I disagree, if you're paying top dollar for a brand spanking new car you should be able to customise it to your needs. For example if all S3's had bucket seats, nobody with young children would be able to get one due to the lack of ISOFIX, not everyone has ipods, not everyone smokes, some people have portable GPS units etc etc. Who cares about the people buying second hand! if they don't like whats on offer work a bit harder, get a new one and get exactly what you want!
A3 - worth the money?
- Thread starter davemk
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I disagree, if you're paying top dollar for a brand spanking new car you should be able to customise it to your needs. For example if all S3's had bucket seats, nobody with young children would be able to get one due to the lack of ISOFIX, not everyone has ipods, not everyone smokes, some people have portable GPS units etc etc. Who cares about the people buying second hand! if they don't like whats on offer work a bit harder, get a new one and get exactly what you want!
Yes, but those of us who do spend 20k+ of our own money on a car want to have exactly or as near as possible to exactly what we want. Personally I don't really care about the used car market.
Not being able to find what you want is one of the disadvantages of purchasing a used car and one of the main advantages of purchasing a new car.
Why should a new car buyer put up with a a spec that some marketing guy has decided is what we want. I'm all for the purchaser having choice.
The situation you describe is the position Audi were in with the A3 when I purchased my first A3 in 1998. Thankfully they've moved forward since then.
Other manufacturers manage fine with 'fixed' spec levels (they all offer some additions, but not to the extent that Audi do).
But, then again, other manufacturers are far more generous with their standard specs....
With other manufacturers, you would often struggle to think of anything to add.
If a car comes with leather, cruise and satnav as standard, as other manufactuers offer, what the hell else can you add?
Additions just become purile and pointless.
You can say you don't care about the used market, but you'll all give high residuals as one of Audi's bonus points.
So you do care about the used market then...:icon_thumright:
If there is one thing I really hate in a car it's leather seats, so your so called standard spec would be very wrong for me for a start. Most in-car Sat/Navs are not as good as aftermarket ones. Buyer choice. Choose the items that you want and don't include the items that you don't want. Generally any standard spec will be totally wrong for some buyers.
The A3 brochure offers 4 basic trim levels, Standard, SE, Sport and S3. There is a choice of 7 alloy wheels and 71 other options.
Having just looked at the BMW website and choosing a 330d saloon, I had the option of 5 different styles of alloy wheels, 3 so called packages, visibility, media-business and media-professional and almost 90 other options to choose from. So even BMW realise that they need to allow their customers to customise their cars to suit themselves.
Of course, in each case, not all options are available to all models.
Everyone always tells us that options make no difference to the resale value of a car so why should it make any difference to us on the used car market.
i don't know why but that doesn't sound very many? they are everywhere where I live, i only do about 8 miles going into the office but must see easily 20, and the majority are sportbacks now
never seen one broken down by the side of the road yet
The fact you only do so few miles kinda means your not really likely to either!
But surely you would just put the child seat in the back of the car?
I like the idea of being able to add things to make it more yours to a certain degree. When it comes to being able to come up with millions of different variations like you can for example with the mini I think its gone too far!
You ain't half paying for this 'freedom of choice' though.
I'd rather they made the cars better spec'd in the first place, as the competition do.
I'm no huge fan of leather and OEM satnav either, but I'll ****** take them if they're standard!
Are you saying if Audi suddenly made leather standard in an A3, you'd be forced to ask not to have it???
Hear hear.
Even Mini dealers think the 'bespoke' thing is going too far.
The Aberdeen dealer was telling me they had a woman cover hers in some sort of 'footprint' stickers.
Some people need protecting from themselves!
Audi don't go this far, but I still think they go too far.
Clearly defined models, with limited options for each.
Not the option to make a base model the same as an S-line.
Lexus for example do something similar, I think they have 3 trim levels for the 3 series equiv with very few additional options
J.
J.
Yes. If they could not or would not offer me the car I wanted without leather seats I would not buy the car.
I've been in this position with Audi in the past on the 8L model. When I bought my first A3 the only A3 model you could have the 1.8T engine was the 1.8T Sport. I would have preferred normal seats to sports seats but they would not supply one. As that was the only choice I had the sports seats. If they were leather sports seats I would have walked away.
