BMW Alert! New D3 coming 2008/9

[PNH80]

I'm currently torn between an S3 and the 135i, so I think they're a vaild comparison. I'd actually be interested in everyones opinions on the two if folks could be objective!

Performance and driver involvement I think the 135 is the clear winner. But I like the idea of quattro for the winter and I'd also love to drive to the alps next year, not sure that would be too clever in the Bimmer.

Looks, I think the S3 edges it, and can also be had for a fair chunk of change less (and there are used ones availible). Although the 135 is a grower and I think will age well as it looks very distinctive and a little retro.

I currently drive a Golf GTI and think maybe the S3 wouldn't be much of a change, just nicer and faster, but ultimately similar to drive...

I'd also like to use this smiley too as it's rather cool!

See this is my point...The 135 has a superb engine. Best in it's class by a mile but the styling of the car just doesn't do anything for me. The front end has that suprised / pignose look about and it doesn't get any better as you work back. I will be fair and say i have seen one in white with 19" M6 wheels and it looked quite nice.

 

[h5djr]

jesus christ,is that your conrtibution,i take it you still got the point though,even though it was poor grammer,its a forum for god sake,and they say bmw owners are snobs,im sorry,i did'nt realise i was being assessed,get a life man,realy,its not a class room either.

correct my spelluing if you feel the need,****** hell.

Perhaps you and a few others should read this post by the moderators.
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=34465

and it's not snobbish to expect members to use a reasonable standard of English. The majority of members manage it with very little problem.

 

[Sussex Lad]

It is a bit baffling how Alpina/BMW can produce these powerful diesel engines that come into reasonable tax brackets & do decent MPG. I'm not saying I'm going to chop my Audi in for one (I like the interior and exterior styling of Audis over BMWs too much at the moment) but Audi need catch up a bit with their diesel engines.

BMW manipulate CO2 with Stop start technology. Audi will no doubt have to think about it. Having driven one I think they are badly finished and lack the overall benefits of owning an Audi. So Crap really.

 

[warren_S5]

I'm currently torn between an S3 and the 135i, so I think they're a vaild comparison. I'd actually be interested in everyones opinions on the two if folks could be objective!

I shelled out for the S3 instead of an M3 CS, and although I'm not the world's biggest fan of BMW's I do regret it now. A mate bought the M3, and I would say his car is faster, more rewarding to drive, better engineered, more reliable, and in my mind the 135i must be pretty similar to the old M3.

The S3 is a touch bland. I hate the OE wheels, and was deeply disappointed when the RS4 wheels weren't offered in the UK (particulalry as 19's). Also the Audi dealerships go into convulsion as soon as they see anything as much as a filter or DV which is not OE. They'd be tempted to void your warranty if you used a non Audi air freshener which for a manufacturer of 'high performance automobiles' is just tedious and contradictory to the image they are trying to sell. Also to be fair, I don't find the service that 'premium', but since the Company car market has been big on the major marques in some cases they can afford to treat Joe Public like a disposable sale.

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice car, and a great place to sit. I actually quite like her for all my bitching, but the old girl will never win any design awards. Its understated and competent. If you're a really spirited driver I think you get more out of a BMW over time as they tend to reward a driver as they improve their skills. I tend to find an Audi can make an idiot drive competently, but there is less growth room in it. I thought I would hate the quattro system but the latest generations seem incredibly good. For the damp conditions we suffer it makes putting your power down quite effortless, and the S3 really benefits from this. I bought the S3 without having seen one in the flesh, and it was a brave move. If you really love driving it should almost be as much about the way it drives as the way it looks. Beauty is only skin deep, its the engineering that makes the car.

I'll certainly be considering the 335d next, but for some childlike reason I have an urge to want to check out the 272bhp 4wd R version of the new Scirocco but with VW's new concept platform / suspension. Its got a wider track and tunable suspension, but so far its all hot air and no evidence so I'm not holding my breath. For the record I think the D3 is a decent car, and quite a lot of car for the money.

 

[newbiecrg]

Well I must say I like my S3 and it is what I expected, competent, understated, fast and safe car..

Having said that and after 10k miles I find it a bit boring and unexciting... but maybe it is a feeling you have when you get used to it... Drove a Subaru Impreza UK300 and although it wasn't that much quicker compared to S3 it sure felt much more exciting...

Like many here... love my S3 but starting to look for excuses to trade it for another one... bored about it..

