Read what I last wrote and then read your direct reply to that. It's not even relevent. I was talking hypothetically.
Whatever...
Seems to me you make flippant comments...then don't like someone pointing out inaccuracies.
Hypothetical or not.
But anyway, if you didn't have the tyre slip in the first place then you'd be able to feed in more power wouldn't you?!
That's not what I'm getting at...it's been proven time and time again by people cleverer than you and I, that the fastest acceleration is when a tyre is slipping around 5%.
Competition TC systems don't have total grip...they require some slip...F1, WRC etc...cars or bikes...some slip is required/accepted.
I don't know why...but that seems to be the way it is.
It may be to do wirth nursing the clutch/gearbox/driveshafts.
My comments were based around the requirement of a few % slip, to get the best launch. Very few cars can take a hard (clutch dropped at 5000RPM) launch and hook up perfectly - 4WD or otherwise.
If you know of one, please let me know...
Yes and when there're 4 driven wheels you can put more power down to the road (whatever the surface).
Very true.
But you have to counter this by power actually transmitted to the tarmac.
A 200 BHP 4WD car loosing 60BHP in losses (8L S3 for example) is only putting 140 BHP to the road. That 140 BHP - assuming a perfect, no tyre slip, no clutch slip launch - is actually making the car go forwards.
The rest is lost.
A 200 BHP FWD car loosing 45 BHP in losses and using TC to give 5% slip, may be using 90% of it's available 155 BHP to give good launches with a 10% reserve for slip...140 BHP!
So, you may not actually be putting any more power to the road than a FWD car...
Then it becomes swings and roundabouts...more weight, clutch torture and mechanical component failure with 4WD - but a quicker real world 0-60ft....vs lighter weight, less brutal launch of FWD.
More to do with the steering I guess. But if you want to go around a bend quicker, especially on the exit, you need to put power down, and with 4WD you can put more down.
OK...I'm being pedantic...but cornering and traction are different entities entirely....especially where wet roads are concerned.
Fast cornering - that is carring huge corner speed - is simply mechanical grip vs physics.
4WD cars don't corner any faster than FWD or RWD.
Powering out of a corner is indeed the realm of 4WD (or RWD), if you are speaking about hooking up full throttle before the apex and allowing the car to push itself through the bend - assuming the chassis is set up for it.
Sadly, in the case of most road goinfg Audis (for example) it isn't as they don't have enough mechanical grip at the front to allow the rear to push through...so the car will understeer.
With a well set up chassis...an Evo/911 etc...you will get the rear to arc out, straightening the steering angle, and powering you out with the steering wheels straight ahead.
To do this on a FWD car you need to have lots of grip (normally involving an LSD of some type) and have some form of 'rough' tactic to get the rear to pivot (lift off oversteer, for example...or trail braking)
All of my statements are generalisations. And I have admitted that the abilities of different cars vary. The basic fact is 4WD is better than FWD. If you were to take 2 identical cars and then fit the 2 different drivetrains then the 4WD would be the better. As long as it's set up properly.
You probably thing I'm just out for an argument...I'm not.
I'm merely posting an alternative view...based on slightly different thinking, reserach and lots of experience.
I don't believe it's possible to make a statement saying "The basic fact is 4WD is better than FWD. If you were to take 2 identical cars and then fit the 2 different drivetrains then the 4WD would be the better. As long as it's set up properly"
4WD may be easier for more people to drive faster...but better?
It's just not that simple.
4WD is 'better' at some things - but there are costs (weight, complexity, wear etc)
FWD can be better at others...why is an Integra Type-R a better drivers car than an 8L S3 when the S3 has 4WD and more power?
The set up is critical...I agree.
But the set up for 4WD differs vastly from that of a FWD car...that optimise them both...and you end up back at status quo. Swings and roundabouts.
I'm not suprised don't worry. But it's pretty obvious it was my own opinion rather than fact wasn't it? And my opinion comes from experience of owning both FWD and 4WD cars, and of course being a passenger. And I'm here on this forum partly to give my opinion. And I stand by what I said.
No, it wasn't...
This part:
200bhp+ is a waste of time in a FWD car
In my view cannot be stated as black and white as that.
As I said...I'm not out for an argument...but if you'd spent enough time setting up car chassis, playing with ATB/LSDs, TC/Launch Control systems, suspension geometry & settings etc you'd be amazed what is possible from an 'inferior' FWD car.
Your opinion is yours...but the facts are there...FWD is not always inferior.
It's all swings and roundabouts.