The 1.8T engine was available in other models in Germany but not in the UK. At least when the brought out the 8P they gave us the option of almost any engine and gearbox combination in all models and a lot more in the way of options.
In Audi's home market in Germany the A3 is available in a very basic form if that's what the customer wants and their option list includes many of the items that are fitted as standard to UK models. Air-con for example, is an option on all their models. BMW are similar. You see quite of lot of BMW 3-series in Germany on thin steel wheels. It's the basic reps car.
With the age of computer-controlled parts delivery to the final assembly line it makes adding all sorts of options a much more straight forward task for the manufacturers.
Maybe, but at least Audi don't think so which is all that matters.
I can still choose exactly what I want and what I don't want and long may it continue. Some items I would quite happily accept as standard providing I was not paying extra in the basic price for items that I did not want but leather seats is something I would never accept.
Well if were getting into this , if i had my way they'd be no S-Line or M-Pack available as options unless it's a Audi sport or a BMW M car!
As they know people want there model to look like a S or M car there gonna keep pumping it out!
Now thats gonna put the cat in the avery
p
As they know people want there model to look like a S or M car there gonna keep pumping it out!
Now thats gonna put the cat in the avery
p
When I bought my previous car everything I could think of came as standard. The only thing I needed as an option was Metallic. I was quite interested to see how things had moved on when I ordered the Audi. Almost everything is an added option. Personally, I'm all for choice in life. However, I do wish Audi's base model position was somewhat more advanced.
Weren't you were a little bit agitated the other day when a marketing bod at Audi deemed it appropriate to limit Xenon headlamps to the S-Line weren't you?
Personally, I like being able to choose what options I have in the car but I do think Audi are a little OTT, I've just tried to configure an A4 as a possible replacement and have given up with the poxy configurator on their website as every other page it says "Ahh, you chose the doobery whotsit, to have this you need to de select the doppleganger and select the flirkin"
I seriously doubt that a dealer would be any more clued up either
I'm with H5djr on the leather seats point. I really genuinely don't see the fuss with them, the smell of a leather in a car makes me feel nauseated. They're not very comfy, and are boiling in summer and the back seats in winter are freezing- and for all this you have to pay one hell of a premium!
I think most people spec leather as it feels more of a luxury car (again god only knows why!!)- and isn't it one of the only options that adds value to the car?
I think most people spec leather as it feels more of a luxury car (again god only knows why!!)- and isn't it one of the only options that adds value to the car?
I know the feeling! Last year, when I specced mine on the conf. it refused a satnav system come what may. Whatever I tried, it always wanted it removed. (Perhaps the web designers were trying to tell me something!) In the end I went to the local dealer who specced it for me and printed it all out. Then, I bought it from a broker.
Exactly. I want to decide if I want Xenons or not. I don't want some marketing guy deciding that, because I want to buy an SE, I cannot have Xenons.
I still waiting for a reply from Audi UK about that.
This is the fundamental point we disagree on then.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to 'save' xenons, or the option of them, to top-end models.
I don't agree that someone ordering a base model should be able to get them.
Xenons are the sort of thing that should instantly set a top-end model apart from lesser models.
PaulAr
S3 (8P)
Some sense spoken here.
I agree, TOO much chioce these days. We only think we NEED this level of personalising because its on offer.
OK, still have certain limited options avaliable (wheels/seats/colour) but more limited and better std spec cars in the first place.
AUDI are the only winners at the end of the day.
cheers
Paul
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Well if were getting into this , if i had my way they'd be no S-Line or M-Pack available as options unless it's a Audi sport or a BMW M car!
As they know people want there model to look like a S or M car there gonna keep pumping it out!
Now thats gonna put the cat in the avery
p
No, you're wrong. Some people just want a quick, classy looking car irrespective of money. I know a couple of very very wealthy people who have opted for 335 coupe's and convertibles without even giving the M3 a look, likewise i'm not personally interested in owning an S3 at all. M cars and RS models have a tendency to scream 'look at me'. Not everyone likes that you know. Less is more and all that...
