TDI 170 vs TDI 140

[DaiBlue]

Hi All, I'm serioulsy thinking of getting an A3 Sportback TDI 170 Sport. Clearly will have to have a good test drive, but I was wondering if it is worth the additional £900 over the 140. I previously had an '04 3dr 2.0 TDI Sport, which was pretty good but not spectacular. Obvioulsy the diesel engines have moved on quite a bit in the last few years, but any views would be really welcome. Also, would the 1.8 TFSI petrol be a decent alternative?

Thanks in advance.

 

[h5djr]

Hi All, I'm serioulsy thinking of getting an A3 Sportback TDI 170 Sport. Clearly will have to have a good test drive, but I was wondering if it is worth the additional £900 over the 140. I previously had an '04 3dr 2.0 TDI Sport, which was pretty good but not spectacular. Obvioulsy the diesel engines have moved on quite a bit in the last few years, but any views would be really welcome. Also, would the 1.8 TFSI petrol be a decent alternative?

Thanks in advance.

I have just been making the same decision but with an S-tronic gearbox. I managed to find two dealers who had demonstrators with S-tonic gearboxes, one had the 140 in a Cabriolet and the other a 170 in a Sportback. Both were Sport versions.

I had each car for a couple of hours and came to the conclusion that there was very little between them. The 140 and 170 have different turbos and this may account for the fact that the 140 seemed to a have a little more low end torque. I found I could take corners and roundabouts in tiptronic mode in 4th in the 140 that required 3rd in the 170. The 170 also had what I can only describe as a slightly more turbo/exhaust noise. Both were very enjoyable to drive. The 170 would probably been ultimately a bit quicker at the top end but I never really had chance to test that and would probably never get much chance to use the extra power.

I have the 170PD engine at the moment. My previous A3 had the 140PD and the 140PD was quite a bit more economical but the 170PD was smoother and quieter which is why I went for the 170PD at the time. Now both are much smoother and quieter with the new common-rail engines.

In the end I went for the 140 and have just placed an order for a new 140 Sportback SE with an S-tronic gearbox and loads of options.

 

[DaiBlue]

Thanks. I must admit my natural reaction was the 170 just because it's more powerful, perhaps rather than thinking about how much I'd use the extra power. Am also tempted by the s-tronic, though all my cars to date (and there have been quite a few) have been manual. How much difference does the s-tronic make to the driving experience? Has anyone compared the TDI 140 against the 1.8 TFSI?

 

[h5djr]

Thanks. I must admit my natural reaction was the 170 just because it's more powerful, perhaps rather than thinking about how much I'd use the extra power. Am also tempted by the s-tronic, though all my cars to date (and there have been quite a few) have been manual. How much difference does the s-tronic make to the driving experience? Has anyone compared the TDI 140 against the 1.8 TFSI?

You will find lots of different views on the S-tonic on the forum. Some members love it and some don't. Personally I think it's great. I had 19 cars with a manual gearboxes, including 4 A3s, before my last two A3s which have had the S-tronic. The new one I've just ordered will also have the S-tronic and I will never have another car without one. I very rarely drive with it in the fully automatic mode except perhaps in a traffic jam. I use the 'tip-tronic' mode and drive the car like a manual but with no clutch and generally using the paddles to change gear.

I drove a 1.8TFSI A3 when they were first released and before I bought my 170PD and found it quite flat, especially at lower speeds, when compared with the 140PD that I was at driving at the time.

Certainly you need to have a test drive with an S-tronic before you make up your mind and you need to drive the test car for a couple of hours or longer if possible. If the dealer is reluctant to let you have one for that long just insist on it and tell him to 'loan' you the car in the same way as the loan you a car when you take a car in for service. It's certainly worked for me with my last two test drives and they were both with dealers that I had not been to before.

 

[mister.c.]

I had a 55 plate 140bhp diesel in sport guise. It was excellent, albeit like you found it was not the quietest. When I chose my new car (got it last month) I wanted a bit of a change and fancied a petrol and went for the 2.0T - really superb engine, test drove and thought it was excellent. I missed the power delivery of a petrol car & found it much quieter than the old 140 (not that difficult!).