Pedro

 

[PNH80]

To be honest, this is quite simply a trait of German 4WD performance cars. They are understated and they don't have any raw sporty edge to them like Jap cars for example. Some people love that classy approach to performance cars, others find it boring. I have a mate with a Tommy Makkinnen Mitsi Evo with all the trimmings. He considers M-series beamers, RS audi's etc safe and boring performance cars for people who aren't brave enough to buy a 'real' one. I disagree, i think they're cars which are genuine performance cars but which you can still drive while wearing a suit....and not look a complete tw*t.
Going back to the point about the S3 being too predictable and 'safe'...this is a fault people aim at all 4WD german performance cars. Even the R8 is faulted by some for being too predictable and sure footed, not enough scary moments like with a rear wheel drive carrera. The same is said of the Lambo Gallardo....Just too predictable compared to a Ferrari F430 due to it's 4WD and ESP trickery.

If you want a thrill a minute and those heart stopping moments of regaining control of the rear end as you power slide out of a corner... a 4wd Audi just isn't the right car for you. If you want to feel in control at all times and know exactly where the car is going to go with perfectly measured and delivered power....Then it is.

 

[newbiecrg]

Yes, 100% agreed! And I ordered my S3 precisely because "you can wear it with a suit..." no regrets here... but sometimes I just wonder if a M3 would resist a bit more before becoming boring...

My only little issue with the S3 is that it is so "Audi perfect" that I no longer feel excited when I drive it, that is all... it was fun and great for 8 months... but now I am not excited about it... although I still like it. Maybe it is because it is winter and I have been doing lots of motorway mileage which is fast driving but really really boring...

I just need to race my kart more often... poor child being ignored at the moment...lololol

Pedro

 

[L60N]

Oh crap, i've bought the wrong car!!:Flush:

 

[newbiecrg]

Lololol..... no worries mate... I am pretty sure you are a normal guy not a "freak" like me and you will enjoy the S3 more and more as time passes by...

Pedro

 

[Ess_Three]

Well I must say I like my S3 and it is what I expected, competent, understated, fast and safe car..

Having said that and after 10k miles I find it a bit boring and unexciting... but maybe it is a feeling you have when you get used to it... Drove a Subaru Impreza UK300 and although it wasn't that much quicker compared to S3 it sure felt much more exciting...

Like many here... love my S3 but starting to look for excuses to trade it for another one... bored about it..

Pedro

I think this is Audi all over...not that it's always a bad thing.

My 8L was well modified and would lap Knockhill faster than Evos/STIs...was a match for them on the road...and was very quick and competent. You could drive from A to B faster than you thought possible, and certaintly faster than the noise/feeling inside the car would have you believe.

But...it was boring.
It didn't excite.

I find a similar thing in all the A3s I've driven..capable enough...just unexciting - or dare I say dull?

...and to me, the more you drive...the more you get used to it...the duller it gets. No less capable...just less exciting.

That's not always a bad thing mind...but it can be.

 

[newbiecrg]

You could drive from A to B faster than you thought possible, and certaintly faster than the noise/feeling inside the car would have you believe.

But...it was boring.
It didn't excite.

I find a similar thing in all the A3s I've driven..capable enough...just unexciting - or dare I say dull?

...and to me, the more you drive...the more you get used to it...the duller it gets. No less capable...just less exciting.

Spot on!!!!!!!

How long did it took you to get bored? I am bored and it is not even a year...

Pedro

 

[Amchlolor]

My 8L was well modified and would lap Knockhill faster than Evos/STIs

What sort of lap times do road cars do around Knockhill?

 

[Ess_Three]

What sort of lap times do road cars do around Knockhill?

VR6 Golf about 65-70 seconds
My S3, 62 seconds in the damp/wet.
A few seconds shy of the bikes...57 seconds is newrer the bikes I think.

 

[Ess_Three]

Spot on!!!!!!!

How long did it took you to get bored? I am bored and it is not even a year...

Pedro

I changed all the suspension as I went....but after spring/damper, tie-bars, ARBs and messing with geometry, tyre type (and size) and tyre pressures...I finally got a good set up. That took 18-20 months from new.
That set up lasted about 6 months before I was bored again.

Bearing in mind the 8P S3 is WAY better than the 8L as standard..I'd have thought a year was about right Pedro.

 

[Amchlolor]

VR6 Golf about 65-70 seconds
My S3, 62 seconds in the damp/wet.
A few seconds shy of the bikes...57 seconds is newrer the bikes I think.

Aye, I can do 57-58 seconds all day, on a standard 600cc road bike.
62 seconds in the wet isn't hanging around though, that would easily beat some bikes.
I don't enjoy Knockhill in the wet.
It just becomes a buttock clenching exercise, rather than fun.

 

[newbiecrg]

yeah... and I thought I was being funny!

for it is just a shame that some other manufacturers don't have a nice interior trim like Audi... in the hothatch department, I think the S3 interior is the best... fun factor is not long lastig though... never mind!

Will trade it when I can, for what I do not know... maybe a boring diesel if I need it or if I am in a "high" day a M3... God knows...

Pedro

 

[klauster]

I got bored of mine in a year, after suspension and a remap. S3 is a great car, and I dont have any regrets mind...