I do tend to agree with you up to a point, providing they offer a top-end model than is aimed more at 'comfort' as well as one aimed at 'sports'. I want a reasonable amount of luxury and comfort rather than harder suspension and sports type seats for example, which is why the current SE suits me.
They offer two basic steams at the moment with the SE and the Sport and I think options like Xenons should be available to each stream if that's they way they want to go.
The new facelift SE will have less as standard, but all the things that are standard at the moment will be available in the options list and the price will work out about the same. So even more choices.
However I don't see Audi or BMW changing their policy in the near future. They have both perfected computer systems that can cope with virtually building a car to an individuals requirements. Each company builds cars to direct orders and that's the way I think and hope they will continue.
Why can there be TOO MUCH choice. It allows it's purchaser to have what they want. Why can that be wrong?
Yes it does mean you have to study the brochures and price lists to see what you want and what don't, but surely that's part of the fun of buying a brand new car. It certainly is to me.
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So a standard facelift SE will be cheaper?
I agree with this.
If you make the spec poor, make the car cheap.
Then let people spec up to their heart's content.
It's when they want high prices combined with poor spec that I object.
One or t'other.
I tend to agree with mitch. Re the lights, I stuck with the halogens based on my experience with those fitted to the Citroen I had previously. They were superb! Those fitted to the Audi are puny by comparison. If I were to re-order I would go for the xenons.
Maybe they do, but the point is their better spec'd cars are priced in line, or often better, than Audi's.
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By the way, on this topic of everything being an option on an Audi...I do find it nothing short of disgusting that you don't get electrically folding mirrors on a car at these prices.
My colleagues at work have a Seat Leon FR and a Golf GTDI, both costing a lot less than mine and both have electric mirrors as standard (i'm guessing all use exactly the same motor, wiring and switches).
Due to me looking for an 'almost new' car i obviously wasn't spec'ing it myself but i spent a long time hunting for the right colour, spec, everything. I found an Audi owned car which was 6 months old, the exact colour i wanted, symphony II, bose, light pack etc etc but shockingly no electric folding mirrors and no xenons. Just to clarify this car was £27K new. I was undecided about xenons so not too bothered about that but i'd still expect them on a car of that price. How a customer can spec a car at that price without electric folding mirrors (£149.00?) is beyond me. They should be standard anyway.
The car had lost about a grand a month since new so i paid about the same as the cost of a new Golf GTI. For the car overall at that price i've been very happy but christ almighty if i'd paid £27k i'd feel just a little short changed. I can't even entertain the idea of £30k or more for an S3.
As a package taking everything into account i don't think the car is overpriced....but they are expensive.
My colleagues at work have a Seat Leon FR and a Golf GTDI, both costing a lot less than mine and both have electric mirrors as standard (i'm guessing all use exactly the same motor, wiring and switches).
Due to me looking for an 'almost new' car i obviously wasn't spec'ing it myself but i spent a long time hunting for the right colour, spec, everything. I found an Audi owned car which was 6 months old, the exact colour i wanted, symphony II, bose, light pack etc etc but shockingly no electric folding mirrors and no xenons. Just to clarify this car was £27K new. I was undecided about xenons so not too bothered about that but i'd still expect them on a car of that price. How a customer can spec a car at that price without electric folding mirrors (£149.00?) is beyond me. They should be standard anyway.
The car had lost about a grand a month since new so i paid about the same as the cost of a new Golf GTI. For the car overall at that price i've been very happy but christ almighty if i'd paid £27k i'd feel just a little short changed. I can't even entertain the idea of £30k or more for an S3.
As a package taking everything into account i don't think the car is overpriced....but they are expensive.
I think part of the problem lies in the past with the original market in the UK for company cars. I don't think the same is true any more.
In the past if you were just a rep you got the basic car. If you were a more senior rep you got a better version of the same car. If you were a manager you either got an even better version of the same model or a more up market car etc. Your status in the company decided what car you would drive. Manufacturers had to provide various model to fit into these catagories.
As I said I don't think this is the case anymore. Most drivers who are offerred a company car have much more choice depending on how much tax they want to pay.
