Ford Focus RS - S3 rival???

PNH80 said:
This is the thing isn't it... How much extra research have ford actually put into this car? If they'd developed a new 4WD linkage, slip dif etc i'd be very impressed. If however it's just another wildly overpowered front wheel drive car i can't say i'm exactly counting down the days til it's release!
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4WD and LSD'S arent the be all and end all, i think many are becoming reliant with technology. The ford engineers can make the chassis cope with the power in most weather conditions (in the wet grip will evidently suffer).

New dampers,spring rates,thicker arbs and a wider track will all play a huge part.

I have a driven an ex clio racer with an uprated engine,dta management and t/bs with around 240 bhp on road tyres, that car had no trouble putting the power down and its fully road legal. I know most of you will say that its a race car which i agree however my point is that lets no ASSUME that just because there is no diff or 4wd that it will be bad.
 
Iggu said:
I'm too hot and bothered
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the point I was trying to make is that surely its good that the car industry keeps on developing new performance cars. You could argue if no one did then cars like the S3 wouldn't exist, or would exist in a lower state of tune


However, you could of course look at another way, which you and L60N are usually trying to do :applaus:
 
Sohrob said:
4WD and LSD'S arent the be all and end all, i think many are becoming reliant with technology. The ford engineers can make the chassis cope with the power in most weather conditions (in the wet grip will evidently suffer).

New dampers,spring rates,thicker arbs and a wider track will all play a huge part.

I have a driven an ex clio racer with an uprated engine,dta management and t/bs with around 240 bhp on road tyres, that car had no trouble putting the power down and its fully road legal. I know most of you will say that its a race car which i agree however my point is that lets no ASSUME that just because there is no diff or 4wd that it will be bad.
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I didn't mean it should have 4WD just for the sake of it, i'm saying i would have loved to see Ford push things forward and make another rally inspired classic RS car like the iconic motors of the past.

Lets be honest... Look at incredible cars of the past like the cosworths, RS200, GT40 etc.....and compare that to what Ford are turning out now. Totally forgettable, run of the mill cars. I'd just like to see them make a 4WD performance car again thats all.
Even the new incarnation of the GT40 was built BADLY in Detroit.
 
bacardi said:
the point I was trying to make is that surely its good that the car industry keeps on developing new performance cars. You could argue if no one did then cars like the S3 wouldn't exist, or would exist in a lower state of tune
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Better to just make that point then - which is actually a good one.

I agree that a lack of development leads to worse cars for us all. If Audi stick with the existing front-biased quattro system for the next generation A3/S3 they will be guilty of the same sort of inertia as Ford. More guilty in fact because they can afford to invest in R&D - Ford can't.

I doubt Audi will ever abandon quattro altogether due to brand values - but they need to change it for the next generation to stay ahead of the game I think.
 
Sohrob said:
I have a driven an ex clio racer with an uprated engine,dta management and t/bs with around 240 bhp on road tyres, that car had no trouble putting the power down and its fully road legal. I know most of you will say that its a race car which i agree however my point is that lets no ASSUME that just because there is no diff or 4wd that it will be bad.
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There's a massive difference between a stripped out Clio and a family spec Focus though. Over half a ton in fact. A small car like that may be able to put all that power through the front wheels with ease, especially as most of the weight is over them, a bigger car with a longer wheel base, more weight and more power won't be able to do so as easily though.

There have been a lot of debates recently about the whole FWD vs power issues but noone can deny that it rains **** loads in the UK (whatever the figures!) and I for one don't want to sit there wheel spinning when I only give it a little bit of gas. I have been there, done that and moved on.
 
In fact you could set up a Focus (or any road car) to give excellent levels of handling and grip through the front wheels to cope will over 200bhp on a track.
But it would be hard as hell and drive like a pig our roads.
You can make it fast and comfy but it will corner like a ****** roller skate.
Both are a comprimise.
Getting a balance of the two is where the skill lies.

AUDI use 4wd is a solution to this, to very good effect IMO.


Paul
 
I think the Focus RS should be a really nice car.

As a car enthusiast I can't wait to see it in the flesh...

Pedro
 
It has all of the ingredients to be a very good car.

Still cant see a huge overlap with potential S3 buyers, regardless of the headline figures and whether its quicker and the road/track/strip.

In fact, I hope the FOCUS is an excellent car, if FORD raise the bar then the competition will have to do the same......then the enthusiast will be the winner.
 
PaulAr said:
I not sure the new RS will be a rival for the S3 at all ?
Its too different, it will be cheaper and FWD for a start.

Im sure it will be a good car and whether it is quicker on the road/track/drag strip remains to be seen. To say so is pure speculation and if is was, I still wouldnt be enough to attract me.

For the price of an S3 you can buy a faster more exiting car in an EVO/Sti but thats not the only reason you buy an S3.

I cant imagine many S3 owers trading in their S3 for one, its more likey to tempt Golf, R26, VXR, Type R drivers to spend a bit more money than S3 drivers to look to save money on the next car change.

Its an uber Focus not a cheaper S3 alternative.

cheers
Paul
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You have a very very vaild point there!
 