I wonder how long the RS4 will last...

 

[warren_S5]

I was at the Castle Combe Audi Driver International day in 2007 with my mate from work, and we went out on the track behind an R8. I did my best to keep it in sight, and he shouted across to me "are you going to give it some" when I was absolutely flat out. He looked at the speedo and shouted "I had no idea we were going that fast!", and to be honest it felt about 80mph! I was doing quite a bit more than that but somehow they manage to over engineer the sensation of driving to such a point that you don't even realise when your gunning it.

The crux of the matter is this, I can only afford 1 car. That one car has to do everything. It has to:

1) ferry me and the wife about in some kind of reliable safety and comfort
2) allow us to cart people about on the odd occasion
3) look sensible enough that people don't think I'm a hooning tit
4) be able to transfer decent power safely on the road all year round
5) make me look respectable when I turn up at a clients offices
6) not draw too much attention to itself for thieves
7) I don't have to trade body parts to cover running costs
8) it must sustain a decent resale value
9) I must be able to live with it day in, day out
10) I must look like I'm having a midlife crisis

The S3 seems to cover most of those bases pretty well. I did consider an Evo, but a mate who had an Evo VI TME was pouring petrol down its neck and pouring cash into the dealers pocket every 4.5k miles. It looked pretty knackering to drive too.

I need something cheap but mental for the weekends (like a stripped out roll caged Golf Mk2 Rallye G60 with a Vortex supercharger conversion), and the S3 for during the week when I want hassle free motoring. I'd love something more exotic for track daying but really can't afford it.

Euro regs probably iron a lot of the creases out of modern motors. They're no longer light footed driving instruments but polished wafting 2 ton cruisers. My first Mk1 Golf GTi felt like it was going 1000 mph when it was doing 100. You really felt part of the process driving it. That said I'm soft, organic and aged now so I'd probably hate it for all the reasons I used to love it back then.

 

[PNH80]

yeah... and I thought I was being funny!

for it is just a shame that some other manufacturers don't have a nice interior trim like Audi... in the hothatch department, I think the S3 interior is the best... fun factor is not long lastig though... never mind!

Will trade it when I can, for what I do not know... maybe a boring diesel if I need it or if I am in a "high" day a M3... God knows...

Pedro

Come on now Pedro...You're bored of your S3 and yet you might consider a diesel as a part ex?! I think an M3 would get boring just as quick. Have you considered maybe a boring diesel for commuting and something like a Lotus Elise for the weekend? You can pick those things up at a great price now...And they are practically a go-kart.

 

[newbiecrg]

I know... been thinking about that actually... I know I would be bored after a while with the diesel..... The Lotus Exige is probably a nice car...

But let see... I am going back to UK and take my S3 with me, so maybe starting doing the odd track day and get a bit more excited about it...

Not modding it as not worth spending pounds if you are going to sell it next year or so....

Pedro

In the end is just a car.... more important things in life..

 

[PNH80]

Absolutely BUT i've just had a look and for a track day car and weekend blast around you can get a decent Elise to mod-up for less than 10K....I'd love one!

Also, have you considered a Westfield?? Seriously those things are frightening, there's no more involving car on the planet....and they're CHEAP. Can't go wrong!!

 

[julians]

The S3 is just a tool to do a functional job, its not an exciting car in the slightest, I was under no illusion when I bought it a couple of months ago, but I do like it and will probably keep it a long time (5 years+), because it does the job its meant to do very well.

The other car I was considering instead of the S3 was a BMW Z4M coupe, probably a much more exciting car than the S3, but you pay for that excitement, in terms of higher servicing, higher insurance, higher road tax (band G), less practicallity, higher fuel costs , higher depreciation etc etc, the list goes on.

So I decided to go for the s3, does everything I need, well nearly everything, I wish it had a sharper turn in. I have a caterham 7 for when I need exciting.

 

[newbiecrg]

I also considered a Caterham.... now that would keep me smilling.... maybe this is a karting thing... but when I race my little 32hp kart it is just a great feeling... somehow my S3 does not even come close even being faster and a lot more powerfull..
I think is feeling that edge that gives you the adrenaline rush...

Pedro

 

[julians]

but then the problem with a caterham (or any other similar car), is that they are so focussed that they are only fun in the tiniest number of situations, when its warm, the roads are dry, there is no traffic, and the road is twisty, they are brilliant. But if one of those condition is not true then they are just uncomfortable,noisy and hard to drive.

Having said that I've had my caterham for 8 years now, and I dont think I'll ever sell it (unless I need the money), because when the conditions are right , its brilliant.

 

[newbiecrg]

thing is I do not have a garage in UK so no joy to have either my karting or a toy car...

Pedro

 

[newbiecrg]

lucky you julians.... a caterham... you only need to drive it properly probably once a month to top up the excitment....

Pedro