In the past if you were just a rep you got the basic car. If you were a more senior rep you got a better version of the same car. If you were a manager you either got an even better version of the same model or a more up market car etc. Your status in the company decided what car you would drive. Manufacturers had to provide various model to fit into these catagories.
As I said I don't think this is the case anymore. Most drivers who are offerred a company car have much more choice depending on how much tax they want to pay.
I can. I would never bother with them because I never use them. Why pay £149.00 for something you never use.
I do actual have them on my Sportback, but only due to an error somewhere in Audi. I ordered auto-dimming mirrors but did not order folding. When the car arrived it had folding as well. I did not pay for the folding and I have never used them.
Different people, different situations, different choices.
Not only that, but far fewer people take company cars these days. In the company I work for, for example, I would say >95% of staff (including me) take the monthly allowance and source their own car, rather than have a company car.
Everbodies circumstances and requirements are differenet but it is worth every penny to me :icon_thumright:
I didn't want them. Have never had an issue with wing mirrors being damaged. I rarely park on a street where it could be a problem. Maybe I have just been lucky, for 8 years.
Also Audi only offer folding mirrors on the S3 with auto-dimming, for £260. I didn't want auto-dimming so I didn't spec them. I know you can change the glass so they don't auto-dim but why pay for something you don't want?
You're only arguing about whether something is useful or not because you're having to pay for it.
If folding mirrors were standard, you'd just take them.
You don't have to use them.
We all seem to be singing from the same hym book, basically.
We'd all like more as standard.
Or if they don't want to give us more, make the cars cheaper.
No-one likes stingy and expensive.
(FWIW, it always bugged me that my colleague's £15k Golf came with cruise control as standard, but my £24k A3 didn't
)
If folding mirrors were standard, you'd just take them.
You don't have to use them.
We all seem to be singing from the same hym book, basically.
We'd all like more as standard.
Or if they don't want to give us more, make the cars cheaper.
No-one likes stingy and expensive.
(FWIW, it always bugged me that my colleague's £15k Golf came with cruise control as standard, but my £24k A3 didn't
)
That could well be one of the main reasons that the 'rigid' model specs have almost disappeared and we each have much more choice over what we buy. At least those who buy new. Makes it a bit more difficult for those who buy second-hand to find just what their looking for.
That's true in some cases, but if the manufacturers added all the various items on the options list they would almost certainly increase the price and we would all be paying for things we did not want. Once reason why a basic A3 is cheaper in Germany. It has far less on as standard.
PaulAr
S3 (8P)
Each to their own, but if the `look at me` factor that comes with M,S and RS models isnt your thing, then why put 19s and an aftermarket exhaust on your A3?
I dont disagree with it, but it does seem at odds with your `less is more `ethos...`
cheers
But, as I stated earlier, other manufacturers manage perfectly well with more rigid model specs.
No-one does totally rigid.
Until Ron Jeremy starts making cars...
It just seems, to me, that some people have fallen for the marketing, again.
They're looking at the bewildering array of accessories like it's a good thing, when they should really be asking why some of them aren't standard.
My Ford Mondeo cost 13.5k with 8k miles on the clock. As standard it came with:
1 - Half leather half Alcanatara seats
2 - 18" Diamond cut alloys
3 - In dash 6 cd changer with 12 speakers!
4 - Cruise control
5 - Auto lights
6 - Auto wipers
7 - Folding mirrors - quick clear
8 - Dimming rear view mirror
9 - quick clear front screen
10 - electric seats
Theres probably more i forgot to mention. But hey, my point is thats ALL standard on the titanium X model. Talk about bang for buck!
1 - Half leather half Alcanatara seats
2 - 18" Diamond cut alloys
3 - In dash 6 cd changer with 12 speakers!
4 - Cruise control
5 - Auto lights
6 - Auto wipers
7 - Folding mirrors - quick clear
8 - Dimming rear view mirror
9 - quick clear front screen
10 - electric seats
Theres probably more i forgot to mention. But hey, my point is thats ALL standard on the titanium X model. Talk about bang for buck!