Iggu said:
Eh? My points are to do with FWD, RWD and 4WD. I've made no observation about market segmentation at all so this statement must be according to you rather than me.

I think my comments (and those of others in this thread) show that if Ford are aiming their cars at Audi owners they have truly lost the plot as we're just not interested ....
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Exactly thats what I have been saying. They are aimed at different markets. Does your average Audi driver want a 250bhp FWD ripping up the road torque steering here there an every where?

Audi choose to only put 200bhp through the front wheels as they are aiming for a different segment of market.

Does your average fast for/vauxhall driver want a refined 200bhp fwd car? No.

So the reason Audi choose to cap their FWD cars at 200bhp is to do with their audiance si it not? If there was demand for a 250bhp FWD A3 do you not think they would make one?

J.
 
bacardi said:
the point I was trying to make is that surely its good that the car industry keeps on developing new performance cars. You could argue if no one did then cars like the S3 wouldn't exist, or would exist in a lower state of tune


However, you could of course look at another way, which you and L60N are usually trying to do :applaus:
Click to expand...

It wasn't that long ago that the beloved Cossie (god I so wanted a white 4x4 saphire with black leather) almost put paid to the hot hatch though isn't it? didn't they blame the cossie, and a couploe of oters, as the cause for insurance premiums going from an acceptable level to being absolutley stupid!

Clarkson was quoted more than the value of the car to insure one back in the day and he must have been quite old even then...

J.
 
marriedblonde said:
Exactly thats what I have been saying. They are aimed at different markets. Does your average Audi driver want a 250bhp FWD ripping up the road torque steering here there an every where?

Audi choose to only put 200bhp through the front wheels as they are aiming for a different segment of market.

Does your average fast for/vauxhall driver want a refined 200bhp fwd car? No.

So the reason Audi choose to cap their FWD cars at 200bhp is to do with their audiance si it not? If there was demand for a 250bhp FWD A3 do you not think they would make one?

J.
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You are actually bang right. They 'could' put more power into the Golf GTI but they want to keep it relatively classy and refined in the handling department.
VAG had no issues in throwing more power into the Cupra R though did they.... Obviously due to the target market wanting more bang to the buck and drag races in supermarket carparks.
 
marriedblonde said:
It wasn't that long ago that the beloved Cossie (god I so wanted a white 4x4 saphire with black leather) almost put paid to the hot hatch though isn't it? didn't they blame the cossie, and a couploe of oters, as the cause for insurance premiums going from an acceptable level to being absolutley stupid!

Clarkson was quoted more than the value of the car to insure one back in the day and he must have been quite old even then...

J.
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Yeah ,those were the days, the days of Vecta security immobilisers and those locks that locked the gearlever in place............:)
 
Well, final details for the RS have been revealed:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/233710/

With 295bhp and 302lb/ft, even those S3 owners with generously bhp-ed factory cars or remaps will have difficulty shaking one of these off, at least in the dry.

They mention the virtual elimination of torque steer, however I still don't see it solving the issue of deploying that much power through the front wheels when it is wet....... I will also still take the less in-yer-face looks of the S3 any day of the week!

Whilst I see the RS appealing to a different type of clientele to the S3, hopefully the headline figures may encourage Audi to fit the new valve arrangement to the S3 engine to boost power and torque to a similar 'official' level, or at least give the RS3 the green light.....
 
Teejay said:
guess nobody here gets Performance VW magazine then???

couple of months ago they did a group thrash between a Golf GTi Edition 30, Seat Leon Cupra and Audi S3, all in standard guise.

The Golf was the slowest in a straight line; from start and in gear.
The Leon was marginally (and I mean 0.1 secs) slower than the S3 in a straight line.

The real shock was round a 'circuit' where the Golf was loads slower, but there was nothing between the FWD Leon with 240bhp and the 4WD S3 with 265bhp.

Their summary was that they wouldn't buy the golf, it wasn't quick enough, didn't feel nimble and was quite basic inside. The Leon was the most fun and easily as quick (in the dry), but was let down by a 'constructed on a budget' interior which was nice to look at and comfortable, but just felt like it would fall to bits over time. They said the S3 felt safe & secure and was a generally nicer place to be.
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That test was a bit of a joke IMO.. The amount of mistakes they made was untrue (saying ED30 engine was just a mapped up version of the standard GTI for a start :wacko:)..
The Golf was/and is slower than the Leon and S3 round the track, not because it isn't quick enough, but for one big main reason.. The brakes! Obviously the S3/Leon have a lot bigger brakes than the ED30's standard GTi brakes andi it does suffer on the track. Upgrade to the R32 discs and Callipers and it's a different car on track..
Would still expect a S3 to be slightly quicker in a straight line. But it is mapped differently from the start. But once both modded, the tables would be turned.. :p (once rolling of course)

As for the RS. I think it's going to be a cracker to be honest. Especially round a track! Looks will be divided no doubt, but I will be giving it a good once over at the Motor show, that's for sure..
 