I couldn't get a drive in the new 1.8TFSI and deliberated for a while whether to go for it - I read a lot of +ve reviews on the 1.8TFSI - here are a couple
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsOnTheRoad/Audi-A3-1.8-TFSI-Sport/233663/
http://www.topgear.com/uk/audi/a3/road-test/1.8tfsi
In the end I went for the 2.0T as a treat to myself!

The 1.8TFSI has also been improved in the facelift A3 and now has 0-60 of 7.6 seconds & lower CO2 (155). Many on here has +ve reviews on it. I, personally, would give it serious consideration.

 

[jimbobery]

I think more importantly than the desicion to go for the 170 or 140 is to have quattro or not.
I had a non quattro 140 for a week as a courtesy car and the wheels would spin in 2nd when all the torque came on. I've got an 8L S3 and I know they're different, but not having quattro for a week made me realise how it really does get the power down. The 2.0TDI engines produce a really impressive amount of torque, seems a shame not to be able to use it in the FWD versions!

 

[h5djr]

I think more importantly than the desicion to go for the 170 or 140 is to have quattro or not.
I had a non quattro 140 for a week as a courtesy car and the wheels would spin in 2nd when all the torque came on. I've got an 8L S3 and I know they're different, but not having quattro for a week made me realise how it really does get the power down. The 2.0TDI engines produce a really impressive amount of torque, seems a shame not to be able to use it in the FWD versions!

All I can say is it must be down to your driving. I have never had wheel-spin with either my 140 or 170. Perhaps the police advanced driving instructor who taught me to drive taught me a better technique.

 

[samuelt]

i can only compare the 130 against the 170 as i have had both (curently have 170 Quattro S-line) I find the midrange/toprange of the 170 is so much better than the 130. I belive the 170 is 2 seconds faster to 60 at 7.9 and 5 seconds faster to 100 than the 140. The in gear acceleration in 5th/6th is much better as well. I do find though that when the engine is cold in town you do have to be in the correct gear my 130 (5 speed) was better at this.

If you are buying this car and will be selling it again, i would sudgest the 170 Quattro as the retention should be better.

 

[DaiBlue]

Have thought quite hard about a quattro, but I think the reduction in boot space would probably be too much, especially at it would be the main family car. 95% of the time it would be fine, but for holidays away etc. with small children, I think we would probably struggle.

Will definately get Audi to loan me one for an extended period of time, ideally overnight at the weekend. I live near Stockport, so there are 3 dealerships relatively nearby, so surely one of them will be amenable.

 

[jimbobery]

All I can say is it must be down to your driving. I have never had wheel-spin with either my 140 or 170. Perhaps the police advanced driving instructor who taught me to drive taught me a better technique.

I'm sure your advanced driving technique is far better than mine, and I should've mentioned that the week that I had the car for was just after the recent snow so the roads were wet and close to freezing, however my comment wasn't about conditions, who is a better driver , or about putting the car down, simply that the FWD 140 TDI A3 highlighted to me how much better quattro is at putting down the power and therefore it should be considered.

 

[h5djr]

I'm sure your advanced driving technique is far better than mine, and I should've mentioned that the week that I had the car for was just after the recent snow so the roads were wet and close to freezing, however my comment wasn't about conditions, who is a better driver , or about putting the car down, simply that the FWD 140 TDI A3 highlighted to me how much better quattro is at putting down the power and therefore it should be considered.

My comment was not trying to I say I was a better driver, it was made to indicate that, in my experience on a 140 or 170 TDI, quattro drive is un-necessary.

 

[APL TDi]

For £900 extra i would go for the 170. I have a 140pd which is very capable, but it runs out of puff quite quickly.
The other option of course is to get a 140 and get it mapped to 185bhp and 395nm for £250 - £400.

If I had the money my ideal a3 would be a 170 quattro with a dsg gearbox.

All you can do is test drive them both and see which one YOU like best.
At the end of the day its each to their own as buying a car is an emotional thing as well as a practical thing.

Happy hunting!

 

[EssVier]

140, then remap it!

 

[Amchlolor]

All I can say is it must be down to your driving. I have never had wheel-spin with either my 140 or 170. Perhaps the police advanced driving instructor who taught me to drive taught me a better technique.

What "better technique" did he teach you for pressing a throttle then, David?
After all, you don't have a clutch to help with your technique.

