I'll add a few comments to this:

I've driven a couple of RS4s and driven them hard...and although they don't feel 'that' quick, and don't feel 'that' stable under heavy braking (compared to what I'm used to) they evidently are.

ChriS3 on here has an Avant which he's lent me...
We also were both at GTI International last year covering the 400 mile journey home in convoy, and each day to the show in convoy, on the smallest backroads I could find, as well as numerous other little runs here and there...
The RS4 is quicker up the 1/4 mile (proven 2 out of 3 times) as it can be launched at 5000RPM and it just goes - it has 2 car lengths on me before I've got out of 1st.
Its as quick down a small back road (not as good under braking if you are splitting hairs, but considerably quicker out of tight corners)
It's 1800KG bulk does an impressive job of being thrown about like a hot hatch.
It's at least as quick (probably quicker at 100+ speeds) and has no evident limiter at 155.
Sure, you have to work hard at getting the absolute best from it...but when you put the effort in, what it can do is amazing. The driving we've done is at times not big or clever...really pushing on...and I know of no Haldex car that would come close on a challenging back road when you are really on the edge, loading it up on braking, cornering and accellerating.

Yet from the drivers seat...it doesn't feel fast, or very good under braking.
The RS4 is a very special car indeed.

Of course there are those that will argue, or maybe I've just not come accross a well set up S3 with big power...but what an RS4 can do shocked me.

 

[PaulAr]

Mine averages 17.4mpg, my wife uses it mostly during the week to ferry the kids about, and I USE it at the weekend - I especially enjoy blowing 'so called' sports cars away in my estate!! New front brakes going on next week - parts £800 or so!! New tyres a couple of months ago - near on a grand - OH WELL!

Exactly how I imagined.

Fcukin Brilliant to drive.
Fcukin Expensive to run.

Maybe not this year, but an RS4 remains still on the `wish list`, even though I already have a mildly tuned S3.

Reckon if you had a either tweaked S3 or an RS4 on the drive you wouldnt be crying into yopur cornflakes at the prospect of a spirited run to work in the morning.

Cheers
Paul

 

[S3Alex]

...... I do think it deserves a bit more credit than it is getting. Your S3 was about as modded as mine, and trust me, the jump from our cars to the stage Toby, Decked, Iggu and JonnyC (pre big turbo) is a massive one - the mid range from the HP Fuel Pump is incredible!!!!
......

Now then.....those are a few of the guys that led me down the path of having my S3 sorted out

I think the S3,for the money,is an excellent car,but should have been more,although that would have left Audi with a small car that was almost as fast as the next model up.

Of course,the RS4 is a better car,but it should be,given the price and the engineering,but for many of us,either from cost or size etc etc,the S3 fits the bill more closely.

Mine's not as aggressive as Jonny's or Big Alex's,and although I have enjoyed the punch of a sub 4 s to 60 car in the past,the way the roads are around here,my licence wouldn't last as long as it has....to be honest,I'm lucky when I can find a road where I can exceed 50mph legally sometimes!....but thats another topic.

Both are good cars,for their respective markets,and seemingly more reliable than some of the (BMW) opposition,both from what's been said below and what I've seen from my mates.