:)
Vtec Abuser said:
That test was a bit of a joke IMO.. The amount of mistakes they made was untrue (saying ED30 engine was just a mapped up version of the standard GTI for a start :wacko:)..
The Golf was/and is slower than the Leon and S3 round the track, not because it isn't quick enough, but for one big main reason.. The brakes! Obviously the S3/Leon have a lot bigger brakes than the ED30's standard GTi brakes andi it does suffer on the track. Upgrade to the R32 discs and Callipers and it's a different car on track..
Would still expect a S3 to be slightly quicker in a straight line. But it is mapped differently from the start. But once both modded, the tables would be turned.. :p (once rolling of course)

As for the RS. I think it's going to be a cracker to be honest. Especially round a track! Looks will be divided no doubt, but I will be giving it a good once over at the Motor show, that's for sure..
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My 2p.

The Golf is a excellent car but the brakes are certainly its weakest point.

The group test in question was for standard cars so I cant see how it is flawed.
We all know the ED30 has a different lump to the std 200ps version but the journos incorrect write up doesnt affect the test. (although it is p!ss poor to get something that simple very wrong)

Comparing modded cars opens a whole new debate....

There hasnt been a really bad hot hatch for a long time, the market is fierce, and I would be amazed if the RS wasnt a very good car.
Its not for me though.
If I was looking for a fwd hatch I would have another Golf everytime, and just not use it on a track.....
 
New focus RS is going to be a monster with all of the obvious after market modifications 350bhp 400ft/lbs could be achievable.. Thats going to be pretty good fun!

Shame that its lime green..
 
jonnyc said:
New focus RS is going to be a monster with all of the obvious after market modifications 350bhp 400ft/lbs could be achievable.. Thats going to be pretty good fun!

Shame that its lime green..
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They are doing different colours ( the green is not confirmed yet )

p
 
phantom said:
They are doing different colours ( the green is not confirmed yet )

p
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Oooh, I took it that the Green was 'the' colour as the Mk1 Focus RS was only available in one colour..

Should be a nice car to drive, shame about the image that it has but until there 3-4 years old your not going to have them being driven round by the stereo typical young male driver..

Going to sound nice with the 5 cylinder engine too!!
 
audi upgrades
Not read all the thread.

But the RS and S3 are totally different to me at least.

S3 is a premium hot hatch, the RS will be more motorsport orientated. Generally I wouldn't of thought they will appeal to the same people. But then I read the reply above!
 
Ha ha, I might, I buy 40+ Fords a ayear, so there will be a deal to have, and if I can run it for a couple of months and loose no money then so be it!!! I wouln't buy it as a permanent car, as I usually only drive German cars
 
personally i can see the attraction, it would be the kind of car i bought on a whim ( thank god when i went to Ford in January the service was **** and didnt place my order).

Its the car on a nice day i know if i took it for a blast it would put a big smile on my face like and evo or a scooby but the rest of the week would **** me off and make me the laughing stock when meeting business associates.
 
I've always loved the old Escort Cossie and I've got to say, I'm loving the look of this one too! Looks like Ford have gone back to their old roots for this one!

Anyone got this months Top Gear mag? They've got a big article in there and apparently when they developed the chassis, they did so WITHOUT the ESP. So I'm gussing that it can handle 300 odd bhp quite nicely. Something to do with a new suspension system called 'Revoknuckle' that eliminates torque steer. I know its all words and that they shouldn't be taken for granted but I think it'll be a cracking little car for £25K. There's no solid times of it round the 'ring but they say 'definately below 8m30s'.

Coss
 
phantom said:
Has any reviewers actually driven it yet? ( or reviewed it in print yet )

p
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I dont think anyone has driven it yet. It'll be revealed at London's motorshow on the 22nd. So guessing we'll see what it's really like after that and not go by what Ford say. A lot of people are getting excited by it. Hopefully it wont be a let down.

Coss
 
I think Steve Sutherland is it? from Autocar has said he's driven " A car thats in pre-production round the ring , and it will blow all the rest of the hot hatches away "

It's got to be the RS or the Meg R26R

p
 
Still cant get on with those looks.

If I was going the `hardcore` route, you can get into an ex-demo EVOX for 25K and its finally a nice looking car IMO.
Seen one on the road last week and thought it looked great. Havnt driven one but there hasnt been a bad one yet so Im assuming its very good to drive. Also the service intervals has been sorted I believe.

Will be interesting to see if the rest of the manufactures follow Reno and FORD and come up with their own bonkers versions of their hot hatch.

Paul
 
Its the green thats not doing it for me at the moment, looks too Max Power.

Bit like the ST in "ASBO orange". Nice cars and I would probably have one but I cant take them seriously when they are painted orange!

In Black the RS would probably look pretty mean...
 
PaulAr said:
Still cant get on with those looks.

If I was going the `hardcore` route, you can get into an ex-demo EVOX for 25K and its finally a nice looking car IMO.
Seen one on the road last week and thought it looked great. Havnt driven one but there hasnt been a bad one yet so Im assuming its very good to drive. Also the service intervals has been sorted I believe.
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I think they chickened out with the new evo. The old one was good looking in an ugly but functional kind of way. The new one looks like it's lost it's way. IMHO of course!

J.
 
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