Whilst I agree quattro isn't really needed on a 140/170, I wouldn't dare claim I never got wheelspin either.
I got plenty of it, regardless of tyre brand (Conti/F1/Dunlop).
If you aren't getting wheelspin, you can only be accelerating more gently than I did, or others are now.
Wow, that 'advanced driving' really is something, isn't it....:icon_thumright:

"Today's lesson, wheelspin avoidance"
"Lesson 1 - press the throttle gently"
"Congratulations, you've passed"

 

[h5djr]

What "better technique" did he teach you for pressing a throttle then, David?
After all, you don't have a clutch to help with your technique.

Whilst I agree quattro isn't really needed on a 140/170, I wouldn't dare claim I never got wheelspin either.
I got plenty of it, regardless of tyre brand (Conti/F1/Dunlop).
If you aren't getting wheelspin, you can only be accelerating more gently than I did, or others are now.
Wow, that 'advanced driving' really is something, isn't it....:icon_thumright:

"Today's lesson, wheelspin avoidance"
"Lesson 1 - press the throttle gently"
"Congratulations, you've passed"

Perhaps that's just the point, progressive use of the throttle rather than using it like a switch.

 

[Amchlolor]

Perhaps that's just the point, progressive use of the throttle rather than using it like a switch.

So, presumably, you think others are just stamping on the throttle, like some big-eared farmhand with a rat?

 

[HotboxDeluxe]

So, presumably, you think others are just stamping on the throttle, like some big-eared farmhand with a rat?

Oi! still here you know!

I find I have to be very gentle with the throttle sometimes, ****** DSG

 

[h5djr]

So, presumably, you think others are just stamping on the throttle, like some big-eared farmhand with a rat?

Not necessarily but I CAN envoke wheelspin on my 170 if I choose to, but I don't, so it must be something to do with the way other use the throttle. We all have very similar engines,tyres etc, so I must be doing something different not to get wheel spin from either my 170 or my previous 170. Perhaps I get to where I'm going 0.5 secs later than every one else.

 

[HotboxDeluxe]

Think of everything you're missing out on by wasting all those half-seconds

 

[h5djr]

Think of everything you're missing out on by wasting all those half-seconds

I know and I'm the wrong (or is the right) side of 60 so there may not be too many half-seconds left. Still not having to go to work any more means I can spend a few more half-seconds driving my A3.

 

[HotboxDeluxe]

Still not having to go to work any more means I can spend a few more half-seconds driving my A3.

...and i probably waste more than half-a-second wheelspinning on the way to my stressful job in a not-very-interesting business! Ah well, i'm envious, but not too much, i'm not 31 till next month

 

[Amchlolor]

Still not having to go to work any more means I can spend a few more half-seconds driving my A3.

Gently.

 

[h5djr]

Gently.

and very smoooooooooooothly. No sudden jerks of acceleration or braking. No screeching or wheelspin. Just smooth quick progress. Especially using my DSG (sorry couldn't resist that one!).

Just as my policeman instructor taught me all those years. Mind you he must have been good at his job because he managed to get even me to pass both my motorcycle and then my car test first time.

 

[joshxs]

Well, I have to say I'm a quattro convert!

I'm trying also to decide on my next car, and the 140/170 TDQ is one of those on my list, the quattro option is a must have for me. I agree completely if you are sensible you can drive high torque without any dramas, however I love the grip of 4wd!

Every morning I have to turn across traffic onto a busy rural 60mph A-road, when I borrow the girlfriends car occasionally (megane dci) it scares me how easily you can break traction whilst turning/accelerating away in the wet, if you smoothly accelerate to avoid wheelspin you feel like a sitting duck!

I know I could sit there and wait for a larger gap, but after 10mins I think I would be getting rather frustrated, not to mention the other drivers behind me.....

It's also incredibly useful (satisfying) when setting off from the lights. On my way to work there is a three lane section of road, one forward lane, and two turning lanes. The single lane is nearly always congested in a morning, so consequently you get several idiots trying push in by using the wrong lane and cutting you up!

I have seen quite a few open mouths in disbelief in my rear view mirror .

 

[h5djr]

At the moment Audi only offer quattro in the A3 range on the 2.0TFSI engine with S-tronic gearbox, 2.0TDI 170 with manual or S-tronic and of course it's standard with a manual on the S3.

It's not availble with the 2.0TD 140 or the 2.0TFSI with a manual gearbox.